Champ Car vs F1 Car vs IndyCar. Which car would win?

Discussion in 'Motorsport' started by y2kgamer, Apr 7, 2005.

  1. y2kgamer

    y2kgamer

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    Champ Car vs F1 Car vs IndyCar. The top open-wheel race cars in the world...

    Which car would win?

    BTW, I hope PD also puts Champ Cars and IndyCars into GT5 so we can settle it on the track! :)
     
  2. y2kgamer

    y2kgamer

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    http://www.champcarworldseries.com/Tech/Car_Comparisons.asp
     
  3. daan

    daan Moderator

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    There is no comparison there. F1 would easily win on all tracks, but would have a harder time at the fastest ovals as the Indycar and IRL cars are designed to turn left only.

    The F1 is the most powerful and also the lightest.
     
  4. y2kgamer

    y2kgamer

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  5. Blake

    Blake Premium

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    F1 cars are faster than Champ Cars and Indy Cars...More power, more downforce, lighter and they have traction control.

    The only time F1 cars would be in danger is on Super Speedways (tracks that are taken completely flat out the whole way) as the engines aren't designed to stay at high revs for along time and they would probably explode within a few laps, the aero produces alot of drag - even when it's stripped down for tracks like Monza

    And god knows when those power figures were taken, F1 cars had about 840 HP in 2000, now it's well over 900.

    Blake
     
  6. JohnBM01

    JohnBM01 Premium

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    Right away, I'd say in order from best to worst:

    Formula One => Champ Car World Series => Indy Racing Leauge

    Why do I have F1 #1? No question. It's the most prestigious race cars and something children perhaps dream of racing since they are so fast and go around the world and back. You're up against tough competition. I'm not going the NASCAR route by rating in the order of {IRL => Champ Car => F1} because I understand the challenge of Formula One racing. People say it's tough to overtake and because some team drenched in red always win races or at least get a podium. One time in a "But Wait, There's More" segment of AutoWeek (before their final TV show), one segment asked a NASCAR driver if he would enter Formula One, and the response was "why would I want to step down to Formula One?" Complete bullcrap. Every sport and motorsport has star players and it isn't that easy to beat that top name all the time. Stop b*tching and start racing.

    Why Champ Car at #2? One GTPlanet member stated it best- this is about America's closest thing to Formula One. When NASCAR was out somewhere, I was highly interested in Champ Cars zooming around ovals, road courses, and exciting street races (including the former Grand Prix of Houston here locally). It got me into racing before learning about the American Le Mans Series. And even though Champ Car is in a slump, it's not dead like the North American Touring Car Championship.

    Why the Indy Racing Leauge at #3? Their main selling point is the Indianapolis 500. Other than that, there's great finishes, close racing, a world of talent... but it's no F1. It's no Champ Car. IRL is unique to America as is NASCAR. And since it seems to be easier to learn about racers on ovals as opposed to road courses here in America, many of the names are "easily accessible" to the American viewing audience.

    There you have it.
     
  7. faster

    faster

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    The comparison between the three is not logical because all are governed by totally different rules. F1 cars are as close to being unregulated as you can get, thus they are the most expensive. They produce the most power from ridiculously high reving engines and the most downforce from this laxed regulation. They have traction control, stickier tires, etc. the other two race series are more a driver oriented series as where F1 is a who has the most money to make the best machine series.

    CART and IRL heavily regulate the performance perameters of their cars to make racing fair, IRL more than CART. Each have set limits for horsepower by setting limits for boost and and revs. Each also set limits for downforce, IRL even goes as far as mandating common rear wings and gearboxes. It makes for a more competative series. Plus CART and IRL chasis are much thicker and heavier than their F1 counterparts, the more substancial tub or frame is used to insure greater safety for the drivers in the CART and IRL series, especially in the high speed oval races, which create the most severe and violent crashes.

    If we are talking about top speed, the CART champ car would prevail. Although the F1 has more power it also creates a massive amount of downforce which creates a massive amount of drag that limits its top speed.

    Which is better is subjective. On a road course, the F1 would win because of its marked advantage from laxed regulations, plus the road course is what they were designed to race on . On an American SuperSpeedway the Champ car would take the checkered with the IRL finishing second and the F1 finishing a distant third if it finished at all. F1 engines are not designed for continual top end speed, nor is the whole set up or design of their cars for that matter.

