Car buying discussion

[skip0110]

In around a year I'm going to be buying a car. It's never too early to start thinking, and if the right deal appears, I'll jump on it sooner.

Nothing is really set in stone, but I can anticipate a budget of $30-$40K.

Generally, I'm thinking

• I don't want anything European, with the exception being a E30 or E36 3 series.
• I don't really think I want a Japanese car either, but that's much more open to suggestion.
• It has to be sort of practical. With a set of snow tires it has to work in the snow. RWD is fine though (actually preferred). Needs to have a back seat (which could be tiny). I would put a 350Z on my list, for example, but it doesn't have back seats.
• Something fast (ish). As a minimum it needs to have torque. No need to have AMG/M levels of haste, though.
• No Camaros or Mustangs. Too common.

Some stuff that seems to look promising:

• 94-96 Chevy Caprice LT1
• GMC Sierra Denali or C3
• Cummins Ram
• 2004 Pontiac GTO
• 2005+ Acura RL
• Lincoln LS (thanks Toronado!)
• 2003-2006 G35 (thanks Toronado and JCE3000GT!)
• Mazdaspeed 6 (thanks JCE3000GT!)
• Lexus SC400 (thanks Wolfe!)
• E30/E36 3 series (thanks Wolfe!)
• Charger (maybe)

Clearly some of those are way under my budget. Just because I have that much money, does not mean I need to spend it all.

So, thoughts?

 

[Tornado]

• I would put a 350Z on my list, for example, but it doesn't have back seats.

Do I win an Internet?

Failing that, there is always the Lincoln LS...

 

[JCE]

If I was in your situation here would be MY list. Choose any of these to consider.

• 2007 Acura TL Type-S (used)
• 2002-2004 Audi S4
• 2000-2002 BMW M3 coupe
• 2000-2001 BMW M5
• 2003-2005 Jaguar S-Type R
• 2003-2007 Volvo S60R
• 2006-2007 Mazdaspeed 6
• 2004-2006 Nissan Maxima SE 6spd
• 2003-2007 Infiniti G35 coupe or saloon
• 2004-2006 Pontiac GTO

*edit*
While I'm typing this up someone beats me to it for the G35.

 

[skip0110]

Do I win an Internet?

Failing that, there is always the Lincoln LS...

Thats the reason I made this.

Lincoln LS is good too.

If I was in your situation here would be MY list. Choose any of these to consider.

• 2007 Acura TL Type-S (used)
• 2002-2004 Audi S4
• 2000-2002 BMW M3 coupe
• 2000-2001 BMW M5
• 2003-2005 Jaguar S-Type R
• 2003-2007 Volvo S60R
• 2006-2007 Mazdaspeed 6
• 2004-2006 Nissan Maxima SE 6spd
• 2003-2007 Infiniti G35 coupe or saloon
• 2004-2006 Pontiac GTO

*edit*
While I'm typing this up someone beats me to it for the G35.

The Audi, BMW and Volvo are nice cars, but I have a certain stigma attached to them, so they are out. The Maxima is likewise nice, but again, I'm just not a fan of the brand. The Mazdaspeed 6 is a good call.

Why get a TL when a RL is also in my price range? Am I missing something here?

 

[Wolfe]

The E36 328i would fit the bill quite nicely (almost an M3 for less money), but an E30 325i would sacrifice speed for better build quality.

Another idea is the 1991-2000 Lexus SC300/SC400. Back seats, RWD, and plenty of grunt with both the straight-6 and the V8. Basically a G35 that'll cost you a lot less to purchase (and it looks better, too, IMO).

Of course, the first-generation Lexus IS would work too, and offer more practicality.

 

[skip0110]

The E36 328i would fit the bill quite nicely (almost an M3 for less money), but an E30 325i would sacrifice speed for better build quality.

My friend has an E30 325i with about a zillion miles on it. It feels nice, but I wouldn't call it quick. What sort of build quality difference are we talking about here? Would the difference in age make up for it?

Another idea is the 1991-2000 Lexus SC300/SC400. Back seats, RWD, and plenty of grunt with both the straight-6 and the V8. Basically a G35 that'll cost you a lot less to purchase (and it looks better, too, IMO).

