Can PD let us race some actually relevant cars?

  • Thread starter Natalie_GT
  • 32 comments
  • 2,155 views

Do you think Group S and Group C are a good idea?

  • Yes!

  • No!


Results are only viewable after voting.
231
Argentina
Buenos Aires, Argentina
We all know that the people at PD are innovators, visionaries, onlookers into the future. They've blessed us with very cool Vision GT cars, but above all, have filled the void in Gran Turismo Sport with their own very creative takes on cars which do not exist in actual racing series (such as the Hyundai Genesis Gr.3 / Gr.4, the Peugeot RCZ Gr.3 / Gr.4 -which is the best car ever made-, or the Alfa Romeo 4C Gr.3 / Gr.4). But I do believe that there is something lacking, something that Gran Turismo totally needs to do in order to get up with the times.

Since GT Sport's release date, we've had very few (as far as I remember) updates for it's Gr.3 and 4 car list - aside from the Supra Gr.4 which was a prize for taking a survey which cannot be done anymore so the car is basically unobtainable. Really good job there by PD, as always, as well as cars which hark back to the past instead of to the future, like the DBR9 and the F1 GTR -. Which means that there was one manufacturer which was completely left out from Gr.3 competition, Bugatti... but it seems like PD have made it their mission to never add a Veyron or Chiron Gr.3.

I am unsure why this is the case. It could perhaps be that Bugatti themselves didn't want PD to touch their masterpiece of a ~truck~ car, but who knows. But this got me thinking about a new racing class. Something up with the times, something that no manufacturer can possibly escape from having to have in their lineup of cars, at least once. Do you know what are the 6th, 5th and 4th best-selling cars in America aside from pickup trucks? The Toyota RAV-4, the Honda CR-V and the Nissan Rogue.

Why couldn't these have their own series? :)

I find it a completely plausible and amazing idea that PD should implement, as not only does it give them full creative control seeing as how these beautiful designs do not have racing counterparts, but also the fact that there is so much to choose from. You have super SUV's which would put sports cars to shame, like the Urus; generic daily drivers like the aforementioned Rogue; amazingly named electric SUVs such as the Mustang mach-e; and you can also throw the Model X in there. Because why not? This would really shake up the formula and perhaps bring some new and interesting racing to the table. I'd certainly prefer to drive a racing Aston Martin DB-X than an anemic Gr.4 Porsche that can't go faster than a snail eating ice cream on it's best days. Plus, it would give the Manufacturer's Cup a much needed new flavor!

I've thought of the name and initial roster of SUV's and crossovers that should integrate this category, as well as a basic idea for what the BOP should be like. If you have any suggestions, you should drop them in a reply!
----------------------------------------------------------------

Group S, here we go!
-Roster:

-Alfa Romeo Stelvio Quadrifoglio Gr. S / BOP: Power-Focused (Top Speed)
-Aston Martin DBX Gr. S / BOP: Balanced
-Audi Q7 S-line Gr. S / BOP: Handling-Focused
-Bentley Bentayga Gr. S / BOP: Power-Focused (Top Speed)
-BMW X6 M Gr. S / BOP: Balanced
-Bugatti Spartacus Gr. S / BOP: Power-Focused (Top Speed)
-Chevrolet Suburban Gr. S / BOP: Handling-Focused
-Citroen C5 Aircross Gr. S / BOP: Power-Focused (Top Speed)
-Dodge Durango SRT Gr. S / BOP: Handling-Focused
-Ferrari Purosangue Gr. S / BOP: Balanced
-Ford Mustang Mach-e Gr. S / BOP: Power-Focused (Acceleration)
-Honda Passport Gr. S / BOP: Balanced
-Hyundai Palisade N Gr. S / BOP: Balanced
-Jaguar i-pace Gr. S / BOP: Power-Focused (Acceleration)
-Lamborghini Urus Gr. S / BOP: Power-Focused (Top Speed)
-Lexus RX 450 H Gr. S / BOP: Balanced
-Mazda CX-9 Gr. S / BOP: Handling-Focused
-McLaren... hey, they don't have an SUV - they are not up with the times. That's okay. PD can just make one up. I'd say this would be handling-focused.
-Mercedes-Benz G63 AMG Gr. S / BOP: Balanced
-Mitsubishi Outlander Gr. S / BOP: Handling-Focused
-Nissan Rogue Gr. S / BOP: Power-Focused (Top Speed)
-Peugeot 3008 Gr. S / BOP: Power-Focused (Acceleration)
-Porsche Cayenne GTS Gr. S / BOP: Balanced
-Renault Koleos Gr. S / BOP: Balanced
-Subaru Forester Gr. S / BOP: Handling-Focused
-Toyota Highlander Gr. S / BOP: Balanced
-Volkswagen Tiguan R Gr. S / BOP: Power-Focused (Top Speed)

