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I agree, however, what political parties need to understand is that being very appealing to party members is all a bit of a waste of time. You've got their vote no matter what. It's people like me you have to appeal to. I don't have any affinity with any particular party. I've voted for all major political parties at points in my voting life. I vote for which party and which manifesto I think is best for the country at any given time. And that changes depending on the situation the world and country is in. Corbyn does absolutely nothing for me and I'm sure plenty of other floating voters like me feel exactly the same. And it's the floating voters that make the difference and it's those voters that political parties need to go after.
I want to see an effective opposition as that's the only way to hold the government to account. With Corbyn at the helm I don't see Labour being effective and think the Tories will walk the next GE. And if Johnson is at the helm and the Tories walk the next GE I worry very much what that will mean for our country.
It's all such a mess. I don't think anyone seriously believe that we would vote leave and hence not enough thought was put into a leave result. And we end up with the current turmoil. This whole matter has a hell of a long way to run yet and I think any eventuality you can think of is still possible.
I'm not suggesting parties should change their core beliefs based on what the public wants. I'm saying that political parties need to choose their leaders and candidates based on their ability to sell their parties beliefs to the general public.I just don't like the idea of a party changing just for the reason of pleasing the general public or to exist to be strong opposition. What is the point? We may as well not have any parties in the UK, no politics. Just a computer we tell what we want and it does it for us if there is a majority.
If we have a party who has a certain method the membership supports, but with the general public perhaps ambivalent, what should happen is the public don't vote for that party, they vote for another party or an independent. It annoys me when a party gives in to the public and abandons it's own ideals.
It's lazy and weak of both the party and the public. Membership and leader should form what the party is all about, the public should have no say whatsoever. It should be either vote or don't vote.
This way I think we would get more choice, more variety of parties in the UK. It's doesn't matter if there is not a majority government in parliament, I think that is an outdated ambition.
It would certainly seem that the rest of the EU was far, far better prepared for 'Leave' winning the referendum than the 'Leave' campaign itself or the current government was. It puts the country at a massive disadvantage in any negotiations if one side (the remainder of the EU) agrees its stance before the UK can even get around to deciding who will submit Article 50!It's all such a mess. I don't think anyone seriously believe that we would vote leave and hence not enough thought was put into a leave result. And we end up with the current turmoil. This whole matter has a hell of a long way to run yet and I think any eventuality you can think of is still possible.
While I agree with what you are saying in principle, I would disagree that as a party they are not selling the beliefs to the general public (with the caveat that no party will ever appeal to everyone), now while increases in membership numbers and supporter numbers is not a direct link to a wider appeal it could indicate that as a party they are doing something right in that regard (certainly in comparison to recent past with New Labour).I'm not suggesting parties should change their core beliefs based on what the public wants. I'm saying that political parties need to choose their leaders and candidates based on their ability to sell their parties beliefs to the general public.
The only way to get any power is to get elected and the only way to get any real power is to get enough candidates elected to form a government. To do that you have to appeal to a much broader group that just your core supporters. That was my point.
It would certainly seem that the rest of the EU was far, far better prepared for 'Leave' winning the referendum than the 'Leave' campaign itself or the current government was. It puts the country at a massive disadvantage in any negotiations if one side (the remainder of the EU) agrees its stance before the UK can even get around to deciding who will submit Article 50!
While I agree with what you are saying in principle, I would disagree that as a party they are not selling the beliefs to the general public (with the caveat that no party will ever appeal to everyone), now while increases in membership numbers and supporter numbers is not a direct link to a wider appeal it could indicate that as a party they are doing something right in that regard (certainly in comparison to recent past with New Labour).
http://www.theguardian.com/politics...w-jeremy-corbyn-has-reshaped-the-labour-party
It would certainly seem that the rest of the EU was far, far better prepared for 'Leave' winning the referendum than the 'Leave' campaign itself or the current government was. It puts the country at a massive disadvantage in any negotiations if one side (the remainder of the EU) agrees its stance before the UK can even get around to deciding who will submit Article 50!
The other 27 nations of the EU are already in agreement over the core negotiating position, that's a difficult thing to get done, as such it almost certainly is the result of planning.I don,t know about them/EU at being better prepared. Don,t think any of Europe or the world were truly ready.
I think it comes down to one thing: "EU says" "Hey UK accept the four rules of movement or sod off to a single market trading thingy we have. " lol tried to make it a little jokingly as not to upset any leave/remain voters.
Thats how it appears its just a question of see what can be struck from when the article 50 is put forward and negations start on the leave procedure?