I was under the impression that the SC400 is kind of heavy and slow. I'll have to look into it more. I do agree, it looks good.

Of course, the first-generation Lexus IS would work too, and offer more practicality.

The IS looks good on the interior, but the interior seems fiddly to me. No thanks.

 

[Sage]

• Acura TSX (not so fast, but really cool and classy)
• Mazdaspeed 3 (fast!)
• Mazda RX-8 (one of my personal favorites)
• Mini Cooper S (why not?)
• Subaru Forester 2.5 XT (fast and ugly! )
• VW GTI
• Volvo C30
• Volvo S40

 

[Wolfe]

My friend has an E30 325i with about a zillion miles on it. It feels nice, but I wouldn't call it quick. What sort of build quality difference are we talking about here? Would the difference in age make up for it?

Well, anyone who's familiar with BMWs can tell you that they aren't that good with the little things. The engines, drivetrains, and all of the other major stuff will likely last until the end of time, but on a 10- to 20-year-old example you'll find broken interior bits, malfunctioning electronic doodads, and idiot lights permanently giving a false alarm.

However, from what I've read and heard, the E36 is just a bit worse. Not only are they beginning to display as many of these small problems as E30s twice their age, they also seem to have twice as many major weak points, mainly with the plastic BMW used in parts of the cooling system (radiator neck, water pump impeller, thermostat cover), but also in a couple other key areas, such as the rear shock mounts.

On the other hand, knowing the E36's weak points allows you to perform preventative maintenance, and a quick search on the internet will net you metal replacement parts for the plastic cooling system pieces, among other things. Also, the E30 is not without its problem areas, the most threatening one on the 325i being the timing belt, which needs to be fresh to ensure that the valves don't kiss the pistons.

In my opinion (and keep in mind that I'm an owner of one), the E30 is just a better-designed and better-built car. It's also significantly lighter and keeps the driver more in-tune with the car and road. They may not be particularly fast, but the 6-cylinder models offer up a healthy amount of torque, as per your want list.

In the end, the main question is whether you can deal with the small problems. If you stand to have a couple non-resettable idiot lights shining in your face at night, and an interior panel or two that just won't stay in place, in exchange for that fabled BMW handling and the scream of a straight-six at full bore, then I say go for it.

I was under the impression that the SC400 is kind of heavy and slow. I'll have to look into it more. I do agree, it looks good.

They weigh 3500-3600lbs., which is about average for an entry-level GT car these days. They're also good for a 0-60 time in the high/low 7 second range (for the 300/400, respectively), whatever that means for you. I consider that rather quick.

 

[Sage]

You can’t put a person in the back seat of an SC. Period. You just can’t.

 

[Tornado]

• Mazda RX-8 (one of my personal favorites)

As much as I love the RX-8 for its handling prowess and practicality, describing it as anything more than "anemic" when it comes to torque may be too kind.

 

[Wolfe]

You can’t put a person in the back seat of an SC. Period. You just can’t.

Skip appears to be concerned with just having backseats, not necessarily worthwhile ones.

Needs to have a back seat (which could be tiny).

 

[1X83Z]

You want a domestic performance car for $30-$40k? Does that even exist?

Chrysler 300C. You've already got GTO. Otherwise I'm at a loss - although I note that just about everything you added to your list violates the country of origin stipulation.

 

[Leonidae]

-M-B 190E, last proper sports merc IMHO
-Golf VR6 4motion
-Volvo T5R

 

[JCE]

Lincoln LS is good too.

I'm a huge fan of the LS. I really think Ford missed out on a HUGE oppertunity by not squeezing out 20bhp more to get the LS V8 into 300bhp territory. But still, the 3.9L V8 still produced around 280bhp from the 2003-2006 models. Also, brilliant car to drive on long trips as well as short trips to the shops.

LSE model:

And the greatest thing about the LS is you can get a low mileage 2006 model for about $20k. And, it has tiptronic--which apparently some people who will remain nameless--like. I would of suggested an LS in my list but I was going for vehicles that costed a bit more money.

