DFP is not always the best

[romanryunin]

Enthusia is the best racing sim physics wise to me. I own both DFP wheel and Driving Force. All hardcore simmers always scream DFP, DFP!!! But one thing I don't understand about the greatness and realism of DFP is that unlike in a real car, the wheel doesn't recenter itself as quickly and smoothly after leaving a turn as the real driving wheel does. Take Dragon time trial and with DFP you are frustrated like hell. IN real life I don't struggle with my steering wheel, no matter how hard I go up the hill through a twisty road. I only concentrate on my driving , my inputs, throttle, brake, steering, I never ever noticed any struggle with the steering wheel. Unlike IRL, DFP is just a big annoying hindrance that you have to struggle with, never finding the right amount of steering especially in hairpins, the wheel doesn't go back to the center with the smooth and quick way a real steering wheel does. Hence, it is better to switch to the cheap and criticized Driving Force. Although it is not 900 degrees miracle, and you steer much less than IRL, with common cars, you manage to drive through the twisty roads with ease, as much as you can do it IRL, the only difference is less precision and much, much less feedback. But with DFP you just struggle, not drive the car. THe same thing happens with DFP whenever you have to countersteer some huge oversteering - instead of quick and precise movement you have to fight the wheel and as it doesn't want to center itself quick enough, you often spin out, never making it countersteering well. Again, with DFP, although feeling cheap and simplifying the steering process, you can easily correct your mistakes just because it is so quick and light, just as IRL.

 

[rsmithdrift]

Ive never noticed this......I just focus on my driving.......the wheel will follow. lol.

I touge in real life too......alot........too much......kinda scary actually......I have no rear tread left after 6 months I went from brand new tires to chords lol.

And it feels just the same in EPR to me..and in lfs it's close, lfs is too slidy. You never really come to grips with the car like in real life and in EPR. GTR is good, though I've never driven one lol, and GPL makes me insane with all that craziness. GT4 is way off, GT3 is close except for the 200 mode thing.

But anyways, I guess I'm just used to turning the wheel back manually......I do it in real life too. Helps with control actually. I never noticed this.

 

[Wolfe]

@rsmithdrift: You're going faster in EPR and LFS than you are in real life. I guarantee it.

Enthusia offers too much grip in most situations. Live for Speed is closer to reality.

 

[Kylehnat]

DFP makes Enthusia SOOOOO much easier. It's a lot easier to make fine inputs, which is key to driving smoothly. Using the DS2 in this game was like performing surgery with a chainsaw.

 

[luftrofl]

Enthusia is the best racing sim physics wise to me. I own both DFP wheel and Driving Force. All hardcore simmers always scream DFP, DFP!!! But one thing I don't understand about the greatness and realism of DFP is that unlike in a real car, the wheel doesn't recenter itself as quickly and smoothly after leaving a turn as the real driving wheel does. Take Dragon time trial and with DFP you are frustrated like hell. IN real life I don't struggle with my steering wheel, no matter how hard I go up the hill through a twisty road. I only concentrate on my driving , my inputs, throttle, brake, steering, I never ever noticed any struggle with the steering wheel. Unlike IRL, DFP is just a big annoying hindrance that you have to struggle with, never finding the right amount of steering especially in hairpins, the wheel doesn't go back to the center with the smooth and quick way a real steering wheel does. Hence, it is better to switch to the cheap and criticized Driving Force. Although it is not 900 degrees miracle, and you steer much less than IRL, with common cars, you manage to drive through the twisty roads with ease, as much as you can do it IRL, the only difference is less precision and much, much less feedback. But with DFP you just struggle, not drive the car. THe same thing happens with DFP whenever you have to countersteer some huge oversteering - instead of quick and precise movement you have to fight the wheel and as it doesn't want to center itself quick enough, you often spin out, never making it countersteering well. Again, with DFP, although feeling cheap and simplifying the steering process, you can easily correct your mistakes just because it is so quick and light, just as IRL.

I still don't see how the "DFP is not always the best."

 

[romanryunin]

DFP is better than Driving Force in these aspects; precision of steering, more detailed FF. Clumsy when an immediate countersteering around 180 degrees is required, DFP seems to disagree and won't let you do it. I only once in my life or maybe twice had to correct oversteering in my car and I had no problem with the steering wheel, it was light, but with DFP I almost break my arms. It absolutely doesn't feel realistic.

