Ford... The Attention Whore.

[FAOLIU05]

2005... as the imports dominated the American auto market, domestic companies began to become really desperate for a whole new attraction for the American consumer. But none more flamboyant than Ford with they're big and bad S-197 Mustang. With a constant drive for attention, and with an ever expanding options list, the S-197 Mustang continued to become one of America's best selling cars at the time. Hey, that's fine. Nothing wrong with a little marketing to get the best of the business.

However, I thought it would never happen, me being a Mustang fan, I feel rather... the Mustang is being exhausted, played out. And I can't help to feel that's all in their stradegy to keep the people's interest. But this new tactic is becoming a real turn off for me, and me being the car enthusiast I am that's incredible.

Firstly Ford is now selling what they call a "Shelby GT500." Funny how they go from using simple "Cobras" for nearly a decade, to tacking on the name "GT500" and bumping the $30,000 price tag to $40,000+ (if you're lucky). Since when did Ford need to reintroduce the GT500? Or to (seemingly) reintroduce the Carrol Shelby line after nearly a 40 year hiatus? Since the introduction of the new Shelby Cobra, three new verions of it are already available! A 40th Annivs. model, a Road & Track model and even an "Eleanor" (yes you guessed it, from "Gone in 60 Seconds") model.

Why? Why not just incoperate the 40th Annivs. model and R&T model into simply, the (what was supposed to be exclusive ) regular Cobra model?

Ford is also introducing the "Shelby" GT, merely a sellable copy of the Hertz GT-H. But I question... why not make Shelby packages solely for the Mustang GT? seeing as how the Shelby GT isn't any more than a regular GT with a tiny boost in power... why make a big hoopla over it's "exlusiveness?"

On top of these... 4 different types of Mustang (on top of the packages available for the GT and V6), Ford continues to dream up more concepts and models.

Recently, this... FR500-GT Mustang was introduced, as was a Mustang Ford dubbed "Project." Not to mention the Mustang GT-R a year ago, and some type of line for Roush Mustangs. And on top of all this, all these different types of Mustangs, as if they couldn't get enough attention, Ford even goes the extra step and brings Chip Foose - another Mustang tuner - into the mix, where he'll be designing even more exlusive Mustangs.

On top of all that, Ford is even bringing an old friend back into production, the Mustang BOSS 302, after very much the same vacation as the Shelby Mustangs. Oh yeah, have I mentioned the Ford Bullit Mustang due in 2008? lmao...

And the reason I call it "attention whoring" is because, interestingly enough, Ford has never had a reason come hell or high water, to introduce so many different models of Mustang all at once! It seems Ford is really pulling out all the stops to get everyone's undivided attention to up their sales. Though, it's a tactic used by a lot of companies, none have done so more publicly, more flamboyantly than Ford - thus why I'm becoming a little agitated over it.

I'm sitting here wondering... where was all this enthusiasm over the Mustang in the 80's/90's? What happened to the regular Cobra at $30,000 that lasted so many generations? Why suddenly bring back the BOSS 302? Why bring back the GT500?

Anyone else see this? Good thing? Bad thing?

 

[vectradriver]

I'm not surprised by this. Ford seem to be a company that hasn't really got a clue how to work in the modern market. Do they not realise that all these models at once will marginalise sales and no doubt harm the residuals through familiarity. And why call it the 500 and only give it 475bhp? That's just plain laziness.

I imagine they've taken a steady glance at what BMW has done with the Mini and thought "Oh we can do that, the Mustang is just as big an icon, lets churn out loads of models for minimum outlay".

Trouble is, all this at once really doesn't do the car any favours.

 

[TopHat]

My dad will buy a BOSS 302. He bought me a model BOSS. In stead of a 302 , why not put out the BOSS 429? (HD Truck motor for the win!)

