COVID-19/Coronavirus Information and Support Thread (see OP for useful links)

[CodeRedR51]

Anyone with the proper sources to give an update on the current situation in the US? Apparently the demand for vaccinations in my county is on a downward trend, not sure if that means a majority are getting or have been vaccinated, or if there's just that many people refusing...

 

[TJ13]

Anyone with the proper sources to give an update on the current situation in the US? Apparently the demand for vaccinations in my county is on a downward trend, not sure if that means a majority are getting or have been vaccinated, or if there's just that many people refusing...

70-80% of J&J have been reduced.
Due to the adverse reactions.

To put into perspective.
The government has allocated only 700,000 J&J shots to states next week, down from 4.9 million the week prior, according to CDC data.

So it's not so much refusing but supply issues again.

 

[Danoff]

Due to the adverse reactions.

Source?

 

[Joey D]

70-80% of J&J have been reduced.
Due to the adverse reactions.

The reduction isn't due to the adverse reactions, it's due to the manufacturing process being botched. Once the issues are sorted out and the Baltimore plant becomes FDA-approved, there won't be as much of an issue.

 

[Danoff]

The reduction isn't due to the adverse reactions

I took it in a different direction, aimed perhaps at an example like the one that happened at Dick's Sporting Goods in Colorado where they shut down administration for the day due to "adverse reactions". The CDC cross-checked the J&J lot with other sites administering it and found no similar outbreak of adverse reactions. The conclusion of the investigation was the people were nervous about needles, vaccinations, and maybe even J&J itself, and that when some people had dizziness or nausea due to anxiety, others became anxious and the process fed on itself.

Edit:

The briefing from the CO state government indicated some level of surprise that we've gone this long without seeing more of this kind of anxiety event.

 

[Joey D]

I took it in a different direction, aimed perhaps at an example like the one that happened at Dick's Sporting Goods in Colorado where they shut down administration for the day due to "adverse reactions". The CDC cross-checked the J&J lot with other sites administering it and found no similar outbreak of adverse reactions. The conclusion of the investigation was the people were nervous about needles, vaccinations, and maybe even J&J itself, and that when some people had dizziness or nausea due to anxiety, others became anxious and the process fed on itself.

That can definitely account for some of it. The J & J vaccine isn't being embraced like the Pfizer and Moderna ones and it's mainly the media's fault. When the effectiveness numbers were released, the media did a horrendous job of explaining why the J & J vaccine had a lower effectiveness percentage. I even had a hard time finding out actual information on it since it was seemingly buried away from some reason. It's being addressed now and we know that the reason for its lower effectiveness is due to it being tested against newer variants. It's likely the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are lower than the 95-ish percent when you factor in new variants.

What is important about the J & J vaccine is that during its trial phase no one who received was hospitalized. While people did get COVID, they didn't get a severe case of it which is what we want. No vaccine is going to be 100% effective (as much as Pfizer wants it to be), but reducing the severity of the illness can be pretty damn close to 100%.

 

[Stotty]

It's more the prospect that many/most parents of young kids will be in their 30s and 40s who are not getting a first jab until the school year is over.

A friend of mine is in this exact situation and tested positive yesterday, though she is thankfully (currently) not ill.

I personally would have prioritized parents of school-age children over the 40-60 cohort because I think that the risk posed by children is much greater than is being publicly acknowledged, though in practical terms this would be quite difficult to do.

What risk can children pose?

1. Everyone in the UK who is at risk of death from catching Covid is already vaccinated - 7.5M have had their 2nd dose as of 11/04, increasing by 450k each day last week.
2. Vaccination reduces chances of developing serious illness by 95%
3. No evidence for asymptomatic transmission according to the CDC - ie; 95% of those that have been vaccinated will not transmit it even if they catch it

Yes, some children will infect their parents and their parents might get ill as a result, but Covid doesn't kill healthy parents.. week ending March 26th, Covid was mentioned on the death certificate of just 3 people out the 110 40-44 year olds that died in the UK week. That's over 2 weeks ago and 7 day average deaths have fallen a 50% since then. The hospitals are effectively empty - under 3,000 hospitalised Covid cases in the UK.