But let's talk about regular cars, say up to 200 HP. I don't drive RWD cars so maybe in RWD in a rainy weather you have to fight with the steering when countersteering BUT I DOUBT that. Maybe you have to fight with the steering wheel in a rough race car that has no power steering and you have to correct oversteer maybe then it is very very hard and you have to struggle with the wheel but I DOUBT that.

Did you see the Mazda MX 5 aka Miata video in Ethusia? Watch the real guy in the real car playing with the wheel - it is blistering fast, isn't it? Now watch the guy in fron of the TV screen using DFP. Can you see how FASt he turns the wheel? Now turn on the FF effect and try it again! NO WAY. If you saw the video in Enthusia please tell me how can you possibly turn the DFP so fast without having supernatural powers? ONly when you turn OFF the FF. But then there is no centering and no feeling at all. Now tell me how you see this.

That's why I suggetsted that Driving Force maybe better for countersteering as it is light enough so you can do things really fast and soon enough to correct things, while struggling with DFP is too slow, hence you spin out.

 

[romanryunin]

And now about fast race cars, anything like over 500 HP. They don't have 900 degrees wheels. They have almost the same range like the cheap steering wheels for games. Because it would be scary to work 900 degrees in a formula one or driving Audi R8 whenever something goes wrong in a turn. I mean in such a fast race car you have to have a tight, low degree steering, nothing like your old good Chevy.

 

[rsmithdrift]

You know alot of what your feeling is called "centering spring"

If you play PC games the biggest upgrade to realism you can make is to turn it totally off and turn your force feedback strength to something like 50-80%

Unfortunately you have none of these options in PS2 games so your stuck with what the game designer gives you......which is usually a light centering spring, some heavy dampening (makes ff feel sluggish) and weak effects strength, that combination is horrible for the DFP as it makes the wheel resist your countersteer that the car should be helping you do with it's force feedback.

All my friends have a hard time and hate driving EPR and D1GP and NFS and whatnot with the DFP because of that, but LOVE using it in LFS and GTR.......

it's all in the way it's programmed, I wish some game designers would figure that out....... GT4 got it right, but GT4 has bad tire physics so it still feels wrong because of that, but atleast the FF affects are right in GT4 ......GT3 too.

 

[romanryunin]

You know alot of what your feeling is called "centering spring"

If you play PC games the biggest upgrade to realism you can make is to turn it totally off and turn your force feedback strength to something like 50-80%

Unfortunately you have none of these options in PS2 games so your stuck with what the game designer gives you......which is usually a light centering spring, some heavy dampening (makes ff feel sluggish) and weak effects strength, that combination is horrible for the DFP as it makes the wheel resist your countersteer that the car should be helping you do with it's force feedback.

All my friends have a hard time and hate driving EPR and D1GP and NFS and whatnot with the DFP because of that, but LOVE using it in LFS and GTR.......

it's all in the way it's programmed, I wish some game designers would figure that out....... GT4 got it right, but GT4 has bad tire physics so it still feels wrong because of that, but atleast the FF affects are right in GT4 ......GT3 too.

yes, at least someone can admit that the way FF works in Enthusia doesn't do the right thing - but has anyone seen the Mazda MX 5 video in the game? Do you guys think the man using the DFP had the FF turned off? The speed of the wheel is blistering so it can't be using FF, cause FF will always prevent you from turning the wheel with so much speed. And the real Mazda shows that the real wheel really does turn so incredibly quickly. ANds we are talking counter steering. To me, the conclusion is that reality wise, the FF is useless for steering in extreme situations in Enthusia and requires turning FF off, wich means plug it off , unplug the cabel from the wheel and use it pluged only to the console. This is quite a serious topis so if nobody replies I will try to start it as a separate threat, cause the video showing the difference between real steering and DFP steering is really important for understanding how to use DFP in Enthusia and I just can't figure this out. Whoever saw the video, likes the games and has DFP should think about this. It seems like the game is hidoing a secret, maybe the DFP they used for the video was modified so it work like a real wheel. and That modification might have cost a fortune, so basically it is not a DFP but some kind of luxury super expensive version of it.

 

[luftrofl]

DFP is better than Driving Force in these aspects; precision of steering, more detailed FF. Clumsy when an immediate countersteering around 180 degrees is required, DFP seems to disagree and won't let you do it. I only once in my life or maybe twice had to correct oversteering in my car and I had no problem with the steering wheel, it was light, but with DFP I almost break my arms. It absolutely doesn't feel realistic.

