Brexit - The UK leaves the EU

Deal or No Deal?

  • Voted Leave - May's Deal

  • Voted Leave - No Deal

  • Voted Leave - Second Referendum

  • Did not vote/abstained - May's Deal

  • Did not vote/abstained - No Deal

  • Did not vote/abstained - Second Referendum

  • Voted Remain - May's Deal

  • Voted Remain - No Deal

  • Voted Remain - Second Referendum

Results are only viewable after voting.
TenEightyOne
Given that he also mentions the British Empire and 'the dole' I like to think that @Dotini was just speaking in Old Modern English and that we can extrapolate all of his terms to a period some fifty years later than he invoked :)
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Yes, I was speaking in antiquated terms deliberately, so that my audience could easily laugh it off as the maundering of a daft old man; to be less threatening. But at the same time, I intended to convey a more serious memetic you already suspect. What else is the British Empire but its people? It's you. As men are in trouble, then women are also, just not in the same way and potentially much worse.
 
baldgye
Weird isn't it... almost like those wings can form a circle
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It is but the last chance of someone seeing sense is gone. It's either hard Brexit or 2nd class citizen saying yes sir! No sir! to our new lords and masters the EU.
 
Tired Tyres
It is but the last chance of someone seeing sense is gone. It's either hard Brexit or 2nd class citizen saying yes sir! No sir! to our new lords and masters the EU.
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I think it's more than clear at this point that it's no deal or no deal...

The only hope we have is if the government collapses, but the millionaire Brexiters would benefit from No Deal as they can snap up restate for **** all... Labour refuse to be in opposition and Corybn's stance makes it so the only option for their ministers and members would be another leader vote, which I'm sure we remember how well that went last time...

I just hope I get to keep my job in the ensuing economic apocalypse
 
baldgye
I think it's more than clear at this point that it's no deal or no deal...

The only hope we have is if the government collapses, but the millionaire Brexiters would benefit from No Deal as they can snap up restate for **** all... Labour refuse to be in opposition and Corybn's stance makes it so the only option for their ministers and members would be another leader vote, which I'm sure we remember how well that went last time...

I just hope I get to keep my job in the ensuing economic apocalypse
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Do millionaire and billionaire Remainers also benefit if Remain is back on the table or are all the millionaires and billionaires only on one side of the equation? What is restate by the way?
 
baldgye
Real-estate*
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So do millionaire and billionaire Remainers also benefit if Remain is back on the table or are all the millionaires and billionaires only on one side of the equation?
 
Johnnypenso
So do millionaire and billionaire Remainers also benefit if Remain is back on the table or are all the millionaires and billionaires only on one side of the equation?
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Yes, in that the country wouldn't be economically devastated (assuming a no-deal).
 
Tired Tyres
Time to get a passport from another country. Any recomendations. Not Italy though. I'd get very fat very quickly.
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Italy is where I’m probably headed due to my fiancé.
But I really REALLY like Luxembourg, if I could afford it/had a job opportunity there I’d move today. I’m told Berlin is also really nice to live in.
 
baldgye
Italy is where I’m probably headed due to my fiancé.
But I really REALLY like Luxembourg, if I could afford it/had a job opportunity there I’d move today. I’m told Berlin is also really nice to live in.
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You might try Seattle. Most liberal city in the universe, and you'll grow fat on money if you get a job at Amazon.
 
Dotini
You might try Seattle. Most liberal city in the universe, and you'll grow fat on money if you get a job at Amazon.
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I don’t think I would suit American culture.

I also don’t think much of the American education or health systems.
 
We need to ensure we have enough food if there is no deal.

I remember a time when Leaving put us in the driving seat, gave us the power and the EU would never allow us to leave without a deal, you'know because of all the cars Germany sells in the UK. I remember a time when there wasn't a downside to leaving, only an upside. I remember when the only negatives of leaving would be the slight devaluation of the pound, but it would be worth it in the end. I remember a time when I was laughed at for suggesting the economy would be devastated by leaving.
 
