Clutch in GT5 compared to real life

[Rekve]

I've been wondering for some time now, so I figured I might as well go and ask: how does the clutch in GT5 (when using a wheel and in particular the G27) compare to using a clutch in real life?
As in how you start the car from a complete stand-still, shift up and especially down when braking hard.

I'd also like if anyone could enlighten me on how to use the clutch when shifting down (in game). I always seem to create an unpleasant high-pitch rev-related noise whenever I let go of the clutch. Should I just release it slower or is there another way?
And lastly, when shifting down, should I declutch, go down a gear, release clutch, declutch again, go down another gear etc., or should I just keep the clutch down and go down to whatever gear I want to? I know it depends IRL for diesel and gas driven cars, but this is just gamewise, so no need to get technical.

I'm asking since I got my G27 a couple of weeks ago and I just started taking my driving license as well. I haven't gotten into a car as of yet, but I figured it might prove to be a wise choice to practice what I can a bit, before I have to face the maneuver-course, in fear of stalling every other second. I'll get more for my money's worth that way.

If you have any ideas for practical exercises I can do on the Top Gear track while you guys practice hotlaps for the Coulthard Challenge they'd be more than welcome as well.
Just help me out with whatever part you can/will, you don't have to explain everything. Thanks in advance and

TL;DR
read title, also, how to properly shift down with clutch in game.

 

[iamjajo]

It's really hard to stall a car in the game. You have to hold the brake and release the clutch.

The clutch in the game has no feel (to me). It feels like it is either on or off. When I let out the clutch in my real car (M3) it's very gradual progressive grab until the pedal is at the top. But, I drove a new corvette a few weeks ago and the clutch feel was completely different. It grabbed very strong at the bottom of the pedal and I could easily stall the car.

The G27 clutch is pretty fussy about shifting - up or down. You have to press the clutch fully before trying to select a gear. In real life you have much more leeway by putting pressure on the shift lever you can select a gear before the clutch is fully pressed.

 

[gogatrs]

I can't speak for the realism of the clutch, because I've never actually driven a car IRL.
But I can tell you how to properly downshift while braking.
It may seem like a lot, but with practice, it will come.
I was able to nearly master this in less than a month.

1) Right foot on brake pedal
2) Clutch in
3) Move gear stick to neutral position
4) release clutch
5) with the heel of your right foot, your toe still on the brake, quickly stab the gas
6) clutch in
7) put in gear
8) release clutch
9) turn

With practice, you should be able to do this in less than two seconds.
This will keep the car balanced. If you do it well IRL, you won't even feel the car downshifting. It also preserves your clutch.

This is known as heel and toe. And sometimes referred to as a double clutch.

Keep practicing this and eventually you'll get it.

 

[savage388]

I've never driven with the clutch on the game but people say there's no modulation meaning it's either in or out. I can drive a clutch IRL and the most important thing is the ability to let the clutch out smoothly. So with no feel or slip the clutch in the game will be nothing like IRL and it might be worse to try to practice in the game for real life driving.

 

[seanneedscar]

ive been driving stick shift cars since i was 15

(about 8 years now)

and let me tell you, as good as the g25/g27 wheels are, the clutch / 6 speed shifter is just above useless.

the 'clutch' itself doesnt even function as a clutch would. its basically a 'button' that puts the car in neutral. you wouldnt be able to 'feather' a launch, ect. either in gear, or neutral. no middle area.

also, changing gears is extremely frustrating. you have to completely take your foot off the gas, put the clutch in, switch gears, and let the clutch out. if you have the slightest amount of gas when you put the clutch in, it wont change the gear (even if youve moved the shifter, it will stay in neutral, you have to take the shifter out of its gear and re-shift) anyone who's ever driven a manual car can tell you this is far from realistic

but its slow as hell anyway. its fun if you are in the mood for 'ultra realistic' driving experience, but you'd get smoked by the guy using the paddle shifters. (or automatic for that matter)

 

[Crazed_Coupe]

ive been driving stick shift cars since i was 15

(about 8 years now)

and let me tell you, as good as the g25/g27 wheels are, the clutch / 6 speed shifter is just above useless.

the 'clutch' itself doesnt even function as a clutch would. its basically a 'button' that puts the car in neutral. you wouldnt be able to 'feather' a launch, ect. either in gear, or neutral. no middle area.

also, changing gears is extremely frustrating. you have to completely take your foot off the gas, put the clutch in, switch gears, and let the clutch out. if you have the slightest amount of gas when you put the clutch in, it wont change the gear (even if youve moved the shifter, it will stay in neutral, you have to take the shifter out of its gear and re-shift) anyone who's ever driven a manual car can tell you this is far from realistic

but its slow as hell anyway. its fun if you are in the mood for 'ultra realistic' driving experience, but you'd get smoked by the guy using the paddle shifters. (or automatic for that matter)

1. Although it obviously doesn't preform exactly like a clutch it still recreates one quite well and you can defiantly get the idea from the G25/27.