But let's talk about regular cars, say up to 200 HP. I don't drive RWD cars so maybe in RWD in a rainy weather you have to fight with the steering when countersteering BUT I DOUBT that. Maybe you have to fight with the steering wheel in a rough race car that has no power steering and you have to correct oversteer maybe then it is very very hard and you have to struggle with the wheel but I DOUBT that.

Did you see the Mazda MX 5 aka Miata video in Ethusia? Watch the real guy in the real car playing with the wheel - it is blistering fast, isn't it? Now watch the guy in fron of the TV screen using DFP. Can you see how FASt he turns the wheel? Now turn on the FF effect and try it again! NO WAY. If you saw the video in Enthusia please tell me how can you possibly turn the DFP so fast without having supernatural powers? ONly when you turn OFF the FF. But then there is no centering and no feeling at all. Now tell me how you see this.

That's why I suggetsted that Driving Force maybe better for countersteering as it is light enough so you can do things really fast and soon enough to correct things, while struggling with DFP is too slow, hence you spin out.

I still don't see how the "DFP is not always the best."

 

[rsmithdrift]

yes, at least someone can admit that the way FF works in Enthusia doesn't do the right thing - but has anyone seen the Mazda MX 5 video in the game? Do you guys think the man using the DFP had the FF turned off? The speed of the wheel is blistering so it can't be using FF, cause FF will always prevent you from turning the wheel with so much speed. And the real Mazda shows that the real wheel really does turn so incredibly quickly. ANds we are talking counter steering. To me, the conclusion is that reality wise, the FF is useless for steering in extreme situations in Enthusia and requires turning FF off, wich means plug it off , unplug the cabel from the wheel and use it pluged only to the console. This is quite a serious topis so if nobody replies I will try to start it as a separate threat, cause the video showing the difference between real steering and DFP steering is really important for understanding how to use DFP in Enthusia and I just can't figure this out. Whoever saw the video, likes the games and has DFP should think about this. It seems like the game is hidoing a secret, maybe the DFP they used for the video was modified so it work like a real wheel. and That modification might have cost a fortune, so basically it is not a DFP but some kind of luxury super expensive version of it.

That is so not true it's mind boggleing.........you can throw that thing left and right like crazy......it wears you out, but ****, I do it one handed so don't say it can't be done.

Also you have to learn to keep out of situations that require that sort of thing anyways, it's too hard to control a real car if your thowing it around that hard.......then again I have a very smooth and steady drift style, so I guess that's just me, but still, I can toss it lock to lock like no bodies buisiness.....

and btw, he's not throwing it as fast as I can in that video......if your wheel is resisting you that hard that you can't c/s quickly then something is wrong with it.

You just gotta get used to it, something we all deal with.

like I said before you gotta counter steer for it, don't just let it go and expect it to turn itself to the spot you want it like that, it won't happen 90% of the time.

 

[romanryunin]

That is so not true it's mind boggleing.........you can throw that thing left and right like crazy......it wears you out, but ****, I do it one handed so don't say it can't be done.

Also you have to learn to keep out of situations that require that sort of thing anyways, it's too hard to control a real car if your thowing it around that hard.......then again I have a very smooth and steady drift style, so I guess that's just me, but still, I can toss it lock to lock like no bodies buisiness.....

and btw, he's not throwing it as fast as I can in that video......if your wheel is resisting you that hard that you can't c/s quickly then something is wrong with it.

You just gotta get used to it, something we all deal with.

like I said before you gotta counter steer for it, don't just let it go and expect it to turn itself to the spot you want it like that, it won't happen 90% of the time.

first i appreciate your ideas
second the DFP wheel in the video doesn't look like a regular stock DFP, there is something different I guess

third i can steer the wheel against it FF will with a lot of effort, usually not quick enough and the wheel that is attached to a shelf that is attached to a cabinet on which my TV stands, moves the whole heavy furniture with the tough movement, i mean i have to pull about 20 kg to move it when counter steering - yes, you can do it but feels awful and strange

fourth - i actually remember fooling around on snow in my Escort - regular, FWD drive - and it had power steering so maybe it is that but i remember the CAR felt awfully heavy, but the steering was light

