F1 Esports Launches "Women’s Wildcard" Qualifier for Pro Exhibition

Scaff

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Damon hill is still physically fit, why do you think he's still not competing in F1?
Because he chose to retire? Rosberg retired form racing at 31, does that mean he was no longer capable at that point?

Do you honestly think that drivers all retire young, Button is still racing at 41, Dominique Bastien raced in last year LeMans at 74.

Besides we are talking about esports and last year Johnny Herbert raced in that at 56.
 
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1,710
The absence of something does not necessarily point to a systemic problem. If there are no women in F1 eSports, that doesn't automatically mean that women are being discriminated against.
 

Scaff

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The absence of something does not necessarily point to a systemic problem. If there are no women in F1 eSports, that doesn't automatically mean that women are being discriminated against.
You don't believe that esports and gaming in general has a history (and one that has not been fully resolved) around hostility to women?

You actually believe that!

Gaming and on-line gaming in particular has a long history of racism, homophobia, misogyny and transphobia. To even suggest that this isn't a problem is, to be blunt, blind to reality.

"Critics have stated that there is an increasing pervasiveness of the sexual harassment of women in the video game community. A study conducted by Kate O'Halloran in 2017 found that women receive an almost amplified amount of harassment in the setting of online video games than they do in real life, whereas preferential treatment is given to men by other men. The difference in the treatment of women further diminishes the desire of women to participate in video games, or, as O'Halloran found, to completely conceal their gender identity and allow other players to assume their gender. Liliana Braumberger, a participant in O'Halloran's study, states that this stems from the fact that the men who engage in this form of sexual harassment have the invisibility and anonymity that comes with participating in an online server, and that men have a certain sense of entitlement that leads to the invisibility of women. She feels that this discrimination and erasure potentially have the same effects on other people who do not identify as men, not necessarily just women.[30]"

Let me ask, have you even had anyone masturbate at you while playing on-line? Moaning your username when they climax over voice chat? As the author of that article has!

https://www.theguardian.com/culture...esort-for-female-gamers-escaping-online-abuse

Women being discriminated against in gaming and esport (and that includes sim-racing)? The evidence detailing it is legion!
 
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4,123
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PJTierney
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You are completely missing my point, we are talking about male and female being equal in esports, an over 50s event would not discriminate on the sex of a person.
Nobody is denying that on a physcial demand level there's practically no difference between male and female competitors.

The issue that the series is attempting to solve is a social one, so let's rewind back with a question: why are so few women competing in sim racing esports?



Also, no need to send Louise Cook videos to me to prove your point, I already know who she is (hence the "small handful of people" I referred to in my comment ;)).
 
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Storm--Trooper-
Because he chose to retire? Rosberg retired form racing at 31, does that mean he was no longer capable at that point?

Do you honestly think that drivers all retire young, Button is still racing at 41, Dominique Bastien raced in last year LeMans at 74.

Besides we are talking about esports and last year Johnny Herbert raced in that at 56.
And Johnny was terrible if i recall bless him.
Yes anyone can race at any age that's not my point, but to be competitive in certain events is a different matter. I don't think many over 50s would be competitive in F1 or the top esports events that is what I meant. Anyway I don't want this to turn into a slanging match as I have no doubt you have best intentions and there are much more things wrong in the world at the moment. Thats me out of this now. Have a good day everyone.
 
1,710
I don't see racism, homophobia or any other form of discrimination in gaming, Scaff. Perhaps I'm just not looking in the right places. I tend to avoid online gaming if I'm being perfectly honest due to the proliferation of morons in general.

I just know when I was growing up, I played games regularly with my mates and none of us saw any type of obvious discrimination against women.
 
349
Canada
Canada
I don't see racism, homophobia or any other form of discrimination in gaming, Scaff. Perhaps I'm just not looking in the right places. I tend to avoid online gaming if I'm being perfectly honest due to the proliferation of morons in general.

I just know when I was growing up, I played games regularly with my mates and none of us saw any type of obvious discrimination against women.
Are you saying that these things don't happen, or you haven't encountered them?
 

