Enthusia: Where's the Love ?

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MisterToad

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Hey, guys. I'm new to Enthusia and really enjoying it. I posted the following at Race Sim Central Forums. LOL, my thread got 0 responses. So I guess my question still stands. I've got my own opinions as to why I think Enthusia seems destined to go down in the annals of driving games as an under-appreciated diamond in the rough. But I'd like to read yours.

First of all, let me state that I came very late to the party. Played GT4 for quite a while, when Forza hit the stands I probably bought the first copy at the local EB. Played Forza non-stop from May until last week. Then I decided it was time to come up for air and give Enthusia a go for a change of pace. Found a used copy without much trouble and gave it a go.

Based on the generally lukewarm review scores, and the seeming indifference to this game, I had fairly low expectations. But all I can say is, WOW ! Okay, graphically, it's behind the curve relative to GT4 or Forza (even Race Driver 2), the interface is a clunky affair, there's the goofy lottery system, tracks are mostly so-so and so on. But for me, the physics come pretty close to redeeming all. In fact, they do. :) I think Forza (and GT4) come off second best when it comes to the sensation of weightiness to your car, the effects of weight transfer and approximating the feel of your tires on the road. The sound effects are very well done as well too, a lot of the cars sound better in Enthusia than their counterparts in GT4 and Forza. The car selection isn't half bad either. Admittedly weak when it comes to top drawer racing cars, but there are plenty of gems to be mined in the production car ranks.

The career mode feels disappointingly aimless at first, relative to racking up trophies and completion % in GT4. But I've grown to like the handicapping system, which encourages you to contest the AI in a lesser car, whereas in GT4, there's so much to accomplish that there's a strong temptation just to show up for every race loaded for bear, crush the AI, tick that series off on your scorecard and move on to the next. In comparision, Enthusia seems to invite you to amble through it, savoring the qualities of the various cars, and sticking with favorites as they level up and become ever more potent.


Why do you think there seems to be so little interest in this game ?
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Interesting point. I think it's for different reasons, but mainly good physics doesn't seem to be the most important thing for majority of gamers. Same thing happend with Grand Prix Legends & Richard Burns Rally. Excellent physics and games, but not big hits compared to other less realistic games.

Lets say that a game review represents the average gamer, and they seem to mention things like graphics, online play, number of cars etc.

Also I assume most gamers don't have a wheel either which is almost essential with realistic physics. Atleast to enjoy them.

Still after considering myself a hardcore sim fan for years on PC and now on the PS2, I think that most car games seem to follow the trend of becoming more sim oriented. One reason I think being better hardware. Also I think the average gamer is older today than say 10 years ago, so I think games also have to challenge "grown up" gamers too. It's not only kids who plays games like in the 80's?
 
Polyphony Digital, Microsoft, Codemasters...everyone who makes a sim game these days claims that their game is the most realistic, and their marketing agencies have the general public (as well as many videogame reviewers) utterly convinced that cars behave in real life exactly like in Gran Turismo, Forza, Race Driver, etc.

As pretty much everyone who's a regular in here already knows, that couldn't be farther from the truth.

Anyways, these "average gamers" (and reviewers) play Enthusia, understeer all the time, spin, hit walls, and generally drive like *#$@. Who's to blame? Not them, of course, they've mastered GT and Forza, and those are the most realistic games ever. Naturally Konami must've screwed up, and made an unrealistically hard-to-play driving game.

Admittedly, there are some reviews out there that score the game rather low because of Enthusia's true faults (clunky menu system, lottery car-earning, etc.), but considering the audience a racing sim should have, these faults shouldn't count much compared to the physics. Yet they do.

So in the end, Enthusia reviews score low, PD/MS fanboys sneer, and copies of Enthusia sit alone on store shelves. Your thread's title says it all.
 
Bullitt73
Same thing happend with Grand Prix Legends & Richard Burns Rally. Excellent physics and games, but not big hits compared to other less realistic games.
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Grand Prix Legends never had to fight the battle of "That game can't be realistic, it's for a console."

You'll see that a lot at websites like RaceSimCentral, where Mr. Toad first posted.
 
From my experience, I tried to convince some hardcore car nuts to get into Enthusia, but when I started talking about it, they asked "How many cars does it have?" and decided not to play it because it's nowhere near 700. Purely for that reason, and these are people who would be awesome at it with a DFP.

I think that fanboyism is the major reason though, hence all this GT4 vs Forza and console vs PC crap. We all know that real sim fans will try a racing sim no matter the system. There have been some people at ForzaCentral who tried it and didn't like it for some genuine reasons, including the Enthusia Life flaws and no-online play.

Wolfe2x7, that was brilliantly written.
 
Yes great post Wolfe2x7. And like you say it's ironic that games that advertise as having real world physics have higher sales than games that actually have very good physics.

Also like Tortus says, the number of cars, tunning etc seems to be a better selling point. Look at reviews of Forza. All this talk about you can customize cars, and they actually have Ferrari's, Porsches etc. All good of course, but not the most important thing for me.

