COVID-19/Coronavirus Information and Support Thread (see OP for useful links)

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This is why I don't want the damn thing.
I'm out of PTO and PPTO and used both rona 2 week quarantine allowed due to others and still tested negative for the umpteenth time.
Still begrudgingly wearing my face condom at work but I pull it down the second I'm not around someone at work.

I still think this a big nothing burger.
Staggering, absolutely staggering. 621,000 people dead in your country alone and you call that a "nothing burger" - sorry, but that's a hideous thing to say. I'd really hate to see what you consider a 'something burger'.

You say you don't want the "damn" vaccine because it might make you slightly unwell for a day or two (but very likely won't do anything) and you don't have any paid time off left to take?? I sincerely hope you don't get COVID-19 itself then, because apparently it can be a bit of a bitch... The Guardian reports that some 2 million adults in the UK have reported COVID symptoms for over 3 months. The Telegraph (the UK newspaper equivalent of Fox News) reports that 400,000 UK adults have reported COVID symptoms for over a year. "People aged 35 to 69 most likely to report long-term virus after-effects such as fatigue and shortness of breath, the survey shows"... fortunately, people aged 70 and over don't tend to report long COVID as much though... I wonder why that might be? 🤔

Seriously, if you ask me, you're taking a huge gamble by opting not to take by far the most effective protection available to you against this virus. Cases are skyrocketing here in the UK, in spite of the UK having one of the most successful vaccine rollouts in the world. The US and the UK are virtually the same in terms of vaccine uptake, and yet we're seeing a massive spike in new cases... as such, it is not a question of if, but when the US gets hit with a new spike of cases... indeed, it is very likely already underway in the US...

A new wave (of the Delta variant) in the US will hit the unvaccinated population much harder: https://www.ft.com/content/730e35fd-9f9e-438b-8617-c0f1bc163fd3 - and the US still has less than half its population fully vaccinated (and your state, GA, has less than half the adult population fully vaccinated), and hence a new wave just like that currently underway in the UK is practically inevitable.
 
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Staggering, absolutely staggering. 621,000 people dead in your country alone and you call that a "nothing burger" - sorry, but that's a hideous thing to say. I'd really hate to see what you consider a 'something burger'.

You say you don't want the "damn" vaccine because it might make you slightly unwell for a day or two (but very likely won't do anything) and you don't have any paid time off left to take?? I sincerely hope you don't get COVID-19 itself then, because apparently it can be a bit of a bitch... The Guardian reports that some 2 million adults in the UK have reported COVID symptoms for over 3 months. The Telegraph (the UK newspaper equivalent of Fox News) reports that 400,000 UK adults have reported COVID symptoms for over a year. "People aged 35 to 69 most likely to report long-term virus after-effects such as fatigue and shortness of breath, the survey shows"... fortunately, people aged 70 and over don't tend to report long COVID as much though... I wonder why that might be? 🤔

Seriously, if you ask me, you're taking a huge gamble by opting not to take by far the most effective protection available to you against this virus. Cases are skyrocketing here in the UK, in spite of the UK having one of the most successful vaccine rollouts in the world. The US and the UK are virtually the same in terms of vaccine uptake, and yet we're seeing a massive spike in new cases... as such, it is not a question of if, but when the US gets hit with a new spike of cases... indeed, it is very likely already underway in the US...

A new wave (of the Delta variant) in the US will hit the unvaccinated population much harder: https://www.ft.com/content/730e35fd-9f9e-438b-8617-c0f1bc163fd3 - and the US still has less than half its population fully vaccinated (and your state, GA, has less than half the adult population fully vaccinated), and hence a new wave just like that currently underway in the UK is practically inevitable.
Here, people are dropping their masks, partying and spending money like there is no tomorrow. State mandated lockdown is finished.
His Holiness, Saint Fauci, assures us our Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are good to go against the Delta variant.
 
Still begrudgingly wearing my face condom
Errr....

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... I can see why you'd find that uncomfortable.
 