2. The gas can be down at about 15% but any more than that and you'll get shot into neutral but you can still shift will a slight bit of acceleration on the throttle. I'm also pretty sure that GT5 and/or Logitech implemented the fact that you can't shift will hardly any throttle because most everyone would slam through the gears with full throttle because it's quicker and of course the person using the wheel has no real car to destroy so I can see why they put the "throttle lock" in the game.

 

[Tompie913]

The main problem with GT5's clutch support is that it is not progressive at all. It's either fully on or fully off.

The main differences can be seen in starting and shifting. (i.e. the only times you really use the clutch anyway).

In real life when starting, you push the clutch in fully, rev the engine, and slowly (usually) let the clutch out. This is not possible in GT5, as you can't let the clutch out slowly at all. In GT5, the only way to let it out is suddenly and completely. In a real car, this could stall the car if you are giving it too little gas or cause it to do a burnout if you are giving it too much (and if the car has enough torque).

Now in GT5, I don't think it's actually possible to do a burnout, so the only way to start a car with the clutch in GT5 is to rev to nearly the redline and let the clutch out.

So for example: in my real Corvette, I don't really need to rev to more than about 2000 rpm to start on a level surface. If I tried to start from 2000 rpm in GT5, I would stall.

The other problem is shifting. In real life, you don't really need to take your foot off the throttle at all to upshift (though it is generally advisable). Downshifting is a bit different; I think that there is such a thing as shifting into a gear that is too low for your speed (e.g. 4th to 1st at 120 mph). Regardless, you can generally have your foot on the throttle at least a bit while upshifting or downshifting.

Now in GT5, most people seem to say that you can't shift if you have any throttle input while using the clutch. I don't think this is quite true. I think that it won't register the shift if the engine is past a certain number of revs. So in GT5, you push the clutch in and have the gas in somewhat, then put the shifter in neutral. It will always register the change to neutral even if you don't have the clutch in (in real life, you do have to put the clutch in to move the shifter at all - unless you want to grind gears). So you are then in neutral, but then if you have the gas in somewhat, the revs might be past a certain number (I don't know what it is or if it differs between cars), and it won't register the new gear you've selected, and stay in neutral. Basically, it's very easy to miss shifts. It's also seems to be easier to miss shifts from first to second than anything else, because it seems like the revs don't drop as quickly when going from first to neutral.

So if I'm shifting in my real car, I don't always let the gas the whole way out, and I shift just fine. In GT5, doing the same thing can and often does leave me in neutral. The only way I could get a similar result in real life is if I didn't push the clutch in far enough. I may not be able to get into neutral without an awful grinding noise, but more likely, I will get a grinding sound going into the next gear, leaving me in neutral (or if I'm really stupid, grinding my gears) until I push my clutch in further. In GT5, you would basically have to barely push the clutch in at all to encounter the same problem, and you certainly wouldn't get a sense of the damage you're doing. (I have heard that Forza actually has a grinding sound when you shift without the clutch, and that overall Forza has better clutch support, but I've never played Forza, and that's another topic).

---

Now, as for how to use the clutch in the game: First off, you should remember that if you really want to be fast, you should just use the sequential shifters. But it can be fun to use the clutch.

As I said above, it is very easy to miss shifts, and just about the only way to be fairly sure of avoiding them is by shifting significantly slower. Naturally, this will slow your lap times a bit. I have gotten just as fast lap times with the clutch as with the sequential, but the difference is that I also get many laps that are much slower because of missed shifts. If you shift slower, it will likely mean consistent but slower lap times. Neither way is ideal or realistic.

As for downshifting, it does help if you let the clutch out between shifts. If you leave the clutch in, the only things slowing you down are your brakes. When you let the clutch out, the engine also slows the wheels as it loses revs, adding to the stopping power of your brakes. You just need to be careful of downshifting too quickly which can cause your car to become unstable.

Like I said though, because the clutch is unrealistic, it is slower and more difficult to use then either the sequential and automatic or a real manual. It is still fun to use just as long as you're only driving for fun. I like using it with some of the cars that actually have it to give them more of an accurate feel, and it does give you a general sense of using a manual, though it's definitely different from actually using one. Basically what it feels like is driving a car with the worst manual transmission in the world.

 

[tuga703]

I don't know about the G27 but in my fanatec carrera there is a middle point with the clutch where there is clutch slip and you can get the car moving without the revs matching the car speed, the problem is this middle area is extremely small so it is pretty much useless unless you are drag racing with the suzuki gsxr4 or the catheram so you don't lose all the revs and therefore all the power when you drop the clutch.