When it comes too "That game can't be realistic, it's for a console." I've been there myself, but I know better now :) Got on the console wagon almost by accident 👍

Another thing a hardcore simmer must have is cockpit view. Been there too :) . A lot of people won't even touch a game if it doesn't have a real cockpit view. Now I could write a whole articel on why I don't think that should matter, but I'll leave that for another time.
 
Having no cockpit is a serious bummer, but I don't think there's exactly a lot of choice and variety in the sim market to dismiss a game for not having one
 
I can only agree with the posts so far...

Enthusia is really underestimated and it sells rather bad all over the world. I really hope that they bring a sequel - some minor changes to the game structure ( rather buy cars ) , some real life tracks AND TUNING... and I mean real tuning not just the level system and Enthusia will be a perfect hit and (hopefully) a TOP seller....
 
Nice post Mr Toad, I wouldn't have saisd it better :)

Enthusia is mostly about timing and car handling.
Not later than yesterday, my wife asks me why are you swearin that much ?
"Never mind honey, I'm just trying to keep that 180SX on the track

Unfortunately, real sims on consoles don't sell well ( RBR was not even released in North and South America )

Contrary to what Bullit73 says, I would like to have at least a view from the hood.
I agree that a full cockpit view consumes a lot of graphic resources but a cockpit view doesn't and helps a lot to estimate the car width.
 
Excellent, thoughtful responses all around. :) Biased Turkey, your wife asking about the swearing really struck a familiar chord. :lol:

I agree with what has been said here. In addition to Enthusia's often quirky or minimalist features outside of the driving, I think Konami did a crummy marketing job on this one. To get out from under the shadow of GT4 and Forza, they either needed to get Enthusia on the shelves far enough ahead of the others to build a fan base, or failing that, done more aggressive and effective advertising.

I also think the unstructured feel of Enthusia Life is disconcerting to players who are more used to a linear path towards "beating the game" in the career mode. I'm not saying that Enthusia's approach is all bad, I'm finding it to be a fresh approach to the old tried and true methods which have gone before. But a clearer road map to chart your career progression would've been a real plus and made the game more accessible to the average gamer, without tossing out the novel "odds" and ranking system.


I agree about the cockpit views also. At least an "over the hood view" would've been great. But at least Enthusia doesn't force me into that wretched "pavement scraper" cam which Forza imposes on you for the Vipers, Corvettes, Mercedes, and NSX's. There is nothing worse than being eye level with the tailpipes of the cars ahead when you're running in the pack and can't see the next corner coming up.
 
Konami has tried SO many ways to demonstrate to the public that Enthusia is most realistic. Remeber the "Miata" video and "Logger"? Remeber they interviewed "Gun-san" to just persuade the public.

They have done hell of a job demonstrating, but the initial attraction isn't there. People would just soon dismiss it as a "GT wannabe", not many people even cared about this game after the describtion of "200 cars, realistic physics, no tunning, weird game structure..."

If Konami is smart, they should ignore the sale records. Person is smart, people are dumb, if Enthusia 2 can get even half of GT4's initial attraction, and offer something that's unique and new, such as bodykits of touge racing (bumper to bumper), or combination of special features (realistic physics AND online play), I would bet on my money on Enthusia 2 beating Forza, or even GT's sales records.

Now let's just pray that Konami is getting smarter, and luckier.
 
NSX-R
Konami has tried SO many ways to demonstrate to the public that Enthusia is most realistic. Remeber the "Miata" video and "Logger"? Remeber they interviewed "Gun-san" to just persuade the public.
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You may be right, but I don't recall nearly as many magazine ads for Enthusia as we have seen for Forza plastered across two pages in every game magazine for the last six months.
 
We should write a thank you email to the Enthusia team at Konami saying thanks for the great work. I think they'd really like to know that there are people out there who "got it".
 
MisterToad
You may be right, but I don't recall nearly as many magazine ads for Enthusia as we have seen for Forza plastered across two pages in every game magazine for the last six months.
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I'm not sure about this, in fact, I'm just guessing. Konami may be out of money, lost interest in the whole idea, or for whatnot reason, their ads everywhere are crap.

Literaly crap, "It's not what you drive, it's they way you drive." I mean, this is very, and I mean VERY attractive to gearheads like us, but totally "blah" to the general public.

There are so many tunner games out there that are utterly useless games, like UG, SRS, Juiced... but hey, they sell well! Why? Tricked out rides are just on the wave, it's the "thing".

Their advertising is... well, done by all medias. They don't even have to spend a dime to popularize the tunner idea. "Monster Garage", "over-hauling", "Unique-whips"... Even though these shows are basicly the same idea, they get good ratings because it's like the new MTV, it's "cool".

Konami didn't even try, and the public didn't even care. If you want my 2 cents, here it is: Enthusia is born into the wrong hands, at the wrong time.