fifth - when i drive my car through hairpins, I don't worry about steering at all, no effort, no worries about centering, Force feedback or anythhng, much more do i have to worry about the proper braking points and the speed i maintain through the hairpin, too much speed and it understeers,
WHILE in the game driving with DFp in a similar car to mine through Dragon range means that in the hairpins I am lost - how much schould I steer, why does it fight against my will, etc, really miles different from the real thing, so don't tell me DFP works the same like a real steering wheel - I can compare my real car to a similar car in Enthusia - then DFP in hairpins is garbage, or maybe something IS wrong with the wheel, but i doubt that - a wheel that would work basically the same as a real wheel would have to cost ten times more, the FF effects and centering effects would have to be programmed in a very complex way and still DFP would not be sufficient hardware for it
just my ideas

sixth

my lap times on most tracks are about the same with DFP and Driving Force but at Dragon Range I get about 10 seconds faster with the cheap wheel as I don't have to struggle so much, it is lighter and doesn't prevent quick steering and responds quickly and precisely enough to let me make it precisely through the turns

 

[rsmithdrift]

Ok, that's fine, just your preference, I've driven little ff econobox cars like that and the steering really is feather light.

My old z on the other hand had very heavy and slow steering like the DFP, so I guess that's why I'm used to it.

I think you should turn your ff to mild in game and press select, r3, and left paddle simultaneously to lower the ff strenth to half. That or press select, r3, and right paddle simultaneously to put the wheel into 200 mode instead of 900 mode. This is the exactly the way the DF is setup. As half ff stenth, 200 mode and paddle shifting are the only differnces between the two. All of this is still programmed into the DFP. Use it if that's what you prefer.

Enjoy.

 

[Hun200kmh]

Just to add a bit of confusion here, I don't have a DFP, just a old DF that still works perfectly with EPR, but I find that FF on "strong" is what gives me the nearest feeling of "real life" FF.

 

[romanryunin]

Ok, that's fine, just your preference, I've driven little ff econobox cars like that and the steering really is feather light.

My old z on the other hand had very heavy and slow steering like the DFP, so I guess that's why I'm used to it.

I think you should turn your ff to mild in game and press select, r3, and left paddle simultaneously to lower the ff strenth to half. That or press select, r3, and right paddle simultaneously to put the wheel into 200 mode instead of 900 mode. This is the exactly the way the DF is setup. As half ff stenth, 200 mode and paddle shifting are the only differnces between the two. All of this is still programmed into the DFP. Use it if that's what you prefer.

Enjoy.

yes, I do use that half FF strength and it feels very close to the real thing, unless I have to correct a huge mistake and steer blistering fast - while with the cheap DF you do it with ease, with DFP it is difficult - when I switch DFP to the 200 mode, it is more sensitive than DF and too sensitive

as I say, most of the time DFP is great, but clumsy in rally style driving hairpins, a lot of oversteer countersteer, than DF although not so real, works better for me -

BUT do you really think the DFP on the video is set with FF at all? It seems it has to be off. I can easily turn it this fast, but with FF cable unplugged

when I watch onboard rally videos, the wheels turn a lot but the driver doesn't seem to struggle with it

sorry if i repeat myself, but it is just strange that most people say that DFP works in all situations just like a real steering wheel

 

[GarouGT]

Now that you mention it, yes it does feel like its harder to turn the DFP than in real life. Ive drove a Civic and a CRV (yep I like Hondas lol), and they're smooth at steering, no struggling at all. And in the DFP, yeah its more like a workout lol. And if i remember correctly, it counter steers just fine for me. I didnt struggle that much when drifting. But i guess i got used to it and so is everyone here.

Man I haven't played this game for a loooong time. Im going back to it when the G25 comes out

 

[JasBird]

I agree that in some situations the DFP is a little off. Maybe it's because the force feedback is too slow to follow. I guess it's one "motor" in the wheel who needs to give feedback for 2 directions, so sometime it gives feedback in one direction when you want to turn the wheel the other way? I guess that's why the G25 is comming with 2 motors to drive the feedback if I remeber correctly?

 

[Pink_the_Floyd]

A little bit?!

I can't believe no one has noticed the force feedback! Where did it come from? I've never experienced such an amount of force feedback, neither in my Previa or Legacy.

