Food Ethics (Poll)

  • Thread starter Danoff
  • 369 comments
  • 25,414 views

Why do you refuse to eat certain foods?

  • I'm against animal torture (eg: foie gras)

    Votes: 55 30.9%
  • I'm against animal killing (vegetarian)

    Votes: 8 4.5%
  • I'm against animal labor (vegan)

    Votes: 6 3.4%
  • I'm trying to limit my greenhouse gas footprint

    Votes: 17 9.6%
  • I refuse to eat genetically modified foods

    Votes: 15 8.4%
  • I refuse to eat meat that has been treated with hormones treatment

    Votes: 21 11.8%
  • I'm refuse to eat meat that has been treated with prophylactic antibiotics

    Votes: 14 7.9%
  • I eat "free range"

    Votes: 31 17.4%
  • I eat "organic"

    Votes: 26 14.6%
  • I won't eat smart animals

    Votes: 10 5.6%
  • I won't eat endangered animals

    Votes: 57 32.0%
  • I won't eat cute animals

    Votes: 14 7.9%
  • I'll eat whatever is tasty.

    Votes: 103 57.9%
  • Danoff is an uninformed looser who doesn't know about my particular concerns (this is "other")

    Votes: 23 12.9%
  • Only "natural" ingredients.

    Votes: 14 7.9%
  • I'm watching my figure

    Votes: 33 18.5%
  • I won't eat foods my religion bans

    Votes: 8 4.5%

  • Total voters
    178
I thought we were talking about ethics and minimizing harm. The goals are shifting here. It is more tenuous than fertilizer.
If you don't want to shift the goal posts then don't bring up a case where the complaint was originally about how it's advertised.

But in the meantime, Williams has kindly asked for a pretty simple solution: that in future, Burger King plainly discloses that the Impossible Whopper is cooked on the same grill as its other meat when advertising the burger.

According to this article https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/04/06/burger-king-whopper-class-action-florida/ it's not unreasonable to suggest he's just another guy riding that wave of potentially frivolous lawsuits, and that is clearly not limited to vegans.
 
If you don't want to shift the goal posts then don't bring up a case where the complaint was originally about how it's advertised.

But in the meantime, Williams has kindly asked for a pretty simple solution: that in future, Burger King plainly discloses that the Impossible Whopper is cooked on the same grill as its other meat when advertising the burger.

According to this article https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/04/06/burger-king-whopper-class-action-florida/ it's not unreasonable to suggest he's just another guy riding that wave of potentially frivolous lawsuits, and that is clearly not limited to vegans.
Your whole point was about people hitting vegans with gotchas because their plants are tangentially tied to meat. When I post an example of a vegan caring enough to sue over plant-based food being SUPER tangentially tied to meat, it's goalpost shifting? It's not even harming an animal, the tangential link is the ONLY thing driving this. But it's not ok to "gotcha" vegans? Some of them are like this.
 
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Before, or after?...

Screenshot_20220829-101351_Facebook.jpg
 
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"You don't always have to eat meat" is ABSOLUTELY correct.

But meatballs is one of the times that you probably should.
 
Based on how their other stuff tastes, I bet impossible does a decent job. These are impossible meatballs.

vegan-meatballs-1.jpg

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I know this is a convenience product, but I think I'd be inclined to make "meatballs" using their ground product so that I can flavor it as I desire.

This is probably the best sort of application for their product because it doesn't have to stand up on its own.
 
I know this is a convenience product, but I think I'd be inclined to make "meatballs" using their ground product so that I can flavor it as I desire.

This is probably the best sort of application for their product because it doesn't have to stand up on its own.
The first picture is made that way. The second picture is just to prove that impossible sells it straight. I said "impossible meatballs" and then posted a picture that is technically impossible ground beef. So I followed up to prove that "impossible meatballs" are a thing.
 