You say you don't want the "damn" vaccine because it might make you slightly unwell for a day or two (but very likely won't do anything) and you don't have any paid time off left to take?? I sincerely hope you don't get COVID-19 itself then, because apparently it can be a bit of a bitch...
I've had medical problems that would make a grown man give up since I was a kid, rumitoid arthritis since 10, try walking to the doctor cause you were poor when it flames up as a kid, appendicitis at 11 that literally almost killed me...thanks to my dad thinking I just wanted to play hookie from school.
I keep a sinus infection, I smoke, I'm an alcoholic with an ulcer since I believe I was 20. Blood pressure... Cholesterol issues from 8. Im the shining example of perfect health!/s

And no I don't, was wasted on the quarantine periods and god knows how many negative tests I've had to take.

People die everyday. If y'all really knew me you might understand my sucks for them attitude.
Seeing someone stabbed in the head knife in head dumped next to a trash can in a heroin den of an apartment complex at the age of 7 does things.
 
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I've had medical problems that would make a grown man give up since I was a kid, rumitoid arthritis since 10, try walking to the doctor cause you were poor when it flames up as a kid, appendicitis at 11 that literally almost killed me...thanks to my dad thinking I just wanted to play hookie from school.
I keep a sinus infection, I smoke, I'm an alcoholic with an ulcer since I believe I was 20. Blood pressure... Cholesterol issues from 8. Im the shining example of perfect health!/s

And no I don't, was wasted on the quarantine periods and god knows how many negative tests I've had to take.

People die everyday. If y'all really knew me you might understand.
To be fair, you might have just said that you don't want to take the vaccine because you have good reason/medical history to justify possibly not doing so instead of what you actually said, but never mind.

Clearly, there are people for whom the vaccine(s) are not recommended, but then these people are at higher risk from the virus itself. Having serious underlying/on-going health conditions is really more of a reason to get the vaccine than to avoid it, but if you are uncertain then I hope you can speak to your physician about it and find out whether any specific vaccine poses a greater risk to you for some reason. In general, however, the virus itself is by far the bigger threat to one's personal health than any vaccine currently available in the US or UK.

Alas, no vaccine is 100% safe, but the risks posed by vaccines are massively outweighed by the benefits, and alas the virus is also still out there too.
 
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In general, however, the virus itself is by far the bigger threat to one's personal health than any vaccine currently available in the US or UK.
Indeed. If you think the side-effects of the vaccine are bad (and they aren't; even the clottiest vaccine is barely above background and considerably lower than the Pill), you should see the side-effects of COVID-19.


Earlier this year, COVID-19 was doing a 9/11 (and worse) every day for a month in the USA - and that's a nothingburger? The USA spent nearly 20 years and countless billions going after the guy responsible for 9/11, so why aren't the guys who refuse to wear masks (literally the most basic and effortless way to protect yourself from 90% of it, and others from almost 100% of you) treated the same way after causing 200 times more harm*? Just call them Osamask b'In-Fectin... 😁


*Deaths is one thing, but serious long-term COVID-19 side effects are around 200% more common
 
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Yeah, if COVID "only" cause either: A) Death or B) No symptoms and nothing in between, I'd probably not be worried due to my decent health. However, I personally know enough people with long term issues due to COVID that lasted for months on end, that I think that it's an even bigger issue that may affect people's well being long term.

I don't know anyone who had more than a day or two of vaccine side effects (except the arm pain that can last slightly longer). I have to say, I felt really bad for 1 day (on a Sunday) after my second shot, but I was able to have my shot on a Saturday, since I knew that it was likely I'll be feeling bad the next day. With vaccines abundantly available in the US, I'm pretty sure one could find a day that works for them, so they would be able to stay home the following day.

I think a lot of people who think COVID is just a flu have been lucky enough to not see what it can really do to people who are otherwise in decent health (or especially to people with pre-existing conditions). I kind of understand it, but still, I do hope that more people will get vaccinated so this whole thing can really turn into a flu-like disease.
 
People die everyday. If y'all really knew me you might understand my sucks for them attitude.
Seeing someone stabbed in the head knife in head dumped next to a trash can in a heroin den of an apartment complex at the age of 7 does things.
Look, trauma sucks. It sucks worse because the same thing can affect different people in different ways - one person might not be shaken at all while another might be driven to extreme nihilism.

