Brexit - The UK leaves the EU

Deal or No Deal?

  • Voted Leave - May's Deal

  • Voted Leave - No Deal

  • Voted Leave - Second Referendum

  • Did not vote/abstained - May's Deal

  • Did not vote/abstained - No Deal

  • Did not vote/abstained - Second Referendum

  • Voted Remain - May's Deal

  • Voted Remain - No Deal

  • Voted Remain - Second Referendum

Results are only viewable after voting.
Fgame
It is my paper and it fits my liberal views to some degree, but I have been very disappointed by the propaganda they have spammed out regarding the EU. And also the fixation on economy in a certain restricted area.
I am also against this parliamentary attack on Corbyn, and wonder where it is coming from and why. I will be voting for him to remain leader of the Labour party (hopefully he will be automatically a candidate).
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It's a fairly left-wing paper so it's only ever going to have one position on the EU. Propaganda? Possibly, but far less so than any of the red-tops were covering Leave.

As for Corbyn, I'm yet to be convinced. As a popular personality, he's hard to fault, even if it's via being a kind of anti-Farage - a resolute socialist, non-car owning teetotal veggie, which is bound to attract some support, just as Farage's beer-swilling, pro-gun, anti-immigration stance has clearly proven popular with the UKIP lot.

Really all that shows is that both are adept at exploiting the public's ennui with centrist parties.
 
The public need to have their voice. That is what is worrying me at the moment, persons, organisations, businesses, establishments and politicians not trusting that people have the ability or right to make their own minds up about things.
It's shameful. Maybe I am too optimistic about the general public voting on things, but after the referendum it looks about right, a nice almost even balance between one thing and another.
I am left-wing if you like, and don't know why that is directly linked to being part of the EU.
 
Fgame
I said their behaviour was a mistake, they have had a delusional sense of righteousness. They refuse to accept the choice of the country, they are discovering what democracy means, and they don't like it.
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That's a telling comment - you're choosing their country for them. Not all countries voted to leave, some voted to remain. The only "single country" that the Leave vote applied to in entirety is the arbitrary "United Kingdom". I've never identified as part of that "country", I've always preferred being a European citizen or English.

Am I demonstrating "a delusional sense of righteousness" if I prefer to self determine which arbitrary group of countries best represents my citizenship? I'm English, an inhabitant of the only four countries of the imposed "Union" that isn't represented by its own parliament.
 
Fgame
I am left-wing if you like, and don't know why that is directly linked to being part of the EU.
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It isn't directly correlated, but the EU's policies of egalitarianism, social security, environmentalism and fair trade (among others) are more closely linked to left-wing politics than they are right-wing politics. A left-wing paper like the Grauniad is naturally more likely to support EU membership.
 
TenEightyOne
That's a telling comment - you're choosing their country for them. Not all countries voted to leave, some voted to remain. The only "single country" that the Leave vote applied to in entirety is the arbitrary "United Kingdom". I've never identified as part of that "country", I've always preferred being a European citizen or English.

Am I demonstrating "a delusional sense of righteousness" if I prefer to self determine which arbitrary group of countries best represents my citizenship? I'm English, an inhabitant of the only four countries of the imposed "Union" that isn't represented by its own parliament.
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I didn't choose the country for them/me, it is what it is. The referendum was conducted in "our" country of legislation. The country chose to leave.
We are still European "citizens" (technically there are no citizens) even if we leave the EU though aren't we. Europe is a region/continent including UK.
I would support referendums of independence for Scotland/Wales/NI/Cornwall. I would vote for independence for all of them, where possible.
I still think you are confusing my criticism, it's not about the choice of voting or where you want to be, but the behaviour and conduct of some groups. I have a respectful disagreement with reasonable remain voters.


Added info- official definition-
United Kingdom:
A country of western Europe consisting of England, Wales, Scotland, and Northern Ireland.
 
Fgame
Added info- official definition-
United Kingdom:
A country of western Europe consisting of England, Wales, Scotland, and Northern Ireland.
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Your source sucks; the United Kingdom is a Sovereign State. I don't recognise the sovereign, I identify as English rather than as a regnal subject.

Fgame
The referendum was conducted in "our" country of legislation.
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There is no "country of legislation" for me, I live in England. The Westminster parliament covers four separate countries unlike the Northern Irish, Scottish and Welsh parliaments.

Fgame
The country chose to leave.
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Scotland and Northern Ireland didn't, Wales and England did. They're different countries.

Fgame
We are still European "citizens" (technically there are no citizens) even if we leave the EU though aren't we.
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Technically there are citizens, you should look more closely at your passport and at the privileges of your EU citizenship. Living alongside the landmass will confer no more rights on us than living next door to McDonalds gives us free food.

