Are you ready for the end of the ICE era?

  • Thread starter Populuxe
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Engines aren't going anywhere. They'll become smaller and require less fuel as we learn ways to save or recover energy, but the ICE will remain a staple in our cars for at least 50 years.
My ride is very similar to the in game Raptor. GT7 doesn't take it into account, but the Raptor, like mine, has a very small KERS system. The recovered energy is used to run electrical stuff only, leaving engine power the alternator would normally use on demand available for traction. The truck locks up the torque converter during most braking and increased battery charging current to add to the engine braking ability. It's not much but it'll power a cell phone or LED headlights.
The other trucks of that year employ a parallel twin turbo V6. I've seen it in action. Mileage reaches 40 miles to the gallon on that engine.
There's other stuff like matching tires to driving habits, keeping the vehicle maintained, etc. that will boost fuel mileage.
 
Gonna keep beating this drum:

New EVs Still Can’t Beat The Efficiency Of A Plug-In Hybrid

...a new report from the American Council for an Energy Efficient Economy suggests that the “greenest” car in America may not be fully electric. The nonprofit group, which has rated the pollution from vehicles for decades, says the winning car this year is the Toyota Prius Prime SE, a plug-in hybrid that can go 44 miles on electricity before switching to hybrid.

“It’s the shape of the body, the technology within it, and the overall weight,” said Peter Huether, senior research associate for transportation at ACEEE. “And all different types of Priuses are very efficient.”

[...]

The analysis shows that simply running on electricity is not enough to guarantee that a car is “green” — its weight, battery size and overall efficiency matter, too. While a gigantic electric truck weighing thousands of pounds might be better than a gas truck of the same size, both will be outmatched by a smaller, efficient gas vehicle. And the more huge vehicles there are on the road, the harder it will be for the United States to meet its goal of zeroing out emissions by 2050.

The GreenerCars report analyzes 1,200 cars available in 2024, assessing both the carbon dioxide emissions of the vehicle while it’s on the road and the emissions of manufacturing the car and battery. It also assesses the impact of pollutants beyond carbon dioxide, including nitrogen oxides, carbon monoxide and particulate matter — all of which can harm human health.

Of the 1,200 vehicles tested in the GreenerCar report, the Prius Prime PHEV came in with the highest score of 71 points out of a possible 100. The report assigns a “green score” by taking into account CO2 emitted by the manufacture of a given vehicle as well as its emissions when used on the road. The Prius Prime blew many new EVs out of the water, including the GMC Hummer EV, which came in with a score of 29 points.

I firmly believe that as a device for moving a human or a few humans around, there is nothing you can buy that's better than the Toyota Prius Prime. That thing is just an exceptional package - its mega-efficient, genuinely quick, practical and it even looks cool now! We really, really need more PHEV options that are as good as the Prius Prime...and nobody seems to be trying. I think government regulators should start soft-capping battery capacity in some fashion...the potential method that make sense to me is limiting tax incentives for vehicles over 50kwh. In no universe does it make sense to incentivize the Hummer EV. The goal ultimate goal shouldn't be merely selling electric cars, the goal should be increasing total miles driven without emissions and I think PHEVs are the best way to accomplish that in the near term while battery tech is evolving.
 
Overlooking weight is a huge issue. The lighter something is the less energy it needs to get up to speed. Then there is the effect on road longevity. Lighter vehicles will reduce the need for road maintenance which is a cost savings and a gain for the environment. Just making everything electric isn't enough, as stated. Total efficiency needs to be key parameter behind car design, and the choices available on the market should be evaluated thoroughly so it's clear which products are efficient and which aren't.
 
They'll become smaller and require less fuel as we learn ways to save or recover energy, but the ICE will remain a staple in our cars for at least 50 years.
The smaller=better has already been proven wrong. Toyota with their Prius has gone back to bigger again.
They started on 1.5L ICEs and now are back to 2.0L.
Small engines were only there to please the governments during a time at which they seemed advantageous on paper.
 
The goal ultimate goal shouldn't be merely selling electric cars, the goal should be increasing total miles driven without emissions and I think PHEVs are the best way to accomplish that in the near term while battery tech is evolving.
The ultimate goal should be making societies less car-centric in the first place. Easier said than done admittedly, but building momentum on public infrastructure projects and city planning now is as vital as trying to transition the entire car market to electric or hybrid.
 
Overlooking weight is a huge issue. The lighter something is the less energy it needs to get up to speed. Then there is the effect on road longevity. Lighter vehicles will reduce the need for road maintenance which is a cost savings and a gain for the environment. Just making everything electric isn't enough, as stated. Total efficiency needs to be key parameter behind car design, and the choices available on the market should be evaluated thoroughly so it's clear which products are efficient and which aren't.
Indeed, there have also been reports that electric cars go through tires significantly faster than the ICE cars.
 