I wouldn't be too unnerved about the prospect of a No Deal - while it currently appears to be the only way forward for Brexit, that is mainly a result of both sides refusing to compromise thus far - but I don't believe that will (or can) continue. The fact is that No Deal has to be an option for the UK otherwise we have nothing to bargain with - it is the nuclear option, but its sole purpose is to ensure that the EU don't get everything their way.

The EU have thus far adopted the view that Brexit will not benefit the EU in any way and thus scuppering it makes total sense. Certain member states also seem insistent that Britain must not gain from Brexit either - this latter demand is frankly unreasonable, especially if it entails permanently disadvantaging the UK relative to the EU.

The prospect of No Deal, however, calls the EU's bluff - when it comes to cutting off one's nose to spite one's face, two can play at that game. No Deal would be enormously damaging to the UK, but it also poses a massive threat to various EU member states, not least Ireland. The difference is that the UK's mess will be its own, while the EU can ill afford the prospect of yet another economic disaster zone on its books.

I think common sense will, eventually, prevail.
 
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Touring Mars
I wouldn't be too unnerved about the prospect of a No Deal - while it appears to be the only way forward for Brexit, that is mainly a result of both sides refusing to compromise thus far - but I don't believe that will (or can) continue. The fact is that No Deal has to be an option for the UK otherwise we have nothing to bargain with - it is the nuclear option, but it's sole purpose is to ensure that the EU don't get everything their way.
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Ah yes, the cutting of ones nose to spite ones self, the best way to bargain.

Touring Mars
Certain member states also seem insistent that Britain must not gain from Brexit either - this latter demand is frankly unreasonable, especially if it entails permanently disadvantaging the UK relative to the EU.
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Weird, it's almost like, the EU is a political entity... who could have foreseen!?

Touring Mars
The prospect of No Deal, however, calls the EU's bluff - when it comes to cutting off one's nose to spite one's face, two can play at that game. No Deal would be enormously damaging to the UK, but it also poses a massive threat to various EU member states, not least Ireland. The difference is that the UK's mess will be its own, while the EU can ill afford the prospect of yet another economic disaster zone on its books.
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Oh ok, so it isn't just, as I we both said "cutting off ones nose..." so much as it is "I'm going to slit my wrists to ruin your evening and force you have to drive me to the hospital" ?

Brilliant, let's hope we don't loose too much blood in the process and the scars heal.

Touring Mars
I think common sense will, eventually, prevail.
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Why would it prevail now, it hasn't dared showed it's head in the last 3 years!
 
baldgye
Why would it prevail now, it hasn't dared showed it's head in the last 3 years!
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Because it basically has to.

The EU may not have much to gain from Brexit, but it certainly has a lot to lose. Ireland is understandably very nervous about a No Deal scenario and seem much more willing than some others (e.g. France) to countenance some form of new customs union plan to resolve the stand-off regarding the Irish border issue.

It is a high stakes gamble and I would not like to see what happens if it doesn't pay off - but while it is concerning to be on the UK side of the equation, one needs to look at the current state of the EU's affairs in a wider sense to appreciate that a botched Brexit is just making a (largely unnecessary) rod for their own back. It is one thing for the EU to 'punish' an exiting member, it is quite another for it to be willing to deliberately cripple the economy of one of their own members just to prove a point.

Frankly, the EU already have much bigger fish to fry than worrying about how much better or worse off a former member might be - it has more than enough very large problems to address.
 
Touring Mars
Because it basically has to.

The EU may not have much to gain from Brexit, but it certainly has a lot to lose. Ireland is understandably very nervous about a No Deal scenario and seem much more willing than some others (e.g. France) to countenance some form of new customs union plan to resolve the stand-off regarding the Irish border issue.