----------------------------------------------------------------
But hey, why stop there.
If we're getting on with the times, we should be doing it correctly and add yet another class to the game.
As PD in their ever-lovable wisdom refuse to separate Group C cars from the Gr. 1 class, why not use that naming opportunity in a more forward-looking fashion?
Introducing the Crossover group! This would be slightly smaller and not taken into account for Manufacturers, given as how many of these carmakers don't have crossovers. What a shame.
----------------------------------------------------------------

Group C, here we go!
-Roster:

-Audi Q3 Gr. C / BOP: Handling-Focused
-BMW X1 s-drive Gr. C / BOP: Balanced
-Chevrolet Groove Gr. C / BOP: Balanced
-Citroen C4 Gr. C / BOP: Handling-Focused
-Dodge Journey Gr. C / BOP: Power-Focused (Top Speed)
-Ford Ka+ Active Gr. C / BOP: Power-Focused (Acceleration)
-Honda CR-V Gr. C / BOP: Balanced
-Hyundai Kona Gr. C / BOP: Handling-Focused
-Jaguar e-pace Gr. C / BOP: Power-Focused (Acceleration)
-Lexus RX 350L Gr. C / BOP: Balanced
-Mazda CX-3 Gr. C / BOP: Handling-Focused
-Mercedes-Benz GLE Coupé Gr. C / BOP: Power-Focused (Top Speed)
-Mitsubishi Eclipse Cross Gr. C / BOP: Handling-Focused
-Nissan Ariya Gr. C / BOP: Power-Focused (Acceleration)
-Peugeot 2008 Gr. C / BOP: Handling-Focused
-Renault Captur Gr. C / BOP: Balanced
-Subaru Crosstrek Gr. C / BOP: Balanced
-Toyota RAV4 Gr. C / BOP: Power-Focused (Top Speed)
-Volkswagen T-Cross Gr. C / BOP: Handling-Focused
-Tesla Model X Gr. C / BOP: Power-Focused (Acceleration)

----------------------------------------------------------------

What are your takes on this idea? Vote now! :D
and keep opinions civilized!
 
1,225
Ireland
Ireland
Racerx_34
We all know that the people at PD are innovators, visionaries, onlookers into the future. They've blessed us with very cool Vision GT cars, but above all, have filled the void in Gran Turismo Sport with their own very creative takes on cars which do not exist in actual racing series (such as the Hyundai Genesis Gr.3 / Gr.4, the Peugeot RCZ Gr.3 / Gr.4 -which is the best car ever made-, or the Alfa Romeo 4C Gr.3 / Gr.4). But I do believe that there is something lacking, something that Gran Turismo totally needs to do in order to get up with the times.

Since GT Sport's release date, we've had very few (as far as I remember) updates for it's Gr.3 and 4 car list - aside from the Supra Gr.4 which was a prize for taking a survey which cannot be done anymore so the car is basically unobtainable. Really good job there by PD, as always, as well as cars which hark back to the past instead of to the future, like the DBR9 and the F1 GTR -. Which means that there was one manufacturer which was completely left out from Gr.3 competition, Bugatti... but it seems like PD have made it their mission to never add a Veyron or Chiron Gr.3.

I am unsure why this is the case. It could perhaps be that Bugatti themselves didn't want PD to touch their masterpiece of a ~truck~ car, but who knows. But this got me thinking about a new racing class. Something up with the times, something that no manufacturer can possibly escape from having to have in their lineup of cars, at least once. Do you know what are the 6th, 5th and 4th best-selling cars in America aside from pickup trucks? The Toyota RAV-4, the Honda CR-V and the Nissan Rogue.