 

[Ev0 4 drifter]

I see what you mean, now the name 'Mustang' doesn't mean spit, Ford stretched the Mustang out too long, I believe they had a crappy v6 with something like 130 horsepower. I say give up the Mustang, let it die in dignity, it's come to the point where they are just trying to get more money by making knock-offs of icons (Eleanor and the Bullit 'stang)

 

[dubbed]

Firstly Ford is now selling what they call a "Shelby GT500." Funny how they go from using simple "Cobras" for nearly a decade, to tacking on the name "GT500" and bumping the $30,000 price tag to $40,000+ (if you're lucky). Since when did Ford need to reintroduce the GT500? Or to (seemingly) reintroduce the Carrol Shelby line after nearly a 40 year hiatus? Since the introduction of the new Shelby Cobra, three new verions of it are already available! A 40th Annivs. model, a Road & Track model and even an "Eleanor" (yes you guessed it, from "Gone in 60 Seconds") model.

My guess is that you have no idea of the history with Carol Shelby. In the 80's Ford and Shelby parted ways and Shelby came to shift all his talents to Dodge. This lasted until the mid 90's and Carroll Shelby International Inc. was deep in red ink for it. Shelby had almost nothing, the Series 1 (powered by a northstar V8) was a disaster, it was underpowered and overpriced. In the meantime while Shelby was away Ford had a major void in their mustang's performance portfolio. It was also the 80's and horsepower was hiding under a rock somewhere waiting for someone to find it.

Ford in the mean time got together some of best engineers and put together SVO (special vehicle operations) to head their racing operations as well as producing a "hi-po" mustang, the SVO Mustang. The car didn't do so well and SVO was later renamed Ford Racing Technology(which would soon lose the last word and become Ford Racing). The 80's were a hard time on all vehicles mainly "hi-po" cars in general and the mustang was becoming obselete. In 1990 Ford was even going to kill off the Mustang line-up and send the name to Mazda for FF coupe (which was actually the "probe"). Then one man John Coletti a Ford engineer pushed for the mustang to stay, Coletti took the idea of SVO and created SVT which put out the 1993 SVT "Cobra" to draw intrest in with name cobra from previous Shelby models. SVT was/is a sucsess building the "Lightning" (My truck ), SVT Focus and even the GT Supercar.

Shelby finally came back to Ford and made up. In agreement Shelby was to put his name on Shelby Cobra GT500 ( to generate revenue for his ailing company. The interest generated was a complete hit and got buisness to come back. Shelby also stated building special editions of the mustang from his factory for even more buisness (ie GT-H Shelby GT and the "cobra concept." Now Shelby has made another package for the GT500 which his shop puts on The GT500.

Why? Why not just incoperate the 40th Annivs. model and R&T model into simply, the (what was supposed to be exclusive ) regular Cobra model?

Shelby is making a package for the GT500 more info here

http://www.autoblog.com/2006/11/05/shelby-gt500-40th-anniversary-edition-gets-visual-power-upgrade/

Ford is also introducing the "Shelby" GT, merely a sellable copy of the Hertz GT-H. But I question... why not make Shelby packages solely for the Mustang GT? seeing as how the Shelby GT isn't any more than a regular GT with a tiny boost in power... why make a big hoopla over it's "exlusiveness?"

The Shelby GT made by shelby not by Ford, see above story. The car also is a bit more than just power More info here:

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FirstDrives/articleId=116496

Recently, this... FR500-GT Mustang was introduced, as was a Mustang Ford dubbed "Project." Not to mention the Mustang GT-R a year ago, and some type of line for Roush Mustangs. And on top of all this, all these different types of Mustangs, as if they couldn't get enough attention, Ford even goes the extra step and brings Chip Foose - another Mustang tuner - into the mix, where he'll be designing even more exlusive Mustangs.

The FR500 & FR500c is a race car designed to compete in Trans-am and grand-am (which both are very sucsessful) racing.
http://www.fordracingparts.com/mustang/racer.asp

On top of all that, Ford is even bringing an old friend back into production, the Mustang BOSS 302, after very much the same vacation as the Shelby Mustangs. Oh yeah, have I mentioned the Ford Bullit Mustang due in 2008? lmao...

The Bos 302 is the Crate motor and the name "Boss" is in replacement for the code named "hurricane" engine series. There was a bulitt edition mustang for the last gen, why not this one?

More info here:
http://www.autoblog.com/2006/10/31/the-return-of-the-ford-boss-302/

And the reason I call it "attention whoring" is because, interestingly enough, Ford has never had a reason come hell or high water, to introduce so many different models of Mustang all at once!

