d3p0's thoughts..

  • Thread starter Thread starter d3p0
  • 27 comments
  • 1,085 views
Status
Not open for further replies.
Messages
489
This post was written in response to following thread and continues where I left off here.

In regards to the conflicts that seem to surround my posts, I think I've come to a conclusion about that. I believe that this is due in large part, to the philosophy that I hold about GT4 drifting. Don't laugh, but I look at GT4 and GT4 drifting as practice. Okay, you can laugh, but many professionals train with these games. I've only been attending drift events since December '04, but I have found GT4 invaluable since I started practicing with it. For example, it helped me anticipate what drifting a 225~ HP S13 would be like when I drifted my friends shop car for the first time 3 weeks ago. I think because I consider the game such a great learning tool also explains why I have a great focus on achieving and playing realistically. Furthermore, I hope that drifting in GT4 will eventually drive at least a handful of folks to get out there and experience the real thing. That would be truely great! The more people that get out to their local drift events, the higher the skill level will become and the sooner drifting will earn the legitimacy that it deserves.

So, what does this have to do with brake bias? If the first step for 'the handful of future drifters' is to drift in GT4, it only makes sense for them to learn "the right way" (or the way they will experience later). If you look through my previous posts, for example, the recent post about judging, you'll notice that I am mostly trying to keep things true-to-life so future drifters can get that much more out of GT4.

In summary, for those of you that consider GT4 drifting purely entertainment, you might do well by ignoring what I have to say. But, for those who may eventually get behind the wheel (and I hope many do), my comments are only meant to benefit you.
 
Ive been attending local drift meets as much as possible.. ive been to about 5 so far.
It's really a great atmosphere, all the blokes are great, and they all share the same interest DRIFTING!. plus you learn heaps.

I agree, GT4 does help with drifting in real life... ive only been out once in my mates FC, and GT4 helped me with techniques, line. etc.
An awesome learning tool.
 
Racing games these days are getting better and better, and the numbers of "sim" type racing games also increases, some real great ones such as Live For Speed, Enthusia, and the GT series.

I learnt heaps of stuff in GT3, didn't apply what I've learnt from the game to real life, but I do apply real life knowledge into the game and it work wonders, too bad I don't play too much GT4, but I'm currently addicted to Live For Speed, and that's the game I'll be training/learning on.

I absolutely agree, these games really help you in real life driving, note the word "help" only :)
 
I used to do some drifting in my 180sx (Sold for a R33) but I noticed alot of wear and tear forming and I choose to stop as at the time I could afford it.

GT4 lets me get some of the fun back of drifting without the cost.
 
It's perhaps your used to the GT4 physics system. LFS is fun ;)
 
MdnIte
It's perhaps your used to the GT4 physics system. LFS is fun ;)
i agree! lfs does seem too oversteery, but i was just too used to gt4. not hard to get used to lfs. just takes time.
 
I have been drifting in real life for a few years now... However, the physics in GT4 are just not realistic enough to apply completely realistic settings to... Your goal is admirable, but unrealistic... I have drifted an S13 (mine and a friends), a couple different S14's, an FC, FD, and a few other RWD's... I can safely say there are some things that a video game just cannot recreate... Use GT4 as a learning tool, but don't act like it's a realistic representation of real life... It's not even close...

If the first step for 'the handful of future drifters' is to drift in GT4, it only makes sense for them to learn "the right way" (or the way they will experience later).

Careful buddy... My friend Josh drifts a 600hp twin turbo S14 (Zenki) with a heavy rear brake bias... He drifts magnificently with all that power (and the brake bias). I have another friend who drifts a nearlly stock S13 hatch with no front brakes (at the moment... His rotors warped so he just took them off until he could afford to buy the rotors and calipers he wants), and he does things with that little car that I wouldn't have thought possible with such a setup... So don't act like everyone is going to drift the way you think they should... I've said it before, and I'll say it again... There are MANY correct ways to set up a car for drift and/or grip... I'm sure you'll learn that eventually...

In summary, for those of you that consider GT4 drifting purely entertainment, you might do well by ignoring what I have to say.

I don't think you have to worry about people ignoring what you say... No offense, but you're a little on the pompus side, and that doesn't go over well here...





;)
 
I agree, using GT4 for drifting practice is a great idea. The only problem is that the physics in GT4 are not the same in real life though they are extremely close.
 
240SXRacer
I agree, using GT4 for drifting practice is a great idea. The only problem is that the physics in GT4 are not the same in real life though they are extremely close.

Not extremely close... Not even close... There are some huge problems with the basic code in GT4... The tire physics, and understeer/oversteer physics, just to name a few...





