Enthusia Lives!
- Thread starter Adam West
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In the fall of '05, Japanese Subaru dealerships were giving out Enthusia demos with the new Impreza and a few courses.
Robin
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How come he cut the vid just as we are about to see the car racing!
I thought when you said new Impreza it would be the new hatchback wierd looking one!
It would be great if this was a demo somewhere becauce I never bought enthusia..
Hmm next gen enthusia never occured to me... this may be an alpha build of a new game judging by the quality of the modelling (although I didnt see the original game) maybe thats why he didnt show us the next gen track render...
Robin
I thought when you said new Impreza it would be the new hatchback wierd looking one!
It would be great if this was a demo somewhere becauce I never bought enthusia..
Hmm next gen enthusia never occured to me... this may be an alpha build of a new game judging by the quality of the modelling (although I didnt see the original game) maybe thats why he didnt show us the next gen track render...
Robin
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Any word of Enthusia for the PS3?
No word of a new Enthusia at all, but as a friend rightfully pointed out to me the other day, they were working on the first game for about 4 years or so, and it kinda came out of nowhere when they announced it and released it.
In terms of what console to produce it for, I'm hoping for the Wii or 360. Attempting to compete with Gran Turismo again -- and on the console with the lowest amount of sales -- would be a poor decision on Konami's part. The 360 is the safest bet, but establishing themselves as the premiere Nintendo driving simulator (as GT is with Sony and FM with Microsoft) could do the Enthusia team a world of wonders.
In terms of what console to produce it for, I'm hoping for the Wii or 360. Attempting to compete with Gran Turismo again -- and on the console with the lowest amount of sales -- would be a poor decision on Konami's part. The 360 is the safest bet, but establishing themselves as the premiere Nintendo driving simulator (as GT is with Sony and FM with Microsoft) could do the Enthusia team a world of wonders.
Scaff
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Personally I would be amazed if Konami developed Enthusia 2 (if of course it exists) for the Wii, as any development from the current version would be minimal to say the least. I would also question exactly how well a pure driving/racing sim would do on the Wii, given the machines principal target audience. That's not a dig at the Wii or its owners, simply stating that it is firmly positioned as a family machine.
If it does come I would strongly suspect a multi-format version for both 360 and PS3, that would allow sales to be maximised across both next gen-machines. Keep in mind when discussing PS3 vs 360 sales that the 'home' market is very important to Konami and the 360 is not exactly doing well at all in Japan. Despite the nay-sayers the PS3 is far from dead and to ignore it could be just as costly to Konami as ignoring the 360.
Regards
Scaff
Were you amazed that Polyphony Digital developed Gran Turismo 4 for the PS2, since any development from GT3 would have been minimal? GT2 from GT1?
In any case, even the GameCube was noticably more powerful than the PS2. The Wii's capabilities have been compared to the first Xbox, which is more than enough to improve where Enthusia left off.
I know plenty of GameCube/Wii owners that bought lackluster/shallow racing titles just because they were desperate for a racing game on their Nintendo system. And I'm one of them. People don't buy GT Pro Series or Excite Truck because they're excellent games.
If given their very own driving sim, I think Wii-owning racing game fans would latch on to it, even if it was as difficult as Enthusia. After all, Gran Turismo's difficulty doesn't stop everyone on the planet from thinking it's the best racing game series ever made.
And don't forget -- the standard-issue controller, the Wiimote, is actually a half-decent replacement for a wheel. It's certainly more intuitive to the average gamer than a small analog joystick.
I understand that the 360 isn't doing very well in Japan. I also understand that Japanese developers have been less than enthusiastic about the PS3, and that they understand that america is a big market for them.
Let me explain it another way -- the next entry in Namco's widely-acclaimed and long-time-Sony-exclusive Ace Combat series will only be released for 360. A 360-exclusive Enthusia 2 would be a drop in the bucket compared to the gamble Namco took with that decision. I don't think Konami would be worried, especially with all the money they'd save by not developing for the PS3.
Again, if an Enthusia 2 is in the works, I'm fully expecting it to be released for the 360. But it would be nice if it was for the Wii.
