Big Test: Best Handling Front Wheel Drive Car - Convertibles added @ 30.09!

  • Thread starter eiriksmil
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eiriksmil

eiriksmil

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Norway
Norway
Hello,

I have in the past few weeks focusing a lot on what the best front wheel drive cars (FF) are in Gran Turismo 4. I'll drive all the FFs at least 5 laps around Laguna Seca each, to find out, which FF is the best.


The objectives
The goal is to find the front wheel driven car which:

1. Has the most neutral handling.
2. Has the best suspension
3. Goes around the Laguna Seca fastest.
4. Can combine straight line speed with nice, neutral handling.
5. Is most driver-focused.
6. Is most exciting to drive.



The thoughts
I think the best, most neutral handling car will be a front wheel drive car with a smaller engine. Smaller engine means lower weight.
I think the ones with lower weight is more exciting to drive.


The deciding, how it works
After having found the five best cars from each group, these will be tested head-to-head on Laguna Seca, El Capitan, Infineon Raceway Sports Car Course and Deep Forest. The car I find most exciting and rewarding to drive, will win.


The criterias for entering
The car must be front wheel drive, obviously.
There's no difference wheter it's a 4-banger or a V6, if is NA or FI.
The car must be stock, only oil change is allowed to do before the test drive.
The car must be a road car.


The track

laguna.jpg



Why have I chosen the Laguna Seca to test on?
In the first corner, one can test the high speed handling skills of the car. Will it slide off or will it keep on track? Speeds raising up to 200 km/h (we are talking FF production cars) are not unlikely, and therefore it's nice to test the brakes when the 2nd corner comes up, better known as the Andretti Hairpin. The 2nd corner shows what the brakes can do, and how smooth the throttle response is. I can also detect understeer in the Andretti Hairpin, as speeds go as low as 50 km/h, before it's full pressure up again.
In the 3rd corner, it's all about seeing how well the car's rear end will slide out when I depress the throttle. It's a nice way of telling if the car is balanced, or if it's too much weight up at the front. The 4th corner really tells wheter a car is balanced or not, as many cars needs to let go of some understeering here, while the best cars sometimes will accept full pressure through the whole corner.
The 5th corner requires smooth cornering abilities. The trick here is to turn-in while braking a bit, then go full power around the corner. Most cars end up in the gravel trap if they're being pushed to hard here, so this is really a corner of control. The 6th corner shows how well the suspension is suited to unregularities in the tarmac, because you have to lean the car up at the curvs, while giving gas. Some cars react by sending you off the track here, but most cars handles this corner with smooth abilities. It's essential to get this corner right, as you really need speed for the uphill Rahal Straight.
The 7th corner is just over a crest, so this requires torque to get around, while the brakes are handy if you come just a tad too fast for the 8th corner; The Corkscrew. There are not many tracks in the world boasting a "corkscrew", Laguna Seca is one of few. This corner will show brakes, suspension, how well a car reacts to difference in altitude in a short period of time and how well the power sets down to the ground.
The 9th corner is also known as the Rainey Curve. This, like many other corners here, is a full-on corner where speed and traction meet, both important for a smooth performance. On Laguna Seca, grip is everything, if you haven't guessed it by now. The 10th corner is scary. Here it's important to line the car up perfectly, as the corner bends in a unprepared way it's a typical "make-or-break" corner. Sometimes it goes smoothly, sometimes you'll end up feet from where you should have been.
The 11th and last corner is also a tricky one. It's a "brake hard, accelerate hard"-corner. If you don't do this correctly, a lot of time will be lost also in the beginning of the next lap.
So overall, this is a wide but technical track perfect for FFs.


