Changes / Suggestions

[Jordan]

Please share any thoughts or ideas you have that you think would improve the GTP Leaderboards. All feedback is welcome and encouraged.

PLEASE DO NOT POST ERRORS OR BUGS IN THIS THREAD - this is for CHANGES / SUGGESTIONS ONLY!

 

[LoudMusic]

Perhaps a How - To? Starting with a link? I'm lost. I have no idea what I'm looking for.

 

[Jordan]

Well, if you can't figure something out on the web, I know something is bad wrong. But I see what you mean. I'll see what I can cook up.

 

[Blackbird.]

Perhaps a How - To? Starting with a link? I'm lost. I have no idea what I'm looking for.

You mean you don't know where to look for the leaderboard itself?

 

[kensei]

(copy/paste repost from the main leaderboard froum)

A few observations....

1) Is there no distinction between Arcade mode and GT (Sim) mode? There should be. When submitting your time you should be asked which mode and on the leaderboard maybe it shows an icon or two different categories. Also when submitting arcade car times you need to ask/know the power and weight modifiers and gearing (for race cars only).

2) If I am in the "Gt4 - fastest laps" I would expect to see ONLY the GT4 circuits and cars (filtered) as options to choose. Right now you see all circuits and cars in the database. Confusing for a newb thinking "Where is Cathedral Rocks in GT4?" or "Which Ruf Yellowbird is the GT4 one?" I think the car options are the bigger issue. Right now the Ruf section is a mess, hard to tell which car is what from what version of the game.

3) I was hoping on the leaderboard itself you would see power AND weight...then you get an idea of what car mods the person is running for GT Mode and what they adjusted for Arcade Mode. That is very important IMO. I see you have lots of options as far as people being able to submit all their settings but the power/weight are the msot important.

4) What if we have a game version not in HP? I own the NTSC-J version and my version is in PS. 180ps is not 180hp, close but not the same. Are those of us with non native HP game version supposed to convert on our own or does the database figure it out? The solution would be to put a pull down next to the power field with HP, PS....etc that the user has to choose then the DB figures it out. If not then you need to link to a site to convert ps to hp so everyone is using the same conversion. You don't want to get into debates as to how the power was converted, etc. You'll have enough on your plate verifying lap times...don't want to add power verification too.

5) I think asking for version of the game (NTSC-J, NTSC, PAL) is important given the little differences between them all.

6) I think showing the tire(s) on the leaderboard listing ot vital too. I know it's in the lap info area but i think it needs to be listed on the leaderboard as well. Color code them too. I want to be able to visually scan the leaderboards and see who is running what tire quickly. It's a nice feature that I have used on my own 'Ring leaderboards on this site and gotten many positive comments on.

7) Left align all columns on the leaderboard. It will make them easier to quickly visually scan. That will become more important when there was many laps posted.

8) Make the laptime bold. Again it will make everything easier to visually scan.

9) Instead of the laptime linking to the car/setup info it would make more sense to have the car name be the link and the laptime just be text....

10) "UNK" is what drivetrain? I assume it means "unknown"? If so, why? If you are submitting laps to a OLR database and don't know the drivetrain of your choosen car...ummm, I would think one needs to go back and learn some more. Imagine asking a F1 driver what layout their car is and that driver shrugging and going 'I don'know..."


11) Usernames link to show all laps for a given user, right? From a UI standpoint I'd expect that to link to the driver's GTP profile. If not then a link under said driver's lap to their profile on GTP. I also assume it is the same username/login used for this message board.

12) If you could drop the left hand nav and use this template (the side nav free template). That will give more room for the leaderboard columns....from a UI standpoint it isn't that bad since the link from here would be like going to another forum page (which is tosrta is anyway)....


and finally (Repost of a reply to "The wizard" from the main leadeboard forum)....

I agree with The Wizard...were the power number is taken from needs to be addressed. Also, like in GT3 OLR, where the time comes from needs to be choosen Remember in GT3 the time differed between replay theatre, the replay and the analyzer (right, it's been a while)...the difference was a tenth or two but in OLR that matters alot. Without even looking I can think of 3 difference hp/ps numbers displayed in GT4, I'm sure there is more too....

