Coronavirus Thread

Discussion in 'Opinions & Current Events' started by baldgye, Jan 24, 2020.

  1. baldgye

    baldgye Premium

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    This is dominating the headlines with many outlets and doctors worried that this will be worse than SARS and that the Chinese government learned little from the SARS outbreak. The Chinese Gov have already been accused of trying to cover up the infection rather than actually dealing with it.

    Death toll is currently 25 with over 800 people infected. There is a map here, showing the spread of the infection and confirmed deaths.
     
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  2. Liquid

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    It's not that they didn't learn anything, they don't care enough to do anything preventative.
     
  3. Touring Mars

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    Really? China is taking pretty drastic measures to limit the outbreak, which probably includes limiting the spread of false or inaccurate information. The fact is that virus outbreaks cannot be prevented entirely, only limited - and, paradoxically, they have to be pretty certain that an outbreak is happening or is about to happen before taking drastic preventative measures, which means that there has to be multiple confirmed cases to classify it is an outbreak.

    The evidence (thus far) shows that the outbreak has been caught (and reported) early, and the Chinese government are acting to stop it from spreading... but there is only so much they can do.
     
  4. Liquid

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    I'm sure once a situation arises they'll act to stop the spread of both the virus and misinformation but China's lax attitude to environmental law and public health law doesn't really do much to stop these things happening and spreading in the first place. There are numerous environmental and pollution issues in China and improvements over the last 20 years might be there but they're inadequate; it doesn't keep pace with the rapid industrialisation and desire for, in lieu of a better term, "results". Water quality in particular is exceptionally poor outside of the major metropolitan areas and is an easy breeding ground for disease and sickness.

    I'm just not surprised that something like this has sadly occurred.
     
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  5. Dennisch

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    I blame it on the nasty eating habits, and complete lack of hygiene. Seeing how disgusting the Chinese tourists can be, I can only imagine how awful the Chinese cities are.
     
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  6. Rage Racer

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    China has experience dealing with epidemics. After SARS, there were some more cases like the Dengue fever outbreaks (e.g. in Hainan), but they were eliminated very quickly. Their healthcare system has clear instructions what to do in such cases, and they do it well, as I read.

    Wuhan, the city where the outbreak started, is now sealed off by the military. The photos and vids remind of a zombie apocalypse movie. :sick:

    This has nothing to do with air pollution. :ouch:
    The coronavirus came from the animals. Particularly, bats in this case, as they say. I guess some food market failed at hygiene and :censored: hit the fan.
     
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  7. Dennisch

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    That was just one nasty picture of a woman eating one, currently they're reporting that it's a snake virus.

    Edit.

    CNN is reporting that some scientists claim that it's a snake virus, so take that news with a pile of salt.
     
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  8. Rallywagon

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    My understanding is that the virus passed to humans from snakes, andnpassed to snakes from bats. Whatever the case may be, it appears to be quite contagious amd easily transmittable. 13 cities in China I believe are now being quarantined. Infected people have been found in the US, Australia, Thialand, Taiwan, Vietnam and South Korea.
    I am going to have to agree with Liquid on this. If the Chinese gov gave a damn, they would have put on a campaign to end both the superstitions about some of the foods they eat, and put in regulations to quell the eating of wild animals after the SARS outbreak. Instead of being proactive though, they instead planned to be reactive, and so here we are, about to meet Cpt. Trips. Thankfully the death toll is below 1% right now.
     
  9. Liquid

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    I didn't say that it was. I said it was the lax attitude to things like environmental law and hygiene that means an occurrance like this is not surprising.
     
  10. Touring Mars

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  11. Tappajakoala

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    Two chinese tourists from Wuhan had to go hospital at small town of Ivalo at North Finland due getting sick. Samples were rushed to Helsinki and it takes some time to diagnose if this is coronavirus too.

    This is like live Plaque Inc.

    Friday evening edit: False alarm fortunately. Those two fellows had common flu.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2020
  12. Dennisch

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  13. baldgye

    baldgye Premium

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    This was one of the articles I read, basically going against what you're saying. I don't really know which is right, and yes it's just an opinion.
     
  14. Rallywagon

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    Pay walled....
     
  15. Dotini

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  16. PeterJB

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    Somehow I get the feeling it's spread by airborne aerosols from coughing and sneezing and touching infected surfaces, like every other flu virus.
     