Great game nevertheless, and it's a gem burried by the dumbness of the public.
 
WouldEnthusia have been more successful if it had been released for the Playstation2 and the PC ? ( The same way their very popular soccer sim winning eleven is )
 
I wouldn't think so. So many good sims are on PC, LFS, GTR, Rfactor...

If people want real cars, they will probably get NFS, SRS and things.

Enthusia would just be a blend on the PC with nowhere to go.
 
Thanks for the compliments, guys! I guess I write better when I get worked up a little... :embarrassed:

NSX-R
I wouldn't think so. So many good sims are on PC, LFS, GTR, Rfactor...

If people want real cars, they will probably get NFS, SRS and things.

Enthusia would just be a blend on the PC with nowhere to go.
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Actually, I bet plenty of Live for Speed players would be thrilled to try another very realistic driving game that had not only roadcars, like LFS has, but licensed ones! (Provided, of course, that they wouldn't be afraid of the whole "PS2 port" thing, and that a PC Enthusia would have, or be given via a clever hack/program, online multiplayer...)

The reason why I prefer LFS over games like GTR, Rfactor, etc. is because I prefer roadcars, and the reason why I prefer Enthusia over LFS is because I prefer licensed roadcars.

Tortus
We should write a thank you email to the Enthusia team at Konami saying thanks for the great work. I think they'd really like to know that there are people out there who "got it".
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Actually, I've sent them emails two or three times, asking about the game before its release, making suggestions, and then complimenting them after I bought it and played it! :)

I made sure to throw in lots of praise for adding the E30 M3, and told them to keep it for Enthusia 2... ;)

This is the form that I used: https://www.konami.co.jp/inquiry/cgi-bin/inquiry02.cgi?PAGE_NAME=product
 
Wolfe2x7
The reason why I prefer LFS over games like GTR, Rfactor, etc. is because I prefer roadcars, and the reason why I prefer Enthusia over LFS is because I prefer licensed roadcars.
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That is the percect way to sum up why I like this game so much, too!

Sig-worthy.
 
LFS seems to be a bit more hardcore though. They model camber changes due to suspension movement, tire temperature, fuel. There are 48 sampling points per tire, so that you can flat spot them if you lock them up, or pop them!

The LFS devs are nice enough to show off the level of simulation that makes the game realistic. I'd like to know the same, for Enthusia.
 
I love Enthusia and for me it is better than GT4, but what i wish would stop is the Enthusia V GT4 ****e. Forza V GT4 yeah but not Enthusia V GT4.

Why? They have the same sort of, lots of cars and tracks with "simulation" physics, but the structure of the game is entirely different, GT4, get licenses, buy a car, race in the random races which you chooose as you please they are always there, earn money lalala, Enthusia, pick a car, then start racing, not the same races everyimte, they change, level your car up, increase your rank, actually racing for a reason, unlock each level of races, unlock new cars it just works so well.

Things for Enthusia 2 should be: Somesort of cockpit view, hood, in car something, I think the tuning feature is good but if they do change it to be more along the buy your parts line then the races should have HP limits, more tracks, more races, go beyond, have an almost unlimited catalgue of races of all difficulties and disciplines. And with regards to that "frame" thing, make it so the whole picture on the screen moves maybe soo it actually looks like YOUR moving not just the frame thing. And if the physics are so good, allow us to see more info on the car, be it in replays, test sessions or in-game, fuel use with accurate MPG, tyre temperatures, engine temp, oil levels (realistic not GT4), wind resistance, turbo lag, suspension levels, all displayed with real time info, but in a non distracting way, have it so you can select what you see like it is at the moment just with more info.

:D
 
We really NEED a realistic tunner game!!! Not decals, Not 22 inch rims, but bodykits that actually provide more air intake and downforce!!! Plus online-play of course!

Btw, is drafting in EPR?
 
Hmm, was on the nurburgring reverse earlier in my A8 and im pretty sure i was closing in on the TVR Tamora whilst in his slipstream so i think it is.
 
NSX-R
Cool, gotta check it out!
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Yes EPR has drafting, go to Speediapolis Ring in Time Trail and run some laps on your own and look at your top speed after you finish (blue marker on track after you finish). Then take the same car to the same track in FR and get behind a closely matched car and look at how much faster your top speed is. With some cars it could be a 10-15mph difference.
 
For me, I like all three games but for their own special reasons

EPR = Best physics and handling. Also the fact that I can use a clutch with different pedals and a different shifter. Good music too.

GT4 = The amount cars and its also the best looking (IMO)

Forza = Online racing and personalization of the cars.
 
I finally got this game and played it this past weekend, Im very impressed with it. I need to make more time to play it ;)
 
I like the game, but compared to real cars, I dunno. I can't feel I share the general sentiment here that Enthusia feels more realistic. I love the system which tracks all your offs, bumps, spins and so on. But the DF Pro support isn't nearly as good as GT4's and the car behaviour doesn't have any character.

But that's just my opinion, I guess.
 

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