There's no one left that Covid can seriously hurt.

It's time stop the fear, to move on and think positively. We need to get our lives and freedoms back and reconnect with our families and loved ones.

And the NHS needs to try and catch up on the 6 million less referrals made by GPs in 2020.

 

[Joey D]

but Covid doesn't kill healthy parents.

Well, that's just a flat-out lie. COVID can and does kill seemingly healthy people. It doesn't kill them at the same rate as people with comorbidities, but it does kill them or can make them incredibly sick.

There's no one left that Covid can seriously hurt.

The UK had 7 people die yesterday. Yes, it's low, but it's not zero.

It's time stop the fear, to move on and think positively.

It's time you stop posting blatantly false information. No, you don't need to live in fear, but you also shouldn't be thinking COVID is just no big deal.

 

[Danoff]

I agree with xkcd here and would take it a step further and say that we should be pursuing eradication of viruses in total. I don't know of any positive role viruses play on the planet, and they don't seem to be a necessity. COVID evolved into something devastating for the globe (to humans that is) from something that wasn't. That means we shouldn't be tolerating viruses which are not devastating now. We should be systematically targeting and eliminating known viruses from humans and other animals. Maybe if we're super successful we can get into discussing whether there are beneficial viruses that can be kept around and do more good than the risk they pose. But for now, let's take out the ones we know pose a threat or potential threat.

At a very minimum, we should be developing and testing vaccines for all of them. I've mentioned it before, but I see this as a global effort that needs cooperation of all nations.

 

[Joey D]

I don't know of any positive role viruses play on the planet

Phages can be used to infect bacteria and might be a solution to the overuse of antibiotics in the future. Past that though, I can't really think of a positive virus.

I do agree with xkcd here though, eradicating SARS-CoV-2 out of spite is something I approve of. It's disrupted society, now it's time for society to disrupt it out of existence.

 

[Touring Mars]

Everyone in the UK who is at risk of death from catching Covid is already vaccinated

What?!!

You've literally cited a statistic that contradicts your own claim...

You've just said yourself that some people in the 40-44 age range died a few weeks ago with Covid mentioned on their death certificate, and yet the 40-44 age range hasn't even begun to be vaccinated yet!!

Vaccination reduces chances of developing serious illness by 95%

Yes, thankfully. And yet less than half of the population has received both doses of the vaccine and fewer than 1 in 8 have received both doses, including the 70-80 y.o. cohort. My parents (combined age of 154) get their second shots in the first week of May.

No evidence for asymptomatic transmission according to the CDC

Source?

Here's a paper from the CDC that directly contradicts your unsupported statement:

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2774707

What risk can children pose?

Once again, I'll let you answer your own question:

Yes, some children will infect their parents and their parents might get ill as a result

... and indeed, they might also die.

...but Covid doesn't kill healthy parents..

You've literally just said yourself that parents can get ill, and yes, Covid DOES kill some otherwise healthy people, even in lower age cohorts. But yet again, your fixation with deaths is perplexing. Covid is causing untold suffering and debilitation to people in all age groups, including those with no prior conditions, so not only is your claim missing the point, it's also provably false.

Covid was mentioned on the death certificate of just 3 people out the 110 40-44 year olds that died in the UK week.

How many 40-44 year olds die in any given week? According to government statistics, it's about 80, but it varies.

But once again, you've literally just finished saying how case numbers are dropping significantly, so how the hell is it a surprise that 'just 3' people (in a lower risk cohort) died from Covid in that week?? I'm not even sure what your point is here anyway. If anything, given the low numbers of cases right now, and the normal number of deaths in that age range in any given week, three Covid deaths is really quite high.

There's no one left that Covid can seriously hurt.

Just. Wow.

It's time stop the fear, to move on and think positively.

Jesus H. Tapdancing Christ... "think positively"... why didn't someone say so sooner?!

We need to get our lives and freedoms back and reconnect with our families and loved ones.

And the NHS needs to try and catch up on the 6 million less referrals made by GPs in 2020.