    But for my money, I greatly enjoyed CART in its hay day between the mid and late 90's. It produce some of the best and most competative racing I've seen. And the variety of courses were amazing, road courses, short ovals, long ovals, street courses, and even the course that was the cleveland airport.

    All three are different beasts, and like all auto racing, hold a certain fasination to those who like to go fast.
     
  8. ///M3_CP

    ///M3_CP

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    I think that champcars have run at the Montreal F1 track, I believe this was in 2003 but I could be wrong, in any case the difference was quite significant with the Minardis being six second a lap faster than the champ car pole winning car.
     
  9. daan

    daan Moderator

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    What? F1 regulations are just as strict if not stricter than the other 2 series.

    F1 cars lost about 20% of their downforce through regulation changes for this season.

    The softer a tyre is, the stickier it is, means it doesn't last very long. How many sets of tyres does a CART or IRL car use during a race? An F1 car is on the same set of 4 tyres through both sets of hotlap qualifying and a ~200 mile race. How can that be stickier?

    It's also got grooves on it to remove some of the grip. CART and IRL use full slicks.
     
  10. MJW

    MJW

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    I think you can only compare these 3 cars on different circuits.Indycars used to race on ovals only,but now on other kinds of circuits too (wich I don`t like).I think a Indycar would be the fastest on ovals,and F1 cars on street circuits and normal racing tracks.The Champcars will be somewhere between.
     
  11. Blake

    Blake Premium

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    I don't agree, I think Champ Cars would be faster than Indy cars on ovals, they have more power and less strict aero regs.

    Blake
     
  12. kenton

    kenton

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    champ cars would beat circle jerk cars(Indy Racing League-IRL) cars anyday of the week-at st. pete irl cars were 3 seconds slower than champ cars. at montreal champ cars were 6 seconds slower than f1 cars.. funny thing is the IRL was formed as an all oval series by the idiot grand son tony george. it was meant to give the USAC drivers a chance at racing in the big leagues without competing with foreign drivers. this was in 1995 also the year of the last "real" indy 500. now 10 years later the IRL is filled with foreign drivers, the USAC guys are heading to nascar instead, IRL is becoming what CART was before the split in 1995. now CCWS(used to be known as CART) and the IRL are struggling to get ratings and butts in the seats. all thanks to that idiot grand son tony george.
     
  13. JohnBM01

    JohnBM01 Premium

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    Kenton, some people say that Tony George is the Antichrist of motorsports in America. Do you agree, and why?
     
  14. kenton

    kenton

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    heck yeah i agreed. 10 years ago CART was in a good situation. venues were sold out 60,000+ people on race day. Tony George then decides to split and make his own series cause he think he's going to save the indy 500 and the fact that he wanted controll. when he formed the Indy Racing League he said it was an all oval series with the main attraction being the Indy 500, it was also meant to give the guys at USAC a chance to race in the big leagues without having to compete as much with foriegn drivers. 10 years later. Champ Cars and Indy Racing League get lower ratings than dog shows. the indy 500 is ruined, tony george himself said "33 is just a number" 33 being the minimum car count for indy. the IRL is full of foreign drivers and the USAC guys are heading to NASCAR instead. the all oval format is gone, this year they'll be racing on 3 road courses (watkins glen, infineon, and the St. Petersburg florida street course). tony george who once said that the owners of a racing series shouldnt be fielding cars is now feilding a car for his stupid grandson who dnf's more than he finishes, even funnier that he called his team "Vision". the IRL is pretty much becoming CART II. there was no reason what so ever for the split except tony george ot greedy and ruined american open wheel racing. there have been talks on reunification but the only thing thats stands in the way is tony george.
     
  15. ivann

    ivann

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    What do you think now, 2014.? Who would win?
     
  16. SagarisGTB

    SagarisGTB

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    Indycars are more comparable in speed to GP2, WSR and Super Formula. For a fair few years, GP2 and Formula Nippon were clearly faster than Indycar, though perhaps not now as Indycar are as fast as they've been in a while (or ever, I'm not sure).
     