Please don't take my critiques as bad. I just want this GTP database to be the defacto one on the web. There never has been a "perfect" one (racing line and GT3times both had major issues, IMO) and GTP's should be that

 

[Event]

You mean you don't know where to look for the leaderboard itself?

Yeah, it is tough to find. I think we need an Icon where the GTP Insider used to be.

 

[Blackbird.]

To add to that maybe change "Fastest Laps" to "Leaderboard"?

 

[LoudMusic]

To add to that maybe change "Fastest Laps" to "Leaderboard"?

Ok, so there is in fact something different from the Leaderboard Forum? Because I'm seeing nothing special.

 

[Blackbird.]

Ok, so there is in fact something different from the Leaderboard Forum? Because I'm seeing nothing special.

Under the Gran Turismo 4 tab on the site there are links and near the bottom there is a link named "Fastest Laps" that takes you to the Leaderboard.

 

[TheWizard]

kensei covers it all 👍

I am going to copy and paste the issues that I addressed in the GTP Leaderboard Release coming soon! thread, here.

Here it is:

Just one clarification, this way everybody will post according to the same standards, which power should we go by?

There are at least 5 places (that I know of) where you can check the power of your vehicle:

1) Garage screen, where all the cars are listed
2) Car screen
3) Sell screen
4) Settings screen
5) Replay

I think the amount of power shown at the beginning of the Replay should be the one to go by.

Am I correct?

EDIT: I just saw your post, kensei. You make some really good points and I think those issues should be worked out 👍 I like the idea of a distinction between Arcade Mode and Gran Turismo Mode, and I also think that Weight should be listed as well. Same for the DVD Region. And the Power issue definitely needs to be addressed, such that only the time will need to be verified (provided the need) and not the power as well.

The Wizard.

 

[Blackbird.]

kensei covers it all 👍

I am going to copy and paste the issues that I addressed in the GTP Leaderboard Release coming soon! thread, here.

Here it is:

Just one clarification, this way everybody will post according to the same standards, which power should we go by?

There are at least 5 places (that I know of) where you can check the power of your vehicle:

1) Garage screen, where all the cars are listed
2) Car screen
3) Sell screen
4) Settings screen
5) Replay

I think the amount of power shown at the beginning of the Replay should be the one to go by.

Am I correct?

EDIT: I just saw your post, kensei. You make some really good points and I think those issues should be worked out 👍 I like the idea of a distinction between Arcade Mode and Gran Turismo Mode, and I also think that Weight should be listed as well. Same for the DVD Region. And the Power issue definitely needs to be addressed, such that only the time will need to be verified (provided the need) and not the power as well.

The Wizard.

I'd definetley say the HP read on the replay because that is telling you the HP your car had during that race.

 

[Event]

I'd definetley say the HP read on the replay because that is telling you the HP your car had during that race.

I'm thinking that the settings screen is the most accurate.

 

[Blackbird.]

I'm thinking that the settings screen is the most accurate.

Well I don't see how if you're posting a lap time. Then you would want to read the power that a replay says your car had during that race/lap.

 

[TheWizard]

I'd definetley say the HP read on the replay because that is telling you the HP your car had during that race.

I thought so too, and that makes the most sense to me as well. I just thought it should be explicitly stated, such that everybody uses the same standard. Also, for the lap time, I would say the one stated in the Replay is the one to be used, even if there is not the issue that was present with GT3 anymore. The time you see on the screen at the end of the Replay and the time stamped on the Replay File itself coincide.

So, there should be no problems there.

The Wizard.

 

[Event]

Well I don't see how if you're posting a lap time. Then you would want to read the power that a replay says your car had during that race/lap.

Well, the settings screen is probably the most accurate reading, since all the vital info of your car is in there.

 

[Blackbird.]

Well, the settings screen is probably the most accurate reading, since all the vital info of your car is in there.

Either way, I would prefer the replay's reading.

Anyways, lets just drop it and let Jordan decide what's best.

 

[LoudMusic]

Is there a thread somewhere that with discussion about those discrepancies?

 

[TheWizard]

Well, the settings screen is probably the most accurate reading, since all the vital info of your car is in there.