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  17. Dennisch

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    Is China Setting Itself Up for Another Epidemic? The Wuhan outbreak shows that the Chinese government didn’t learn enough from the SARS epidemic. By Yanzhong Huang Mr. Huang is a global-health expert specializing in China. Jan. 23, 2020 Face masks were ubiquitous at the Hankou railway station in Wuhan, China, which is at the center of a coronavirus outbreak that has killed at least 17 people. Face masks were ubiquitous at the Hankou railway station in Wuhan, China, which is at the center of a coronavirus outbreak that has killed at least 17 people.Credit...Xiaolu Chu/Getty Images On Sunday, a friend of mine in China wrote an ominous, two-word post on WeChat: “Broke out.” He meant that a mysterious surge in cases of pneumonia in Wuhan, a city in central China, was, in fact, an outbreak of something more serious. The first case of the Wuhan virus was detected on Dec. 12. Until last Thursday, only 45 cases, with two deaths, all in Wuhan, had been reported, and no health care workers were said to have been infected. The virus was mild, we were told then, with no evidence of human-to-human transmission; all confirmed cases seemed to originate from a food market where live animals are sold. On Jan. 11, local health authorities even suggested that the outbreak was over because they hadn’t registered any new case since Jan. 3. By Wednesday, though, 17 deaths and more than 470 cases had been confirmed. Cases of ill travelers from Wuhan have been reported in Hong Kong, Taiwan, Thailand, Japan, South Korea and the United States. Disease-modeling experts at Imperial College, in London, have estimated that as many as 4,000 to 9,700 people could be infected just in Wuhan, a city of more than 11 million people. According to Guan Yi, a virologist based in Hong Kong, the trajectory of the Wuhan virus parallels the early spread of SARS, the virus that spread to 29 countries, sickened thousands and killed 774 people in 2002 and 2003. Perhaps just as worrisome: The government’s response today seems remarkably similar to its response back then. The Chinese government’s initial response to SARS was, at least at the national level, a combination of inaction, denial and deception. The earliest case of SARS occurred in mid-November 2002; it’s clear that by late January of 2003 the Health Ministry was aware of a dangerous new type of pneumonia in Guangdong Province. Yet the government did not issue a nationwide bulletin to hospitals with instructions for preventing the spread of the disease until April 3. And it was not until mid-April that it formally listed SARS as a disease to be closely monitored, with daily reports. ImageHealth care workers on duty at the Beijing airport in April 2003 as part of an effort to halt the spread of SARS. Health care workers on duty at the Beijing airport in April 2003 as part of an effort to halt the spread of SARS.Credit...Ng Han Guan/Associated Press In the wake of that debacle, the Chinese government does seem to have become more willing to share disease-related information with both its people and international health organizations. But the government continues its top-down, state-dominated approach in disease surveillance, reporting and response. Global health experts have pointed out that this time around, the government was tight-lipped for two weeks after the onset of the Wuhan virus. Yes, it shared the virus’s genetic sequence, but only under increasing pressure from the international scientific community. For a time, the government tried to restrict the release of any information related to the disease. Local police departments threatened to punish anyone who spread “false information” about the outbreak. Only two quasi-independent media outlets in China, Caijing and Caixin, provided extensive coverage on the disease, and there was little discussion of the virus on Chinese social media. According to Caixin, 15 health care workers were infected in Wuhan between Jan. 12 and Jan. 21. Yet the local health authorities — presumably in an attempt to play down the seriousness of the situation — chose not to report that fact until after Monday, after the government warned that any official who tried to cover up information about the virus, or delay reporting, would be “nailed on the pillar of shame for eternity.” Editors’ Picks The Big Myth Behind the ‘Real New Yorker’ Jan. 24, 2020 Dick Cheney and Colin Powell: The Odd Couple Jan. 14, 2020 Olivia Palermo Got a Lot Out of That Internship Jan. 14, 2020 In Germany, a Jewish Millennial Argues That the Past Isn’t Past Jan. 16, 2020 This Austrian Village Wants ‘Frozen’ Fans to Let It Go Jan. 17, 2020 The Sex Scene Evolves for the #MeToo Era Jan. 14, 2020 10 Years Later, an Oscar Experiment That Actually Worked Jan. 22, 2020 My AirPods Fell Through a Subway Grate. Here’s How I Got Them Back. Jan. 21, 2020 Can ‘Star Trek’ Chart a Way Forward? Jan. 16, 2020 Take a Look at These Rarely Seen Andy Warhol Photos Jan. 14, 2020 As a result, people in China were poorly informed about the outbreak in its early days, when its spread might have been contained more easily. When I mentioned the Wuhan virus to some of my high school classmates in a WeChat group last week, one of them, who happens to live in Wuhan, was offended. “Our country’s disease prevention and control system has been very well developed and is transparent,” he responded. “Only overseas people are panicking for us.” That could be part of the problem: On Monday, 40,000 families in the city held potluck banquets to celebrate the coming Lunar New Year. The next day, municipal authorities were trying to lure more tourists to the city by distributing 200,000 coupons for free events. Needless to say, encouraging large groups of people to come together in the epicenter of a potential outbreak is not an effective health strategy. Along with its information semi-blackout, the government has failed to respond effectively. Yes, the Chinese Center for Disease Control and Prevention started an investigation immediately after the first cases of the mysterious pneumonia were identified. The Wuhan health authorities also conducted epidemiological investigations. On Jan. 1, they closed down the market where the first cases of infection were traced. And this week they halted travel to or from Wuhan. Then again, back when SARS broke out, China’s health authorities also responded relatively well at the very beginning. The problems started when the government then failed to undertake effective measures to prevent the disease from spreading further. Both the Wuhan and the central health authorities could already have done much more to stem the spread of this new virus, including asking people to take precautions like wearing masks. Many suspected cases in Wuhan reportedly were not tested for the disease or quarantined; some people were simply sent home from the hospital without having been screened. Outside Wuhan, even as the number of patients with pneumonialike symptoms has increased, the authorities may have been reluctant to report cases because the three-step confirmation procedure set out by the central government is so cumbersome. As a result, no new cases were reported in China beyond Wuhan between Dec. 12 and Monday, and yet cases were surfacing overseas. Some Chinese sarcastically took to calling the virus “patriotic” — a disease more interested in infecting people overseas than in China. But this virus is anything but patriotic. It is exploding in China and spreading to other countries, much as SARS did in 2003. Has the Chinese government fundamentally changed its response to a possible epidemic since then? It appears not, or at least not enough. And to my surprise, people in China, including some in the know, seem to agree. “From 2003 to 2020,” according to one article shared by a government adviser on a WeChat group, Beijing’s “conduct has not changed at all.” Yanzhong Huang is a senior fellow for global health at the Council on Foreign Relations and a professor at Seton Hall University’s School of Diplomacy and International Relations. The Times is committed to publishing a diversity of letters to the editor. We’d like to hear what you think about this or any of our articles. Here are some tips. And here’s our email: letters@nytimes.com. Follow The New York Times Opinion section on Facebook, Twitter (@NYTopinion) and Instagram. Review our cookie policy