Yes, indeed. But the NHS will not be able to clear the massive backlog if and when Covid surges again, which it undoubtedly would if everybody in the country acts and thinks like you, nor will family life return to normal either.

 

[Joey D]

Jesus H. Tapdancing Christ... "think positively"... why didn't someone say so sooner?!

Probably too busy boxing up all the thoughts and prayers to send to people?

 

[Outspacer]

I come back to the fundamental, but apparently unmentionable issue...

The financial cost of trying to potentially save another, say 20k lives (Worst case, and majority of them at or around natural life expectancy) is not a price worth paying.

The cure is far worse than the disease.

I’ll leave you to your hand wringing and we’re all going to die discussion.

And yet, since then (22 Sept 2020), we've had over 80 thousand more COVID deaths in the UK, despite months of lockdown.

Of course you were quiet when the deaths started to rise in November... 400, 500, 600... up to 1400 a day in January, with a month of over 1000 a day. You were quiet when hospitals were coping with almost double the numbers they were in the first peak - close to 40 thousand.

And now you pop up again with the same old tired arguments. Why do you even bother to read, let alone espouse, what Yeadon etc have to say when their predictions have been amply proven false again and again? (Not only by us here or the rational medics, but by actual hospitalisations and deaths).

 

[ShiftingGears]

Gotta give credit to the UK at the moment, they dug themselves a much deeper hole than other countries, but from an outsiders perspective they're crawling out of the hole much faster than almost everyone else.

 

[Joey D]

I admit I don't pay a ton of attention to Canada, but I really had no idea it was getting this bad up there:

Ontario hospitals may have to withhold care as COVID-19 fills ICUs

Also, I've posted in this thread before what these "doomsday plans" look like. It's really, really grim and horrendous for hospital morale and the mental well-being of the staff. Unfortunately, since humans are humans no matter where they live in the world, you're not going to be able to convince a sizeable chunk of people that there's a problem.

 

[McLaren]

So, with still no word on when my 2nd dose will actually be scheduled, what options do I have if they never update our group? Is it safe to basically "restart" the process elsewhere or could there be a risk of not only receiving the 1st dose again, but the possibility of mixing Pfizer & Moderna vaccines?

 

[Joey D]

So, with still no word on when my 2nd dose will actually be scheduled, what options do I have if they never update our group? Is it safe to basically "restart" the process elsewhere or could there be a risk of not only receiving the 1st dose again, but the possibility of mixing Pfizer & Moderna vaccines?

It's going to vary from health system to health system on how they will want you to proceed. Where I'm at, we're not restarting people at the moment since one dose provides adequate enough protection that you're likely not going to get severely ill if you happen to become infected with SARS-CoV-2. You'll still be sick, it's just that your body will potentially be able to fight off the virus quicker since your immune system will have some antibodies.

Initially, we were going on the 90-day plan where if you let 90 days lapse between shots you had to start over again. I just don't think there's enough evidence out there yet to say one way or another. I'm sure if a decent amount of time lapses between vaccines and you ask, you can probably restart the series again. It likely won't hurt anything, but you could feel like absolute garbage on your "third" shot. Depending on how long it takes, you might even end up getting the next-gen vaccine that will account for more variants. I mean I wouldn't wait for it, but silver linings and everything. I know I'm really not looking forward to having to get a booster shot sometime this autumn since the first round knocked me on my ass.

As for mixing Pfizer and Moderna, that too is going to be a health system thing. We definitely won't mix the two and we even have logic built into the scheduling system that prevents you from getting doses of two different vaccines. I believe the CDC said you could potentially get one of each, but I'd be skeptical of that. Our head pharmacist is very against it and he's one of the eggiest eggheads I work with, so I'm going to defer to his opinion until something else comes up. If push comes to shove though, I'd ask your doctor and then ask a few other medical experts for their opinion on it. From there you can make up your own mind about whether to mix vaccines or not, but I don't know how much data is really out there concerning it. The best way to take any drug though is to take it the way it was trialed since that's always going to have the best and most complete data set.

