BMW 3-Series (G20) / M3 (G80) / 4-Series / M4

What an incredibly dull car. It's like someone said, "we need 15 feet of car" but in German (probably Wir brauchen 15 Fuß Auto).

Although BMW could probably slap a badge on a cardboard box, call it a 3-series, and it'd sell millions.

I miss the older 3-series that came with some sort of styling and were at least interesting.
 
Joey D
What an incredibly dull car. It's like someone said, "we need 15 feet of car" but in German (probably Wir brauchen 15 Fuß Auto).
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I doubt they'd use something as imprecise as feet, but anyway, what is it that makes it incredibly dull, versus just dull? And, is there a car in this class that isn't generally speaking, similarly as dull?
 
Let's not call things dull guys



Lexus-LS-500-style-overview-1204x555-LEX-LSG-MY18-0006-01.jpg




It become so much worse...
 
MatskiMonk
I doubt they'd use something as imprecise as feet, but anyway, what is it that makes it incredibly dull, versus just dull? And, is there a car in this class that isn't generally speaking, similarly as dull?
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It looks like what you'd get if you put in "generic sedan, late 2010's" into Google. There's nothing about it that makes it pop or even remotely interesting. It gets a pretty standard range of engine choices, pretty standard range of tech, and there's nothing styling wise to really set it apart from the previous 3-series.

As for what isn't dull? The Tesla Model 3. I dislike the car and I'm by no means a fan of Tesla, but I wouldn't call the Model 3 dull.

As for what makes it incredibly dull vs. just dull? An adjective.
 
A nice colour, lower the new G20, sports package, and beautiful wheel and this new BMW is far from a dull car.
 
I have lost faith in BMW to produce anything I would ever want to own ever again. I hate this company. All of their newest products confirm to me that they have lost their way - they're no longer the sporty German brand, whereas Audi has never wavered from its technocrat position, and Mercedes has never lost sight of its luxury battleship goal. BMW used to be the sporty one but they're no longer sporty and instead of some weird middle ground where they aren't as nice as Mercedes and aren't as fancy as Audi.

And they aren't even as pretty as what the Japanese offer...
ProjectWHaT
Let's not call things dull guys



Lexus-LS-500-style-overview-1204x555-LEX-LSG-MY18-0006-01.jpg




It become so much worse...
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This car is literally emotion on wheels. Look at those sexy flowing lines. This car is so sexy I'm getting confused while I type this, actually. That's not TMI either, it's just hard facts.
 
MatskiMonk
BMW is no longer sporty? Huh.
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They're no longer offering a manual trans in their "sport sedan" in the US. BMW no longer cares about an engaging driving experience, fact. Convince me otherwise. If you want a luxury sport sedan with a manual in the US you have to get an Alfa Romeo Infiniti Lexus freaking Hyundai. BMW is nothing more than Mercedes or Audi anymore, except it's not as good at being either of those things as they are.
 
Keef
Convince me otherwise.
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I'm good thanks.. arguing with manual-or-die transmission elitists from a country that can't seem to operate, and doesn't want buy manual transmissions would be a waste of time. As, I guess, would be asking for proof of that statement you claim as fact.
 
Keef
They're no longer offering a manual trans in their "sport sedan" in the US. BMW no longer cares about an engaging driving experience, fact. Convince me otherwise. If you want a luxury sport sedan with a manual in the US you have to get an Alfa Romeo Infiniti Lexus freaking Hyundai. BMW is nothing more than Mercedes or Audi anymore, except it's not as good at being either of those things as they are.
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I like the M Performance division. BMW offer sports suspension, wheels, seats, etc. Dont know if they offer K&N filters to boost hp 12-14 over stock, but it's cool they have such options.

I prefer manuals, but that was pretty much many people's view when the R35 came out. Why make a super Coupe with flappy paddles? Would it be sportier as a manual? Look at Ferrari and Lamborghini. Most of the sales are flappy paddles. Even if one or two manuals are sold, it doesn't mean it's sportier.

I get your understanding, but I've accepted the new wave of performance autos. That ZF in the now defunct Falcon, is superb. Best auto I've ever driven. However, race cars having only paddle selectors and sequential stick shifts, majority of passenger road cars, actually mimic those cars today.
 