Fgame
I would support referendums of independence for Scotland/Wales/NI/Cornwall.
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But not England or East Yorkshire, the two very best bits of all. Fact :D

Fgame
I still think you are confusing my criticism, it's not about the choice of voting or where you want to be, but the behaviour and conduct of some groups. I have a respectful disagreement with reasonable remain voters.
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If indeed that was your criticism then I concur.
 


Youth not so apathetic as first thought. Still on the low side though, but for the 18-50. This group could've made a difference easily.
 
TenEightyOne
Your source sucks; the United Kingdom is a Sovereign State. I don't recognise the sovereign, I identify as English rather than as a regnal subject.



There is no "country of legislation" for me, I live in England. The Westminster parliament covers four separate countries unlike the Northern Irish, Scottish and Welsh parliaments.



Scotland and Northern Ireland didn't, Wales and England did. They're different countries.



Technically there are citizens, you should look more closely at your passport and at the privileges of your EU citizenship. Living alongside the landmass will confer no more rights on us than living next door to McDonalds gives us free food.



But not England or East Yorkshire, the two very best bits of all. Fact :D



If indeed that was your criticism then I concur.
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You said European citizen, not EU citizen, they are completely different things.
My source for the country of UK is the Oxford English Dictionary. It's a good read.
 
Fgame
You said European citizen, not EU citizen, they are completely different things.
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Fair point. However, this vote doesn't remove the idea of European citizenship, world citizenship, the citizenship of whatever group one feels arbitrarily part of. The vote does remove the actual, real EU citizenship from us.

Fgame
My source for the country of UK is the Oxford English Dictionary. It's a good read.
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Odd, it looked like the Oxford Dictionary to me.
 
TenEightyOne
Odd, it looked like the Oxford Dictionary to me.
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Ah yes just the Oxford Dictionary, from the same University Press.
The OED says the single "Kingdom", which is Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
But I think we maybe digressing, I meant "we all" voted and the result was leave.
You identify as English, but everyone voted.
I'm not sure what your point leads to as if you separate England from the vote, it voted leave. If you mean Scotland should be able to be in the EU then I agree, as they voted in majority to stay. But they first need to be independent, they cant stay in the EU, they must leave with UK, as they voted to be part of the UK not long ago. If they eventually choose independence they can apply to join the EU.
 
Fgame
The "old man" said more old people voted Remain than young people did. Which represents the low turn out of the young. I find his points were largely valid, though I didn't agree with his method of name calling such as "cry babies" ,I think that severely damaged his argument. Your point is damaged too by calling him a derogatory name, just for the sake of it.
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Didn't see this before so I'll address it now.

I agree that he had some valid points and that those points were damaged by being condescending about young voters. He cannot be taken seriously if his points use the same logic as those he criticises.

I disagree that my own point was diminished by calling him a hypocritical tit and it certainly wasn't for the sake of it; it's entirely accurate and based on the evidence presented in the video. He eschews potentially valid arguments in favour of self-importance, self-satisfaction and hypocrisy. Which makes him a tit.

Had he simply said that young voter turnout was low in comparison to older voter turnout that would have been fine; instead he implied that older voters are more intelligent and younger ones are being selfish and shallow just because they're annoyed at the result.
 
homeforsummer
Guessing the decision to invoke Article 50 won't be happening any time soon then. Leadsom would have probably done it straight away, May probably won't.
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I guess all things will happen in good time. Many things to sort before the article 50 gets put forward.
 
May is probably the worst person to have as Prime Minister at the moment, as she represents and supports everything that the EU Referendum was about, and we as a nation voted against. She loves the ECHR, supports uncapped immigration, and wants to introduce Sharia law as part of UK law. If anything, she supports the erosion of tradition British views for a more Blairite-style segregated and exclusive society.
 
homeforsummer
I'm less convinced. May, a Remain supporter, will be in no great rush to invoke Article 50 when she becomes PM. Leaving things longer is broadly just an excuse for not making the notification and increases the possibility it won't happen at all.
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Oh yes am still thinking that the government will do whatever they like regardless of public votes.
Thats the way its always been in my opinion. Until Article 50 gets put forward I will still belief the leave voters haven,t won yet. :sly:

EDIT:
I will add that if things don,t quite go to plan regarding the leave-vote/article 50 it may be possible that the conservatives could end up with a situation like what is happening right now with the labour party?
Don,t forget that there were leave campaigners running against her, So am pretty sure that some MPs will be aware of the future regarding a lot of things?

Posted one hour ago.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36764525
 
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S_Bridge
Really?
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Sorry, I got a bit carried away, but a direct quote:

She insisted that many British people “benefit a great deal” from the guidance offered by Sharia teaching
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S_Bridge
What are they?
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They were respect, support and inclusion of all people. Now it seems that towns and cities have been divided up into ghettos and areas which are not tolerant (as a collective, individuals I'm sure are not directly responsible) of those who are the 'wrong' ethnicity, teachings which directly create a subservient attitude towards women.