The Settings screen does not reflect the real value. I think the value shown on the Replay, at the beginning of it, is the one that should be used.

I just made a Guide (hopefully the moderators will let it through) that explains that the Power value shown on the Power and Torque Graph (top right corner, inside the Settings screen) does not reflect the units chosen in the Options menu. The units appended to the value change, but the number itself stays always the same. That value is in PS. The only way of viewing the Power in the correct units (the ones chosen in the Options menu) is either go to the Car Screen (where you can see the car rotating), go to the Sell Screen, or bring up the bigger version of the Power and Torque Graph (in the Settings screen, by pressing Start).

The value shown at the beginning of the Replay reflects the units chosen in the Options menu, and is the real amount of power the car had while the racer was making the lap, therefore, in my opinion, should be the right one to use.

EDIT:

Is there a thread somewhere that with discussion about those discrepancies?

I have just made a Guide about it, it will be posted (if the moderators let it through) in the general GT4 Forum.

The Wizard.

 

[Small_Fryz]

I also helped wizard with his guide, and i agree with him, the hp and time should be taken from what you see at the start and end of the replay, thus everything gets confirmed with a simple .xps/.sps/.max file.

All easy to use and verify.

 

[Sage]

Instead of "Not Submitted" for missing settings, can they just be blank?

 

[Jordan]

Damn. Why do I have to go and do crazy things like this? I'll be wishing I hadn't opened this can of worms for the next few weeks.

1) Is there no distinction between Arcade mode and GT (Sim) mode? There should be. When submitting your time you should be asked which mode and on the leaderboard maybe it shows an icon or two different categories. Also when submitting arcade car times you need to ask/know the power and weight modifiers and gearing (for race cars only).

The leaderboard will be expanded to include Arcade mode. This is currently the fastest laps in Simulation Mode, as I've updated the section title to "Fastest Laps (Simulation Mode)".

2) If I am in the "Gt4 - fastest laps" I would expect to see ONLY the GT4 circuits and cars (filtered) as options to choose. Right now you see all circuits and cars in the database. Confusing for a newb thinking "Where is Cathedral Rocks in GT4?" or "Which Ruf Yellowbird is the GT4 one?" I think the car options are the bigger issue. Right now the Ruf section is a mess, hard to tell which car is what from what version of the game.

Right. The tracks actually are filtered for each individual game. The cars are not, but I'll see what I can do. This will probably require the deletion of all times already submitted.

4) What if we have a game version not in HP? I own the NTSC-J version and my version is in PS. 180ps is not 180hp, close but not the same. Are those of us with non native HP game version supposed to convert on our own or does the database figure it out? The solution would be to put a pull down next to the power field with HP, PS....etc that the user has to choose then the DB figures it out. If not then you need to link to a site to convert ps to hp so everyone is using the same conversion. You don't want to get into debates as to how the power was converted, etc. You'll have enough on your plate verifying lap times...don't want to add power verification too.

Never crossed my mind. I'll add the link.

6) I think showing the tire(s) on the leaderboard listing ot vital too. I know it's in the lap info area but i think it needs to be listed on the leaderboard as well. Color code them too. I want to be able to visually scan the leaderboards and see who is running what tire quickly. It's a nice feature that I have used on my own 'Ring leaderboards on this site and gotten many positive comments on.

Which tires? Front and rear? This would also mean tire types would have to be a required entry.

7) Left align all columns on the leaderboard. It will make them easier to quickly visually scan. That will become more important when there was many laps posted.

Will do for the car names, the rest of the columns I will leave centered.

10) "UNK" is what drivetrain? I assume it means "unknown"? If so, why? If you are submitting laps to a OLR database and don't know the drivetrain of your choosen car...ummm, I would think one needs to go back and learn some more. Imagine asking a F1 driver what layout their car is and that driver shrugging and going 'I don'know..."

Good question. I'll have it removed.

I agree with The Wizard...were the power number is taken from needs to be addressed. Also, like in GT3 OLR, where the time comes from needs to be choosen Remember in GT3 the time differed between replay theatre, the replay and the analyzer (right, it's been a while)...the difference was a tenth or two but in OLR that matters alot. Without even looking I can think of 3 difference hp/ps numbers displayed in GT4, I'm sure there is more too....