;)
 
I think any driving simulator, game or not, is going to have flaws, simply for the fact that you cant take into account every single aspect of the physics applied to a car during driving, the smoothness or coursness of the track, especially as it changes gradually from one part of a track to another, the tire data (as tire companies downright refuse to hand it over), etc.

Having driven in GT3 was a huge asset to me when I started to drift my AE85 a little here and there. It was an SR5, which means no LSD, and a whopping 86hp (if your lucky). Could I break it loose on dry pavement? damn straight I could, but I had to throw the clutch in and jam it back out at about 5 grand, could I afford that? no, but I sure as hell drifted in the rain and on dirt roads, even without an LSD, because I learned to handle no LSD in GT3, even if its not real, it does give you SOME idea of how a car will react when treated a certain way.

GT4 refines this, but by no means should be considered "real", perhaps "more real" than MOST games out there, but not 100% real.

Use it to learn, it WILL help, proof in the fact that I could drift a stock AE85 with a very short learning curve.

Dont argue over whether it's real or not, just use it to benefit you as best you can.



Basically what I am trying to say is......



Quit pissing on each other and GO DRIFT!

it's what we are all here for, its our passion, go do it, and leave the pissing to the newbs.
 
yah, cept mine was an 87 rare black on black coupe in mint condition.



on yah, an itsuki was a freak of nature and had no clue about driving.
 
Use GT4 as a learning tool, but don't act like it's a realistic representation of real life... It's not even close...

I don't think I wrote anything to that effect, though I try to stay close to reality in GT4 so I can maximize what will carry over to real life.

My friend Josh drifts a 600hp twin turbo S14 (Zenki) with a heavy rear brake bias...

I think you're missing a point here; if someone is just starting to drift in real life they aren't going to have 600hp or a heavy rear brake bias. Of course there are many good ways to setup a car, but I'm mostly concerned with possible future drifters.

Delphic: Your reply reeks of 'd3p0 hate', if I bug you that much, just IM me - aim: mrfungus7

As for everyone else who replied, Bryan said it well; Go Drift! Whether in the real world or GT4 or with a shopping cart at the grocery store.
 
d3p0
I don't think I wrote anything to that effect, though I try to stay close to reality in GT4 so I can maximize what will carry over to real life.



I think you're missing a point here; if someone is just starting to drift in real life they aren't going to have 600hp or a heavy rear brake bias. Of course there are many good ways to setup a car, but I'm mostly concerned with possible future drifters.

That was one example showing one end of the spectrum... The next sentence showed another end of the spectrum... I might add that my friend Jason runs a stock '89 FC with stock brakes, and he drifts well, but is limited by the setup (admittedly)... You can drift a stock car, but it is not the best way to drift... Better suspension, better brakes, and an LSD will always make a vehicle more driftable... Now, how you set each is COMPLETELY subjective...

Delphic: Your reply reeks of 'd3p0 hate', if I bug you that much, just IM me - aim: mrfungus7

As for everyone else who replied, Bryan said it well; Go Drift! Whether in the real world or GT4 or with a shopping cart at the grocery store.


Hey man... You bug a lot of people on this forum... Quite a few of the mods in fact (though I won't name names)... There are quite a few mods that are just waiting for you to screw up big so they can ban you... You have posted an incredible amount of posts stating your opinion, bluntly, without offering alternatives... That just doesn't go over well here, or anywhere...

My point was that brake bias is very subjective... You keep saying that everyone is doing it wrong, and that is just false... Heavy rear brake bias is used VERY often in real world drifting... You don't seem to understand this... I have a nearly stock S13 Coupe, and I utilize a heavier rear brake bias.. So, don't act like it isn't done by people on a budget with nearly stock vehicles... If you want to keep it as close to stock as possible, do it, but stop acting like that is the only RIGHT way to drift in GT4 (for possible future drifters or not)... You have said it in numerous posts... Here's one, for example:

If the first step for 'the handful of future drifters' is to drift in GT4, it only makes sense for them to learn "the right way"

That's just egotistical... There is no single RIGHT way... If you had been drifting for a while in real life, you would probably know that...

I don't hate you, but you do have a preachy egotistical way about you, and it is rubbing many people the wrong way... Many like you have come and gone, here at GTP... If you want to stick around and gain respect, you need to earn it... Don't just go around preaching to everyone your so called "right way", and expect everyone to just eat it up...

my comments are only meant to benefit you.

Drop the ego, my friend... You have not been around long enough, or proven yourself knowledgeable enough to teach anyone... Most people post videos, practice, ask questions, learn, and so on, before ever trying to pass anything on... You just showed up and started preaching... You could be a very valuable GTP member if you would just accept that drifting is a highly subjective sport, and there are many ways to accomplish any specific goal...