 

[Rekve]

Thanks for the answers guys, and especially you Tompie, that was very thourugh. All of it really helped. 👍
As for now, I think that I'll just stick to learning the basics of using the clutch IRL and race in GT5 with the H-shifter without the clutch.
No reason to struggle with the two different ways of using the clutch simultaneously, and might as well learn to drive 'slow' IRL before I up the pace in GT5.
Again, thanks

 

[Crazed_Coupe]

Thanks for the answers guys, and especially you Tompie, that was very thourugh. All of it really helped. 👍
As for now, I think that I'll just stick to learning the basics of using the clutch IRL and race in GT5 with the H-shifter without the clutch.
No reason to struggle with the two different ways of using the clutch simultaneously, and might as well learn to drive 'slow' IRL before I up the pace in GT5.
Again, thanks

I would use the the clutch if I were you, even though you might be having some trouble with it. People who buy a wheel with the H shifter and a clutch but don't use either/or makes me cringe.

 

[Rekve]

I would use the the clutch if I were you, even though you might be having some trouble with it. People who buy a wheel with the H shifter and a clutch but don't use either/or makes me cringe.

Well, I meant as for now. I can see myself use it in-game in the future, once I've learned to deal with it IRL.
I don't really want to confuse myself more than necessary being just introduced to both driving for real and with a wheel in GT.
I'll have plenty of problems just by learning to use a clutch in one way.

 

[Tompie913]

I actually learned the clutch on GT5 before I learned the real thing, and I didn't feel that it made it harder or more confusing for me to learn the real thing. If anything, I'd say that it helped a bit.

The only difficult part of learning a manual is starting, and GT5 doesn't teach you how to do that all, so it certainly won't "interfere" or confuse you. In fact, apart from being prone to missing shifts, GT5 does get the whole shifting motion down rather accurately, so it may help to teach you how to shift.

 

[Crazed_Coupe]

Well, I meant as for now. I can see myself use it in-game in the future, once I've learned to deal with it IRL.
I don't really want to confuse myself more than necessary being just introduced to both driving for real and with a wheel in GT.
I'll have plenty of problems just by learning to use a clutch in one way.

I see, either way I hope it goes smoothly for you!

 

[Rekve]

I actually learned the clutch on GT5 before I learned the real thing, and I didn't feel that it made it harder or more confusing for me to learn the real thing. If anything, I'd say that it helped a bit.

The only difficult part of learning a manual is starting, and GT5 doesn't teach you how to do that all, so it certainly won't "interfere" or confuse you. In fact, apart from being prone to missing shifts, GT5 does get the whole shifting motion down rather accurately, so it may help to teach you how to shift.

I'll give it a shot then.
Thing is though, I'm getting into the drivers seat for the first time tomorrow and I'll therefore have to learn both on the same time.
That's why I'm a bit concerned about going to hard on the real car when shifting, I really don't want to mess something up. I'm probably way to concerned about this and will forget about it in the first few hours, but still.
After all, I'll most likely end up using the clutch sometimes in GT5 along the way to see if It'll help improve my confidence with clutching IRL, so it was very nice to get a rundown on the differences, so I'll know what different characteristics to look out for between the two. 👍

And thanks coupe, smoothness is indeed what I'm hoping for as well.

 

[Greycap]

I don't know about the G27 but in my fanatec carrera there is a middle point with the clutch where there is clutch slip and you can get the car moving without the revs matching the car speed, the problem is this middle area is extremely small [...]

That's how it is with the Logitechs (G25 just been tested) too, many people just don't seem to possess enough accuracy to find the spot and conclude that it's on/off. I'd say there's perhaps an inch of travel from "barely engaged" to "fully engaged" and while it takes a while to find the "creeping point" it's very manageable after that.

 

[khooke]

Regarding using the clutch in the game for practice for real life, if it gives you an idea of the concept then that's probably useful. I don't have a wheel for GT5, but from what I hear, the on/off nature of the clutch in the game is not typical of a real car. With a real clutch there's a point where you feel the clutch starting to bite, and you can only learn what that feels like from practice in a real car. It's also different from car to car (although the concept is the same).

It's strange when you think back to learning how to drive manual, working out how to use the clutch seems like one of the hardest things to do while you're worrying about other stuff, like steering at the same time(!), but it's funny how after a while it just becomes second nature and you get to a point where you do it without thinking. Get out there and practice - be safe and have fun!

 

[5.7L]

That's double clutching, useless in gt5. It's easier to just rev match downshift, still using the heel toe technique.

I can't speak for the realism of the clutch, because I've never actually driven a car IRL.
But I can tell you how to properly downshift while braking.
It may seem like a lot, but with practice, it will come.
I was able to nearly master this in less than a month.

1) Right foot on brake pedal
2) Clutch in
3) Move gear stick to neutral position
4) release clutch
5) with the heel of your right foot, your toe still on the brake, quickly stab the gas
6) clutch in
7) put in gear
8) release clutch
9) turn

With practice, you should be able to do this in less than two seconds.
This will keep the car balanced. If you do it well IRL, you won't even feel the car downshifting. It also preserves your clutch.

This is known as heel and toe. And sometimes referred to as a double clutch.

Keep practicing this and eventually you'll get it.