I know China is planning on doing a "study" to see what happens if you mix vaccines though. I don't know how ethical that study will be though so if the results do get published, it'll probably need to be taken with a grain of salt.

We have had people get one Pfizer and one Johnson & Johnson vaccine though and they didn't die or anything. We also had a handful of people get both Pfizer shots and a Johnson & Johnson shot so they could be supervaccinated or whatever. They didn't die either. We have a way to prevent people from doing this now though so it's no longer an issue, but when the vaccines first opened up to the more general population some people were trying to get stabbed left and right with whatever.

 

[Jezza819]

So, with still no word on when my 2nd dose will actually be scheduled, what options do I have if they never update our group? Is it safe to basically "restart" the process elsewhere or could there be a risk of not only receiving the 1st dose again, but the possibility of mixing Pfizer & Moderna vaccines?

Was your 2nd dose originally scheduled then they canceled it? Or were they just going to let you know when you could get your 2nd dose? Both of my shots were scheduled as soon as I was accepted. 2nd one is April 24th, three weeks after my first shot.

 

[Daz555]

Was your 2nd dose originally scheduled then they canceled it? Or were they just going to let you know when you could get your 2nd dose? Both of my shots were scheduled as soon as I was accepted. 2nd one is April 24th, three weeks after my first shot.

Different health authorities are handling bookings differently. Where I live in Bristol they are contacting people later for their 2nd booking but only a few miles down the road in North Somerset they are booking the 2nd appointment when you have your first one.

I'm 49 and had my first jab about 3 weeks ago. I should get a text in 4-6 weeks with the appointment for my 2nd jab.

 

[ryzno]

Looks like the J&J vaccine is being haulted for now. Can't post link, just got a notification.

 

[TJ13]

Looks like the J&J vaccine is being haulted for now. Can't post link, just got a notification.

US is recommending the "pause" while it investigates the potential of blood clots.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/13/health/johnson-vaccine-pause-cdc-fda/index.html

 

[Outspacer]

US calling for a pause in J&J vaccine as 6 cases of CVST reported out of 6.8 million doses given - BBC.

Same problem as AstraZeneca blood clots. Likely the number of cases will rise somewhat as it now becomes a priority to report them.

Gotta give credit to the UK at the moment, they dug themselves a much deeper hole than other countries, but from an outsiders perspective they're crawling out of the hole much faster than almost everyone else.

Nervously optimistic at this point, but way too soon to call it!

Big question mark is how it will turn out once the South African variant (or similar) gets loose. It keeps trying, and the latest cluster might well do it. Chile is back in lockdown despite having vaccinated almost as much as UK (although Sinovac rather than AstraZeneca). Brazil is seeing younger people hospitalised in worrying numbers.

 

[Daz555]

US calling for a pause in J&J vaccine as 6 cases of CVST reported out of 6.8 million doses given - BBC.

Same problem as AstraZeneca blood clots. Likely the number of cases will rise somewhat as it now becomes a priority to report them.




Nervously optimistic at this point, but way too soon to call it!

Big question mark is how it will turn out once the South African variant (or similar) gets loose. It keeps trying, and the latest cluster might well do it. Chile is back in lockdown despite having vaccinated almost as much as UK (although Sinovac rather than AstraZeneca). Brazil is seeing younger people hospitalised in worrying numbers.

Regular boosters, like with flu, seem inevitable. I'm ok with that.

 

[McLaren]

Was your 2nd dose originally scheduled then they canceled it? Or were they just going to let you know when you could get your 2nd dose? Both of my shots were scheduled as soon as I was accepted. 2nd one is April 24th, three weeks after my first shot.

My 2nd dose was scheduled when my initial appt. was made; 3 weeks between like usual. People in our county group are still asking, but they keep being told "we don't know just yet" on the rescheduled date. I'll give it another week before I do what Joey advises & look for one of his solutions.

 

[Touring Mars]

Meanwhile, Scotland's pubs can reopen in two weeks' time... but cannot serve alcohol indoors.

This explains what I saw at lunchtime today - a small street full of pubs near work (called Ashton Lane), and two bars are currently erecting massive canopies that will shelter folks standing outside.