But even if that's how you feel emotionally, surely you can recognise intellectually that 600,000 people dying who otherwise wouldn't have is a fairly major thing for a country. You don't have to feel bad about people dying from COVID if you don't want to, but you can't dismiss it as if nothing happened.
 
This is why I don't want the damn thing.
I'm out of PTO and PPTO and used both rona 2 week quarantine allowed due to others and still tested negative for the umpteenth time.
Still begrudgingly wearing my face condom at work but I pull it down the second I'm not around someone at work.

I still think this a big nothing burger.
I went to work today as if nothing happened yesterday but now I feel much safer and protected against the virus. Still wearing my face mask. I don't even think much of it anymore except when I'm wearing it for over an hour or two.
 
Still wearing my face mask. I don't even think much of it anymore except when I'm wearing it for over an hour or two.
Do you breathe through your nose or your mouth? I noticed during allergy season when my nose was clogged that moisture was significantly more present in the mask because I was breathing through my mouth and the prospect of wearing one for extended periods of time was increasingly undesirable.
 
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Do you breathe through your nose or your mouth? I noticed during allergy season when my nose was clogged that moisture was significantly more present in the mask because I was breathing through my mouth and the prospect of wearing one for extended periods of time was increasingly undesirable.
Interesting, for me mask made allergy season finally bearable. I’ve used it even when doing yard work when trees around my house were dropping all sorts of stuff in the air and I didn’t end up sneezing for the next day, which is what would usually happen.
 
Interesting, for me mask made allergy season finally bearable. I’ve used it even when doing yard work when trees around my house were dropping all sorts of stuff in the air and I didn’t end up sneezing for the next day, which is what would usually happen.
My grass allergies don't respect the sanctity of home...where I tend to not wear a mask.
 
Do you breathe through your nose or your mouth? I noticed during allergy season when my nose was clogged that moisture was significantly more present in the mask because I was breathing through my mouth and the prospect of wearing one for extended periods of time was increasingly undesirable.
Through my nose, as usual.
 
I've had medical problems that would make a grown man give up since I was a kid, rumitoid arthritis since 10, try walking to the doctor cause you were poor when it flames up as a kid, appendicitis at 11 that literally almost killed me...thanks to my dad thinking I just wanted to play hookie from school.
I keep a sinus infection, I smoke, I'm an alcoholic with an ulcer since I believe I was 20. Blood pressure... Cholesterol issues from 8. Im the shining example of perfect health!/s
So obviously consult a medical professional here, but given everything I know about risk assessment with regards to getting the vaccine you would likely fall into a high risk group. This means you could potentially have a much severer case of COVID if you contracted it. While rheumatoid arthritis doesn't necessarily increase your risk, the other issues that come along with it do, mainly the blood pressure and cholesterol issues.

Really, for someone in your situation, the Johnson & Johnson vaccine might be a good one since if you did have and negative effects, it would just be once instead of twice. Also, the J & J vaccine works more like the vaccines we're used to instead of relying on mRNA technology. So if you've had vaccines in the past without any major complications, you'd likely have the same result with the J & J vaccine.

People die everyday.
Absolutely true, however, it's not the deaths we need to be worried about with COVID, it's the long-term impact it's going to have. While 620,000 deaths are nothing to sneeze at, the far biggest concern is what sort of long-term health conditions will the 33 million Americans who didn't die will face. That number accounts for 10% of our population and that's just known cases, the real number is probably much higher. Imagine having a healthcare system, that's already taxed by bureaucracy start to see an influx of cardiovascular and respiratory patients. It's not going to be good since it will lower positive outcomes, reduce the quality of care, all while driving up the cost of healthcare along with increasing the amount of money the government takes out of your check for things like Medicare/Medicaid.
 
While rheumatoid arthritis doesn't necessarily increase your risk, the other issues that come along with it do, mainly the blood pressure and cholesterol issues.
Rheumatoid arthritis automatically puts people into the high risk group here in Australia and was the very reason I could get vaccinated earlier than others in my age group. The main reason it's like that here isn't about the disease itself. It's more to do with the medications you have to take to treat the inflammation compromising the immune system. So yeah, that's why I was quick to get in to the first available appointment. Well that and for the welfare of others around me.