Keef
They're no longer offering a manual trans in their "sport sedan" in the US. BMW no longer cares about an engaging driving experience, fact. Convince me otherwise. If you want a luxury sport sedan with a manual in the US you have to get an Alfa Romeo Infiniti Lexus freaking Hyundai. BMW is nothing more than Mercedes or Audi anymore, except it's not as good at being either of those things as they are.
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Neither Ferrari, Lamborghini, Bugatti, Pagani, Alpine, nor McLaren are offering manual transmissions in their cars. I guess they don't care about an engaging driving experience, either. Look, I love manuals, but there is more to a car than its pedal count.

I do agree that BMW of today is very different to the company it was 20 years ago. Today it's a much more mainstream company aimed at a very different audience. But, realistically, a lot of companies are. Everyone makes SUVs, Kia offers a CLA-style "shooting brake" and a 360 bhp RWD sports saloon, Maserati makes an E class competitor with cheap Mopar parts, and Ford has totally given up on selling saloons in the US. I don't particularly like the way BMW has taken its core lineup, but I was first unhappy with the F10 so I don't know why the G20 is getting everyone up in arms. At least the interior looks nice, unlike the awful cockpit of the F30. The i3 and i8 are both interesting and unique cars, and they give me hope that BMW still can produce special cars.
 
Clark
What’s wrong with the F30 interior? @Beeblebrox237
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I don't like the design, primarily because it feels disjointed to me. There's not much sense that everything is part of the same interior. The doors and dash don't really flow into one another much, the climate/radio controls are sort of their own shape and kind of look like they were plonked in the centre stack without much change from their former state, and the dashboard has some odd angled bits of plastic going towards the passenger's side. Specifically the way the dashpad comes down and cuts off the trim, and the way the centre console extends up on one side to meet the dash, also cutting off the trim. I also think the materials are subpar for the class; I feel Audi and Mercedes do a better job with materials and with hiding the cheap plastic bits. All subjective, of course, but I really do dislike the F30's interior and if I ever was going to buy one it would either be a used example cheap enough that it doesn't matter or a car with a BMW Individual interior since the extra leather does improve things somewhat.
 
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05XR8
I like the M Performance division. BMW offer sports suspension, wheels, seats, etc. Dont know if they offer K&N filters to boost hp 12-14 over stock, but it's cool they have such options.
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M Performance Power Kit was/is available for 3, 4, and 5 series models - was worth 15-25kW IIRC. This is essentially just a software update, but may be linked to some upgraded hardware also. Most importantly, it also comes with stickers, which is where I think most of the power upgrade comes from.
 
Keef
It's also ugly as sin.
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I call your G20 and raise you these:
1200px-2018_BMW_520d_xDrive_M_Sport_Automatic_2.0_Front.jpg


2018-bmw-x6-xdrive35i-review.jpg


2019-bmw-series-road-1-640x640.jpg


1200px-2012_BMW_125i_%28F20%29_5-door_hatchback_%282015-07-03%29_01.jpg


bmw2-seriesgrandtourer1.jpg


2019_BMW_Z4.jpg

I don't particularly like the G20, I think it looks both fussy and boring, but I wouldn't describe it as ugly from the photos. I think the models in the photos above look worse than the G20 so again, I don't think the G20 is an outlier here. BMW hasn't made consistently attractive cars since before the Bangle era, and in hindsight, I really like his work, but that's even more controversial than the stuff they make today.
 
The new 5 is decent, and that minivan thing looks nice from the 3/4 view (although it's probably not rear-drive because BMW has sold out in the driving experience department).

Also, what fool decided to give the Z4/Supra two-foot long overhangs at either end?
 
Keef
and that minivan thing looks nice from the 3/4 view (although it's probably not rear-drive because BMW has sold out in the driving experience department)
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Yeah, but it is available as a manual, so it's sporty as sports person doing sports on sports day. Tru-petrolhead factor +9000 !1!!.


[/sarcasm]
 
As I said before, you can make this new G20 an exiting car. Chose the right colour, lower the car, nice wheels and a sports package and the G20 is probably far from boring and ugly.

Most standard cars are boring. Even a simple standard 991 C2 (mentioning Porsche again because I'm a 911 fan, sort of), is a boring car. Not ugly but boring.
 