Its funny because all the camaro tuners have become FORD tuners to save their asses. Thats why there are more than usual.

I'm sitting here wondering... where was all this enthusiasm over the Mustang in the 80's/90's? What happened to the regular Cobra at $30,000 that lasted so many generations? Why suddenly bring back the BOSS 302? Why bring back the GT500?

See above story


Oh almost forgot... The "elanor" is made by Cervani

http://www.f150online.com/products/link.cfm?psid=11&pcid=170&link=http://www.cervinis.com

 

[Ev0 4 drifter]

i would still have an original '67 over any of the new ones no matter how related they are.

 

[YSSMAN]

i would still have an original '67 over any of the new ones no matter how related they are.

Are you talking about the Camaro or the Mustang? The first year for the Mustang was 1964 1/2, when it debuted in September 1964. The Camaro and Firebird both debuted in 1967...

---

Anyway, on the topic:

First of all, lets not forget that the Mustang is arguably the most important model that Ford makes beyond the F150, and is arguably one of the most important and most identifiable cars sold in North America beyond the Corvette. So why then is it such a problem for Ford to make a few spin-offs of it's most popular car?

Face it, the car is popular, just like all of its predecessors. Ford will attempt to make as much money as possible with it for as long as they can, and if they can produce a low-cost special edition model based on the GT, why not? They can strap another $5-10K on the car, build 5000, and keep demand high. Sure, over saturating the market with special edition models might not be the best idea, but people are going to buy into it.

So lets review the models, shall we?

- The Shelby GT: It is arguably the car that the GT should have been from the get-go, but makes an interesting addition to a car that is already quite nice. For the extra money, you get the few trick pieces, an extra 25 BHP, and a shorter axle when you equip the manual transmission. I'd call that a model worth doing, and the next-best thing to a Shelby GT is a Convertible version, which may be coming down the pipes as well.

- The California Cruiser: This is supposed to be the first of the "Special Edition" Mustangs alike the BOSS, Mach 1, and Bullitt models from the previous generation. I haven't seen one myself, but I trust Ford to build a few, and keep prices down. Sounds like a nice option, but I'd stick with the Shelby GT.

- The GT500: I've made it well-known in the past that the performance of the car is underwhelming, but that doesn't mean it is a failure either. I'd buy one if I wasn't the die-hard GM guy that I am, as it looks and sounds great. Performance is indeed so-so, and I'd certainly go for the older Cobra if I was looking for speed. But it is a cool car no less, and Ford is doing well with it. So whats the problem?

In terms of whats coming down the line...

- The BOSS, Mach 1, Bullitt: I liked these models in the previous generation, and I will once again. If they only plan on building a few thousand, whats the problem? Pack in a few more BHP (may happen if they use the truck motor, like they are talking... Otherwise a new 4.6L, and possibly 5.0L is in the works) More than anything I'd want a Bullitt myself, as it is the perfect color for the Mustang.

- The FR500: As noted before, it is a strictly racing model meant to create either an all-Mustang class, or bring back classic Trans-AM racing. Good news is that the folks at Ford are apparently talking to guys at GM and DCX to do the same with the Camaro and Challenger, and that would be very interesting indeed.

 

[a6m5]

I do agree that the Stang scene is bit busy these days. I also think that they do have too many variants of the car out. Don't forget the Saleen Mustangs, either. Having said that, they are all selling well, and I don't see any attention whoring.

 

[YSSMAN]

People, people, hold on a second: We are going to need to seperate the tuner Mustangs from the production models. Tuner models include:

- Rousch
- Saleen
- Ford Racing
- Foose
- Unique Performance

...etc...

 

[harrytuttle]

There's a few points that I think are worth noting:

The 2006 GT500 has a name that incorrectly refers to the car's output, but that's nothing new. The original GT500 had a 428 cu. in. (7.0L) V8, putting out around 335HP. Neither number matches "500".

The GT350 of 1965 had a 289 cu. in. (4.7L) V8, putting out 306HP...and that didn't match anything either.

Throughout the Mustang's "heyday", there were far more versions available, from weak California Specials through the Shelby's on to the Mach 1's, all of which had multiple versions, and that's on top of the GT/non-GT models. Now that the Mustang is experiencing a revival of sorts, is it any surprise that there are numerous versions this year, too?