It is a high stakes gamble and I would not like to see what happens if it doesn't pay off - but while it is concerning to be on the UK side of the equation, one needs to look at the current state of the EU's affairs in a wider sense to appreciate that a botched Brexit is just making a (largely unnecessary) rod for their own back. It is one thing for the EU to 'punish' an exiting member, it is quite another for it to be willing to deliberately cripple the economy of one of their own members just to prove a point.

Frankly, the EU already have much bigger fish to fry than worrying about how much better or worse off a former member might be - it has more than enough very large problems to address.
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Personally, if I was the EU, I'd see the game slightly differently.
Yes all sides will be hurt from a No Deal, but temporary measures can be enforced in NI to prevent war, which is the actual real concern. Further to that, showing that if you leave the EU you'll be worse off, sends a strong message. I read (but can't find) that the Italian polls for leaving the EU swung out of being in-favour since Brexit has gone so poorly (citation needed). Not only that, but after a No-Deal the EU would be in a very strong position to offer UK back into the EU after a couple of years, with the proviso being that we adopt the Euro and we loose any veto status we have/had. If I was the EU, this would be my goal, shore up the Euro off the back of another country with a history of a strong economy.

While the EU will loose out on a no-deal, it will not be the biggest looser and in the short term can gut us for temporary trade deals on food etc... all the while building to the long term gain.

But I'm far more pessimistic about this cluster **** than you are :lol:
 
Touring Mars
Because it basically has to.

The EU may not have much to gain from Brexit, but it certainly has a lot to lose. Ireland is understandably very nervous about a No Deal scenario and seem much more willing than some others (e.g. France) to countenance some form of new customs union plan to resolve the stand-off regarding the Irish border issue.

It is a high stakes gamble and I would not like to see what happens if it doesn't pay off - but while it is concerning to be on the UK side of the equation, one needs to look at the current state of the EU's affairs in a wider sense to appreciate that a botched Brexit is just making a (largely unnecessary) rod for their own back. It is one thing for the EU to 'punish' an exiting member, it is quite another for it to be willing to deliberately cripple the economy of one of their own members just to prove a point.

Frankly, the EU already have much bigger fish to fry than worrying about how much better or worse off a former member might be - it has more than enough very large problems to address.
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To be honest, if I was in charge I'd say the deal must be the same as full membership but in exchange for losing our voice at the table we must have two things in return. 1. Exemption from freedom of movement and 2. The right to negotiate our own trade deals outside the EU.

Totally unpractical BUT, if you know the other side has no intention of reaching a deal we will hard exit. In that event the deal on the table may be accepted as a last ditch attempt to salvage the situation, we'd end up with the deal presented. Stranger things have happened.
 
baldgye
Personally, if I was the EU, I'd see the game slightly differently.

Yes all sides will be hurt from a No Deal, but temporary measures can be enforced in NI to prevent war, which is the actual real concern. Further to that, showing that if you leave the EU you'll be worse off, sends a strong message. I read (but can't find) that the Italian polls for leaving the EU swung out of being in-favour since Brexit has gone so poorly (citation needed). Not only that, but after a No-Deal the EU would be in a very strong position to offer UK back into the EU after a couple of years, with the proviso being that we adopt the Euro and we loose any veto status we have/had. If I was the EU, this would be my goal, shore up the Euro off the back of another country with a history of a strong economy.

While the EU will loose out on a no-deal, it will not be the biggest looser and in the short term can gut us for temporary trade deals on food etc... all the while building to the long term gain.

But I'm far more pessimistic about this cluster **** than you are :lol:
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This is why Ireland is something of a special case - the EU stand to gain absolutely nothing by making life harder for an existing member state. Ireland is about as an enthusiastic EU member state as it is possible to be - but they are uniquely placed as the only EU member state whose economy will be badly affected by a No Deal outcome, or the imposition of permanent trade barriers with the UK. Ironically, while the UK will be free to access new markets on its own terms, Ireland will not be able to by virtue of its continued EU membership. While some EU leaders may wish for Brexit to fail or to make an example of the UK, they should also be bearing in mind the consequences of an existing member state hitting the skids due to a failure to strike a workable deal.
 

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