  17. Earth

    Earth

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    Indycars probably could have been very close to F1 if there was a race held at the Jerez test.
     
  18. IforceV8

    IforceV8

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    Its tough to compare since they rarely ran the same track but there are some unofficial times at Laguna Seca.

    2000 Penske Reynard/Honda Helio Castroneves pole lap 1:07.722 Shell
    2007 DP-01 Cosworth Sebastian Bourdais unofficial testing time 1:05.880

    2006 Toyota TF-106 Ricardo Zonta demonstration run 1:06.739
    2012 Ferrari 2003-GA Marc Gene demonstration run 1:05.786

    Champcar also raced at Circuit Gilles Villeneuve and was 5-7 sec slower than F1,but CART was on a spec tire and F1 was in the middle of a tire war with Bridgestone and Michelin.

    2002 Williams FW24 Juan Montoya pole 1:12.836
    2002 Lola/Toyota Christiano da Matta pole 1:18.959

    2012 NASCAR Busch series Alex Tagliani 1:40.865

    The IRL crapwagons were slower than Champcars everywhere,and are best left forgotten in a old warehouse somewhere in Indiana.
     
  19. Earth

    Earth

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    CART has always held the straightline advantage over anyone. When Jacque Villeneuve went to F1 in '96 he said those cars were better then what you have in CART/Indycar in every single way except for straight line performance. Its easy to tell thats the case when you had Indycars going 250mph in race conditions on the big ovals but the BAR Honda F1 team had to cut the wings off and go to the salt flats to get 250mph.

    F1 will always be the fastest, they have the lightest cars, the least restrictive rules, and the biggest budgets. Thankfully the quality of racing isnt all about just how fast you go. If you notice in IForceV8's post the NASCAR Nationwide series cars are 30 seconds slower a lap around Montreal then F1, but that series has had something like 3 or 4 straight finishes that came down to the line at Montreal.
     
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  20. BHRxRacer

    BHRxRacer (Banned)

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    Unless you're going to bring up budget caps, that sounds wrong to me. If they could add direct injection and KERS to the V10s, keep the big rear wing, bring back the smaller fuel tank, add the wide front wing from last year, blown exhausts and double diffuser, then I can't even imagine how much faster F1 cars can be.
     
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  21. SagarisGTB

    SagarisGTB

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    To add to the discussion:
    The only possible recent direct comparison on a common track for Indycar with another big single seater car that I can recall is through the 2011 Indy Japan when Indycar ran on the Motegi Road Course.

    2011 Indy Japan 300
    Quali: 1'38.3
    Race: 1'40.2

    2011 Formula Nippon
    Quali: 1'35.0
    Race: 1'36.7

    2013 Super Formula (FM rebranded)
    Quali: 1'32.8
    Race: 1'35.0

    2013 Indycars are a fair bit faster than 2011 Indycars, so I wouldn't be surprised if they got close to SF cars.

    Indycar and GP2/WSR don't run on any common tracks, and using an intermediate (such as LMP1) to get an approximation of how they compare in terms of lap time is troublesome. The only courses Indycar shared with ALMS this past season was two street circuits, which are very different from the high-speed autodromes WEC shares with GP2. The comparison is meaningless.
     
  22. Earth

    Earth

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    Indycar has had similar performance restrictions. The Indianapolis lap record is from 1996. Today's cars are only starting to match the speed from 10, 15 years ago. Its amazing today's almost spec Indycars are doing similar times to earlier Indycars which had 300 more horsepower along with the Goodyear/Firestone tire war and multiple chassis battles.

    You are right, the new Dallara is much quicker then the one that raced in 2011, which got labeled by many as a 'crapwagon'.

    Mid Ohio Indycar Pole Time

    1999: 1:05.347
    2011: 1:08.077
    2013: 1:05.351,

    So your looking at today's cars being 3 seconds quicker then 2011 over a somewhat short 70 second lap. Some primitive math says if the lap distance is 1:35 then today's Indycar should be 4 seconds faster. So still a tick off of Super Formula. The interesting thing to note is Indycar plans to make dramatic upgrades to the engines and tires in the next 3 years. And they soon will allow aero kits for road and oval courses, vastly improving their performance.