  • Chronic inflammatory Conditions
    • Systemic Lupus Erythematosus
    • Rheumatoid Arthritis
    • Crohn’s disease
    • Ulcerative colitis
    • Similar conditions who are being treated with Disease modifying anti-rheumatic drugs (DMARDs) or immune-suppressive or immunomodulatory therapies
 
UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson announces that the UK will remove all remaining coronavirus restrictions on July 19th, citing a shift from 'government diktat' to 'personal responsibility'... meanwhile, cases in the UK continue to rise rapidly, with Scotland in particular seeing some of the highest infection rates in Europe right now.

It must be said, Boris Johnson is less than convincing when he starts talking about the supposed 'irreversibility' of this move. He (and others, like Peter Bone MP on the BBC earlier today) said that 'of course, if some terrible new bug was to come about, then we would have to look at new restrictions, but that is not on the cards'... erm, what? I guess what they both meant was that if a new variant appears that has significantly different properties to the variant(s) that have already caused two waves of infection in the UK was to appear in the future, then there might be the need for another lockdown scenario. The big question is, however, doesn't the delta variant already tick that box? They firmly seem to believe not, but scientists are considerably less sure about that.

Prof. Chris Whitty also sounds and looks uncomfortable, mentioning in one breath how the pandemic is rising again and talking about why people should keep using masks etc., only to then have to defend the government's decision to scrap all restrictions and simply leave it up to the 'courtesy' and judgement of others. He knows that's not got a snowball's chance in hell of working in the UK. Whitty also seemed to have a subtle dig at Johnson when he reminded a questioner that these decisions are not being taken by advisers or scientists but by government ministers who, in turn, are passing the buck to the public.

Why do I get the feeling this is all going to end very badly?
 
Why do I get the feeling this is all going to end very badly?
Because it is.

It is my own opinion that the Government feels it has done everything it can do by vaccinations and restrictions, and now is the time to try for the original great idea and soundbite: herd immunity. Cheaper, easier, and the government seems to prefer it.
 
Earlier today I was accompanying my parents to get their shots.

...The venue was literally jam packed. The queue went around the proverbial corner. The nurse taking the vaccination codes said there were no more vaccine shots left for the day, so we should come back first thing tomorrow morning. Around seven, as a matter of fact.

All this, after over a month of waiting for my parents' slots to open up. Jesus. I know South Africa is not in a good position right now with the rollout, but this was beyond... urgh. And the government decided that now's the right time to accept walk-ins as well, when it's already so bloody chaotic in the vaccination sites.
 
I'm not sure why Boris et al even bothered to make an announcement today, since the decision won't be made until the 12th 🤔
 
I'm not sure why Boris et al even bothered to make an announcement today, since the decision won't be made until the 12th 🤔
AFAIK, the current restrictions expire in law on July 19th unless an extension is agreed by Parliament, so it's something of a misnomer for the media to call this a decision to 'lift restrictions', as it is more like a decision not to reimplement them. Johnson knows that he will face an almighty backlash from his own (mostly idiotic) MPs and hence it is difficult to see how he can do anything else but go along with it, even if it is a horrible idea.
 
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AFAIK, the current restrictions expire in law on July 19th unless an extension is agreed by Parliament, so it's something of a misnomer for the media to call this a decision to 'lift restrictions', as it is more like a decision not to reimplement them. Johnson knows that he will face an almighty backlash from his own (mostly idiotic) MPs and hence it is difficult to see how he can do anything else but go along with it, even if it is a horrible idea.
Well OK, but this, today, wasn't the decision (to not propose a further extension to parliament)!

With current restrictions allowing the current huge rise in cases, there's little justification for keeping things at this level with a simple extension that might be easily pushed through (with the same amount of whining as last time) - it's either open up the nightclubs or have greater restrictions return, IMO.
 
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True, and the BBC did at least make it clear that the decision will actually be taken in parliament on the 12th... but I can't see how Johnson or the idiot Tories will change their minds, even though they really should.