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Let's explore this topic

  • I'm against animal torture (eg: foie gras)
    Some consider keeping animals locked up as torture. I'm against animal cruelty, but I have eaten goose liver, and still do occasionally, My great grandparents actually had goose and used to employ force feeding.
  • I'm against animal killing (vegetarian)
    I'm not against killing for food, but I'm against hunting and fishing for sport. Those are entirely unnecessary activities. Even if you throw back the fish the hook penetrates the mouth of the fish. I think that is animal cruelty if you are not fishing to eat.
  • I'm against animal labor (vegan)
    I find the whole idea of veganism contemptible. Being against animal labor, but not against human labor? Seriously, I think many vegans have a really screwed up moral compass.
  • I'm trying to limit my greenhouse gas footprint
    There are many ways to limit your footprint within a first world lifestyle, and not eating meat is not at the top of that list. Unless you already did everything above it to limit your footprint, in which case I salute you for your effort. Unfortuanately in my perception most vegetarians are not like that. They are doing one thing as a token gesture, while being extremely wasteful in other areas.
  • I refuse to eat genetically modified foods
    I'm not against GMOs on principle, but I think we are only scratching the surface of gene manipulation, like doing heart surgery with a hatchet. Thus I think GMOs are extremely dangerous if some unforeseen modification gets out into the wild it could cause an ecological disaster. That's why I think GMOs should be a no-no for now.
  • I refuse to eat meat that has been treated with hormones treatment
    If the hormones are still detectable in the product that's a problem. But it is OK if enough time was left for the hormones to clear out before slaughtering the animal, based on my limited understanding of the subject
  • I'm refuse to eat meat that has been treated with prophylactic antibiotics
    Resistance to antibiotics is a very serious issue in my opinion, probably much more serious than hormone treatment, but it gets very little attention. Thankfully, in the EU where I live these are banned now.
  • I eat "free range"
    I try to whenever it is an option, but this is not a rule carved into stone.
  • I eat "organic"
    I think organic is a buzzword, that has very little meaning on a food product, with no clear rules on what can be labelled organic.
  • I won't eat smart animals
    I'm yet to meet a smart animal
  • I won't eat endangered animals
    Definitely not, not as if it was on the menu
  • I won't eat cute animals
    I'll eat a rabbit, when I was a kid we used to keep rabbits
  • I'll eat whatever is tasty.
    If there is a healthy and unhealthy option and both are tasty I'll go for the healthy one, but not everything has a healthy alternative. Some things I can go without, but some things I refuse to give up even if they are "bad for ya" Although the medical consensus on whether something is healthy or not has flip flopped in quite a few cases.
  • Danoff is an uninformed looser who doesn't know about my particular concerns (this is "other")
    Allergies, I'm allergic to malt and corn-syrup, so I try to avoid them within reason.
  • Only "natural" ingredients.
    Wouldn't it be cool if we could eat supernatural stuff? I'd like to try some health and mana potions.
  • I'm watching my figure
    I'm watching it go to waste, it's ridiculous that you stop training for a few months and poof years of work gone.
  • I won't eat foods my religion bans
    More like I'll eat certain things when it is tradition. But only because I like them, I'd not follow traditions that demand something I dislike.
 
impossible
I guess I have to concede that Impossible has probably won the war since the brand seems to have become interchangeable with alternative meat, but am the only one that prefers Beyond? Impossible just has this weird aftertaste. Granted I haven't tried either in a while and I know they were changing their products a bit.
 
I guess I have to concede that Impossible has probably won the war since the brand seems to have become interchangeable with alternative meat, but am the only one that prefers Beyond? Impossible just has this weird aftertaste. Granted I haven't tried either in a while and I know they were changing their products a bit.
I haven't gotten any kind of weird aftertaste with the Impossible. The beforesmell of the [uncooked] Beyond is a bit too much for me. Both are fair if you don't cook the dickens out of them, but I prefer the Impossible (even looking past the smell issues), and with either you really need extra stuff to get even close to being fooled into believing it's beef.
 
I haven't dealt with the smell, I've only tried either in a restaurant setting, so I have no experience with the unprepared product. Good to know that this is a potential issue if I do try to cook with them.

I agree on needing to dress them up to compete with the real thing, but I can settle for the taste not quite being right as long as it's generally pleasant to eat.
 
I haven't gotten any kind of weird aftertaste with the Impossible. The beforesmell of the [uncooked] Beyond is a bit too much for me. Both are fair if you don't cook the dickens out of them, but I prefer the Impossible (even looking past the smell issues), and with either you really need extra stuff to get even close to being fooled into believing it's beef.
Gotta keep that dickens in there.
 
TB

m76
I was just quoting the poll answers verbatim.
I made fun of it first!

 
Let's get some science underfeet, okay?

m76
  • I'm trying to limit my greenhouse gas footprint
    There are many ways to limit your footprint within a first world lifestyle, and not eating meat is not at the top of that list. Unless you already did everything above it to limit your footprint, in which case I salute you for your effort. Unfortuanately in my perception most vegetarians are not like that. They are doing one thing as a token gesture, while being extremely wasteful in other areas.
It seems plausible that vegetarians who, say, consume dairy, are more varied in their handling of the climate crisis than vegetarians that avoid animal products in their diet.
I thought that "not eating meat is not at the top" is a convenient wording, and that saying "not eating animal products" would be one of the top items.

Turns out I was wrong, it's #1. It's mostly the methane.
Replacing animal agriculture and shifting to a plant-based diet could drastically curb greenhouse gas emissions
I used a web search to find the article, as: greenhouse "animal agriculture"
 
Let's get some science underfeet, okay?


It seems plausible that vegetarians who, say, consume dairy, are more varied in their handling of the climate crisis than vegetarians that avoid animal products in their diet.
I thought that "not eating meat is not at the top" is a convenient wording, and that saying "not eating animal products" would be one of the top items.

Turns out I was wrong, it's #1. It's mostly the methane.
Replacing animal agriculture and shifting to a plant-based diet could drastically curb greenhouse gas emissions
I used a web search to find the article, as: greenhouse "animal agriculture"
I could not find a specific breakdown on the composition of a household's carbon footprint. So I'm just assuming that air travel, personal transportation, heating, air conditioning, recycling habits have a bigger impact than eating meat. I barely eat any beef to begin with, which is the biggest contributor.
 
