Vaccinations thread.
- Thread starter Dennisch
- 436 comments
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- Sweden
- eran0004
- 20,681
- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
- 3,070
- Norway
Sounds to me like you'd prefer mandatory vaccination then.
- 20,681
- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
Not at all, but I agree that there should be service restrictions on people who refuse vaccinations (or who have them refused on their behalf). That's what this scheme proposes, not that vaccinations should be mandatory. Those who choose to opt out of social healthcare should be free to do so.
- 3,070
- Norway
But not without punishment, right?
Don't get me wrong, I'm not arguing that vaccinations are bad.
For me it's a question of whether or not deterring people from exercising their freedom of choice is the right direction.
Do you really have freedom of choice if you get punished by the authorities for exercising it?
- 9,401
- Western Sydney
- mustafur
Except when they spread diseases that were part of the Vaccination treatment.
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/mar/17/measles-california-disneyland-vaccination-research
Difference being smokers have been isolated to areas where non smokers don't have to be.
if they made it so that you could only go to school or be allowed in public places without vaccination then it would equal smoking.
- 13,729
- Adelaide
- Neomone
So, let's contrast this to another area where your freedom is restricted, your ability to stab people in the face.
You have the freedom to do it if you want, but you will be punished for exercising this freedom. I think most people would agree that this is for the best for society on the whole, even though some people might really, really like to stab someone in the face.
Now, not vaccinating a child is obviously not as severe as stabbing someone in the face. But it is placing the child in what could be considered unnecessary danger, which could result in significant injury or death, and could place a significant cost on the health system.
Should the government use economics to encourage parents to vaccinate their children in such a case? I think so. It's not as severe as face stabbing, so incarceration shouldn't be on the table, but I think some sort of financial penalty is appropriate to balance the risk that you're putting your child and others at, and the potential cost to the country's health system.
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
It's a laudable policy, but there are bigger issues facing our community right now. And the anti-vaccination movement is biggest in the affluent suburbs, among people who don't claim benefits and who won't suffer from the loss of Family Tax Benefit A.
That's over-simplifying the issue. Say for example that you choose not to vaccinate. That's fine. But every day, you pick up your unvaccinated six year-old from school - as do all of the other parents. And among them is an infant who hasn't been vaccinated yet because they're not old enough. That infant can get sick from your child with something like whooping cough, which is preventable and potentially deadly in infants. That may sound far-fetched, but it is believed to be exactly what happened in Perth quite recently, and a newborn died as a result.
So it's one thing to argue for the freedom of choice - but you're not just making the decision for yourself and your family. You're making a decision that can affect others; in effect making a decision for them. And it's one that goes against medical advice and established medical literature.
- 31,104
- Hilversum
- Dennisch
But it's a step in the proper direction. People need to realize that they do more harm by not vaccinating.
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
It is, but it's only a step. It needs to have more behind it, like education programmes.
Personally, I'd prefer it if the government set about fixing our abhorrent treatment of asylum seekers (which they won't do because that treatment is their policy) and the epidemic of violence against women in the community - thirty-two women have been murdered already this year, and nobody seems to know what to do about it.
- 3,070
- Norway
Then how can you be fine with people opting out of vaccinating their children?
And when it's a life-or-death matter for all the babies, surely a mandatory vaccination program would be a better course of action than relatively mild economic sanctions?
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- Denur; GTP_Denur
Why are you deliberately going off topic so quickly?
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
- 6,968
- South Africa
......I feel like I need to slap a #firstworldproblems here, but may not be appropriate after all.
(Oh wait...)
Personally, why slap someone's wrist, when you can lead 'em back on the right track with, uhm, candies?
....Apologies, I'm not so good with 'em words. I'll try harder next time.
(Oh wait...)
Personally, why slap someone's wrist, when you can lead 'em back on the right track with, uhm, candies?
....Apologies, I'm not so good with 'em words. I'll try harder next time.
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
- 11,677
- Australia
- I_Grayson_Fox_I
You can do what you want.
But when it comes to your child you must do what is best for that child and any child that comes near your child.
Some daycares to not allow an unvaccinated children to be enrolled.
I don't see how there is any passage in any religious text that says vaccinating is bad as the word vaccinate didn't exist when most religions, and those people have double standards to start with.
My religion says vaccinating is bad, yet I can get blood transfusions, take medications.
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- HamiltonMP427
- 2,993
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- jimipitbull
A religion that shall remain nameless has a free pass around this legislation
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- Adelaide
- Neomone
So if they make it a law that you must vaccinate your child that would be OK? I suspect you'd be saying much the same things about freedom and so on. I don't think the fact that they've gone for "soft" enforcement changes much at all.
Since you don't have a sense of humour, how about you consider something like speeding instead of face stabbing? Mostly not dangerous in the right situations, but has potential negative effects for both yourself and the community, and long term is probably going to burden the health system over not speeding. When caught, you're slapped with a fine (for the first few times anyway), so economic penalty.
Is this something where you feel that people should be allowed to do whatever they want, and pay the costs as appropriate?
P.S. Where are you from? I feel it's relevant if you come from a country without socialised healthcare.
- 22,549
- Arizona
- HamiltonMP427
I thought Vegard was from Denmark, forgive me if I'm wrong but I recall that somewhere on here.
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