Anyone else feel like the next gen consoles should have launched with more racing games?

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Kannon33r
I'm pretty sure all 3 games that you mentioned were some of the best selling games for their respective consoles.
Motorsport and Motorstorm, not Driveclub. They couldn't sell great because of low playerbase, but at same time couldnt be a flop because of lack of competition. Problem is next games were waaay better and doesn't get enough attention. I think, FM5 released instead and in form of FM6 could beat 10 million mark(I think, we will see this with Motorsport 8).

There are also a growing number of people recognising Driveclub as an arcade racing masterpiece.
Driveclub was a flop because of PS+ version announced before release and bunch of technical issues that delay release of PS+ version. Than, Sony, for whatever reason, decided that its Ok to sell only studio that can produce exclusive arcade racers for platform. If you ask me, Driveclub wasn't all that great - too much cars on narrow roads, strange throttle/brake controls and 30fps. But with one more year in development and with decent marketing it could became great game and at some point became Sony's FH.
 
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So, I am totally ok with BC and crossgen titles at start

I mean, good for you, but that doesn't change the facts. You claimed it had the biggest line-up in history which was completely disingenuous when you were talking about BC.
 
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Motorsport and Motorstorm, not Driveclub. They couldn't sell great because of low playerbase, but at same time couldnt be a flop because of lack of competition. Problem is next games were waaay better and doesn't get enough attention. I think, FM5 released instead and in form of FM6 could beat 5 million mark(I think, we will see this with Motorsport 8).


Driveclub was a flop because of PS+ version announced before release and bunch of technical issues that delay release of PS+ version. Than, Sony, for whatever reason, decided that its Ok to sell only studio that can produce exclusive arcade racers for platform. If you ask me, Driveclub wasn't all that great - too much cars on narrow roads, strange throttle/brake controls and 30fps. But with one more year in development and with decent marketing it could became great game and at some point became Sony's FH.
Driveclub was not a flop. According to Wikipedia it is the 24th best selling PS4 game with over 2 million sales. Plus this:

https://www.gtplanet.net/the-most-played-ps4-driving-title-is-driveclub/
 
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Kannon33r
According to Wikipedia it is the 24th best selling PS4 game with over 2 million sales
First of all, its 40$ title, so 2/3 of regular AAA game price. Second, its less then half of FM5 and FM6 player count, 2/3 of Motorstorm sales(which was PS3 release title). Third, Evolution was closed.
 
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First of all, its 40$ title, so 2/3 of regular AAA game price. Second, its less then half of FM5 and FM6 player count, 2/3 of Motorstorm sales(which was PS3 release title). Third, Evolution was closed.
I think there is more to the story regarding the Evolution closure. I'm suspicious that it was shafted in order to elevate GT Sport.

I do get your point that one good game is better than 2 mediocre ones, particularly in an established franchise, but I would prefer more different racing games from different studios that test what the new consoles can do.
 

TS050

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ask
I think there is more to the story regarding the Evolution closure. I'm suspicious that it was shafted in order to elevate GT Sport.

Man, I love the “Evo was a threat to PD so they had to shut them down” narrative. Really makes a lot of sense
 
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Kannon33r
I think there is more to the story regarding the Evolution closure. I'm suspicious that it was shafted in order to elevate GT Sport.
I could get that they drop Driveclub support because of competition with GTS, but Evo could build another Motorstorm which they kinda did as part of Codemasters. :banghead:

you couldn’t be more wrong if you tried
IDK, maybe I just didn't get it. Played it for few hours on friends account with like 70% completed. Not impressed at all. I am in general hate how Sony managed triggers for Dualshock 4 and upscaling on 4K TV was awfull.
 

LeGeNd-1

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Racing games in general aren't as popular as they used to be. The arcade racing genre is just a caricature of its former self now, and all the good sims are best played on PC (and they normally have very long shelf lives due to constant updates). In addition, it's also quite expensive to produce a good racing game with proper licensed cars/tracks, and unless you're GT/FM/NFS it's unlikely that you have the brand power to rake in the sales to offset development costs. So that just leaves us with the yearly motorsport titles (F1, WRC, NASCAR), which unless you're a big fan of the series, isn't really a must have purchase.