BMW might be tired of it, but it wouldn't have to put up with it either if it wasn't tripping up in areas it didn't used to, like dynamics and styling.

I've spent the last few days in a Kia Stinger, and from experience that car drives better than the equivalent 3-series. More fluidity, more natural steering, not a huge difference in body control despite it being pretty porky. Kia even fits a limited-slip diff as standard, and BMW hasn't done that for decades... I don't doubt the new 3er will be better than the current one, but that a Kia - a Kia - gets near it at all should be deeply concerning for a company like BMW.

Maybe standards are higher now than they used to be. The average car is far better now than 20 years ago when the E36 and E46 were in their prime, so BMWs don't stand so far ahead.

And maybe we hold BMW to higher standards, but then we should. The company has an enviable history and has produced some of the world's best cars in the markets in which it competes. I'm not sure it's doing that any longer.

If I were a new car buyer today and wanted a good sports saloon, I'd buy an Alfa Giulia. If I wanted a good saloon full-stop, I'd buy a C-class. Ask someone the same 5/10/15/20 years ago, I'd be surprised if the answer to both (ignoring brand preference, which of course plays a huge role in this class) wouldn't have been 3-series.
 
homeforsummer
If I were a new car buyer today and wanted a good sports saloon, I'd buy an Alfa Giulia. If I wanted a good saloon full-stop, I'd buy a C-class. Ask someone the same 5/10/15/20 years ago, I'd be surprised if the answer to both (ignoring brand preference, which of course plays a huge role in this class) wouldn't have been 3-series.
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And yet there's always been buyers that have shunned the 3 series in favour of competing products. 20 years ago the Lexus IS was the next big threat to the 3 series, the Alfa 156 was ticking all the boxes for some people, the Mercedes C Class was being the Mercedes C Class, and the threat from the Audi A4 was becoming more prominent. Did these cars really only sell because of brand preference? Did the 3 series always sell because it was objectively the best? Or, is it simply not as black and white as that - or, more poignantly, as rose tinted as that? I appreciate you opinion will vary, but I've nearly always considered such cars as genuie threats, even if each was only a threat in a specific area.

If Kia is the new threat, so be it... The technological know how at this level isn't the key, it's about cost, profit and revenue, so I doubt BMW is concerned that Kia can make a great car - I'm sure they will be concerned if 3-er customers start migrating in droves.

For about as long as I've been a BMW enthusiast I can recall two things happening, 1. People saying how the new one is better than the old one. 2. People saying how the new one is not as good as the old one. Sometimes journo's are saying one thing, and the BMW community is saying the other, sometimes vice versa. I like that top brass has called it out as bull crap.
 
MatskiMonk
And yet there's always been buyers that have shunned the 3 series in favour of competing products. 20 years ago the Lexus IS was the next big threat to the 3 series, the Alfa 156 was ticking all the boxes for some people, the Mercedes C Class was being the Mercedes C Class, and the threat from the Audi A4 was becoming more prominent. Did these cars really only sell because of brand preference? Did the 3 series always sell because it was objectively the best? Or, is it simply not as black and white as that - or, more poignantly, as rose tinted as that? I appreciate you opinion will vary, but I've nearly always considered such cars as genuie threats, even if each was only a threat in a specific area.
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Yet sales figures, taking the European figures as a sample group, show that less and less people are buying the 3-series, 4-series and X3 variations then they were 15 years ago. The only conclusion can be that they must be buying elsewhere.
 
MatskiMonk
For about as long as I've been a BMW enthusiast I can recall two things happening, 1. People saying how the new one is better than the old one. 2. People saying how the new one is not as good as the old one. Sometimes journo's are saying one thing, and the BMW community is saying the other, sometimes vice versa. I like that top brass has called it out as bull crap.
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Regarding the 3 series...

When the E46 was new, I was all over it. On the website configurator pricing it up in various colors and trim packages. Trying to figure out how I could swing the money to own it. I obsessed over it. When the E90 was new, I wasn't interested. I drove an F30 and kinda hated it (I own an E46).

For me at least, it wasn't that the new one is always better, or the old one is always better. It was that BMW peaked with the E46.
 

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