The cars


Coupes

Acura CL 3.2 Type-S 2001
Acura CL 3.2 Type-S 2003
Acura Integra Type-R 2001
Acura RSX Type-S 2004
Alfa Romeo GT 3.2 V6 24V 2004
Alfa Romeo GT 3.0 V6 24V 2001
Eagle Talon ESi 1997
Fiat Coupe Turbo Plus 2000
Honda 1300 Coupe 9 S 1970
Honda Ballade Sports CRX 1.5i 1983
Honda CRX SiR 1990
Honda CRX Del Sol SiR 1992
Honda Accord Coupe 1988
Honda Accord Coupe EX 2003
Honda Integra Type-R DC2 1995
Honda Integra Type-R DC2 1998
Honda Integra Type-R DC2 1999
Honda Integra Type-R DC5 2003
Honda Prelude Si VTEC 1991
Honda Prelude SiR 1996
Honda Prelude SiR S spec 1998
Honda Prelude Type S 1996
Honda Prelude Type S 1998
Hyundai Coupe FX 2001
Mitsubishi Eclipse GT 1995
Mitsubishi Eclipse GT 2006
Mitsubishi FTO GP Version R 1997
Mitsubishi FTO GP Version R 1999
Mitsubishi FTO GPX 1994
Mitsubishi FTO GPX 1997
Mitsubishi FTO GPX 1999
Mitsubishi FTO GR 1994
Opel Tigra 1.6i 1999
Peugeot 406 3.0 V6 Coupe 1998
Renault Avantime 2002
Renault Megane 2.0 IDE Coupe 2000
Toyota Celica 2000GT-R (ST162) 1986
Toyota CELICA GT-R ST183 4WS 1991
Toyota CELICA SS-II ST202 1997
Toyota CELICA SS-II ZZT231 1999
Toyota Corolla Levin BZ-R 1998
Toyota Corolla RUNX Z Aerotourer 2002
Toyota Sera 1992
Vauxhall Tigra 1.6i 1999


Hatchbacks

Alfa Romeo 147 2.0 Twinspark 2002
Alfa Romeo 147 GTA 2002
Audi A2 1.4 2002
Autobianchi A112 Abarth 1979
Chrysler PT Cruiser 2000
Citroen 2CV Type A 1954
Citroen C3 1.6 2002
Citroen Xsara VTR 2003
Daihatsu Move CX 1995
Daihatsu Move SR-XX 2WD 1997
Daihatsu Sirion CX 2WD 1998
Fiat Panda Super i.e. 1990
Fiat Punto HGT Abarth 2000
Ford Focus RS 2002
Ford Focus ST170 2003
Ford Ka 2001
Honda Civic 1500 3door 25i 1983
Honda Civic 1500 3door CX 1979
Honda Civic SiR-II EG 1991
Honda Civic SiR-II EG 1992
Honda Civic SiR-II EG 1993
Honda Civic SiR-II EG 1995
Honda Civic Type-R EK 1997
Honda Civic Type-R EK 1998
Honda Civic Type-R EP 2001
Honda Civic Type-R EP 2004
Honda Jazz 1.4 dsi Se 2001
Honda LIFE STEP VAN 1972
Honda N360 1967
Honda Today G 1985
Honda Z Act 1970
Mazda 2 2003
Mazda Demio (J) 1999
Mini One 2002
Mini Cooper 2002
Mini Cooper S 2002
Mitsubishi Colt 1.5 Sport X Version 2002
Mitsubishi Mirage 1400GLX 1978
Mitsubishi Mirage Cyborg ZR 1997
Nissan Be-1 1987
Nissan CUBE EX (FF/CVT) 2002
Nissan CUBE X 1998
Nissan EXA Canopy L.A.Version Type S (N13) 1988
Nissan March G# 1999
Nissan Micra 2003
Nissan Pao 1989
Peugeot 106 Rallye 2003
Peugeot 106 S16 2003
Peugeot 206 RC 2003
Peugeot 206 S16 1999
Peugeot 307 XSi 2004
Pontiac Vibe GT 2003
Renault Clio Renault Sport 2.0 16V 2002
Seat Ibiza Cupra 2004
Toyota bB 1.5Z X Version 2000
Toyota Corolla RUNX Z Aeroturer 2002
Toyota Starlet Glanza V 1997
Toyota Yaris F (J) 1999
Toyota Yaris RS 1.5 (J) 2000
Toyota Yaris RS Turbo (J) 2002
Toyota Yaris U Euro Sport Edition (J) 2000
Toyota Voltz S 2002
Toyota WiLL VS 2001
Volkswagen Golf I GTI 1976
Volkswagen Golf IV GTI 2001
Volkswagen Golf V GTI 2005
Volkswagen Lupo 1.4 2002
Volkswagen Lupo GTI 2001
Volkswagen New Beetle 2.0 2000
Volkswagen Polo GTI 2001


