Erdogan the Dictator.

[Dennisch]

Germany has officially lost its stones and are in the full bend over position to receive Turkey.

Merkel has cleared all obstacles for the prosecution of the comedian who made fun of Erdogan.

More info.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Germany has officially lost its stones and are in the full bend over position to receive Turkey.

Merkel has cleared all obstacles for the prosecution of the comedian who made fun of Erdogan.

More info.

It's things like this that make the rise of extremist movements more understandable and likely.

 

[Liquid]

Not that I necessarily agree with the corresponding law but if you preface something with "What I’m about to read is not allowed. If it were to be read in public, that would be forbidden in Germany" then you're asking for trouble and baiting yourself.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Germany has officially lost its stones and are in the full bend over position to receive Turkey.

Merkel has cleared all obstacles for the prosecution of the comedian who made fun of Erdogan.

More info.

All it says is that they're "considering" it. Unless the meaning of the word has changed somewhat then they're doing exactly the same as we are here - considering it.

Of course, the prima facie case is that he explained that what he was doing was illegal while he was doing it. Whether or not it should be illegal is a different topic altogether but the fact remains that he knew it was and demonstrated so. If being publicly accused of having sex with children was defamatory (which it probably was) then that's a matter in itself.

EDIT: Tree'd far more succintly by @Liquid

EDIT II: Actually, as you say @Dennisch, Merkel is allowing the prosecution as she points out (correctly) that it's for the law to decide. Your link was out of date

Germany will also move to repeal that particular law, she says. Good.

 

[Dennisch]

All it says is that they're "considering" it. Unless the meaning of the word has changed somewhat then they're doing exactly the same as we are here - considering it.

Of course, the prima facie case is that he explained that what he was doing was illegal while he was doing it. Whether or not it should be illegal is a different topic altogether but the fact remains that he knew it was and demonstrated so. If being publicly accused of having sex with children was defamatory (which it probably was) then that's a matter in itself.

EDIT: Tree'd far more succintly by @Liquid

It was made official today, I couldn't find a English source yet,but here's the Dutch one.

 

[TenEightyOne]

It was made official today, I couldn't find a English source yet,but here's the Dutch one.

I edited my post with appropriate comments just as you posted

BBC

 

[Dennisch]

Good to see that this:

An earlier remark by Mrs Merkel that the poem was "deliberately offensive" laid her open to accusations that she was not standing up for free speech because Europe needed Turkey to help solve the migrant crisis.

Has led to this :

Mrs Merkel said the government would seek to repeal Paragraph 103 in the penal code, concerning insults against foreign heads of state.

 

[Dennisch]

It turns out that we Dutchies also have a law that forbids people to insult or ridicule a leader of a befriended nation. But the big difference with the Germans is that in our case the PM will never get involved.
And to prevent that crybaby Erdogan will try to pull his childish stunt here, our political fun buddies will make sure that the law will be removed ASAP. (Dutch site)

And on top of that, local comedian Hans Teeuwen has joined Böhmermann's side by stating that he knows Erdogan from the time that Erdy was still a little boywhore in Istanbul, and he added some details but that maybe not so AUP friendly. *





*copy and translate the fourth paragraph and further.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

An earlier remark by Mrs Merkel that the poem was "deliberately offensive" laid her open to accusations that she was not standing up for free speech because Europe needed Turkey to help solve the migrant crisis.

Well, the poem insinuated that Erdogan watched child pornography and engaged in bestiality. I'm not sure how that could be considered anything other than "deliberately offensive", and if Erdogan was a German citizen, Böhmermann would be facing a civil suit for slander.

 

[Dennisch]

You missed the part where Merkel kinda agreed that Erdogan is overreacting, and she will get the law removed from the books.

 

[squadops]

What was it that Bulgarian guy was saying about blackmail? That is a speech I would encourage anyone to hear if they care to understand what is going on with the crisis.

Or am I on the wrong track again? I'll find it and edit it here.

This.

IMO Turkey is trying to play to many sides against the middle.

Oh, thanks again to @novcze

 

[Dennisch]

Erdogan is pulling Turkey back in time. He is slowly turning a once secular state into a religious one.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

You missed the part where Merkel kinda agreed that Erdogan is overreacting, and she will get the law removed from the books.

No, I didn't miss it. I just didn't think that it applied to the point I was trying to make. Maybe it is an overreaction on Erdogan's part, but when someone claims that you're a paedophile and have sex with animals for the amusement of an audience, an overreaction is really the only reaction.

 

[Dennisch]

It's called satire. And most European politicians agree with that statement.

 

[squadops]

It's only ok when @prisonermonkeys does it here on gtp

 

[Dennisch]

It's only ok when @prisonermonkeys does it here on gtp

Indeed. Especially towards UK related stuff and people.

 

[Rage Racer]

Somebody's being prosecuted for jokes... Stalin-era USSR? No. Present-day Europe...

 

[Dennisch]

Somebody's being prosecuted for jokes... Stalin-era USSR? No. Present-day Europe...

Present day Germany! Europe is baffled by Mürküls behavior.

 

[squadops]

How much of it relates to Brussels? Honest question as I'm just a simple murican

 

[Dennisch]

How much of it relates to Brussels? Honest question as I'm just a simple murican

It doesn't.

Chairman of the EC, Juncker is also baffled by the whole situation. I can't find an English source but if you google Juncker Böhmermann result surely will pop up.

 

[Ibonibo]

A few things first:

-The german goverment decided only that it would leave the question whether this was a satire or insult to a court. So segression of powers in place.