Scaff

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I don't see racism, homophobia or any other form of discrimination in gaming, Scaff. Perhaps I'm just not looking in the right places. I tend to avoid online gaming if I'm being perfectly honest due to the proliferation of morons in general.

I just know when I was growing up, I played games regularly with my mates and none of us saw any type of obvious discrimination against women.
Did you not read the article, and did you miss Gamergate, which saw female devs and games reporters doxed, threatened with death and rape, to the degree they had to leave their homes?

That you are not personally aware of it doesn't change the fact that it very, very much is real.

Take a read of this (and the GamerGate link), and follow the links and read the sources, please, then let me know if you honestly think the industry doesn't have a problem.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexism_and_video_games
 
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1,710
'm sure men can cite violence upon violence within their own gender vis-a-vis gaming. The terms 'gay' and 'queer' are quite often used as simply derogatory remarks to refer to someone who they find contemptible or as a form of jocular ridicule among friends.
Likewise, if someone calls another person the a word, that does not immediately translate to them being homophobic. It's a word which is part of the modern lexicon, just like the f word for better or worse.

What should be done about women gamers who make violent or derogatory remarks about other women or men? Words do not seemlessly translate to actions.

The world is not an ideal place nor will it ever be. But trying to sanction speech and thought is the first step towards dictatorship, whether it be in the form of Bolshevism or Nazism. Regrettably, this is happening more and more from both political divides.
 

Scaff

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'm sure men can cite violence upon violence within their own gender vis-a-vis gaming. The terms 'gay' and 'queer' are quite often used as simply derogatory remarks to refer to someone who they find contemptible or as a form of jocular ridicule among friends.
Likewise, if someone calls another person the a word, that does not immediately translate to them being homophobic. It's a word which is part of the modern lexicon, just like the f word for better or worse.

What should be done about women gamers who make violent or derogatory remarks about other women or men? Words do not seemlessly translate to actions.

The world is not an ideal place nor will it ever be. But trying to sanction speech and thought is the first step towards dictatorship, whether it be in the form of Bolshevism or Nazism. Regrettably, this is happening more and more from both political divides.
Did you actually bother to read any of that, it certainly doesn't seem so, but you have nailed your colours firmly to the mast.

Oh and no one is talking about censoring speech or even thought, but rather ensuring that actions have consequences, your post certainly comes across as one from those individuals who doesn't believe that consequences should exist. Oh and you've only ever (had freedom of speech in regard to the government, and as such platform holders for gaming are perfectly free to say what can and can't be said on the platforms they own.
 
1,710
Certainly did read it hence the whole thing about the derogatory remarks. If you personally don't agree with my views, that's fine. Glad that I've "nailed my colours firmly to the mast" though for all to see. Wouldn't want there to be any doubt or misunderstanding :cheers:

I'm just curious what should be done about women making violent or derogatory remarks about other women and men? Or just let sleeping dogs lie?
 
1,710
Are you saying that these things don't happen, or you haven't encountered them?

I haven't encountered them personally and I'm not saying they don't happen. However, if a racist or homophobic remark is made as can be argued in this video, does that mean that a separate event should be created for black people? A women's F1 eSports event was created due to alleged sexism and discrimination against women in a male-dominated sport, right? Should that then apply to all groups of people who feel aggrieved?
 
349
Canada
Canada
I haven't encountered them personally and I'm not saying they don't happen. However, if a racist or homophobic remark is made as can be argued in this video, does that mean that a separate event should be created for black people? A women's F1 eSports event was created due to alleged sexism and discrimination against women in a male-dominated sport, right? Should that then apply to all groups of people who feel aggrieved?
How does a racist remark turn in to "do they need their own event?". There's plenty of black sin racers out there. One of the most decorated drivers in F1 is also half black. But that doesn't take away the fact that racism is still a very large issue in the racing community. Discrimination isn't an issue that you can just throw a blanket over. Different groups have different issues that require different solutions.
 
39,077
I don't really see the point, but whatever. It may accomplish what they want, so more power to them.