 

[romanryunin]

i guess that the bottom line is that in a twisty situation, with some hairpins, like Dragon Range, you see very big difference between your real car steering and DFP steering. But on Tsukuba, even if I have to countersteer a little, it feels really close. THen if I have to do the exercise like in the Mazda video in the game, then I can't compare, I haven't done that in real Mazda on tarmac, but I can't imagine doing it so fast with FF set to medium. Again I am saying the driver in the video, both the real car and the video car driver seem to do it with a lot of EASE and precision that can't be achieved with FF on and when FF is off, then you get no centering help, no FF help so you have to do it all by yourself and that cant' be realistic either,

so I am really puzzled about tthe DFP in the video, any clues what it is set like or is it really DFP?

 

[rsmithdrift]

The DFP in the video has a real race cars steering wheel on it that is about twice the diameter of the origional DFP's wheel and a larger wheel will reduce the ff affect.

And BTW, there is no difference between hard and medium ff stength when the wheel is in a dead area, like when countersteering. It's only when you hit resistance like turning into a turn or rumble strips that the ff affect strength matters.

In lamens terms, the centering ability is the same no matter what the settings elsewhere.

And yes, bigger wheel = easier to turn. And also a bigger wheel will make it appear that it is going faster than it really is. Larger diameter = greater speed to = same amount of time to steering ratio. Basically all that means is the wheel turns faster with less resistance.

 

[Omnis]

The reason why I hate my DFP is because of how horribly the feedback snaps the wheel back. Initial D in the arcades did a much better job of countersteering accuracy. My DFP just spins around like "urrrrrrgh" and just doesn't have a good feel in my opinion.

 

[rsmithdrift]

The reason why I hate my DFP is because of how horribly the feedback snaps the wheel back. Initial D in the arcades did a much better job of countersteering accuracy. My DFP just spins around like "urrrrrrgh" and just doesn't have a good feel in my opinion.

Again, I reiterate, this is the games fault. All PS2 Games except for the GT series are programmed to have force feedback similar to EPR's and it really does suck. I hate it for D1GP cause it doesn't feel right at all, but it's still fun once you get used to it cause you can sort of teach yourself to "ignore" the centering spring.

I still wish it was like PC games where you can adjust the DFP FF settings to your hearts content, along with turning distance, currently I run 80% ff strength, 720* lock to lock (RBR, LFS, NR2003 all need less radious than some games and with adjustable steering ratios you know...) 0% centering spring, 0% dampening, 0% latency.

Dampening and centering spring are what kill PS2 games. And is why people think GT3/4 are so much more realistic, truth is the physics in GT4 suck, but they got the steering ff right. Whereas EPR is as real as it gets but the ff isn't as good. It's good enough though, D1GP is the opitomy of WAY TOO MUCH CENTERING SPRING AND DAMPENING!! And TXR Drift is the same way....God I hate that.

 

[heavyboots]

I have to say I concur with rsmithdrift that the real issue with Enthusia is the lack of configurability. Check out this image of the Logitech wheel settings control panel from a review of the DFP:

On a PC you have tons more control over how the wheel behaves!

(BTW, I am actually down to only using 500 degrees total for RBR and considering dropping to 360. It drives me batty when I get the wheel spun over too far and the paddle shifters swap, because I have the "stick" set up to be E-brake and clutch.)

 

[romanryunin]

Thank you guys, now I am getting the responses I was looking for.

So what do you recommend to do in Enthusia with the DFP steering wheel?

Can you give a short summary including which points will be still wrong?

For example medium FF, but the centering is too strong?

BTW as far as i know from real driving, the centering in real car is very smooth and precise and I usually don't have to help the wheel with my hands much, let alone fight or look for the center point. IRL it's easy like an apricot nipple. Sorry - I ran out of idioms.

Plus do you guys believe the cheap simple Logitech wheel can make things more realistic in certain situations? Dragon Range, it is as easy to steer as IRL, it is just less precise, much less precise but still I get faster times than with DFP. With the Driving Force I just concentrate on the ideal line, braking points, apex, throttle, with DFP I have to struggle with the wheel in tight turns and lose time like that.

 

[heavyboots]

Well unfortunately, I can't help with a way to fix it--I don't find it intolerably bad personally so I've never worried about it too much. FWIW, in the argument of wheel vs controller, I will say that I broke down and bought it while trying to do stage 17 and that after a lot of unsuccessful attempts with the controller, it only took me a few tries to win it with the wheel (<10?).

IMHO, the benefits of the wheel are more refined steering and PEDALS. The pedals are much easier for me to modulate brakes and throttle with, not to mention the ability to left-foot brake, which I think would require an extra thumb on the controller, lol! I will agree with you about hairpins though--there is a *lot* of wheel action involved in making the turn vs just whacking the stick over on the controller. So while I can sympathize, I don't know of a fix off hand.