It is what it is. Personally, a good racing sim can last me many many years (even more with mods). Occasionally I buy an arcade racer just to break up the monotony, but after a month I get bored and go back to sims. So I'm not really concerned at the "lack" of new games. My Steam backlog just gets longer and longer after every Steam sale :lol:
 
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Kannon33r
Racing games in general aren't as popular as they used to be. The arcade racing genre is just a caricature of its former self now,
I don't think its a demand thing, more like problem of stagnation and lack of needed features. Forza Horizon break through 20 million players in 4 instalment and it unavailable at PlayStation (most likely there you can find another 20-30 millions).

Simcades cant provide combination of decent campaign, multiplayer progression, racing regulation and Forza-like content.

Arcades struggling with direction. NFS and Crew constantly changing vectors which leads to low quality and disbalance. On the other hand, Horizon evolving naturally and has enough players.

I think genre will have it golden age in 9 generation - GT and Forza moving to service model which would lead to more refined player experience and healthier content use.

Also, there is big room for indie car games. Imo, there is demand for remakes of car battle games and classic NFS-like games.
 
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The consoles need more racers, it's just unbelievable that they launched with no good racing games. And before you say dIrT fIvE is out, that game is not what I'm looking for in a racer. All we have right now are "walking simulators", I wouldn't have mind a hypothetical Driveclub 2 or perhaps a prologue version of Gran Turismo 7.

Guess I'm waiting for Hot Wheels and NASCAR to come out later this year. GT7, NFS and Test Drive all won't launch until probably late next freakin' year. Jeez talk about a dry spell.
Racing games, particular sims, are a niche genre with a relatively small fan base so perhaps it makes sense to wait for the install base to grow before you release your flagship racing game onto console?
 
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Selatapura, Usea
Racing games, particular sims, are a niche genre with a relatively small fan base so perhaps it makes sense to wait for the install base to grow before you release your flagship racing game onto console?
I just downloaded Wreckfest for PS5, my racing itch is scratched... for now lmao

There is a big gap in the market for a shameless Forza Horizon clone on the Playstation.

lol
 
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LeGeNd-1

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I don't think its a demand thing, more like problem of stagnation and lack of needed features. Forza Horizon break through 20 million players in 4 instalment and it unavailable at PlayStation (most likely there you can find another 20-30 millions).

Simcades cant provide combination of decent campaign, multiplayer progression, racing regulation and Forza-like content.

Arcades struggling with direction. NFS and Crew constantly changing vectors which leads to low quality and disbalance. On the other hand, Horizon evolving naturally and has enough players.

I think genre will have it golden age in 9 generation - GT and Forza moving to service model which would lead to more refined player experience and healthier content use.

Also, there is big room for indie car games. Imo, there is demand for remakes of car battle games and classic NFS-like games.

Ah yes, totally forgot about Horizon's success. Still, it took them until the 3rd or 4th game to be really successful and as you said it's not on PS. You can get in on PC but you need a pretty powerful system to play it so it's not really for casual gamers, which is a big blow for an arcade racer's popularity. Also this might just be my age speaking but I really dislike the service model used by games like FH or The Crew. It feels like a chore to just keep up with all the new content that you can't get anymore once the limited period is over. Even worse when the servers go down or the game gets delisted, if you buy a second hand physical copy in the future you'll be missing loads of content.

I remember back when I was a kid, everyone I knew had Gran Turismo, Ridge Racer and NFS. Even if they're not racing game fans. I think Underground 1-2 pulled similar numbers to GT3-4. These days you'd be lucky if the average gamer has 1 racing game in their collection. GT sales has been dwindling until GT Sport, and its probably aided by covid lockdowns getting more people to try out games they don't otherwise play. There are still interesting games from indie devs, but they don't really have the widespread acknowledgement of the old titles. Maybe stuff like ETS but that's not really racing.

At the end of the day, racing games are quite simple really and there's not a lot of innovation you can do with the gameplay. Everything's been done to an extent. It's just polishing, adding small features here and there, refresh the car/track roster and improve the graphics for next gen. So it's hard to really come out with something groundbreaking that pulls the public unless they're already car fans. And with everything moving to electric/autonomous, and the way ICE cars are getting vilified in today's society, I have a hard time imagining today's kids loving cars as much as we do back then.