Why couldn't these have their own series? :)

I find it a completely plausible and amazing idea that PD should implement, as not only does it give them full creative control seeing as how these beautiful designs do not have racing counterparts, but also the fact that there is so much to choose from. You have super SUV's which would put sports cars to shame, like the Urus; generic daily drivers like the aforementioned Rogue; amazingly named electric SUVs such as the Mustang mach-e; and you can also throw the Model X in there. Because why not? This would really shake up the formula and perhaps bring some new and interesting racing to the table. I'd certainly prefer to drive a racing Aston Martin DB-X than an anemic Gr.4 Porsche that can't go faster than a snail eating ice cream on it's best days. Plus, it would give the Manufacturer's Cup a much needed new flavor!

I've thought of the name and initial roster of SUV's and crossovers that should integrate this category, as well as a basic idea for what the BOP should be like. If you have any suggestions, you should drop them in a reply!
----------------------------------------------------------------

Group S, here we go!
-Roster:

-Alfa Romeo Stelvio Quadrifoglio Gr. S / BOP: Power-Focused (Top Speed)
-Aston Martin DBX Gr. S / BOP: Balanced
-Audi Q7 S-line Gr. S / BOP: Handling-Focused
-Bentley Bentayga Gr. S / BOP: Power-Focused (Top Speed)
-BMW X6 M Gr. S / BOP: Balanced
-Bugatti Spartacus Gr. S / BOP: Power-Focused (Top Speed)
-Chevrolet Suburban Gr. S / BOP: Handling-Focused
-Citroen C5 Aircross Gr. S / BOP: Power-Focused (Top Speed)
-Dodge Durango SRT Gr. S / BOP: Handling-Focused
-Ferrari Purosangue Gr. S / BOP: Balanced
-Ford Mustang Mach-e Gr. S / BOP: Power-Focused (Acceleration)
-Honda Passport Gr. S / BOP: Balanced
-Hyundai Palisade N Gr. S / BOP: Balanced
-Jaguar i-pace Gr. S / BOP: Power-Focused (Acceleration)
-Lamborghini Urus Gr. S / BOP: Power-Focused (Top Speed)
-Lexus RX 450 H Gr. S / BOP: Balanced
-Mazda CX-9 Gr. S / BOP: Handling-Focused
-McLaren... hey, they don't have an SUV - they are not up with the times. That's okay. PD can just make one up. I'd say this would be handling-focused.
-Mercedes-Benz G63 AMG Gr. S / BOP: Balanced
-Mitsubishi Outlander Gr. S / BOP: Handling-Focused
-Nissan Rogue Gr. S / BOP: Power-Focused (Top Speed)
-Peugeot 3008 Gr. S / BOP: Power-Focused (Acceleration)
-Porsche Cayenne GTS Gr. S / BOP: Balanced
-Renault Koleos Gr. S / BOP: Balanced
-Subaru Forester Gr. S / BOP: Handling-Focused
-Toyota Highlander Gr. S / BOP: Balanced
-Volkswagen Tiguan R Gr. S / BOP: Power-Focused (Top Speed)

----------------------------------------------------------------
But hey, why stop there.
If we're getting on with the times, we should be doing it correctly and add yet another class to the game.
As PD in their ever-lovable wisdom refuse to separate Group C cars from the Gr. 1 class, why not use that naming opportunity in a more forward-looking fashion?
Introducing the Crossover group! This would be slightly smaller and not taken into account for Manufacturers, given as how many of these carmakers don't have crossovers. What a shame.
----------------------------------------------------------------

Group C, here we go!
-Roster:

-Audi Q3 Gr. C / BOP: Handling-Focused
-BMW X1 s-drive Gr. C / BOP: Balanced
-Chevrolet Groove Gr. C / BOP: Balanced
-Citroen C4 Gr. C / BOP: Handling-Focused
-Dodge Journey Gr. C / BOP: Power-Focused (Top Speed)
-Ford Ka+ Active Gr. C / BOP: Power-Focused (Acceleration)
-Honda CR-V Gr. C / BOP: Balanced
-Hyundai Kona Gr. C / BOP: Handling-Focused
-Jaguar e-pace Gr. C / BOP: Power-Focused (Acceleration)
-Lexus RX 350L Gr. C / BOP: Balanced
-Mazda CX-3 Gr. C / BOP: Handling-Focused
-Mercedes-Benz GLE Coupé Gr. C / BOP: Power-Focused (Top Speed)
-Mitsubishi Eclipse Cross Gr. C / BOP: Handling-Focused
-Nissan Ariya Gr. C / BOP: Power-Focused (Acceleration)
-Peugeot 2008 Gr. C / BOP: Handling-Focused
-Renault Captur Gr. C / BOP: Balanced
-Subaru Crosstrek Gr. C / BOP: Balanced
-Toyota RAV4 Gr. C / BOP: Power-Focused (Top Speed)
-Volkswagen T-Cross Gr. C / BOP: Handling-Focused
-Tesla Model X Gr. C / BOP: Power-Focused (Acceleration)