2006 LS Sport, black, w/8500 miles for $20k-ish:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2006...9QQihZ004QQcategoryZ31850QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

2005: LS Sport, black, w/22k miles [will probably sell for around $18k]:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2005...9QQihZ008QQcategoryZ31850QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

The Audi, BMW and Volvo are nice cars, but I have a certain stigma attached to them, so they are out. The Maxima is likewise nice, but again, I'm just not a fan of the brand. The Mazdaspeed 6 is a good call.

May I ask what that stigma is?

Why get a TL when a RL is also in my price range? Am I missing something here?

Yes. The TL Type-S is 5000% better looking inside and out in my opinion. And its cheaper. The RL is a good car, and the SH-AWD is all that and a bag of chips--but I prefer the look of the TL.

TL Type-S:

RL:

I actually think the RL is slightly on the ugly side if I'm honest...

You want a domestic performance car for $30-$40k? Does that even exist? *snip*

Yes. Pontiac GTO (now doa),Charger R/T, and more importantly Mustang GT convertable w/every option peeks in at just over $31k or so.

Chrysler 300C.

The Charger R/T looks better, therefore, Charger R/T FTW!

 

[1X83Z]

And, it has tiptronic--which apparently some people who will remain nameless--like.

You mean Duke?

The Charger R/T looks better, therefore, Charger R/T FTW!

Fair point. Either one works - they also all (Charger, 300C, Magnum) offer all-wheel drive, and if he stays in Boston that'd be a benefit. Their only detractor is that they're large - otherwise they're good - unless we ask you.

 

[The Vanishing Boy]

-> Have you considered any Subaru Legacy 2.5GT series (doesn't matter if its a Spec.B or not)?

^ It has traction, it has decent power, and it also comes with a wagon too.

 

[JCE]

You mean Duke?

Yes.

Fair point. Either one works - they also all (Charger, 300C, Magnum) offer all-wheel drive, and if he stays in Boston that'd be a benefit. Their only detractor is that they're large - otherwise they're good - unless we ask you.

Hey, I like the Charger and Magnum. Its the 300 I have a large problem with.

 

[TopHat]

**OFF COLOR REMARK REMOVED BY MODERATOR**

Hmmm... 30K? Lesse here.

1. Mustang GT.

Oh wait. Too common.

Start over. Shelby GT. Yeah baby.

Sorry If anyone was offended. I promise I'm not some Nazi.

 

[Jim Prower]

Hm...

'68 Nova?

Nah, not really that practical, but perhaps you could think old car.

 

[skip0110]

-M-B 190E, last proper sports merc IMHO
-Golf VR6 4motion
-Volvo T5R

Besides the BMWs that are on the list, an older Mercedes is about the only other Euro car I would consider. But if I get an itch for more speed, I would be starting with a very expensive platform (I believe). Therefore it's out.

I'm a huge fan of the LS. I really think Ford missed out on a HUGE oppertunity by not squeezing out 20bhp more to get the LS V8 into 300bhp territory. But still, the 3.9L V8 still produced around 280bhp from the 2003-2006 models. Also, brilliant car to drive on long trips as well as short trips to the shops.

I totally agree. It should have been on the list from the beginning.

May I ask what that stigma is?

Euro car drivers are generally stereotypes as pricks. I know that (obviously) the stereotype is wrong 99% of the time, but it would still bug me driving around inside one knowing how I look at other people who drive similar cars.

Yes. The TL Type-S is 5000% better looking inside and out in my opinion. And its cheaper. The RL is a good car, and the SH-AWD is all that and a bag of chips--but I prefer the look of the TL.

I actually think the RL is slightly on the ugly side if I'm honest...

We differ there. The RL looks a little short and awkward in profile, but I think it's a very nice shape. I see TL's around all the time--it's a sharp looking car, but very common.

Yes. Pontiac GTO (now doa),Charger R/T, and more importantly Mustang GT convertable w/every option peeks in at just over $31k or so.

The Charger R/T looks better, therefore, Charger R/T FTW!

Again, I agree. The Charger is such a great athletic shape that perhaps I can look past the Merceds underpinnings (and, really, mediocre Mercedes underpinnings at that) and make it an option. Maybe.