Let me say it again... I do NOT hate you... You just need to tone it down before you lose any and/or all respect here at GTP... I would be the first person to be on your side if you were to contribute anything valuable to this forum... I have many friends here that would do the same...

Bryan did say it well... Just drift... Stop with the preaching and blunt off color posts... Just drift your way, and let others drift their way...

Is that acceptable to you?...


yah, cept mine was an 87 rare black on black coupe in mint condition.

Do you still have it?... I remember when you first bought it... You were so proud of it... If not, what are you driving now?... BTW, congrats on having your first child... Boy or girl?...


;)
 
Heavy rear brake bias is used VERY often in real world drifting...

Since this issue of brake bias is still plauging us, let just say that when I think of unrealistic brake bias, I think: "Brake Balance: 6/18". Likewise, your 'other end of the spectrum' (no front brakes) example is unsafe and would not pass tech at any track/drift event that I know of. If you want to argue that setting the brakes to the equivalent of 6/18 is common, I'll need further convincing.

There is no single RIGHT way

Hence the quotation marks, I wrote that meaning, 'the closest approximation to real life'.

I'm talking to you online right now, so hopefully we can settle the details.
 
d3p0
Since this issue of brake bias is still plauging us, let just say that when I think of unrealistic brake bias, I think: "Brake Balance: 6/18". Likewise, your 'other end of the spectrum' (no front brakes) example is unsafe and would not pass tech at any track/drift event that I know of. If you want to argue that setting the brakes to the equivalent of 6/18 is common, I'll need further convincing.



Hence the quotation marks, I wrote that meaning, 'the closest approximation to real life'.

I'm talking to you online right now, so hopefully we can settle the details.

I'm done with you... You just argue for the sake of arguing... Just drop it...


Have a nice day...






;)
 
Captain Trips
D3p0: 1 DR: 0

LOL... You two are so alike... Ignorance is bliss huh?..

I guess you guys have to stick together...





;)
 
settle it on the blacktop.

Drift for GTPinks,

winner gets the bread, loser walks.

(not tryin to be the snoody bystander or tryin to get banned, just an idea)
 
Delphic, I'm sorry you had to go offline but seriously, message me, I think we are actually on the same page about a lot.
 
d3p0
Delphic, I'm sorry you had to go offline but seriously, message me, I think we are actually on the same page about a lot.

Feel free to send me a PM, but I'm not going through with that kind of IM conversation again... Some things we agree on, but your idea of realism is just flawed... Almost anything (within reason) that can be done in GT4 can be aquaited to realism from some point of view... I think that's what you are having trouble grasping... Just let everyone drift the way they want to drift.. It's all for fun... Drop this nonsensical argument... You can drift however you like, but you are not helping anyone by pushing your views of the so called RIGHT way to set up their brakes and/or car for drifting... All of this has been covered hundreds of times before, and it never goes anywhere, so just let it go...

Y HELO THAR SARCASM

Actually there was no sarcasm in that statement... I said exactly what I meant... Very straightforward... BTW, I think your caps lock is on... Might want to turn that off...

settle it on the blacktop.

Drift for GTPinks,

winner gets the bread, loser walks.

Don't you start... This has nothing to do with proving who's right... I'm trying to prove that the majority of GTP is not doing it wrong... BTW, such a statement will not get you banned... You can relax...





;)
 
Delphic Reason
Actually there was no sarcasm in that statement... I said exactly what I meant... Very straightforward... BTW, I think your caps lock is on... Might want to turn that off...

Yo, I was being sarcastic. No need to jump at my throat for it. :sick:
 
DR- "Be water my friend."

Not that you're not already, but I personally remind myself of that every single day-it's served me well, or you could say I've served me well.

When one burns like fire, give them water,

< Vin >
 
vinsion
DR- "Be water my friend."

Not that you're not already, but I personally remind myself of that every single day-it's served me well, or you could say I've served me well.

When one burns like fire, give them water,

< Vin >

Which is what I am trying to do... These two are just hard to get through to... Oh well... Everyone knows what I'm saying (besides the aformentioned two), so it's time to move on... This thread served its purpose long ago... Maybe it's time to close it...

What do you think, Swift?...





;)
 
I believe DR is right about everything he has posted... He's a well known veteran of these forums like myself and knows what he's talking about.
 
Delphic Reason
This thread served its purpose long ago... Maybe it's time to close it...

What do you think, Swift?...

;)

I think.....

That CT and D3P0 need to wake up a bit. Drifting IS subjective. There are a few things about drifting that are concrete, like weightshifting. But almost everything else is about what the driver is comfortable with. Just like grip driving, go figure 💡

Anyway, DR has already said more then enough.

With that I'll bid you good lukc and good day.

attachment.php
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back