----------------------------------------------------------------

What are your takes on this idea? Vote now! :D
and keep opinions civilized!

Only if we can tune them and bolt on bits ala Renault Espace F1
 
20,679
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Personally I have very little interest in racing SUVs except maybe highly modified versions on dirt. They're not made for or massively suitable for tarmac racing.
 
Last edited:

MatskiMonk

Inebriated member
Premium
13,529
United Kingdom
Not so Great Britain
They're not made for or massively suitable for tarmac racing.

Neither are luxury saloons, but (for example), racing an E38 BMW 740i up Grindelwald exemplifies what made me love Gran Turismo in the first place... I love that kind of variety. It also is the kind of thing that might feature here, and that's an important benchmark for me, personally.
 

Rob192005

Premium
12,492
England
Backstreets of Paisley
Robabza2
Well technically you can race anything,but I personally have no interest in racing these big heavy things.
 
20,679
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Neither are luxury saloons, but (for example), racing an E38 BMW 740i up Grindelwald exemplifies what made me love Gran Turismo in the first place... I love that kind of variety. It also is the kind of thing that might feature here, and that's an important benchmark for me, personally.

Sure a bit of variety is good, GT2 and GT4 had quite a few big saloons from what I remember and they can be fun but I've just never really enjoyed pushing an SUV on a track, that high weight and high centre of gravity feeling just don't make for a fun time for me, at least not more than a five minute novelty anyway.

That video just looks silly to me but to each their own as always.
 
Last edited:
451
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Tiguans, Q3s and CX-3s ? what is this, a racing game for soccer moms ?
Handling focus? really ?

Give us racing cars, Bugatti 35Bs, Lolas, Matras, Abarths, Coopers, Larousses, Chevrons, Lancias, F5000s, F2, F3000, Super touring era tin tops... 00's DTM, Super GT, JGTC.. there are literally thousands of racing cars that deserve a place. Organised in to relevant groups we could have a plethora of fun stuff to race.

I don't see SUVs being part of that group to be honest.
 
13,690
United States
Los Angeles, CA
lImaRobotl
I actually really enjoyed the SUV specific races on Forza. It's fun finding out that they can actually be fairly quick. Tried them in the career mode and eventually took them online and they do fairly well.
 
Last edited:

TheCracker

Nothing to see here...
Premium
21,966
South Korea
North Korea
GTP_TheCracker
As we're looking at 'vehicles that have no place at a race track' lets go the whole hog and ensure that they're all base models as well. Diesel preferably.
 
53
Spain
Spain
I would like that PD add some SUV and crossovers, like Lamborghini Urus or BMW X6 M. But a race class for them, no. Add new groups can be a good idea. For example, a Gr. T for trackday cars and a Gr. A for rally cars less powerful that Gr. B cars.
 
Last edited:
1,263
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
VulcanSpirit
You know, your interpretation of Group C could offer an interesting way to bring Opel/Vauxhall back into the franchise. The B-segment sized Mokka was a strong seller as far as I know and the second generation is also available as an all-electric version, which should offer enough differentiation from its Peugeot/Citroen counterparts to justify its inclusion. Add full PD-style racing modifications plus a livery similar to that of the Corsa e-Rally, and you'll probably end up with a modern-day equivalent to the Tigra Ice Race Car from GT2.