If this is true then perhaps I'd better get down to McDonald's and try a McPlant burger or preferably literally any other outlet in the UK which sells Beyond before they go under.
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I bought a package of Beyond burgers a while back out of curiosity. The uncooked burgers smelled like canned dog food and the finished product didn't taste like a beef burger at all, more like a weird beet sandwich.

Someday I might try an Impossible burger, but for now I'll stick with real meat.
 
Tofurky is a food that may be best known as, say, the meat-free entrée your cousin's vegan boyfriend insists on eating at the Thanksgiving table, potentially perturbing your cousin's carnivorous dad—the one who killed, gutted, scalded, plucked, brined, seasoned, stuffed, and roasted the actual turkey on the table.

One thing Tofurky and similar meat alternatives are not known for? Kicking ass. But that may be changing.

Last month, a federal court ruled an Arkansas law that banned makers of meat alternatives such as Tofurky from using commonly understood words to describe their products was unconstitutional.

"The law prohibited the labeling of any food product as 'meat' unless that food product was derived from livestock, and it banned such terms as 'veggie sausage' and 'veggie burger' from food labeling in Arkansas," the Northwest Arkansas Democrat-Gazette reported in the wake of the court's ruling. The same court had in 2019 granted Tofurky an injunction preventing the state from enforcing the law shortly after it took effect and the suit was filed.

The Arkansas law, U.S. District Court Judge Kristine Baker explained in her ruling, unconstitutionally barred Tofurky from "convey[ing] meaningful, helpful information to consumers about the products they are purchasing, and Tofurky's repeated indications that the food products contained in these packages contain no animal-based meat dispel consumer confusion."

The Arkansas suit is one of several filed by Tofurky and others—including other vegan-food producers and the American Civil Liberties Union, Good Food Institute, Animal Legal Defense Fund, Plant-Based Foods Association, and Institute for Justice—against several states that have adopted laws similar to that in Arkansas.

Last year, another lawsuit—this one filed by Upton's Naturals—forced Mississippi's agriculture department, which adopted rules similar to those in Arkansas at the behest of the state's powerful beef lobby, to backtrack and amend those rules.

"Under the new regulation, which officially took effect today, plant-based foods will not be considered to be labeled as a 'meat' or 'meat food product' if their label also describes the food as: 'meat-free,' 'meatless,' 'plant-based,' 'vegetarian,' 'vegan' or uses any other comparable terms," the Plant-Based Foods Association, which was also a plaintiff in the case, reported last year.

Also last year, Tofurky challenged a similar Oklahoma law. And earlier this year, a federal judge in Louisiana overturned that state's don't-say-meat-meat-alternative ban.

Why the sudden clamor to adopt rules against using some words to describe meat alternatives? Supporters of such laws typically claim they want to help consumers avoid confusion. But that argument's all hat and no cattle. Such laws sow confusion rather than mitigating it. Research and common sense suggest consumers aren't confused by terms such as "veggie burger" or the like. Worse, linguistic bans generally prohibit accurate and honest labeling even if—as the federal court in Arkansas found was the case with Tofurky's labeling—"the product [in question] also states on the label that it's 100% vegan, plant-based or meatless," Bloomberg News reported in 2019.

Ultimately, the basis of such laws can be tied to simple and pure protectionism. Indeed, the protectionist urge is strong, historically, among the powerful producers of animal products—including meat and dairy. For example, as I've discussed in my book Biting the Hands that Feed Us: How Fewer, Smarter Laws Would Make Our Food System More Sustainable and elsewhere, rent-seeking dairy interests have, over generations, leaned on lawmakers to force competitors to change the name and even the appearance of their foods. In Wisconsin, the state long forced makers of margarine—who compete with the dairy state's butter makers—to color their products pink. In New York, the state forced makers of non-dairy creamers to label those foods as "melloream"—whatever the hell that is.

Notably, though, this type of protectionism isn't wholly limited to meat-industry-led attacks on vegan competitors. As I explained in a 2019 column, Arkansas has sought to protect its dominant rice industry against competition from makers of riced cauliflower (a law I characterized at the time as "veg-on-veg crime").

The single most important fact to remember about these laws is that they seek to undermine the First Amendment to prop up sales for certain elements of the food industry. That's as unconstitutional as it is unwise. Such laws don't' serve the interests of consumers. After all, neither your hypothetical cousin's boyfriend nor your uncle was confused in the least by the differences between Tofurky and turkey. Indeed, it was those differences that drew them to choose those respective favored foods in the first place.
 
I'll eat almost anything, but for some years, I've refused to eat octopus. I think it tasted great when I had it, and I'm not really gonna shame anyone for having it, but I just can't bring myself to eat it myself these days. Like, squid and calamari is fine - just not octopus.
 
I'll eat almost anything, but for some years, I've refused to eat octopus. I think it tasted great when I had it, and I'm not really gonna shame anyone for having it, but I just can't bring myself to eat it myself these days. Like, squid and calamari is fine - just not octopus.
Usually I see pig ranked above octopus in terms of intelligence. It's far easier to avoid octopus of course, pig is everywhere it seems.
 
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