So yeah, as much as I'd love for lots of great new racing games, I just expect the usual suspects to come out with their expected sequels. As long as they're good quality I'm happy enough with that.
 
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Kannon33r
Also this might just be my age speaking but I really dislike the service model used by games like FH or The Crew. It feels like a chore to just keep up with all the new content that you can't get anymore once the limited period is over. Even worse when the servers go down or the game gets delisted, if you buy a second hand physical copy in the future you'll be missing loads of content.
Its a question of developer policy regarding content. Healthier practice would be made seasonal rewards timed exclusives and after some time release them for in-game currency. Delisting could be beat by releasing box version with anniversary edition.

I remember back when I was a kid, everyone I knew had Gran Turismo, Ridge Racer and NFS. Even if they're not racing game fans. I think Underground 1-2 pulled similar numbers to GT3-4. These days you'd be lucky if the average gamer has 1 racing game in their collection. GT sales has been dwindling until GT Sport, and its probably aided by covid lockdowns getting more people to try out games they don't otherwise play. There are still interesting games from indie devs, but they don't really have the widespread acknowledgement of the old titles. Maybe stuff like ETS but that's not really racing.
Its a question of quality and legacy. Most of 8 generation racing games were mediocre and can't give you more than already great 7 gen games. Horizon on the other hand successfully growing because PG can provide something new and dont cut 75% of content from previous instalment.

At the end of the day, racing games are quite simple really and there's not a lot of innovation you can do with the gameplay. Everything's been done to an extent
I don't think so. Arcade driving games could utilize some dynamic environment features and power up gameplay, PvPvE elements, coop and class synergy gameplay. Simulation games could step into openworld as driving games. Sim racers should teach players how to drive, implement some racing regulation and decent progression system.

And with everything moving to electric/autonomous, and the way ICE cars are getting vilified in today's society, I have a hard time imagining today's kids loving cars as much as we do back then.
You could see how guns became almost nonexisting at streets and 150 years ago almost everyone have one. Did it lower interest in shooter games? Hell, no. EVs and selfdriving cars could murder traditional racing, but it would lead to rise of online competitive racing scene because people like racing.
 
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toastet
Seems like the complexity of creating racing games just killed it a bit. There were tons on PS2 and Xbox Classic and even still many on X360 and PS3. And I also mean with this many titles away from the typical series like NFS, Forza, Dirt and F1. PS4 and lesser but also XOne lacked the variety and sheer mass the 2 previous generations got. It is still a shame that there isn't even a normal Gran Turismo (6 came in 2013) on PS4 or a Motorstorm. And they killed Project Gotham or real Burnout (remastered Paradise is invalid) on XOne.
Remember when there were so many different titles like Blur, SRS, Juiced, RalliSportChallenge 1+2, Racing Evoluzione/Apex, Sega GT 2002/Online, Konamis Enthusia, Wangan Midnight, Import Tuner Challenge, Ridge Racer, Total Immersion Racing, Group S Challenge, Sega Rally, Test Drive, Midtown Madness, Ford Racing, Split Second, Flatout, Toca/Race Driver/Grid, V-Rally, World Racing and Midnight Clubs + Ferrari, Porsche, Corvette, Viper, Beetle, etc. exklusives on top. Now there is the "big players" or crap and way less titles or just the same. I mean NFS 2015, Payback and Heat are just the same with little differences. It's like F1 18, 19, 20 or Pcars 1+2. And titles like AC(C) are just not suitable on consoles without mods.
 
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Kannon33r
Seems like the complexity of creating racing games just killed it a bit.
Kinda. First off all, there isn't any widely available tech in ready to go package. Second, licenses.

I mean NFS 2015, Payback and Heat are just the same with little differences.
They are totally different games - every aspect aside from car models was different in next game. I think, problem is that they so much different, not that they similar.

AAA should change through evolutionary process, not via revolutionary changes. What the point for changes in NFS if general public cant see them behind poor quality?
 

Corsa

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I’m in a sim racing lull, haven’t had much interest or time in recent weeks to drive.
Pretty typical cycle for me, hit it hard then burn out for awhile.
Can’t even find a Series X to purchase so pretty happy developer cycle and my sim break are running hand in hand.
Times like this are great to explore other genres or revisit older sims on the PC.