The trouble is, there simply isn't enough room outside for people to safely socially distance, even in bars that have beer gardens, which one of these bars doesn't have.

Of course, people are raging about it, and bar owners are in despair with the Scottish government, but alas we are still in the situation where there are no winners... and no easy answers.

Pubs are going to have to get really serious about who they let it and how to keep people safe, but I don't think they are going to be able to do it while turning a profit... and hence, bars will tend to over-fill, people will flock to places where they are allowed to drink, and the numbers of cases will start to skyrocket again, and then we'll be back into yet another lockdown.

I fear that many, many venues will not survive another lockdown, let alone another year or more of serious restrictions, and hence everyone is praying that the vaccines deliver the goods in terms of keeping case numbers (and, most importantly, hospitalisations) down, because if they don't, we are in big trouble.

And yes, none of this considers what might happen if the P.1 (Brazil) or B.1351 (SA) variants start to spread.

 

[Outspacer]

Regular boosters, like with flu, seem inevitable. I'm ok with that.

I'm fine with that too, just trying to ward off complacency until we get that far! Mainly worried about this month or so, while most under 50s aren't protected, and autumn when the first variant booster won't have got into enough people. Pretty sure there will be a scare over case numbers at some point, just hope that it will not result in hospitalisations.

 

[PeterJB]

Meanwhile, Scotland's pubs can reopen in two weeks' time... but cannot serve alcohol indoors.

This explains what I saw at lunchtime today - a small street full of pubs near work (called Ashton Lane), and two bars are currently erecting massive canopies that will shelter folks standing outside.

The trouble is, there simply isn't enough room outside for people to safely socially distance, even in bars that have beer gardens, which one of these bars doesn't have.

Of course, people are raging about it, and bar owners are in despair with the Scottish government, but alas we are still in the situation where there are no winners... and no easy answers.

Pubs are going to have to get really serious about who they let it and how to keep people safe, but I don't think they are going to be able to do it while turning a profit... and hence, bars will tend to over-fill, people will flock to places where they are allowed to drink, and the numbers of cases will start to skyrocket again, and then we'll be back into yet another lockdown.

I fear that many, many venues will not survive another lockdown, let alone another year or more of serious restrictions, and hence everyone is praying that the vaccines deliver the goods in terms of keeping case numbers (and, most importantly, hospitalisations) down, because if they don't, we are in big trouble.

And yes, none of this considers what might happen if the P.1 (Brazil) or B.1351 (SA) variants start to spread.

 

[Barra333]

I admit I don't pay a ton of attention to Canada, but I really had no idea it was getting this bad up there:

Ontario hospitals may have to withhold care as COVID-19 fills ICUs

Also, I've posted in this thread before what these "doomsday plans" look like. It's really, really grim and horrendous for hospital morale and the mental well-being of the staff. Unfortunately, since humans are humans no matter where they live in the world, you're not going to be able to convince a sizeable chunk of people that there's a problem.

Setting new records for daily cases up here. Haven't looked up the rest of the province/country, but in my city/health unit district (~500,000 people) over 60% of new cases are under 30, and the vast majority of those are 18-22.

 

[Jezza819]

My 2nd dose was scheduled when my initial appt. was made; 3 weeks between like usual. People in our county group are still asking, but they keep being told "we don't know just yet" on the rescheduled date. I'll give it another week before I do what Joey advises & look for one of his solutions.

Yikes. I hope that doesn't happen to me. I just assumed that both doses were good and they had adequate supply when they initially scheduled me.

 

[Danoff]

Yikes. I hope that doesn't happen to me. I just assumed that both doses were good and they had adequate supply when they initially scheduled me.

Apparently the 3 weeks was chosen to be short so that it Pfizer (for example) could get through Phase 3 trails quickly. There is no evidence that it is the best interval. It could be, for example, that 12 weeks is the best. That hasn't been studied.

If you got your first dose, just be patient, the 2nd one is not for short-term immunity so much as it is for long term retention of immunity, at least based on my understanding of it.