Opel-mokka-e-vorne.jpg


Opel-Corsa-e-Rally-Car-Frankfurt-Motor-Show-Featured-image-copy-1568x882.jpg


Considering that GT Sport already has off-road models such the Raptor and Tundra TRD Pro pickups in its roster, I wouldn't mind seeing more performance-oriented SUVs such as the Urus, Macan/Cayenne, Mustang Mach-E and Stelvio Quadrifoglio appear in a future instalment. In a way, a Group S version of the Mach-E kind of already exists in the real world with the 1400, which in itself would make for a fun and novel addition in the vein of the Isle of Man WRX.

 
Last edited:
231
Argentina
Buenos Aires, Argentina
Personally I have very little interest in racing SUVs except maybe highly modified versions on dirt. They're not made for or massively suitable for tarmac racing.


Tiguans, Q3s and CX-3s ? what is this, a racing game for soccer moms ?
Handling focus? really ?

Give us racing cars, Bugatti 35Bs, Lolas, Matras, Abarths, Coopers, Larousses, Chevrons, Lancias, F5000s, F2, F3000, Super touring era tin tops... 00's DTM, Super GT, JGTC.. there are literally thousands of racing cars that deserve a place. Organised in to relevant groups we could have a plethora of fun stuff to race.

I don't see SUVs being part of that group to be honest.

As we're looking at 'vehicles that have no place at a race track' lets go the whole hog and ensure that they're all base models as well. Diesel preferably.


They don't actually need to be heavy things. PD can just alter the stats to make them fun to drive - this'd be two classes that have no existence in the real world anyway. Just drop the weight down until they're not understeering snots and then adjust the power accordingly, give them bits of aero like @VulcanSpirit suggested with the Mach-e, and then I reckon they'd be fun to drive, as well as easier to pick up for beginners given how almost all of these are FF / AWD. And those were BOP suggestions. PD has that for their own Gr.4's and Gr.3's.

Why can't they give us all those cars and these two racing classes? SUV's are already encroaching into a bit of a sporty market, they shouldn't be ignored. There are some cool, interesting and memorable SUV's as well - it's just the stigma around them needs to be broken. But I doubt it'll ever happen.
----------------------


I actually really enjoyed the SUV specific races on Forza. It's fun finding out that they can actually be fairly quick. Tried them in the career mode and eventually took them online and they do fairly well.

same, I enjoyed driving them. The thing is Forza doesn't allow for that much weight reduction to the point that they behave like 1200kg cars, you still have to keep a different driving style with them. I think that's interesting enough to have them be somewhat relevant.

Personally I like variety of choice in my games if it's well made. I'd much rather drive a Mustang Mach-e which is fun and well balanced in a fictional racing class than a GT3 GT-R for the 50th time.
 

Dave A

TreVoR fan for life
Premium
28,211
United Kingdom
Cuddington, Cheshire
JDA1982
I can see a niche for some SUV's and a related race series or two in GT7, but I don't think they need to go to town and create huge rosters of custom SUV racing vehicles like the GR.4-1 classes in GT Sport. It's far too niche for that level of attention. But if they were to include a few SUV's and a series for them, like in GT4, then sure I'd do it once or twice and enjoy it for what it is.

I could see a benefit of having an offroad focused series more than a road one should offroad racing be a part of GT7, but I'd much prefer to main focus to be on cars and just have a few SUV's and trucks. We are in a situation where there are a finite amount of resources and therefore vehicles that can be included in the game afterall. If it was a case where whatever cars and tracks anyone wanted could be added, then go for it, we'd have a game with thousands of cars and tracks. But that's not going to happen.
 
38,045
Australia
The Bronx
Similar to the EV thread. The car market has changed and it'll be interesting if PD bring light, to GT players, of that change.
 
22,518
United States
Arizona
HamiltonMP427
Cool for shuffle racing if brought back, sure. Simulating a category that is primarily used for online racing/esports not in the slightest, especially an even more fictional one than the already half baked fictional ones PD made with FIA help.
 

CLowndes888

I want to be monkey
Premium
10,564
Australia
Melbourne
fubbletrouble888
Group C is reserved for sports prototypes from the 80's and early 90's so to see them associated with "crossovers" is weird. I'm thinking, how the hell can you make an SUV eligible for a prototype class? It would be more appropriate to convert them to rally raid vehicles under the guise of Group R.
 
231
Argentina
Buenos Aires, Argentina
Group C is reserved for sports prototypes from the 80's and early 90's so to see them associated with "crossovers" is weird. I'm thinking, how the hell can you make an SUV eligible for a prototype class? It would be more appropriate to convert them to rally raid vehicles under the guise of Group R.