Johnson's main argument seems to be 'If we don't lift restrictions now, when will we lift them?' - that seems totally spurious to me. Lifting restrictions when a new, more transmissible variant is already in the country is a gamble - but when that variant is already totally dominant and already widespread is pure lunacy.

They will learn the hard way though - less pain now, more pain later seems to be Johnson's mantra on just about everything, and COVID is clearly no exception.
 
It needs to be made very clear by the government that your right to ask another person to wear a mask outranks their right to not wear a mask. If a bus, venue, household or organisation asks you to put a mask on, that must mean you wear a mask. I don't like this current announcement, because there are going to be so many snotty people going around with the "uhh, I don't have to wear a mask if I don't want to" sneezing COVID around the old-people's home or on the apples at the supermarket. Yes, take mandatory mask wearing away, but don't take away the rules which allow people to ask/force others to wear them in places where some companies or people might not want anti-maskers to walk in and spread the disease around.
 
I'm not going to get too excited just yet given what happened at Christmas, but this does actually look like the end of restrictions at a National level. Not sure if it's Boris himself, Sunak or Javid driving the decision, but someone has finally grown some balls in the government and is looking at the bigger picture.

I would hope all members of Sage, including Whitty, have been told to keep to the message track this time or lose their jobs & government funding.

The gnashing of teeth from indysage in the media and on twitter across today, as they realise their 15 minutes of fame is coming to an end has been a constant source of joy. Their funding will soon dry up and their dreams of behavioral control and societal, re-engineering will be long forgotten in a few months time. They will return to being the bunch of irrelevant academics they were before this all started.

The country will take some short term pain, but this will be massively outweighed in the long-term.
 
I have some humility about self so if the end of restrictions do work I'll be happy to admit I was wrong.

However past experience doesn't fill me with confidence, and I frankly have lost faith in the government to get it right. Its always "rush everything, and if it goes wrong it's your fault not ours". The attitude stinks.
 
AFAIK, the current restrictions expire in law on July 19th unless an extension is agreed by Parliament, so it's something of a misnomer for the media to call this a decision to 'lift restrictions', as it is more like a decision not to reimplement them. Johnson knows that he will face an almighty backlash from his own (mostly idiotic) MPs and hence it is difficult to see how he can do anything else but go along with it, even if it is a horrible idea.
Most of the lockdown measures weren’t implemented under the coronavirus act. The government used the Public Health (Control of Diseases) Act 1984. No expiry date on that and virtually zero parliamentary oversight.
 
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True, and the BBC did at least make it clear that the decision will actually be taken in parliament on the 12th... but I can't see how Johnson or the idiot Tories will change their minds, even though they really should.

Johnson's main argument seems to be 'If we don't lift restrictions now, when will we lift them?' - that seems totally spurious to me. Lifting restrictions when a new, more transmissible variant is already in the country is a gamble - but when that variant is already totally dominant and already widespread is pure lunacy.

They will learn the hard way though - less pain now, more pain later seems to be Johnson's mantra on just about everything, and COVID is clearly no exception.
Indeed, that is a spurious argument. School holiday isn't, nor summer generally, nor is the milestone of all over-18s having been offered their first jab. Not saying they balance out the increased risks from nightclubs etc at all, but they should each help quite a bit. Having a wave over summer is almost certainly better than having one in the autumn, but we could just end up with both.

So we'll still see cases rising, but we can't predict what rate they'll rise at, or for how long. Before the 19th things could change - even now it's not exactly clear what rate cases are increasing by (50%? or 70%?) or when that will settle down before dropping off. Sooner or later it will drop off, so we just have to estimate the damage (in admissions and long covid) until it does.

Admissions are still not increasing at the same rate as cases (regardless of lag). That may change, but since we can't explain why that rate is lower we can't guess at reasons why it would increase. If it carries on increasing at about 25%/week then admissions will double every 3 weeks - not great but manageable if cases start to drop off within about 6 weeks.

Cases in most age groups are increasing, but in over 25 age groups it's not at an alarming rate. It really does appear to be the most social ages causing the majority of the spread (plus a bunch but quite a bit less now in secondary school kids), and mostly keeping it amongst themselves. I have to say that if most of the cases are from optional behaviour like football matches, parties, etc then my sympathy level regarding their risk of long covid is somewhat diminished, but not enough data on that to say.