Scaff
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Oh come on be serious do you not think that given the minimal differences and development that would be required to produce a 'tweaked' version on the current Enthusia for the Wii that we would have seen it already.
That the Wii is comparable to the original Xbox is not in my opinion enough to see a massive leap from the original Enthusia.
I know plenty of GameCube/Wii owners that bought lackluster/shallow racing titles just because they were desperate for a racing game on their Nintendo system. And I'm one of them. People don't buy GT Pro Series or Excite Truck because they're excellent games.
If given their very own driving sim, I think Wii-owning racing game fans would latch on to it, even if it was as difficult as Enthusia. After all, Gran Turismo's difficulty doesn't stop everyone on the planet from thinking it's the best racing game series ever made.
And don't forget -- the standard-issue controller, the Wiimote, is actually a half-decent replacement for a wheel. It's certainly more intuitive to the average gamer than a small analog joystick.
The average gamer treated Enthusia on the PS2 as if it were a plague bearing rat, the only people interested in it were those looking for a descent console sim, and that was on the PS2. The Wii sales charts are dominated (and always have been) by family and party games, which kind of gives an indication of the gaming preferences of the vast majority of Wii owners. Yes a number of Wii owners would by a version of Enthusia if it came out in the Wii, but not (in my opinion) in sufficient number to make it even remotely viable.
Sorry but this just seems to be a resurrection of your personal dislike for Sony and the PS3, we could sit here all day and reel off lists of exclusives (and good ones) for both the PS3 and 360. Simple fact of the matter is that most titles are being released for both the 360 and PS3 currently. However if you want to look at Konami, they obviously don't see the PS3 as that big a risk seeing as MGS4 is a PS3 exclusive. See its an easy game to play.
You may also what to check on AC6, even the official Xbox magazine acknowledge it as a timed exclusive (more the norm these days)
Source - http://kotaku.com/gaming/ace-combat-6/oxm-says-ace-combat-6-is-360-timed-exclusive-250945.php
PS3 sales are growing well in all markets and to ignore a duel platform release for a title that has also had a small, niche following would be daft.
Regards
Scaff
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I'd like for Enthusia to live. Enhance the good qualities, add new material, fix shortcomings... Konami can make this a smash on the PS3. It won't be Konami's all-out attempt to take down Gran Turismo, but it is quite possibly the most underrated racing game of all time since the release of Gran Turismo. I'm interested in any plans to make Enthusia better than it ever was.
Minimal differences? Tweaked version? You talk as if the Wii isn't a completely different hardware unit from the PS2, with different architecture and a different developer's kit. Not to mention the dedication that the Enthusia team demonstrated with the first game, showing that they'd put more time and effort into a sequel than just "tweaking" it.
I never said anything about a massive leap. If you don't think the Xbox versions of last generation's games were (usually) the best-looking, that's your opinion.
The way I remember it, shortly before the release of the 360, "PS2 version" had become synonymous with "ugliest, most spartan, and most compromised version."
You can't honestly tell me that the Gran Turismo series is popular because the people who buy it are all driving-sim gamers. Or Forza, for that matter. Those two game series are successful because they're the big-name driving games on their respective systems, with shiny graphics and a bunch of cars and tracks. The claims of "realism" are just a bragging-rights selling point, and the excuse for why they're harder to play than Ridge Racer.
The reason why Enthusia failed was because it was seen as nothing more than a quirky and much-more-difficult-to-play alternative to GT4. If an EPR2 came out for PS3, everyone would just play GT5. If an EPR2 came out for 360, everyone would just play Forza.
The point I'm trying to make is that if an EPR2 came out for the Wii, there wouldn't be any other choice. The difficulty and realism wouldn't matter, because it would be the 200+ car, 50+ track, shiny-graphics racing game for the system. You may not believe it, but Wii owners and people who like cars/racing aren't mutually exclusive entities.
Again, I will reiterate that I am not trying to say that the Wii is the best choice of system for an EPR2, but that it is a choice. To say that the Wii is incapable of hosting its own driving sim, be it for hardware or market reasons, is an unfair underestimation of the capabilities of the system and an insult to the intelligence and maturity level of those who bought it, IMO.