Fair point. Either one works - they also all (Charger, 300C, Magnum) offer all-wheel drive, and if he stays in Boston that'd be a benefit. Their only detractor is that they're large - otherwise they're good - unless we ask you.

AWD is practical, but I would probably just get a RWD one.

-> Have you considered any Subaru Legacy 2.5GT series (doesn't matter if its a Spec.B or not)?

^ It has traction, it has decent power, and it also comes with a wagon too.

I own a Subaru now. There's nothing wrong with it, but I want something different.

Hm...

'68 Nova?

Nah, not really that practical, but perhaps you could think old car.

An old car is probably in my future (I have a weird thing for Vegas and Pintos) but I need something I can count on, at least for now.

 

[1X83Z]

Besides the BMWs that are on the list, an older Mercedes is about the only other Euro car I would consider. But if I get an itch for more speed, I would be starting with a very expensive platform (I believe). Therefore it's out.

With that cash you could very easily afford a fine example of a C43 AMG, which was made from 1998 to 2000. Come on - after all those years driving a 165 horsepower 4-cylinder, don't you deserve a 302-horsepower V8?

 

[The Vanishing Boy]

I own a Subaru now. There's nothing wrong with it, but I want something different.

^ Oh, I didn't know that, sorry.

 

[JCE]

I totally agree. It should have been on the list from the beginning.
Euro car drivers are generally stereotypes as pricks. I know that (obviously) the stereotype is wrong 99% of the time, but it would still bug me driving around inside one knowing how I look at other people who drive similar cars.

As long as you know that YOU aren't a prick while driving your Eurobox then that's what really matters. Screw everyone else if they have a problem with YOUR car. Now, let's talk German auto machines shall we?

We differ there. The RL looks a little short and awkward in profile, but I think it's a very nice shape. I see TL's around all the time--it's a sharp looking car, but very common.

I can appreciate this. The RL isn't hideous mind you, I just prefer the sleek aggressive shape of the TL. And the Type-S isn't a common model so if you bought one you'd be somewhat exclusive.

Again, I agree. The Charger is such a great athletic shape that perhaps I can look past the Merceds underpinnings (and, really, mediocre Mercedes underpinnings at that) and make it an option. Maybe.

The E-class wasn't so bad, but the good news for you is that the Charger/300/Magnum only share the basic of all basic portion of the platform. Everything else is pretty much a Chrysler product. As much as I hate to admit it, an AWD HEMI Charger has a certain brutality that makes my pants happy.

With that cash you could very easily afford a fine example of a C43 AMG, which was made from 1998 to 2000. Come on - after all those years driving a 165 horsepower 4-cylinder, don't you deserve a 302-horsepower V8?

You mean that? Good looking car.

But I prefer this:

Yes yes yes, its 10 years older blah blah blah. But look at it, its beautiful. Probably my favorite Merc saloon to date.

And if we are breaking his rules by talking European, I HAVE to throw this into the mix...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/03-C...0QQihZ002QQcategoryZ31853QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I'm actually a huge fan of the CLK430, but this (CLK55) to me is worth every penny. This one has 58k miles and has a price tag of $28,500. Think about the performance and luxury you get for that $28.5k. 362bhp and 376lb.ft. of torque--and its naturally aspirated too. 0-60mph in 4.9s or so, ¼mi in 13.24. That's not too shabby.

My resource: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupe/112_0310_2003_mercedes_benz_clk55_amg/specs_price.html

*edit*
Added a photo of the CLK55.

 

[TopHat]

An old car is probably in my future (I have a weird thing for Vegas and Pintos) but I need something I can count on, at least for now.

So... You have a thing for rust and burning oil?

I agree on the Charger bit,and the GTO is a steal, 400 hp for 33,000 dollars? Wow. Just make sure you get the manual.

EDIT: Forget that. Go for the CLK. DO IT.

 

[YSSMAN]

To me, you're left with two choices:

- 2008 Pontiac G8 (Holden Commodore):



With an available LY7 V6 (260 BHP) or L76 V8 (360 BHP, with cylinder deactivation and E85 capability), and a low price point, the G8 is the car to beat come 2008. The cars should begin arriving at US dealerships in late November or December at the earliest, otherwise the cars will be out in full-force by January.