The smaller=better has already been proven wrong. Toyota with their Prius has gone back to bigger again.
They started on 1.5L ICEs and now are back to 2.0L.
Small engines were only there to please the governments during a time at which they seemed advantageous on paper.
I think on average the ICE will be smaller. I've never driven anything under 2 liters and then only rarely. Most of my vehicles have had 4.6 or 5.0 liter V8 engines. There's no room for an electric motor in there with them. Maybe they could be mated to an eCVT, but with the 5.0 Coyote cranking almost 700 HP, is there a need for anything electric on that vehicle?
The reduction in mid displacement V8 engines will offset the increase in small engine displacement.
Out here in the mid-south USA, most households have at least one pickup truck or mid to full size SUV. They're often sold with V8 engines. Even the very first Expeditions sold in 1995 could have a 5.0 Windsor fitted to them, and those were the smallest SUV Ford built at the time. The Expedition grew up and the Explorer Sport that followed it could also have that engine installed. Stock ones had 4.0 Cologne V6 engines.
Now they're moving to turbocharged V6 engines and some all electric trucks. I don't see anyone hauling a load of horses from Fort Smith to Amarillo with an all electric pickup, but that run can be made easily with any V6 powered pickup, turbo or not.
I also think in the future we'll see cars with single cylinder range extenders. The Nissan Sakura could be fitted with that and eventually sold here. Personally I'd put one to use if I could even without the range extender. I could probably throw a 1000 watt generator on top to recharge the battery from about 4 liters of petrol...and that generator weighs 15 kilos tops.
 
I think on average the ICE will be smaller. I've never driven anything under 2 liters and then only rarely. Most of my vehicles have had 4.6 or 5.0 liter V8 engines. There's no room for an electric motor in there with them. Maybe they could be mated to an eCVT, but with the 5.0 Coyote cranking almost 700 HP, is there a need for anything electric on that vehicle?
The reduction in mid displacement V8 engines will offset the increase in small engine displacement.
Out here in the mid-south USA, most households have at least one pickup truck or mid to full size SUV. They're often sold with V8 engines. Even the very first Expeditions sold in 1995 could have a 5.0 Windsor fitted to them, and those were the smallest SUV Ford built at the time. The Expedition grew up and the Explorer Sport that followed it could also have that engine installed. Stock ones had 4.0 Cologne V6 engines.
Now they're moving to turbocharged V6 engines and some all electric trucks. I don't see anyone hauling a load of horses from Fort Smith to Amarillo with an all electric pickup, but that run can be made easily with any V6 powered pickup, turbo or not.
I also think in the future we'll see cars with single cylinder range extenders. The Nissan Sakura could be fitted with that and eventually sold here. Personally I'd put one to use if I could even without the range extender. I could probably throw a 1000 watt generator on top to recharge the battery from about 4 liters of petrol...and that generator weighs 15 kilos tops.
I don't think the Expedition was ever sold with the Windsor V8. Pretty sure it was the SOHC 4.6 & 5.4 from the beginning.

A 1000W generator will give you a maximum of 1.3hp to use after the battery is depleted, limiting your speed to probably under 10mph. Or if you are using it to only maintain the battery while driving, probably 3 hours running at maximum power which would give you about 3kwh of charge...maybe 10 miles of range extra? I'm not really onboard with range extenders...they seem to me nearly as complex and pose many of the packaging issues as Plug-In hybrids with none of the benefits*. I think the BMW i3 REX was undersized at 25kw and couldn't realistically do much beyond meagerly boost battery capacity. The 55kw MX-30 is getting closer, but for a non-enthusiast vehicle that just needs to work without fuss, I think you need around 100kw from the generator and design the car around never having reduced performance when the battery runs out.

My CR-V hybrid is basically an electric car with a range extender and practically no battery - meaning that the electric motor is the prime mover, but it gets its juice from the ICE motor rather than a large battery (it has a small battery as a sort of intermediary). The 2.0L is an Atkinson cycle with with a little north of 100kw of power. It's a great powertrain...except when the electric motor is demanding juice and the battery is empty, in which case the 2.0L basically has to go WOT to keep up with the demands, and you have noticeably reduced output (if your electric motor is rated at 205hp, and the generator that powers it can only produce 140hp, you're not getting full motive power.). In the real world what this means is that at low speeds (<30mph) where there is some stored energy remaining, the car feels really quick, but at highway speeds - and especially steep grades at highway speeds - you feel like you're driving a 2-ton car with 140hp...because you are. I'm not sure where I'm going with all this exactly other than to say PHEVs are probably the best option out there for most people.

*If Mazda makes the Iconic SP with a range extender, I can get onboard with that because of the unique packaging and performance requirements of a small sports car that make a traditional PHEV or BEV difficult or impossible.
 
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