This is no different than how happened went 40 years ago. It sells more cars with little production or sales effort, since everyone can find the right Mustang for them all built off the same car. It's a win-win situation...unless you want your Mustang to be unique, in which case you shouldn't have bought a Mustang.

My favorite almost doesn't exist: 1968 Ford Mustang Shelby GT500 EXP My favorite year, beastly engine, and independent rear suspension.

 

[a6m5]

People, people, hold on a second: We are going to need to seperate the tuner Mustangs from the production models. Tuner models include:

- Rousch
- Saleen
- Ford Racing
- Foose
- Unique Performance

...etc...

They maybe aftermarket tuners, but outfits like Roush, Ford Racing and Saleen mostly retail through authorized Ford dealers. Cars and the parts.

Edit: I got what you are saying. Ford is not the one responsible for those tuning companies creating additional Mustang models. 👍

 

[YSSMAN]

...I've always been a fan of the '68 GT390 (see Bullitt) and the '69 GT500KR, and eventually Ford will be building a version of both for me. Sweet! Too bad the Camaro and Challenger are here to ruin the party...

 

[vectradriver]

The point is, bringing them all out at once doesn't build anticipation. If they staged it, those who want something more than the GT could buy one special edition and then a year later, Ford release another, more desirable special and they buy that. With all that choice at once, you wont get as many people chopping in their current special edition for the new one, like you would if they were released annually. Aftr a while, the buying public will probably get bored of new 'Stangs coming out and there will be a marked drop off at the end, I'd imagine.

 

[Ev0 4 drifter]

i was talking about the Mustang. i have heard a story, i don't know if it's true but it goes something like this,
there were some guys at Shelby HQ were deciding a name for thier new car, one says to another 'see that garage? how far away is it?' it was something like 350 yards, and that could be why the GT350 was named as it is.

 

[slider-s15]

i was talking about the Mustang. i have heard a story, i don't know if it's true but it goes something like this,
there were some guys at Shelby HQ were deciding a name for thier new car, one says to another 'see that garage? how far away is it?' it was something like 350 yards, and that could be why the GT350 was named as it is.

thats right! carol shelby aid it himself in an interview. its in the back of the last months issue of EVO magazine (in the uk).

 

[YSSMAN]

The point is, bringing them all out at once doesn't build anticipation. If they staged it, those who want something more than the GT could buy one special edition and then a year later, Ford release another, more desirable special and they buy that. With all that choice at once, you wont get as many people chopping in their current special edition for the new one, like you would if they were released annually. Aftr a while, the buying public will probably get bored of new 'Stangs coming out and there will be a marked drop off at the end, I'd imagine.

...Here is the thing though, it is exactly what Ford is doing with production Mustangs, as it is the Tuners and Ford's own Racing program that are pumping out concepts and model variations. Keep in mind that SEMA just happened, and given the popularity of the Mustang, there are obviously going to be a gazillion new models to debut.

For 2007, the Mustang lineup should be as follows:

- Mustang V6; Available "Pony Package"
- Mustang GT; No planned variant for 2007, Bullitt due for 2008
- Shelby Mustang GT
- Shelby Mustang GT500


...That isn't too confusing, is it?

When you add-in the Tuner versions, then things get messy...

 

[harrytuttle]

Most text below is summarized from Mustang Forums.

The point is, bringing them all out at once doesn't build anticipation. If they staged it, those who want something more than the GT could buy one special edition and then a year later, Ford release another, more desirable special and they buy that. With all that choice at once, you wont get as many people chopping in their current special edition for the new one, like you would if they were released annually. Aftr a while, the buying public will probably get bored of new 'Stangs coming out and there will be a marked drop off at the end, I'd imagine.

YSSMAN kind of summed it up well with the rather short list of current Mustangs. I don't think we can consider Roush/Saleen/etc. models part of the regular lineup. That has little or nothing to do with Ford, but is just a reflection of how popular the Mustang is.

However, this influx of multiple models is also nothing new. In 1964, ignoring convertibles of the same models (GT vs. GT convertible), there were already 4 engines available, split between the base I-6 and GT V8 models. Despite having two extra V8's, this pretty much mirrors 2005's Mustang.