Sedans

Alfa Romeo 156 2.5 V6 24V 1998
Alfa Romeo 166 2.5 V6 24V Sportronic 1998
Citroen C5 V6 Exclusive 2003
Citroen Xantia 3.0i V6 Exclusive 2000
Dodge SRT-4 2003
Ford Taurus SHO 1998
Honda Accord Euro-R 2000
Honda Accord Euro-R 2002
Mazda 323F 1993
Mazda 6 5-door 2003
Mazda Familia Sedan Sport 20 2002
Nissan Primera 2.0Te 1990
Nissan Primera 20V 2001
Opel Vectra 3.2 V6 2003
Toyota Carina ED 2.0 X 4WS 1989
Toyota Prius G (J) 2002
Toyota Prius G Touring Selection (J) 2003
Vauxhall Vectra 3.2 V6 2003
Volvo S60 T 5 Sport 2003


Convertibles

Alfa Romeo Spider 3.0 V6 24V 2001
Daihatsu Copen Active Top 2002
Daihatsu Copen Detachable Top 2002
Fiat Barchetta Giovane Due 2000
Mitsubishi Eclipse Spyder GTS 2003
Peugeot 206 CC 2001


Updates will happen regularly.


Eirik
 
The Convertibles




Mitsubishi Eclipse Spyder GTS 2003

p6dm5.jpg



The Mitsubishi Eclipse Spyder – or as many knows it, simply the Mitsubishi Spyder. At 1510 kg, it’s not a light vehicle and the 223 bhp are needed for the car to go fast.
The brakes are very good, instant stopping, while the throttle response is not so good. It feels more like the car floats over the corners than cutting through them, making careful balancing in corners rather difficult. The steering is quite nice, but is destroyed by a tad too inspired engine. 223 bhp is too much for the front wheels here to handle, the chassis can’t cope, probably because it’s a convertible.
The Spyder fits better in Malibu, or another Californian drive, perhaps Long Beach, San Francisco or Beverly Hills (the bottom, though), than on a track. It’s a never-ending evil circle. The convertible chassis cannot cope with the 223 bhp needed to push the car forwards because the chassis needs extra strength and therefore weighs more.
It’s quite fun to drive, though, but difficult. I found myself more often on the gravel traps than on the track, but if you can handle the power and weight, it’s a decent drive.



Peugeot 206 CC 2001

p5gh6.jpg



The Peugeot 206 CC is not a regular sight here in California. It’s not sold in the US, only in Europe. However, it’s a big hit over there, and there’s no surprise to me after having driven it.
I have always pitched this car as more show than go, because of slight big overhangs, female looks and the fact that it is a girl’s car. However, it proved to be a nice addition to our FF-test fleet when we took it out on the track. Interesting, sporty, yet relatively powerful – at least feeling so. With a mere 143 bhp, a track time of 1:52.167 is really close to the Honda CRX Del Sol’s time of 1:51:977. The French car has got 20 bhp less, and is matter of fact a convertible.
Which is easy to forget when sitting there, wondering why the chassis is so stiff and why the suspension tackles under steering very well. No wheel spin, only in first gear under a tad too heavy acceleration. The brake feel is okay, so is the throttle feel. A slight disappointment; it was fairly hard to drive fast; I found myself out on the gravel traps several times.
But, when everything is summed up, it’s a rather nice front wheel driven car, 365 days a year. The rear slips easily, it’s got good balance, the handling is relatively neutral and it has a good amount of power, but not too much.



Daihatsu Copen Detachable Top 2002

p4of7.jpg



The Daihatsu Copen, could it be Japans Audi TT Convertible? Well, stylish it is, with it’s cute, tiny looks combined with a decent profile and clever detailing. Daihatsu has probably never put so much effort into the design and styling, and they have succeeded.
With only 63 bhp this car might not scare the heaviest of the muscle cars on the ¼ mile. Neither would it scare the Honda CRX from 1983. However, that’s not what it’s built for. The Copen is a great drive. Just think about it, the car weighs 800 kilos, while the turbocharged 659 cc engine keeps the weight down at the front (it keeps the power down too, though), making the car balanced and neutral.
The turbo usage isn’t very noticeable, but it doesn’t come on until 3000 rpm or so, and it fades out above 8000 rpm, so gearing must happen around 6500-7000 rpm, making spirited driving kind of exhausting.
The biggest minus about the Copen is probably not a surprise, but it hasn’t got much power, and that is a minus on the straights. However, that’s also the fun part with the Copen. Putting the pedal to the metal in corners is possible without having to float over the corners. The Copen press’ it’s luck and goes through the corner with tremendous grip. I am really, really impressed here.