-The law in question dates back to the "Kaiser" Reich. It's rarely called for so nobody cared to remove it.

-Erdowahn has filed a second lawsuit. One is over the "monarch" rule, the other a normal civil one.

But:
Under german law, under EU law, every citizen is to be considered equal in front of the law! Thus makes this hole monarch insult law an absolute joke.

My opinion, haveing watched the actual broadcast when it aired. It was hillarious. The part about the illegality was part of the "act". They even had a lawyer by standing confirming it. But it was all part of the sartire.

Some people would say. The greatest act of this show was today when Merkel had it's primetime on Böhmermanns show.

German goverment should have said no. The more left goverment party voted no. It was equal and Merkel vote kicked it to a yes.
No would still have meant the civil lawsuit would happen.

But Merkel already made a comment agreeing with Erdowahn (wahn= German for maniac) before. Even before when this aired.



Böhmermanns was just a reply to that video.

And he made a very clever play of it. Showing the true colors in simple ways to the people. Todays decision was just he icing on the cake...

Böhmermann is known for stirring poo up in the air:



Varovakis never showed the finger. It was a cgi, editing trick. And it stirred quite some controvery up.


I love it. This is genius. But i bet he never would have dreamt for this

 

[prisonermonkeys]

It's called satire.

Satire is a genre of literature, and sometimes graphic and performing arts, in which vices, follies, abuses, and shortcomings are held up to ridicule, ideally with the intent of shaming individuals, corporations, government or society itself, into improvement. Although satire is usually meant to be humorous, its greater purpose is often constructive social criticism, using wit to draw attention to both particular and wider issues in society.

Now, if it was a sketch about Erdogan waging war against social media whilst ignoring the obvious militants under his nose, I could understand it being satire. But please explain to me how insinuating that someone is a paedophile or practices bestiality points out "vices, follies, abuses or shortcomimgs". These are pretty serious accusations of criminal activity.

 

[Ibonibo]

Here is the video:



As one can here without understanding it was a poem on whatever rythm (a-b-b-a) in a sketch in a comedy show.

It was meant to be exactly this way to be borderline between satire and defamation. To exactly provoke this reaction from Erdogan and from Germany.

The Beastiality for exemple was a simple curse word that english speaking g.i used on indigen population of the east all the time.

The child porn after bunga bunga Italia doesn't seem so far fetched.

Seriously, Family Guy for exemple goes much futher than this, much further. And this runs on a channel so unpopular that maybe 2% actually watch it.

 

[Dennisch]

But please explain to me

I am not going even going to try it. You see a Muslim being insulted and you're back on that horse of yours.

Apparently us Europeans have a different mindset of what is funny and what not.

And again, as Merkel already pretty much agreed that this whole ordeal shouldn't have happened, but it did because of a law thought up by an equally easily offended emperor.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

You see a Muslim being insulted and you're back on that horse of yours.

No, I see someone who a comedian insinuated was engaged in some pretty heinous crimes. Erdogan has his shortcomings - more than most - but I don't see what gives Böhmermann the right to make these insinuations in the first place, much less be treated as the victim when someone protests.

 

[Dennisch]

No, I see someone who a comedian insinuated was engaged in some pretty heinous crimes. Erdogan has his shortcomings - more than most - but I don't see what gives Böhmermann the right to make these insinuations in the first place, much less be treated as the victim when someone protests.

Get that stick out of your ass and learn to see the funny side for once.

Freedom of speech weighs heavier than the feelings of some butthurt autocratic worthless piece of crap.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Get that stick out of your ass and learn to see the funny side for once.

The funny side of child pornography, you mean?

Freedom of speech weighs heavier than the feelings of some butthurt autocratic worthless piece of crap.

Freedom of speech isn't freedom to commit libel. It seems that everybody wants freedom of speech, but nobody wants to be held responsible for what they say.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Freedom of speech weighs heavier than the feelings of some butthurt autocratic worthless piece of crap.

That's why the Germans are repealing this law, isn't it? The component where mocking a head of state is forbidden is clearly outdated and not fit for purpose.

Does losing that law give people carte blanche to have "free speech"? Of course not, incitement has always been an exception to free speech. The comedian might have been making a point and he may feel that the government's review of the law has won part of the battle. Outside that, however unpopular a character Erdogan might be, the comedian's comments were still pretty foul and hardly acceptable.

 

[Dennisch]

The funny side of child pornography, you mean?

...

Freedom of speech isn't freedom to commit libel.

You and Erdogan are the only ones who see it that way. The rest of Europe sees the video as satire. And for the 3rd time. Even Merkel now sees this as an overreaction,and that the law is outdated and against freedom of speech.

But it's good to see that you and Erdogan share the same kind of non-humor. Great company to be in.

Outside that, however unpopular a character Erdogan might be, the comedian's comments were still pretty foul and hardly acceptable.

That's a matter of taste, isn't it? The studio was laughing their asses off, and I'm pretty sure more people who saw the show did.

If it was outside the boundaries of freedom of speech, why are so many politicians more upset about the lawsuit and not about what was said?

 

[prisonermonkeys]

But it's good to see that you and Erdogan share the same kind of non-humor.

I'm sure that there are things out there that you don't find funny, but I do. I find Böhmermann's humour to be crude, tasteless, and lacking in any kind of nuance. He's no different to Seth MacFarlane or Tom Green. But apparently I'm the bad guy here because I didn't laugh at something somebody else declared to be funny.