In 1965, that number increased to three models with the addition of the GT350. Same engines as before, only now we have the separate GT350.

In 1966 we had everything from '65, added an extra V8 for the GT, the GT-350H, High Country Special, and fastback options on the V6 & GT.

In 1967, again, it's everything from the year before plus the Stallion, GT-500, and Shelby Super Snake. We're now up to 7 different models (ignoring fastback/coupe/convertible and engine options).

In 1968 (my favorite year, for many reasons), we pile on the GT California, T5 (Europe only), Sprint, and GT-500KR...and we now total 7 V8 engines to choose from.

In 1969 things get out of hand. This is when the Mach 1 and Boss Mustangs (two engines) arrive, along with the silly Mustang "E". However, they did drop the coupe shape (and kept the fastback).



So after just 5 years of existence, the Mustang has exploded in popularity so much to the point that they just keep adding on more models to fill every desire. It's like trying to keep up with the different configurations of the BMW 3-Series. Now picture that same following 35 years later, only you've had a relative drought of great Mustangs. The sales potential is still there, only now many are older and have more money. This current Mustang is two years old, and is pretty much following the same pattern as 1964/1965: base model plus GT the first year, add on a Shelby the second year, and a Hertz special soon after.

This is history repeating itself, not Ford being needy. They're simply taking advantage of a "target rich environment", and while I may never buy a new Mustang (no independant rear suspension!), I applaud Ford for every new-era fastback they produce.



And after you've read all that, don't forget all the Mopar & GM models that were out around the same time and are also returning....

 

[dubbed]

...I've always been a fan of the '68 GT390 (see Bullitt) and the '69 GT500KR, and eventually Ford will be building a version of both for me. Sweet! Too bad the Camaro and Challenger are here to ruin the party...

GM lost a whole lot of aftermarket support with the Camaro going out. DCX also had a big gaping hole in terms of aftermarket support for the "hemi" engines. When the Camaro and Callenger coming back the biggest question is will all the converted Camaro tuners come back to GM?



...Hold on GT500 underwhelming?

How is


The GT500

0-60 4.5sec

1/4 mile 12.7 @116 mph

passing 45-65 1.9 secs

600ft slalom: 69.7 mph

lateral accleration .92g

Mt figure eight: 24.5secs @ .77g

Underwhelming?

 

[TopHat]

When people want a car, they will get it. This we will see in the near future, there will be Mach 1 livery packages, a shaker hood scoop, A super "Cobra Jet" Engine. Ford picked the right nameplate to dig up and make good on. Everyone who saw the car had to know that this was coming, the retro shape = retro trim levels.

Someone change the name of the thread. THEY AREN'T ATTENTION GRABBERS, JUST MARKETING GENIUSES ( thats not saying much )

 

[dubbed]

The FR500: As noted before, it is a strictly racing model meant to create either an all-Mustang class, or bring back classic Trans-AM racing. Good news is that the folks at Ford are apparently talking to guys at GM and DCX to do the same with the Camaro and Challenger, and that would be very interesting indeed.

Just reading through Car and Driver, and FR500GT will make its start in an all Fr500GT race series to be run on the saturday before Champ Car races. Then other manf. are going to join into that series and we will see a return of the Trans-am series.

Wooo Hooo

 

[YSSMAN]

When the Camaro and Callenger coming back the biggest question is will all the converted Camaro tuners come back to GM?

Without a doubt everyone will jump back in the GM boat. I know I will, as the Camaro is pretty much unquestionably my favorite car (okay maybe the Corvette too), as we do have a '68 here as well. Considering that GM will be throwing a high-power V6, two V8 options, and all with have an optional 6-speed manual, plus an independent rear suspension, I think that qualifies it as a "better" car than the Mustang.

...BTW: Who bailed out on the Camaro that I'm supposed to know about? The big-guns are still here; GMMG, Berger, Dale Earnhardt Inc, SLP, Lingenfelter, Mallett, etc...

Hell, Saleen already said that he is planning on working on the Camaro... How screwed up is that?

...Hold on GT500 underwhelming?

How is

The GT500
0-60 4.5sec
1/4 mile 12.7 @116 mph
passing 45-65 1.9 secs
600ft slalom: 69.7 mph
lateral accleration .92g
Mt figure eight: 24.5secs @ .77g

Underwhelming?