The HP issue will be the one in the replay. I will add this. But you say the times are different???? Please clarify and tell me what is the generally accepted time is. That's wierd and I had never heard of this before.

Please don't take my critiques as bad. I just want this GTP database to be the defacto one on the web. There never has been a "perfect" one (racing line and GT3times both had major issues, IMO) and GTP's should be that

I don't take them bad at all. I appreciate them and I know these changes need to be made. It's just the reality of sitting down and doing all these things which is so demoralizing.

Instead of "Not Submitted" for missing settings, can they just be blank?

Yes.

 

[Blackbird.]

Right. The tracks actually are filtered for each individual game. The cars are not, but I'll see what I can do. This will probably require the deletion of all times already submitted.

Please no.

 

[TheWizard]

The HP issue will be the one in the replay. I will add this. But you say the times are different???? Please clarify and tell me what is the generally accepted time is. That's wierd and I had never heard of this before.

Jordan, thank you for all the work you are doing 👍
It might seem like a can of worms right now, but it's going to make GTPlanet and the Community even better than they are already, nonetheless.

About the difference in times, there is none. Not anymore. The time stated at the end of the Replay and the time stamped on the Replay File itself used to be different, in GT3.

They are not anymore, in GT4.

Quoting myself:

Also, for the lap time, I would say the one stated in the Replay is the one to be used, even if there is not the issue that was present with GT3 anymore. The time you see on the screen at the end of the Replay and the time stamped on the Replay File itself coincide.

Hope I can be of help.

The Wizard.

 

[Thirdeye]

Bah, just ran a decent time on Mid-field, too

 

[Jordan]

Oh, OK, well remember we have a GT3 leaderboard too (it covers all the GT games) so this is still an issue I will have to address.

 

[TheWizard]

Oh, OK, well remember we have a GT3 leaderboard too (it covers all the GT games) so this is still an issue I will have to address.

Oh, I see. I was not aware of the GT3 section of the Leaderboard.

Then may I suggest, for the time to be posted, for it to be required to be the one stated in the actual Replay File? (Not the time shown on the screen just before the car crosses the Finish line). As this is how it's been done in the WRS.

The time shown on the screen is 0.1-0.2 faster than the actual lap time (shown on the the Replay Theater, when you select a Replay File, at the bottom of the screen).

The Wizard.

 

[Jordan]

Bizarre...yeah we'll do the one on the save file, because that's the one that will have to be verified.

 

[Blackbird.]

Oh, I see. I was not aware of the GT3 section of the Leaderboard.

Then may I suggest, for the time to be posted, for it to be required to be the one stated in the actual Replay File? (Not the time shown on the screen just before the car crosses the Finish line). As this is how it's been done in the WRS.

The time shown on the screen is 0.1-0.2 faster than the actual lap time (shown on the the Replay Theater, when you select a Replay File, at the bottom of the screen).

The Wizard.

Well if everyone went off the same number the one shown up on the screen after running that lap it wouldn't be a problem then. Everyone would run off the same time: .1-0.2 faster then there real time. Unless some people use the replay file one I can see the problem.

 

[Event]

Uhh... shouldn't you have the reverse tracks in there too?

 

[kensei]

Right. The tracks actually are filtered for each individual game. The cars are not, but I'll see what I can do. This will probably require the deletion of all times already submitted.

When I looked earlier today I saw "Cathedral Rocks" in the GT4 section along with many Rufs that aren't in Gt4, and two yellowbirds, etc etc...maybe you have changed this since I looked around 7pm.

Which tires? Front and rear? This would also mean tire types would have to be a required entry.

They aren't now? They should be....

Required info for any leaderboard should be;

lap time
username
car
hp/ps (power)
weight
tires

at the VERY least..

And yes, front and rear. Some people mix tires in Gt Mode but I have yet to see someone running S2s front/R5s rear. The GT3 drifters were the only ones I remember ever seeing mixing different types of tires front/rear.

Arcade cars can only run same sets of tires....and for that matter normal cars can only run N or S tires and race cars R tires...

Never crossed my mind. I'll add the link.

Link for what? ps to hp covertor? If so I have been using this one with good results.