    Here you go. Sorry for the crap formatting.
     
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  18. Rallywagon

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    14 cities, including Wuhan. Wuhan itself is now struggling to find enough supplies for their hospitals to treat people and are asking for support. I am guessing the death toll is going to sharply incline under these circumstances.
     
  19. baldgye

    baldgye Premium

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    You can make a free account... but because I'm a nice guy

     
  20. Liquid

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    [​IMG]
     
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  21. Dotini

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    Last edited: Jan 24, 2020
  22. Touring Mars

    Touring Mars Moderator

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    The article says that the Chinese government’s reaction to this outbreak is ‘remarkably similar’ to the SARS outbreak in 2003, and yet also points out that the SARS outbreak was only considered a public health emergency almost 6 months after the first case was reported. That’s a key point and a major difference between this outbreak and the SARS epidemic, so I’m struggling to see how/why it is so ‘remarkably similar’.

    The fact is that it is not possible to pre-empt a novel virus outbreak - it takes time to establish what is behind a public health crisis (in this case an increase in people presenting with (and dying from) pneumonia-like symptoms), and hence by the time the virus has been identified, it is likely already too late to stop an outbreak of some description. But until such a time as the correct culprit has been identified - in this case a never-before-seen variant of coronavirus - then it is hard to see what steps the government can reasonably take.

    The first case apparently dates back to December 12th, with a cluster of incidences being identified on 31st December. The apparent source of the cluster - a seafood market - was closed the next day. The viral source of the outbreak was isolated on 7th January, and the genetic sequence of the novel virus was released to the international scientific community on 12th January. Since then, Wuhan and neighbouring towns/cities have effectively been shut down - over the Chinese New year celebrations. In my estimation, this is almost nothing like the reaction to SARS.

    That said, I accept the more general point about China itself not learning the lessons of the past and continuing to operate wet markets and have dire public health standards etc., but debating that right now is not exactly going to help.
     
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  23. MatskiMonk

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    You can have any virus you want, so long as it's a Corona.

    upload_2020-1-24_13-36-31.jpeg
     
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  24. baldgye

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    From my understanding of the article, its how the Chinese Gov initially dealt with the virus. The steps they took, where very similar to those taken from the SARS epidemic. But yeah, not my opinion, just a counter opinion
     
  25. Dotini

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    Thee are also some counter opinions expressed in this video with regard to the relevance with the SARS outbreak.

     
  26. Danoff

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    I assume Madagascar shipping and air travel is shut down.

    Too soon?
     
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  27. Dennisch

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    Greenland closed their ports too.
     
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  28. Dotini

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  29. Joey D

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    Do you know what goes well with Coronavirus? Lime disease.

    I'll get my coat.
     
  30. Danoff

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    That is a quality joke right there.
     
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