Daihatsu Copen Active Top 2002

p3rr2.jpg



While the Detachable Top is sportier, with a black hardtop and a boot spoiler the Active Top is more a women’s car. The folding roof takes up 30 kgs more, but I can’t say it affects the handling in any particular way. The two cars are extremely close when it comes to both performance and lap times.
However, I feel the Active Top has more charisma for some reason. It’s more of a car, has more soul than the Detachable top. I know it’s a weird thing to say, but that’s how it feels after driving them both.



Alfa Romeo Spider 3.0 V6 24V 2001

p1nj5.jpg



The Alfa Romeo Spider, beauty on the outside, but not so on the inside.
The 24V 3.0 litre engine goes like stink, that’s for sure. High speeds are easily obtained and the big engine revs smoothly up to 6.000 rpm. However, already in the first corner the car shows it’s weaknesses. It’s heavy, front-heavy, like the GT and GTV. With way too much torque and power going to the front wheels, hairpins must be done with caution and care, not do develop massive wheel spin and lose the front wheels.
Several times during the first laps I got the impression the car floated more over the corners than carving through them. The Alfa missed out several times on the trickier corners too. It’s just too front heavy.
Still, there was a certain joy driving it, it was rather fine, but it does cost a lot of money too. It’s quite good, but nothing more.



Fiat Barchetta Giovane Due 2000

p2zy1.jpg



The Fiat Barchetta is just another Italian beauty. What is it with Europeans and convertibles, huh?
The Barchetta opened as a very sad car. I prepared for a late brake and went through with it just the same way as I had done with the Alfa Romeo a bit earlier. I had gone faster in the Alfa, but the Fiat was out of balance when I slammed the brakes.
However, the Fiat improved seriously when I learnt to know it. It’s a “grow on you”-car; you can’t appreciate it fully on the first laps, like you can with a 206 CC (I had never driven this before at all). The 136 bhp comes in handy on straights, but the car has some noticeable understeer, even if it’s less than 150 bhp. It’s strange, and not very impressive. In addition, the steering wheel shakes and the car feels unstable and insecure.
It’s like many other front wheel driven cars, interesting, but not supremely good to drive. It’s a shame, because even if the Barchetta has lived for a couple of years, it still looks fresh and nice. Shame the chassis can’t say the same thing.



Lap times


Mitsubishi Eclipse Spyder GTS 2003: 1:48.338
Alfa Romeo Spider 3.0 V6 24V 2001: 1:51.241
Peugeot 206 CC 2001: 1:52.167
Fiat Barchetta Giovane Due 2000: 1:55.436
Daihatsu Copen Detachable Top 2002: 2:03.152
Daihatsu Copen Active Top 2002: 2:03.319



Power


Alfa Romeo Spider 3.0 V6 24V 2001: 230
Mitsubishi Eclipse Spyder GTS 2003: 223
Peugeot 206 CC 2001: 143
Fiat Barchetta Giovane Due 2000: 136
Daihatsu Copen Detachable Top 2002: 67
Daihatsu Copen Active Top 2002: 67



Weight


Daihatsu Copen Detachable Top 2002: 14.980
Daihatsu Copen Active Top 2002: 14.980
Fiat Barchetta Giovane Due 2000: 24.060
Peugeot 206 CC 2001: 26.520
Mitsubishi Eclipse Spyder GTS 2003: 26.780
Alfa Romeo Spider 3.0 V6 24V 2001: 51.190



The verdict


The Alfa Romeo Spider was an okay drive, but it just had a too big engine and had serious problems justifying the hard 51k price tag. You can pick up a Daihatsu Copen for three times less and still have more fun.

The Mitsubishi Eclipse should perhaps never been in this test as a convertible. In fact, I don’t think a front wheel drive third generation should have existed at all. The 2nd generation is nice, and the 4th is very sharp, but the third is a piece of rubbish better off in Malibu. It’s got too much power, and you really have to control it in every corner. The Eclipse would have been better off as an AWD under the gentlemen’s agreement, straight from Japan.