What can I say, everyone has opinions and I think the PS3 is even more of a failure than the PSP. I don't scorn those who bought one, but I don't hide what I think. Does this change the fact that we're both doing nothing more than speculating over a very-likely-to-never-exist game based on our own opinions?
MGS4 is a PS3 exclusive, yes, but it's not like Hideo Kojima hasn't expressed his concerns and doubts over the PS3.
Information on Ace Combat 6's exclusivity is mixed, but there are many more sources that point to it being permanent than those that state that it's timed.
If you think Konami would spend the money to try to compete with GT5 on the PS3, that's your theory. To me, that sounds like hiring a hyper-expensive helicopter transport service just to send some scrawny nerdy guy to have a boxing match with a heavyweight champion on a sinking ship in the middle of the ocean.
Scaff
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Your taking me out of context here, I was not referring to minimal differences between the systems in terms of architecture, I'm saying the minimal difference in what the end product would be from the original Enthusia.
In regard to difference between PS2 and Xbox games, well it depended on the title and what the lead platform for it was. I would however quite happily say that later PS2 titles such as God of War and Ico were a match for the majority of Xbox out in terms of visual and gameplay quality.
I don't believe I made such a claim at all, GT sells well because of its history, marketing and looks. Personally I think the 'realism' side of it is a minor factor in it for a lot of buyers.
The reason Enthusia failed is a lot more than that, if it was that simple then we would not still have a Race Driver series, no Enthusia was a poorly marketed title, that was launched at the wrong time and the hideous menu system hampered in in the review section. A lot of the reasons for Enthusia lack of success rest with how the title was released as well as its competitors.
Sorry but absolutely nothing at all that I has said in any way can be taken as an insult to the intelligence or maturity level of Wii owners at all.
To take what I said and even suggest that is a massive leap, I said that such a title would not appeal to the majority of Wii owners (many, many of whom are not traditional gamers). The Wii sales charts clearly shows the preference Wii owners have in games and these are not racing games of any sort. That has nothing at all to do with maturity or intelligence.
My point is why launch a title that based upon the current preferences of Wii owners would not shift as many units as a launch on the 360 and PS3, that has bugger all to do with how intelligent and/or mature Wii owners are.
Yes the only handheld console that has managed to survive in the market against Nintendo is a failure. Does it shift as many units as the DS, no it doesn't; but the Xbox didn't shift as many as the PS2, did that make the Xbox a failure? Again no, but lets see the PSP has shipped over 25 million units worldwide to date, and that makes it a failure? In the three years its been around its shifted as many units as the Xbox did in its entire five year lifespan! Yes it is around half the units the DS has done, but other than both being handheld are they really directly comparable? So while you can judge the PSP by simply units shifted against the DS, and could make an argument that in simple sales comparisons its failed, I would still dispute that you can call any product that has shifted 25 million to date a failure (and to ensure no bias on my part can be claimed here my house hold does own a PSP, but also four DS - 2 original and two lites).
Your comments and opinions on the PS3 I remember well from previous conversations, most of which I recall were basically reasons why you would not buy a PS3, rather than any actual solid issue with the PS3 itself.
No more or less than he has made about the 360 and its issues; please remember that he has said that MGS4 needs Blu-ray and that large storage will be a must for future games.
Hold on one second, I have at no point said that I believe that Konami should try and compete just with GT5 on the PS3, quite the opposite from my very first post in here I have stated that I would expect to see it be a release on both the 360 and PS3. The way you are talking no point exists in any one bothering to launch any racing titles on the PS3 as the big bad GT5 will just eat them for dinner, which I don't buy at all.
Regards
Scaff
You were saying that there would be such little difference that Konami would already have revealed the game. I was replying that "porting" Enthusia to the Wii would take more than a simple rearranging of a few 1s and 0s, and that the Enthusia team would most likely put far more effort into it than just "tweaking" it.
By "Ico," I assume you mean "Shadow of the Colossus."
And yes, it always depends, not only because different developers can achieve different results, but also because evaluating graphical quality has some degree of subjectivity to it.
However, I would still say that Xbox titles generally demonstrated that the power advantage the system had over the PS2 wasn't left unused.