Yes, but why can't we have both? I agree with what @05XR8 said that those VGTs could perhaps be integrated into these groups. Perhaps they could be a unique class that can be suited to both on and off road racing - seeing as how tune shops will return from previous games, it wouldn't be entirely out or the picture if you could buy dirt or snow tires and be able to race them in dirt and snow tracks with an altered suspension (maybe have a new tab in the tuning section called Rally, just how we have Drift in GT Sport).

also, PD could've set the Group C's aside from Gr.1 already. a long time ago in fact. But they haven't, and maybe they won't, given their very questionably unique design choices.

At which point, why not just drive something lighter and sportier in the first place?

True. Well then keep the weight and just up the power amounts. It'd make for an interesting experience, plus seeing as how there are many different SUVs. A Suburban and a C5 Aircross should handle somewhat differently to provide cool racing between different cars with different strengths, but make those differences stand out more over a lap. I don't know, maybe it's just me, but in GT Sport, I can barely make out a difference between a Gr.3 Genesis, Mustang, GT-R, F-Type and Supra. It is probably just me or the fact that it's based on a real racing series with somewhat tight restrictions. Aside from some being slightly more oversteery than others (and the Nissan being a t r u c k ) I genuinely could just use a randomizer to pick one and I think it wouldn't make a difference.
 
451
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
:embarrassed::D My Dad has a CX-5 actually! I've borrowed it on occasion when my stupid 3 door hatch is of no use. Its a decent car but not really something I'd want to race... 👍
 

Famine

GTP Editor, GTPEDIA Author
Administrator
73,272
United Kingdom
Rule 12
GTP_Famine
:embarrassed::D My Dad has a CX-5 actually! I've borrowed it on occasion when my stupid 3 door hatch is of no use. Its a decent car but not really something I'd want to race... 👍
As our other (running) car is an NA MX-5, I take my wife's CX-3 - not even the full 150hp AWD model, just a middling SE-L Nav, with about 120hp and an auto gearbox - out when I need to do errands.

It's not great between corners, but it is so much fun in them; Mazda always nails gearing and steering anyway, and the damping on this thing is sublime. The other day I hosed a SEAT Leon Cupra FR (hatch, 280hp) up over my favourite driving road, to the point where he just brake-checked me out of frustration (which didn't work; the sightlines are nearly horizon to horizon), so I sailed past - I lost him in a mile. I shocked the crap out of a BMW 435i out on our local bypass last week when I tanked across one of the roundabouts without slowing down in a full four-wheel drift. Pulled 200 yards on him, and he hadn't even caught up by the next one despite his speeding both sides of it.

And yet I improved the long-term fuel economy by 0.2mpg on that trip, which makes me wonder how my wife even drives it :lol:


That all said, while I think it's a brilliant car but I can't imagine it making it all that high even on my own personal request list for a Gran Turismo game. I'd certainly do the CX-3 vs Mokka vs HR-V vs T-Cross vs whatever race, but I wouldn't be suggesting it.
 
Last edited:

Famine

GTP Editor, GTPEDIA Author
Administrator
73,272
United Kingdom
Rule 12
GTP_Famine
All fur coat and no knickers though ! imagine it with a 4 rotor rotary engine!
You... prefer pornography where they're wearing underwear?


Anything else from the brand would fit under the bonnet though. The standard 150hp 2.0 is a good laugh and makes it a bit hot-hatchy (in the sense of 1980s rather than 2020s), so the MX-5's 180hp version would be a good bump. Slap a turbo on it and you're golden :D

Damn. Now I have a project in mind.
 
Last edited:
1,198
Australia
Sydney
snakebacon97
If it's a group system like in Sport, and I look into GT7's daily races and see Gr."Crossover" at Alsace... no, I don't like that future.
That said, I love driving and racing in unusual, often slow vehicles for novelty! Daihatsu Midget IIs, Kubelwagens, the Tank Car and Volvo estates have been great fun, I fervently look forward to also racing an FJ Cruiser, Tarago, '59 Cadillac, Tuk-tuk, Delica, Skoda Yeti, Mini Moke, Mr. Whippy Van, AEC Routemaster etc.