Lets see:

1) Motor Trend's opinion doesn't count on anything Mustang, they love it no matter what... Plus, they don't know how to drive

2) The GT500 still handles like a pig, too much understeer (could be the iron 5.4L S/C V8 sitting on the axle and the live axle?)

3) Even with 500 BHP, it still can't outrun or match a Corvette Z51? Seriously... I thought she was going to be a Corvette killer?

4) Price wise, it isn't a winner either. Good luck finding one at MSRP, and even then, I'd still call the Corvette a better deal

5) When the 2004 SVT Cobra, on a chassis that dates back to 1979, down 110 BHP, and the only major advantage being the IRA, can outrun a modern "super-Mustang" I'd call that a disappointment. I don't know about you. Oh, and that is both in a straight-line and around a "true" race track...

---

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't mind having a new GT500. I'll take mine in blue without the stripes, please. But I've been dissapointed by the high expectations created by Ford and the rumor mill, particularly when it was supposed to be a "Corvette Killer."

But the solution is just around the corner: Buy a Camaro SS or ZL1 and smoke it without a problem. That includes the straight line and around a "true" race track.

 

[FAOLIU05]

The last time I walked into a Ford Dealership, they had a GT in the showroom. I went over to look at it and one of the salesmen came over we chit chatted. I asked how much the GT was selling for, and he said I'd have to put a downpayment down just to hear the price... it was that high. But I coaxed it out of him and he finally showed me the price tag which nearly doubled the MSRP.

He then later told me that they were getting two Cobra's in, both of them selling for just over $60,000. That's how seriously Ford is taking there Mustang Cobras now. That's pretty ridiculous for what you're really getting.

Anyway, the lowest Cobra time I've seen was 12.7, completely stock. For having 500hp, that's pretty crappy. Especially when sedans like the E 55 AMG or M5 are timing in at 12.5. I mean... come on man! Really...

 

[dubbed]

...BTW: Who bailed out on the Camaro that I'm supposed to know about? The big-guns are still here; GMMG, Berger, Dale Earnhardt Inc, SLP, Lingenfelter, Mallett, etc...

Hell, Saleen already said that he is planning on working on the Camaro... How screwed up is that?

Saleen really got on Ford's bad side with GT debocle, the suspension problems early in production were straight from Saleen. Thats why Roush is now a lot closer to Ford, and Saleen is grasping for more buisness as his relations with Ford have gone down the drain.

I'm talking about the smaller tuning companies, the ones that people go to for parts. Just look at SEMA this year the car that is showcased the most was the Mustang.

Lets see:

1) Motor Trend's opinion doesn't count on anything Mustang, they love it no matter what... Plus, they don't know how to drive

purely subjective...All of the other major magizines love the GT500. R&T, Dupont registry....The only one that doesn't is Car and Driver.

2) The GT500 still handles like a pig, too much understeer (could be the iron 5.4L S/C V8 sitting on the axle and the live axle?)

69.7 through the 600ft slalom is better than the Z06, .92g's on the skidpad is .01 more than an Evo MR. At the limit it does understeer, like 99.9% of production cars (the 911 even understeers at the limit).

From road and track: http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=6&article_id=3086&page_number=2

While the GT500 is similar in concept to the hairy GT500KRs of yore, its execution is decidedly civilized. The first impression is that of a tractable, easy-to-drive sporty car with linear power delivery at lower speeds. That linear feel masks the beast beneath-the GT500 is ready to rock when you jump on the accelerator.

Even though the iron-block Triton V-8 and its peripherals including supercharger, intercooler and beefed-up transmission add nearly 300 lb. to the curb weight (much of it on the nose), the GT500 feels remarkably balanced, almost lithe....

The overall driving experience of the GT500 is pleasant in normal driving and exhilarating when you're on it. The handling is fairly neutral until the massive power is tapped to induce power oversteer. Lift the throttle and the back end settles into place. The predictable nature of the suspension is owed to its simplicity.

3) Even with 500 BHP, it still can't outrun or match a Corvette Z51? Seriously... I thought she was going to be a Corvette killer?