Can you honestly tell me that you have not noticed a change in society within the last 20 years to one which is led by fear - of other people, of anything unusual? When we have inclusion, it is a forced action rather than being a natural flow of people and ideas.
 
DG_Silva
Can you honestly tell me that you have not noticed a change in society within the last 20 years to one which is led by fear - of other people, of anything unusual?
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I can honestly tell you that I haven't noticed a change like that. Possibly a change the other way even.
That's just my own anecdotal take on your question of course & doesn't really add anything to what tradition(al) British views are, or whether they exist.

DG_Silva
When we have inclusion, it is a forced action rather than being a natural flow of people and ideas.
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I don't think I'd agree with that. Again though, that's just based on my own anecdotal experiences.
 
I don't think governments impose ghettoisation upon people as much as societies do. It's not really something you can blame on Theresa May.
 
S_Bridge
That's just my own anecdotal take on your question of course & doesn't really add anything to what tradition(al) British views are, or whether they exist.
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Every British person will have a different view on what is or is not tradition.

John Major
Fifty years on from now, Britain will still be the country of long shadows on cricket grounds, warm beer, invincible green suburbs, dog lovers and pools fillers and, as George Orwell said, 'Old maids bicycling to holy communion through the morning mist' and, if we get our way, Shakespeare will still be read even in school.
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Now, in fairness to him John Major did grow up in Brixton but I bet there are a lot of people in dodgy council estates with sofas in the front garden, beer cans in the hallway and a desperate wait for Ladbrokes to open who might not agree with him there.
 
Theresa May will be become Prime Minister on Wednesday... boy that moved along quickly!

Will be interesting to hear her plan moving forward, I don't think she will trigger Article 50 right away but if the EU has stated they will not negotiate without it triggered I don't see what can really be done in the meantime.

Markets have reacted well to her appointment, the Pound has climbed back up slightly. Andrea Leadsom really shot herself in the foot with that whole being a parent comment, wasn't really a way back from that after it all blew up.
 
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DG_Silva
When we have inclusion, it is a forced action rather than being a natural flow of people and ideas.
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What? I really don't recognise the picture of Britain that you're painting there. The only place I could believe it feels "forced" is around London, but then I find that the most unwelcoming region on earth.
 
UKMikey
Cosmetics firm Lush is moving most of its business to Germany following the Brexit result. The article says no jobs will be lost in the UK but any expansion the firm undergoes will benefit Germans, not Britons.

http://metro.co.uk/2016/07/10/lush-cosmetics-moves-to-germany-because-of-brexit-5998494/
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I remember seeing a documentary about them, they invented the bath bomb. I wonder moving most of the business to Germany will affect the brands appeal as many of these types of companies trade on the 'Britishness' of their products which is an important factor when selling abroad, particularly in Asia.
 
Robin.
I remember seeing a documentary about them, they invented the bath bomb. I wonder moving most of the business to Germany will affect the brands appeal as many of these types of companies trade on the 'Britishness' of their products which is an important factor when selling abroad, particularly in Asia.
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Probably not much, all the girls I know that buy from lush do so because of the companies "ethical" approach to things. Veganism and all that stuff. They're also the kind of girls who probably voted Remain because they want to be more European.

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I have to say, it's this kind of long term investment stuff I've been worrying about.
 
Robin.
I wonder moving most of the business to Germany will affect the brands appeal as many of these types of companies trade on the 'Britishness' of their products which is an important factor when selling abroad, particularly in Asia.
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I doubt it, that's down to the advertising rather than people scrutinising the "Made In..." text. For a significant part of Britain's chem industry the downhill slide began when the businesses were returned to German ownership.

MatskiMonk
They're also the kind of girls who probably voted Remain because they want to be more European.
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They already were EU citizens... and what's bad about wanting to be more European? The food's better for sure :D

Remember that the other side of the coin is "be more British", that's hardly definable as it is and, if recent events are anything to go by, not something that's as popular as it could be. I'm sure people would say that they have more in common with some Europeans than some "British" people, even within Britain's regions-in-countries.
 
TenEightyOne
What? I really don't recognise the picture of Britain that you're painting there. The only place I could believe it feels "forced" is around London, but then I find that the most unwelcoming region on earth.
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S_Bridge
I don't think I'd agree with that. Again though, that's just based on my own anecdotal experiences.
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This is pretty much it. Everybody's personal experience is different, and possibly if you move out of major cities (I live in Birmingham), the segregation is marginal, but in my personal opinion it is a matter of time before this effect is felt further afield.

Perhaps I have miss-aimed my comments about her, and a bit more research have shown this to be true, so I apologise for this comment. However I do stand by my feelings that this country is not what is was.
 

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