Official pricing has yet to be announced, however, most people are anticipating prices to mirror that of the Dodge Charger SXT and R/T, or split the difference between the Charger and 300C siblings. A good estimate for a V6 model with the 5-sped automatic (only transmission available) with a few options would probably be about $27,000, give or take a bit there. A nicely equipped G8 GT with the V8 and a stick will likely run no more than $32,000 or so, but estimates vary with the V8 models.

...Inspiring performance, calm and collected road manners, all together at a very low price make the G8 an attractive option. Just ask an Aussie how good the car is...

- 2008 Cadillac CTS:



What more can I say about this car? The Sigma II chassis has spawned a true winner, and personally speaking, I've never been this torn between two GM in-house products before. Similar (sort of) to the G8, the CTS will have available two engines at launch; The standard LY7 3.6L DOHC V6 with 250-260 BHP, and a direct-injected version of the same engine, dubbed the LLT, that produces just above 300 BHP. Both models will use six-speed automatics and manual transmissions, and will have an available option of AWD as well.

...Performance wise, the Sigma II CTS uses many of the suspension pieces, and various levels of suspension tune from the previous Sigma I CTS-V, and hopes to split the difference between the 3-series and 5-series in terms of size, better the vehicles in terms of performance (we'll see), and indeed undercut them in price.

Prices should start out about the same as the current CTS, maybe a few more dollars tacked-on. Basic models thereby should start just below $30,000 and fully-loaded models with the LLT and AWD should climb well into the $40K range.

...IMO, the sweet-spot would be a black CTS Sport with a black leather interior, the LLT 300 BHP V6, the six-speed M10 manual transmission, and a few other 'basic' options. Nothing fancy, just a very nice $36,000 (or so) car.

 

[Leonidae]

190E Evo II is a classic, and instead of losing price it will increase. And then, it's a manual, which is even more important to performance car enthusiast. automatics FTL, unless it's similar to paddleshifter DSG.

 

[///M-Spec]

In around a year I'm going to be buying a car. It's never too early to start thinking, and if the right deal appears, I'll jump on it sooner.

<SNIP>

So, thoughts?

There's a lot of good cars on the list already. My only suggestion is you should consider something that may be impractical to own a few years down the road. Maybe splurge a little before life has you settling down to be a semi-responsible citizen.

Although I enjoyed the practical sedans I've owned, not much else gets the blood pumping like a good sports car. Plenty of time later on in life for a sedan... when you HAVE to have one. I'd say if you don't want a pure 2 seater, and don't mind a slushbox go with something like the GTO or CLK. But hopefully you still want a stick, which puts the G35 or something like a BMW E36/E46 coupe up at the top of the list. Drive them... something will pop out at you.

Personally, if I were your age without any commitments, I'd try to swing an M Coupe or Corvette or Elise.

I totally agree. It should have been on the list from the beginning.
Euro car drivers are generally stereotypes as pricks. I know that (obviously) the stereotype is wrong 99% of the time, but it would still bug me driving around inside one knowing how I look at other people who drive similar cars.

Meh, that's not true. I was a prick long before I bought my first Euro car.



M

 

[JCE]

I'd say if you don't want a pure 2 seater, and don't mind a slushbox go with something like the GTO or CLK. But hopefully you still want a stick, which puts the G35 or something like a BMW E36/E46 coupe up at the top of the list. Drive them... something will pop out at you.

+1 Agreed. And especially the part in the bold. The only TRUE way to make the decision is to compile the list and then drive each one--and my suggestion is to drive each one as close to each other other as possible. You don't want to wait a week or month between test drives, you might forget what the other cars were like if you have 10 or so on your list.

Meh, that's not true. I was a prick long before I bought my first Euro car

Heh.

 

[1X83Z]

Personally, if I were your age without any commitments, I'd try to swing an M Coupe or Corvette or Elise.

As a daily driver?

Meh, that's not true. I was a prick long before I bought my first Euro car.

At least this post contains an admission of truth.

 

[Tornado]

- 2008 Cadillac CTS:

Yuck. Pick up an "everything Must Go" last gen CTS, or used STS (hey, that's actually a idea). Sooooo much better.