Also has not a team been put in place to help the new PM while all the debacle of the leadership of both parties go,s on.
I quite agree that its impossible to know, but I would say its a better position to be in when compared to the hemorrhage of support following Blair and Brown.Good points. However, it's difficult to know how many of those new people joining always have and always will vote Labour. Is it that the new direction Corbyn has taken just instilled a greater sense of belonging to current Labour voters meaning they go out and join the party or are they none labour voters who have been swayed by his leadership? Impossible to answer and although the figures do look big, in the grand scheme of things they are not huge. A bit like the 10,000 new members the Lib Dems have acquired in the 5 days since the referendum, looks like a big headline figure but in reality it's not a big deal.
Rightly or wrongly it's the undecided amongst us who make the difference come GE day. And my point was that political parties need to appeal to these people to get elected.
Boris Johnson will not stand for PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-36570120
Perhaps that guy who said Cameron had checkmated Boris Johnson by passing the buck on triggering Article 50 was right...
The other 27 nations of the EU are already in agreement over the core negotiating position, that's a difficult thing to get done, as such it almost certainly is the result of planning.
Ireland (Republic of) also offered massive tax cuts to US companies, so that's why they moved there....This is one of the reasons so many US companies have moved to Ireland...
It's beginning to look a lot like it.He probably doesn't feel like he can handle the country in it's current state leading more credibility to the angle that he hoped that we voted to stay but fatally wounded Cameron so he could move in and be PM in an easier situation.
Wow, we went through ALL this and he drops out
He probably doesn't feel like he can handle the country in it's current state leading more credibility to the angle that he hoped that we voted to stay but fatally wounded Cameron so he could move in and be PM in an easier situation.
Basically he want's someone else to handle the storm, pretty insulting really seeing as he in essence made all this happen.
It's beginning to look a lot like it.
Either way, BJ's political career has taken a massive blow.
I think its more Gove standing and saying that BOJO couldn,t handle it that he stood down, But hey I could be wrong. lol You know the media and such like?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36671336
Good points. However, it's difficult to know how many of those new people joining always have and always will vote Labour.
Rightly or wrongly it's the undecided amongst us who make the difference come GE day. And my point was that political parties need to appeal to these people to get elected.
It's beginning to look a lot like it.
Either way, BJ's political career has taken a massive blow.
Sad. Epic entertainment possibilities gone, just like that.Boris Johnson will not stand for PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-36570120
Perhaps that guy who said Cameron had checkmated Boris Johnson by passing the buck on triggering Article 50 was right...
Sad. Epic entertainment possibilities gone, just like that.
Sad. Epic entertainment possibilities gone, just like that.
He's pulled out because he knew he couldn't win the leadership race once Gove threw his hat into the ring.Wow, we went through ALL this and he drops out
He probably doesn't feel like he can handle the country in it's current state leading more credibility to the angle that he hoped that we voted to stay but fatally wounded Cameron so he could move in and be PM in an easier situation.
Basically he want's someone else to handle the storm, pretty insulting really seeing as he in essence made all this happen.
Boris is not that easily deterred with anything, if he really had the political ambition he wouldn't let one person questioning his competence stop him from running. People have been critical of him for years including in being mayor and he still ran twice.
He's pulled out because he knew he couldn't win the leadership race once Gove threw his hat into the ring.
I really don't read it like that. Up until Gove launched his own bid Johnson was still in the running, still the favorite. Murdoch throwing his hat in with Gove yesterday was a huge turning point. Which says an awful lot about politics in this country.I think the Conservatives will keep him 'for another day', they'll offer a lamb to the slaughter or at least someone who's expendable, and save their big guns for later.
And perhaps the whole EU is capsizing. Pity, just as it was assembling an army for war.Wow, this is quite the development.
It's as though none of them truly wanted the UK to vote Leave, they just wanted to rock the boat a little. Well guess what? Thanks to your mutiny the boat isn't just rocking, it's capsizing.
Gove might make him deputy PM. I don't know if Boris would tolerate that though.
I really don't read it like that. Up until Gove launched his own bid Johnson was still in the running, still the favorite. Murdoch throwing his hat in with Gove yesterday was a huge turning point. Which says an awful lot about politics in this country.
It's as though none of them truly wanted the UK to vote Leave, they just wanted to rock the boat a little.
Either way, BJ's political career has taken a massive blow.
Oh it most surely is.If it wasn't for the feeling that Britain's going to hell in a handcart this would be one of the most fascinating political periods in living memory.