In any case it's been 2-3 months since I dragged my wheel back to the PS2 so it's all kind of hazy right now too. I've been attempting to get good enough at RBR to actually win the advanced rally. It is turning out to take all of my (minimal) spare time these days. Plus, I'm getting an Evo MR shipped in next week IRL, which will probably cut into my digital driving time quite heavily too!

 

[Adam West]

On the video, it is not the DFP at all. IT was a wheel that Konami was going to market with the game. THe wheel was made by Konami, not logitech. I wish they'd had released it at least in Japan - i would've imported it.

 

[rsmithdrift]

On the video, it is not the DFP at all. IT was a wheel that Konami was going to market with the game. THe wheel was made by Konami, not logitech. I wish they'd had released it at least in Japan - i would've imported it.

You got a link to the a site or some pics/stats?? I'm interested.

 

[JStimson]

I agree with the original poster. I have been autocrossing for almost 7 years in big cars, small cars, cars with manual and power steering, street tires, race tires, stock and fully race prepared. I have never experienced resistance from the steering wheel when countersteering to correct a tail slide. Most cars will give you a boost when trying to countersteer, many to the point that you can let go of the wheel and it will spin by itself in the right direction.

I can tell you why, too. The "centering force" that you feel on the steering wheel comes from forces that pull backwards on a turned wheel and tend to align it in the direction of motion, like a shopping cart wheel. Usually that direction is straight ahead. When the whole car is moving (sliding) in a direction that's different from the direction it's facing, those forces try to align the wheels in the direction of motion, so your "centering" forces have a new "center" with the steering wheel turned to one side. Try taking a shopping cart and making the rear wheels slide to one side, and watch what the front wheels do.

I originally noticed the resistance in the DFP to counter steering when playing GT4, so I disagree with anyone who says "GT4 doesn't do it". It happens in Enthusia, Live For Speed, and NFS: Porsche Unleashed. I just use the MOMO Force for the PC games, it feels much more natural. Unfortunately GT4 won't let me use the MOMO. I will give it a try in Enthusia...I hadn't thought about that.

 

[Wolfe]

I agree with JStimson. Countersteer should come naturally. However, the DFP's countersteer problem isn't limited to the centering-spring force, which can be disabled on a PC (and therefore "eliminate" the problem). The DFP's gear-based design simply isn't made to change direction suddenly or rotate quickly, and will complain with friction and a lot of noise if you force it.

As a result, you can lessen the problem with a PC sim like Live for Speed (I can even get the wheel to countersteer on its own in a slide), but not eliminate it entirely.

 

[rsmithdrift]

You know it's funny, I gave Enthu a run around to try and get my perfect "Show Drift" lap down the Dragon last night ,and I still don't feel it doing this at all in EPR. Once my wheel gets warmed up it spins so easily I can throw it from straight ahead position to full lock in one toss......No problem.....it's not even loud. And the Force Feedback guides it to where it needs to be almost perfectly... I actually found I wasn't even trying to yank the wheel around. Now don't get me wrong, if I got into trouble with it or something, or had to manhandle the car, I'd have to "assist in speeding up the process", and even then it wasn't a problem because the ff is turning that direction also and yanking against the Force Feedback which was pulling in the opposite direction at full force and felt good and strong like usuall when having to under correct....... Felt just like my real car on the touge (93 240sx) Then agian I have crazy car control in general so it might just be me lol.

Maybe you guys need to grease you main gears. Mines quiet as hell compaired to what most people's are and spins MUCH MUCH easier w/o force feedback pulling. Hell, it spins it'self at a high rate of speed. lol. I don't have to turn it to counter steer, it does it for me most of the time.

Here, do this, very easy and likely free mod to help fix the problems you guys keep complaining of......

Put black R/C car gear grease on the gears in the DFP. Once that pupy gets warmed up it'll be nearly whisper quiet and won't have nearly as much play, and spins faster too. I use 1/2 force feedback (r3, select, left paddle) until it gets warmed up, once it gets up to temps the ff seems to drop off some, as it should, and I bring it back to full force and it's so smooth and quiet.......God I love it. K, now I want to drive right now!!

Though, I will say, I think alot of the problem is that Logitech used the wrong type of motor, they used a low rpm, super high torque motor which turns very slowly when they should have used something much faster with less torque, as that's more realistic.