What's much more amusing, and why I actually read these threads whenever ones like these are annnounced since I don't really care about the topic outside of fighting games, is the people who come out of the woodwork to defend the holy sanctity of E-Sports from what they act like are gender quotas or something; as if the plan is to grab some random housewife straight out of her General Hospital reruns and steal a spot from a much more qualified MAN who (presumably) deserves it more.
 
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179
Germany
Munich
Hitokiri-666
Do you have a source on everyone liking grid girls? I certainly didn't. It was completely unnecessary.
Take this one as one example. Google, they are many more!
https://www.businessinsider.com/f1-...are-fighting-back-on-twitter-2018-2?r=DE&IR=T

Viewers like liked them, the driver liked them, the gridgirls themself liked their job. They are models who like cars and everything souround this. And the lost their jobs, just because of stupid feminist, who told them how to feel, even if they felt different about this.


And yet there are still far fewer female racing drivers in both real racing and e-sports. Why do you think that is?
Well, if you have read my comment, your know that I assume, that just to less are interested in racing. It is NOT the case, that no woman before become a race driver. You might have heard of the, unfortunately recent passed away, Sabine Schmitz. Or about the french lady Michéle Mouton who was fighting against the legendary Walter Röhrl in the Rallye championship. Or, or or.... they are less, yes, but they exist. It depends how much you want it (and some luck and money, of course)


Or maybe it's because there are still no male events in the Olympics and men have only been able to compete in mixed groups in the World Aquatics Championships since 2015?
Well this proves what?? The Olymipic comitee is (as I know) the one who decide, which sport and discipline is becoming an Olympic event. Chess, motorsport in total and tournament dancing are still not on the Olympic games. So what? Thats neither a pro nor a contra argument, to my comment. Again, people decide which sport they want to attent and practise or not. Sorry for my bumpy English, but I am not a native speaker.
 

Moglet

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Moglet85
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Take this one as one example. Google, they are many more!
https://www.businessinsider.com/f1-...are-fighting-back-on-twitter-2018-2?r=DE&IR=T

Viewers like liked them, the driver liked them, the gridgirls themself liked their job. They are models who like cars and everything souround this. And the lost their jobs, just because of stupid feminist, who told them how to feel, even if they felt different about this.

2 Tweets and a Facebook comment are not "everyone". I've seen some other feedback on this but they're mostly from middle aged men who just wanted to see sexy women parading themselves around for their pleasure. Regardless of whether the models themselves were fine with being used for eye candy it encouraged the idea that women are just there to be looked at as sex objects and nothing else. It's not just female feminists (and I don't know why you would call someone fighting for equality "stupid") who wanted them gone either, a lot of my male friends felt they were outdated and really didn't help make the sport appeal to a wider audience.

If you were a young girl wanting to get into motorsports and the only female representation you had in the highest level of the sport (F1) was a woman who went out just to look sexy for (mostly) men, how would that make you feel?

Well, if you have read my comment, your know that I assume, that just to less are interested in racing. It is NOT the case, that no woman before become a race driver. You might have heard of the, unfortunately recent passed away, Sabine Schmitz. Or about the french lady Michéle Mouton who was fighting against the legendary Walter Röhrl in the Rallye championship. Or, or or.... they are less, yes, but they exist. It depends how much you want it (and some luck and money, of course)

"less are interested in racing" is exactly the point. There are very few female role models in motorsports and this event is trying to change that so that they can attempt to re-balance things.

Well this proves what?? The Olymipic comitee is (as I know) the one who decide, which sport and discipline is becoming an Olympic event. Chess, motorsport in total and tournament dancing are still not on the Olympic games. So what? Thats neither a pro nor a contra argument, to my comment. Again, people decide which sport they want to attent and practise or not. Sorry for my bumpy English, but I am not a native speaker.

You used synchronised swimming as an example of how sometimes men are not interesting in competing in sports just like women aren't interested in competing in motorsports. The fact that mens synchronised swimming teams aren't allowed in the Olympics means that's not a fair comparison; of course fewer men are going to be interested when they're not allowed to compete at the highest level. Which I think is a whole other issue that should be addressed but I'm not going to go into that here.
 
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