The only major things the Race Driver series has in common with Gran Turismo are that it has real-world cars and is supposed to be realistic. Otherwise, Race Driver is much more similar in concept to the GTR games. It wouldn't call it a Gran Turismo fighter, and even if I did, I wouldn't describe it as more difficult than GT4, either.
Enthusia certainly has its share of flaws, but most of them are hardly unforgivable -- it's for that reason that I'm still not convinced that it truly bombed for any reason other than its difficulty. People would try to do a race, slam into the wall on every corner, get frustrated, and decide they dislike/hate the game. From that point, the quirks and shortcomings became an easy target.
So you would agree if someone said that the Wii hardware is utterly incapable of processing a quality driving sim, and that the market for a driving sim of any kind on the Wii is nonexistent? That's the requirement for the statement to apply to you.
Scaff, the racing game is one of the most ubiquitous and diverse genres in the videogame world. It's been said that every console needs at least one good one. And you agreed with me when I said that Gran Turismo's realism is considered by many to be nothing more than an explanation of why it isn't an easy game to play.
Anyone clamoring for a good racing game for their Wii would excuse it if it was difficult, as long as they could be convinced that it was "realistic." Gran Turismo did it, and Forza did it.
I suppose that also has nothing at all to do with the fact that the vast majority of the current game library consists of family/party games, or the fact that the handful of racing games that do exist are mediocre or worse, right?
To break into an entirely unsaturated market, take a bit of a gamble, and establish themselves as the big-name Nintendo racing game title, much in the same way as Gran Turismo is with Sony and Forza is with Microsoft? And then rake in a ton of cash?
I know you think this is impossible, but a lot of people were looking forward to GT Pro Series, thinking it'd be the Wii's Gran Turismo. Sadly, I don't think they could have been let down any harder.
Of course, the game's mediocrity didn't stop some people from thinking it's a great driving sim.I wasn't speaking in terms of sales numbers for the PSP at all, although a lot of people that bought it did so more for the sake of bragging than because of the unit's qualities -- like, say, the iPhone.
No, I think the PSP is a failure because Sony's attempt to turn its disc format into a portable movie player format failed, the system is fragile, the battery life is notoriously short, the games library remains somewhat lackluster, and, most importantly of all, no one talks about it anymore. It wouldn't surprise me if Sony didn't try again with a PSP2.
With all of that said, if I was the type of person to play handhelds, I'd get a PSP. It's flat-out the better choice for racing games, and there isn't much in the DS' library that appeals to me.
So I have to have a "solid issue" with a console in order to share any comments or opinions of it? I admit I didn't know enough about the PS3 and 360 going into that particular discussion, but "console wars" arguments are never a model of objectivity.
I didn't say "just" GT5, or "just" on the PS3. Regardless of whether or not the 360 was included, my point was that developing for the PS3 is expensive, and when your product is essentially an alternative to Gran Turismo that is hated by most of the few people that are familiar with it (not "any racing title," as you state here), the costs far outweigh the potential benefits.
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Don't say things like that. It's mean.
I'm gonna say that I would hope it's on the 360. I'm definitely considering getting a 360, while the PS3 is something I would question keeping if it fell in my lap.
I'll be honest and admit that if konami put it on the Wii they would undoubtedly try too hard to make some kind of unique control scheme, and ruin the game play entirely. In my opinion the wiimote lacks any kind of secured feedback that would be necessary for a realistic driving game.
What I would hope for is some kind of magical way people across the globe could gather virtually and challenge each other to races in real time. Maybe they would connect over some kind of network that would be live in some ways.
If only such a thing existed.
Also a real customization system would be nice. I ain't saying put some sweet body kits and some rims (though that would bring in more players), but you know... It'd just be nice if they dropped this tuning level bull**** and let me choose what parts I used.
Hey I can dream can't I?
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This reminds me, I was listening to the 1UP podcast this week from some gaming trade show in Japan and sadly, the impression I got was that Konami is about to start chasing the "casual gamer" crowd pretty hard. Which will probably eat into whatever pie-in-the-sky resources they might have available for a project like EPR2... 
At this point, I'm guessing our best console racer hope is the sim mode that GT5 is supposed to be including. Here's hoping they make it good!