The Fiat Barchetta is Italian magic that works rather well, but it’s just too insecure. On the other hand, it was a close call between the Fiat Barchetta and the Peugeot 206 CC. The Barchetta had several good points, good looks, a bit lower price than the 206, and boasts an interesting drive. However, it was just too many minuses with the car to give it third place.

The Peugeot 206 CC is exactly what you want in a cabriolet. It’s fun, smart, fast, clever – and usable 365 days a year. It looks as appropriate on the French Riviera as it does on the Laguna Seca. It’s a very, very good package for 26k.

The Daihatsu Copen Detachable should have been the winner on paper. It costs the same as it’s 30 kg heavier brother and is sportier. However, it just doesn’t feel as good as the Active Top.

The Daihatsu Copen Active Top is the winner of the cabriolet-part in the FF test. It’s cheap, charismatic, fun to drive, has got great grip and is really a great driving experience. It’s the best car here – also money aside. I found myself doing a couple of laps too much with this car than the standard five. It’s that kind of feeling I want, the “Wow”-feeling you get when you’ve been driving for an hour, forgetting the time, just cruising in your lovely car.


Because the Active Top and Detachable Top is nearly the same car, the Peugeot gets the 2nd place and the Barchetta gets the 3rd place, so they are still in the game, heading over to the finale.
 
Cant wait for your next report really well done, giving each car's strengths and weaknesses is a brilliant idea +rep
Also great photos of the cars on the limit under brakes shows that you are pushing the limits
 
That's a top job. Although you still have a gigantic amount of cars to trawl through. That will keep you occupied until GTHD or GT5 comes out.

I will be driving the Copens soon so I look forward to seeing how they go. Even though they are the same car I also would've picked the Active Top to be the better one. It looks way cooler as well.

Oh yeah and +Rep from me too.
 
well done, a lot of work and time went into this 👍 just one question: what about the Dodge SRT-4? i think you missed that one......

viper
 
viperpilot
well done, a lot of work and time went into this 👍 just one question: what about the Dodge SRT-4? i think you missed that one......

viper
Click to expand...

A good point. It should be under "Sedans."

In fact, I noticed NONE of the american manufactuers represented in that category. No Taurus SHO, either.
 
Jim Prower
A good point. It should be under "Sedans."

In fact, I noticed NONE of the american manufactuers represented in that category. No Taurus SHO, either.
Click to expand...

I have tested the SHO for you, but I had forgotten to write it up here. However, I had completely missed the Dodge SRT-4. Both of 'em up in first post now. If there are any other cars missing, PM me.
Update of Sedans will come in this weekend *wohoo*


Eirik
 
We all know deadlines suck. I've had the Disc Read Problems, with both the laser on my PS2 and the disc itself. In addition, I have had limited ability to use a computer to write on. However, I'm almost done with the Sedans, and they will hopefully be finished today or tomorrow.

I can give you a teaser, the Hondas are performing quite well, while there are many boring cars in the sedan group. But what can you expect?

Sorry for all delay, it is now over a month ago I posted the first part of this exciting comparo and I have to keep this party going.


Eirik
 
I guess read disc error doesn't give me the biggest inspiration, but I've done most of the write-ups regarding the sedans and I only need two-three cars more on the paper, probably will be done by the day is over.


Here's a teaser picture:

IMG0201.jpg



Eirik
 
G'day Eirik, I'm new here, but how do you afford all these cars!? I suppose you've just got tons of money, or can you share a little cash secret? I'd love to test heaps of cars like you, but I'm still building up the cash and can't afford to buy ALL the cars necessary for a comparable test!

Thanks mate,

Tom
 
i think the srt-4 will be a sporty shoice, the ek9 preludes are good at beating me in races, good luck with this, try vacuuming inside the ps2 whiel the disc tray is open, and get some clean
 
Five months and two days since I wrote something here. The PlayStation has been more dead than ever, and I am suspecting that it is also creating small scratches in my discs. Not fun, for neither me nor you. I'll see what I can do regarding the PlayStation, don't hope for too much.


Eirik
 
Just started reading these forums again and was really excited when I saw this thread! Coincidentally, you just posted for the first time in 5 months :) hope you can work something out!
 
Hope you get the PS2 problem solved, im looking forward to the end results

Great Job so far, you must have some serious patience :sly:
 

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