It's not supposed to be a two seat sportscar, its a four seat grand touring coupe. Car and Driver's comparison was nowhere near logical. You dont see the SLK 55AMG being compared t an M3 despite the same price range. The F-150 and three series are in the price range for some models...why not compare them? It is faster than the vette in midrange power beating it from 60-80 (granted the vette's roof doesn't fly off).

4) Price wise, it isn't a winner either. Good luck finding one at MSRP, and even then, I'd still call the Corvette a better deal

The add on is simply due to market...good luck finding a Z06 at MSRP. The GT500 is still a damn good deal, better than a vette in value....um yes. Oh i forgot the vette comes standard with an active detachable roof, deplorable seats and interior, dated transmission and of course poor resale value. The GT500 doesn't.

5) When the 2004 SVT Cobra, on a chassis that dates back to 1979, down 110 BHP, and the only major advantage being the IRA, can outrun a modern "super-Mustang" I'd call that a disappointment. I don't know about you. Oh, and that is both in a straight-line and around a "true" race track...

Outrun...how the 2004 SVT Cobra is slower on all fronts, unless of course your "true" race track consists of an imagination and assumptions. The GT500 was never dubbed "corvette killer" by anyone other than overzealous speculators

But the solution is just around the corner: Buy a Camaro SS or ZL1 and smoke it without a problem. That includes the straight line and around a "true" race track.

The GT500 is directly under the vette in performance, when (hopefully before 2020) GM finally builds one, it can't beat the GT500 wihthout being in line with vette performance. GM many times has shown that it doesn't want any car in its portfolio that will compete with vette.

 

[harrytuttle]

1) Motor Trend's opinion doesn't count on anything Mustang, they love it no matter what... Plus, they don't know how to drive

2) The GT500 still handles like a pig, too much understeer (could be the iron 5.4L S/C V8 sitting on the axle and the live axle?)

3) Even with 500 BHP, it still can't outrun or match a Corvette Z51? Seriously... I thought she was going to be a Corvette killer?

4) Price wise, it isn't a winner either. Good luck finding one at MSRP, and even then, I'd still call the Corvette a better deal

5) When the 2004 SVT Cobra, on a chassis that dates back to 1979, down 110 BHP, and the only major advantage being the IRA, can outrun a modern "super-Mustang" I'd call that a disappointment. I don't know about you. Oh, and that is both in a straight-line and around a "true" race track...

I agree with everything except #4, which is mostly out of Ford's control...mostly. The 2007 car is far from what it could have been. The excuses about how the public demanded a solid rear axle are ridiculous. It's just Ford engineering the car down to a price...on something they're making huge margins on anyway.

It's not supposed to be a two seat sportscar, its a four seat grand touring coupe.

Right, and my Impreza is WRC-ready.

 

[dubbed]

I agree with everything except #4, which is mostly out of Ford's control...mostly. The 2007 car is far from what it could have been. The excuses about how the public demanded a solid rear axle are ridiculous. It's just Ford engineering the car down to a price...on something they're making huge margins on anyway.

Its amazing where you get your info from

O'Connell (SVT chief technical engineer) said a modular approach to an independent rear (on the previous car, the independent rear bolted into the same space as the stock axle) would have added weight, cost and still would not have had the optimum geometry because of the packaging constraints.

Right, and my Impreza is WRC-ready.

Its funny you don't understand what definition of Grand Touring is in relations to cars, rather than explaining it let me illustrate:

M6-grand touring coupe
XK-R-grand touring coupe
CL 63 AMG- grand touring coupe


Now get it?

 

[YSSMAN]

Yes, and we would all jump to compare a GT500 to a M6 or XKR. Like it or not, the GT500 is going to be compared to the Corvette and the SRT-10. Corvette comparisons against the Mustang are nothing new here... They have been competing on and off since the '60s, particularly in the musclecar hayday with the GT500(KR) and 327/350/396 Corvettes. Today, they are priced the same, perform similarly, and target the same group of people. So why then can't they compete with one another?

The GT500 is a great cruiser/bruiser, and will will be plenty happy up to about 8/10ths driving. But when you start getting into technical stuff, the combination of the LRA and big-ol' 5.4L S/C V8 stops the fun.