At this point, I'm guessing our best console racer hope is the sim mode that GT5 is supposed to be including. Here's hoping they make it good!
Scaff
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No, by Ico I mean Ico...
...but Shadow of the Colossus was a descent title as well.
That we will never know given that MS pulled to plug on the Xbox when many considered it still capable of more.
And I would have to disagree with that, both series feature a range of driving disciplines, road and race cars, real world circuits and fantasy ones, a pretension to be a simulation, hell even the strap lines are near identical. That one is more of a sim that the other many people will argue about (and do so here), but the simple fact that people compare them and they are marketed to similar audiences makes them competitors.
If that were the case then bargain bins around the UK would be awash with used copies of Enthusia from all the people who bought the game and then returned it when they found it to difficult. However a used copy of Enthusia is bloody difficult to come across in the UK, which would seem to indicate to me that a good number of people were simply not aware of it at all.
I mean we still get people post here saying that they came across Enthusia by accident and didn't know what it was, asking if it is any good. Konami did themselves no favours at all with the lackluster launch of Enthusia, because no matter how good something is, if people don't know about it will not sell.
I have said nothing of the sort, the Wii hardware is more than capable of supporting a Sim of a similar level to the PS2 and Xbox, I would however cast some doubt over exactly how suitable the controllers would be for a good sim. However I would put a question mark over the size of the audience for a real sim on the Wii.
If we were talking about arcade racing games then I would quite happily agree with you, but racing sims we would have to disagree on.
I've not said its impossible (that seems to be your claim regarding any competitor to GT), simple far, far less likely than a second Enthusia on the 360 and PS3.I suppose that also has nothing at all to do with the fact that the vast majority of the current game library consists of family/party games, or the fact that the handful of racing games that do exist are mediocre or worse, right?
To break into an entirely unsaturated market, take a bit of a gamble, and establish themselves as the big-name Nintendo racing game title, much in the same way as Gran Turismo is with Sony and Forza is with Microsoft? And then rake in a ton of cash?
I know you think this is impossible, but a lot of people were looking forward to GT Pro Series, thinking it'd be the Wii's Gran Turismo. Sadly, I don't think they could have been let down any harder.
Is it not beyond possibility that the reason why the Wii sales charts are full of family and party games is that the vast majority of Wii owners want titles of this nature? As I said above I think a good arcade racer would do well on the Wii, but a driving Sim, well no I don't think that would do well.
Just because the UMD failed as a movie format does not make the PSP a failure, it makes UMD a failure as a movie format. Now I would agree that the battery life is short on the PSP, but given that mine lives in my laptop bag and travels regularly I would disagree that it is fragile. From personal experience its no more fragile than a DS.
Fine if you are expressing a personal preference for a system, but to dismiss one as a failure or going to fail I would expect to be backed up with a solid reason as to why.
A point that we will have to disagree on, as your argument would basically make the development of any sim on the 360 or PS3 a pointless one (best go tell Codemasters to stop work on Race Driver One).
Regards
Scaff
If a sequel for Enthusia was to be released, i would seriously hope it wouldn't be for the Wii, for two huge reasons:
First one. Is of course, the target audience.
Most Wii owners are waiting for the next Mario Kart, not the next ultrarealistic sim. The console is just not marketed towards "hardcore" people (to some extent you can argue the same for xbox/ps3 when it comes to sims), and the people that buy it don't even take gaming seriously, let alone invest a lot of time which casual gamers define as "work" to learn how to properly drive in a simulator.
That's the main issue i see with it coming out for the Wii.
Also, i completley disagree with the Wiimote being a decent substitue to a steering wheel, i sure as hell wouldn't like driving my car with a Wiimote.
The other reason i wouldn't like it to come for the Wii, is the fact that the hardware is orders of magnitude slower than the 360 or the PS3.
It's not a slight difference in performance, it's huge.
When you're going for realisim there's simply no hardware out that can deliver true realisim, at least not in the forseeable future.
So why develop it for hardware that can deliver a far less accurate experience?
If you think about it, GT5 is using the Cell in a very straightfoward kind of way, they are improving the visuals by a huge ammount when it comes to the cars, but because they are going for 1080p they are sacrificing a lot of other effects that could add to the realisim, such as enviromental effects.