I don't anticipate 'test and trace' doing anything significantly useful. Surge testing etc seems to have been effective when we just had a few hotspots but we just won't be able to sustain that nationwide. Again 'seems' - we've no idea what an unrestricted wave actually looks like compared to the models (clearly worse than a restricted wave, but by how much?).

Well, that's kind of a summary of my thoughts rather than a big argument against your post :) That comes here... :)

Predicting the path of this wave is a fool's game. Just as Boris is only hoping that things will go ok thanks to vaccination, the view that some number of cases equates to some number of admissions and deaths (even if at a different ratio due to vacccination) is also too simplistic and flawed. Further, keeping restrictions as they are now would do nothing to reduce the wave, so a case would have to be made for increasing restrictions. That's hard to do unless/until admissions get quite high.

Overall though my "don't know" level is about as high as it's ever been apart from at the very start of this. I don't feel able to advocate for any of the three options (open/same/more) with any real conviction, and that's without even looking at the economic angle.

It needs to be made very clear by the government that your right to ask another person to wear a mask outranks their right to not wear a mask. If a bus, venue, household or organisation asks you to put a mask on, that must mean you wear a mask. I don't like this current announcement, because there are going to be so many snotty people going around with the "uhh, I don't have to wear a mask if I don't want to" sneezing COVID around the old-people's home or on the apples at the supermarket. Yes, take mandatory mask wearing away, but don't take away the rules which allow people to ask/force others to wear them in places where some companies or people might not want anti-maskers to walk in and spread the disease around.
I'd like Whitty and Valance to lay it out as an official recommendation to wear masks on public transport, when shopping, and other indoor places where people mix. The beating around the bush saying where they might still wear a mask was painful to watch. A medical recommendation isn't law in any way, but it would help enable people to wear one with less fear of assault or abuse, or for a venue etc to demand one for entry. It would also remind people that this is ongoing, and that alone would affect our behaviour enough to make a useful difference.
 
Because it is.

It is my own opinion that the Government feels it has done everything it can do by vaccinations and restrictions, and now is the time to try for the original great idea and soundbite: herd immunity. Cheaper, easier, and the government seems to prefer it.
Just to be clear I think herd immunity, and the government's plan to lift all restrictions is a really bad idea.
 
Herd immunity per se is a really good idea - but it's how that is achieved is the issue.

Herd immunity via a thorough and effective vaccination programme is by far the safest approach. But the UK Government's current plan is to basically let the virus pick up the slack and achieve herd immunity through a hybrid of 'natural immunity' (i.e. people getting infected with the virus) and induced immunity (via vaccination/inoculation).

It's also a question of rates of infection. The UK Government seem resigned to the fact that they can't change the total number of people who end up getting the virus (even though many other countries seem to have managed to keep numbers much, much lower than we have...) and hence they only seek to avoid the worst-case scenario of infection rates becoming too high, as opposed to total infections. (Of course, it's really the number of hospitalisations that the Government is trying to keep from becoming too high, and hence they are now gambling that they can let infection rates soar without that hospitalisation rate becoming too much for the NHS to cope with.)

But very high infection numbers has a couple of major problems, not least the potential for new variants being generated in below herd-immunity population. Long COVID is also a massive problem that the Government don't even really seem to acknowledge exists yet, and the possible long-term health effects of infections that thus far have not presented any noticable symptoms (i.e. potential damage to tissues and organs that may manifest in serious problems further down the line) are also being largely dismissed.
 
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I can't say I'm surprised when entire states go into lockdown over a single case.
I know, crazy isn't it? As a result of this crazy policy, Australia has had fewer positive test results in grand total than the UK will have every day by the middle of this week (again!), and yet we get a GP and they don't! Indeed, Australia is a rubbish 124th in the COVID league table, while we're 7th. The UK could practically fill Albert Park with our COVID dead for both qualifying and the race, while Australia's COVID dead could fit into Wimbledon's Centre Court 16 times over... so yeh, Australia are really making a mess of things!!
 
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