Check the C/D VIR Times:

Ford GT: 3.00.7
Z06: 3.01.1
SRT-10: 3.01.6
M6: 3.10.0
Elise: 3.09.2
Corvette Z51: 3.09.3
Cayman S: 3.09.5
GT500: 3.11.0
Charger SRT-8: 3.18.2

Competitors highlighted in bold...

Car and Driver does point out that the car with the revised suspension felt more lively, but a powertrain problem arose and slowed it down just a bit. A re-test will be done when a new donor car can be located for the track.

As I have pointed out several times, just because I have deemed the performance disappointing doesn't mean that I wouldn't buy one, if I had the money of course. I'd buy one long-before an M6 or CL63, just because of the money I would save. Although comparisons to the XKR are a bit one-sided, as my Jaguar lust conquers all.

 

[dubbed]

Today, they are priced the same, perform similarly, and target the same group of people. So why then can't they compete with one another?

The Z51 as tested in car and driver cost $56,070 vs the GT500 which was estimated at 45,000 (in actuality the GT500 coupe tops out at 43,760 with all the options). The two are not in the same price range.

 

[YSSMAN]

...Do some research and you can find a Z51 1LT retailing for $46,690...

I'd call that comparable on price!

CHEVY

 

[huntervf]

Something that hasn't been mentioned yet (at least I didn't catch it) is that the 03-04 SVT Cobras are "thought" to have been underrated from the factory. It's been my experience that these cars were actually making in the neighborhood of 425-430 horsepower as opposed to the advertised 390. That can help explain why the GT500 doesn't differ much in performance from their predecessors... truth be told it's not making that much more power!

Also, the solid rear axle story for the GT500 is quite valid. While the late model Cobras and 'stangs in general have been decent handling machines, the heart of the Mustang was always in the 1/4 mile, and a solid rear axle fares much better in such an application. Most Cobra and now GT500 owners who elect to take their car to the track will not be going to a road course, but a 1/4 strip. I know of quite a few Cobra 99-04 Cobra owners who actually converted back to a solid axle for this very reason, so a solid rear axle in this car makes complete sense.

It's unfortunate that the Mustang does get compared to the Corvette. It's true that these two cars are the performance icons for the states, so it's natural that comparisons will be made. It's VERY important to remember though, that in reality these are two completely different cars with different design parameters and different performance goals.

As for all the different Mustang variants, as is been stated, aftermarket tuners such as Roush, Saleen, Foose etc. are stand-alone brands not directly affiliated with Ford. The other models that have been mentioned are not coming out all at once but over a period of years and in limited numbers. Anyone who knows the history of the Mustang (as well as many other performance cars) knows that such an offering is commonplace and typically quite successful.

 

[Deathclown66]

2005... as the imports dominated the American auto market

Good Lord, the imports are dominating the American market?!?!?!?
When did this happen?
I say this because last I heard, Chevy itself, minus all other GM brands, was the best selling auto-company in America, with Ford in Second.....Hey, if your gonna be dominated, let it be that way!

I see what you mean, now the name 'Mustang' doesn't mean spit, Ford stretched the Mustang out too long, I believe they had a crappy v6 with something like 130 horsepower. I say give up the Mustang, let it die in dignity, it's come to the point where they are just trying to get more money by making knock-offs of icons (Eleanor and the Bullit 'stang)

Why would they cancel the Mustang? Why would they let it die? last I heard, not counting any special models, sales were quite high for a non grocery-getter, and in excess of 20,000.
And the V6 had 190hp from 99-04, and has more (not sure exactly), but well over 200 starting in '05.

Its funny you don't understand what definition of Grand Touring is in relations to cars, rather than explaining it let me illustrate:
M6-grand touring coupe
XK-R-grand touring coupe
CL 63 AMG- grand touring coupe

Grand Tourers have rear-seat room that somebody who is, oh, I don't know, 5-10, 150lbs like myself, can actually sit in the rear, without digging holes in the back of the front seat with their knees.
The Mustang is a muscle car, and I'll leave it at that.

P.S. The Mercedes AMG line with 500HP will slaughter an M3 or Mustang Alike, in a straight line, despite having no more power than the 'Stang, and weighing about 5-600 lbs more, FYI.