For example: Rain, the way water would realisticly splash from the tyres, the handling differences involved with that, snow, deformable terrain for certain tracks, etc. and of course let's not forget realistic damage, no pre-determined damage though please, i wouldn't mind driving a sim where i could total my car like in real life. Damage would be the last thing on my list though.
Think about it, Konami could really go a different route than GT5 here, by instead of focusing on getting the game to run smooth at 1080p and having cars that are eating up most of the processing power, they could go for realistic enviroments, and physics that are not "simulated", but generated in real time.
What i'm trying to say is, they could really come out with a product that is substancially different from GT.
Of course the problem here, is that to get good results they would need a big budget, something which the first enthusia lacked, and judging from the limited success of the game, wouldn't get much of a budget for the sequel.
So, while it's really nice to dream, i don't think it's something that's going to happen. =(
Man, to be honest, i would just settle with PD buying these guys assets and using them for their "realistic physics" mode if theirs isn't as good as it should be. But of course that's just another dream... so lets hope PD gets it's **** right this time around.
If all that failed, and their budget was really limited it'd be just nice to see them re-release EPR on the PSN store, add high def, more cars and tracks, and multiplayer, that'd keep me pretty happy till GT5 came out.
Oh. Because Ico isn't a late-release PS2 title. It was one of the first.No, by Ico I mean Ico...
...but Shadow of the Colossus was a descent title as well.
My point had nothing to do with the poor marketing effort, on which I agree with you.
Could be. There's no way to tell, 'cause we really don't have anything else to choose from.
Every driving sim series out there is "hated by most of the few people that are familiar with it," now?
I guess you're right -- there isn't a single serious gamer out there who would have wanted the cheapest next-gen console or a unique gaming experience. Hell, no one can afford to have a Wii and one or both of the other two consoles. Shucks.
In all seriousness, there's no denying that the console is marketed towards the general public -- that's the whole point of the thing, to bring people into the videogame market that weren't already a part of it. However, any developer that assumes that the console is only intended for those people, or that it only appeals to those people, is missing out on sales and helping to turn the console into another FailCube.
You've missed the point. Which is a more intuitive replacement for a wheel -- the Wiimote, or a gamepad?
I've successfully run Live for Speed at a bearable framerate on an old 533Mhz laptop with an onboard videochip and 128Mb of RAM. It was still the most realistic driving simulator on the planet.
Good physics don't take much power if you design them correctly to begin with.
Scaff
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2001 release for the US and Japan and 2002 for Europe, so a good 2/3 years after launch, how about we split this one as its makes no difference to my point, which is the additional power the Xbox had over the PS2 was not always utilised, most of the games on it were very generic, safe titles. That I can recall noting like Ico ever hit the Xbox.
So you would concede that one of the issues behind Enthusia failing on the PS2 was poor marketing. If that's the case why would Enthusia 2 on the PS3 and/or 360 be an automatic fail just because they already have established racing series? A descent well thought out marketing campaign would certainly make a major difference if a second Enthusia was to come out.
Sorry but I fail to understand exactly what you are trying to say here. I wasn't the one who implied that the main reason a second Enthusia would fail on the PS3 or 360 was because of GT5 and FM2.
Neither of us either said or implied that, in fact I would happily admit that there has to be some serious gamers with Wii's. My point is that the do not make up a significant part of the target audience for the Wii, and the number of serious games who are after a hard-core racing sim I would suspect is even lower. In addition those serious gamers who own Wii's may well also own a PS3 or 360 (after all most hard-core gamers tend to own more than one console).
I am not arguing that these people don't exist, rather that I believe too few of them own Wii's, and given the lack of even semi-serious racing titles on the Wii to date, game studios seem to currently be in agreement.
For me (and I have used both) a gamepad without a doubt. However both the PS3 and 360 support good wheel and pedal set-ups, not even currently an option for the Wii.
Quite true, but as you made such a point of earlier, we are talking very different architecture to work with here. Hell you could argue that GPL did it long before LFS and with an even lower minimum spec. However to get a solid framerate with graphics that will be acceptable to a wide enough target audience to make it a viable product is quite a different thing. A lot of difference exists between a 'pet' project turned niche product distributed to PC sim heads and a stand-alone title for a console that is firmly aimed at a new 'gaming' audience.
If I am to be totally honest about this entire thing I would have to say that I feel your main motivation in arguing that the Wii would be the best place for Enthusia 2 (if it ever comes) is principally down to the fact that you own one.
Regards
Scaff
A next enthusia coming for the wii wil be the biggest joke. Enthusia is my favorite racing game but I have no desire whatsoever to play it on the wii. Konami knows what its doing, Im confident they will be releasing it (if they are making a new one) on ps3 all they need is a better strategy and marketing. I for one cant imagine playing enthusia without a decent steering wheel (logitech driving force pro at least) and playing it with that controller is just silly. And I really dont see logitech or another company releasing a decent steeringwheel for the wii.
640K ought to be enough for anybody, right?
The fact is, we'll be moving away from formula based physics, to physics that are "generated" by the CPU, this will eventually lead to a far more realistic experience than anything possible at the moment.
Right now physics are more complicated for the developers than they should be.
the key is going to be to move away from physics that are formula based, to physics that overwhelm the CPU.
It's going to be easier for the developers to get them right once they start moving down that path.
I don't think there's a single sim out right now, that does physics this way.
If you haven't allready, check out "Rigs of rods" to give you an idea of how physics are eventually gonna be made.
Check out an interview with a developer for Forza, just to give you an idea of how physics are made now, and where they're going:
http://channel9.msdn.com/showpost.aspx?postid=314874
I see what you mean that right now the biggest problems isn't linked to lack of hardware power, but you can't deny a PS3 or a 360 wouldn't enable a developer to make a better simulator.
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I dunno. I'm starting to get the feeling that Wolfe has a deep-seated, irrational, quasi-maniacal hatred of Sony &/or PD.
IMO each of Forza, GT4 & EPR had something to offer. None of them got it entirely right. Turn10 had the first shot at a "next-gen" take on the racing/driving simulator & failed to to make a really major step beyond Forza 1 (most importantly, for me, by failing to support a first-rate steering wheel).
PD has the next opportunity: I hope that they provide the good things that the Gt series provided in the past, but add better AI, improved physics (incorporating the best features of EPR's physics), & some kind of damage.
It seems to me very unlikely that Konami will step into the ring again, but as long as what EPR provided in the way of a more detailed weight-transfer & tire physics finds it's way into GT5, I won't miss EPR, with all its other shortcomings, at all.
All I'm looking for is ONE decent driving sim in next gen consoles.
IMO each of Forza, GT4 & EPR had something to offer. None of them got it entirely right. Turn10 had the first shot at a "next-gen" take on the racing/driving simulator & failed to to make a really major step beyond Forza 1 (most importantly, for me, by failing to support a first-rate steering wheel).
PD has the next opportunity: I hope that they provide the good things that the Gt series provided in the past, but add better AI, improved physics (incorporating the best features of EPR's physics), & some kind of damage.
It seems to me very unlikely that Konami will step into the ring again, but as long as what EPR provided in the way of a more detailed weight-transfer & tire physics finds it's way into GT5, I won't miss EPR, with all its other shortcomings, at all.
All I'm looking for is ONE decent driving sim in next gen consoles.
Purely on a physics level, yes. GT4 was over for me as soon as i finished playing through the game. The main reason was because they all but completely omitted one whole part of driving. Oversteer.Biggles
I really should drive Enthusia and GT3 back-to-back to compare the two of them. I know that Enthusia will come up trumps. 900 degree steering and more accurately modelled physics (i.e. Enthusia physics engine info) give it the edge. But it would be an interesting comparison nonetheless.
My entire point in a nutshell.
The differences in content should be obvious, but yes, I think GT3 plays better than GT4. It's still quite inaccurate and rather vague, but it's enjoyable.
My ownership of a Wii is only a factor in the fact that I consider it a viable option for a driving simulator of some sort.Oh come on are you honesty going to say that your ownership of a Wii is not a factor in this?
Scaff
In order for it to be my "main motivation in arguing that the Wii would be the best place for Enthusia 2," I would first have to argue that the Wii would be the best place for Enthusia 2, would I not?
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