FORMULA 1 Gran Premio Heineken D'Italia 2018Formula 1 

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Supposedly a post-race image of Kimi's tire. Looks pretty close to failing, does it not?! Although I'm guessing the Merc tires weren't far off either...
 

Sureboss

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There was plenty of room for Vettel, he just chose to not use it. It was obvious from the start of that move that Lewis would have been compromised down in to Lesmo 1. Vettel could have held back, got a better exit from the chicane and got him in there.

Great move from Lewis.
 

DesertPenguin

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I'm not arguing if it was fair or not. Sure, it was fair. But it was overly aggressive on the first lap and he should know better. There would have been other opportunities to get ahead.
 
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Yes. Bottas was overtaking on the outside. He should have braked a little earlier and the margin of that contact was so small he could have gone to the left perhaps 1-2 cm and they wouldnt have made contact. Verstappen had the inside line and was in front. At worst this was a racing incident, but not a 5 second penalty. Personally I think that was way to harsh.
 
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I'm not arguing if it was fair or not. Sure, it was fair. But it was overly aggressive on the first lap and he should know better.

Agreed, Vettel should have known better.
He also shouldn't have tried to race Kimi the way he did off the line. Team orders would have allowed him to pass without compromising him to Lewis anyway. But, brilliant driving from Lewis, one of his best performances.
 

Sureboss

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Ferrari is the faster car this season, as Spa showed, Lewis will take any chance he can get. It wasn't overly aggressive, Max on Bottas was overly aggressive. There was room for Lewis to do that move around the outside of Vettel, Vettel had loads of track to race on.
 

Jimlaad43

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I'm not arguing if it was fair or not. Sure, it was fair. But it was overly aggressive on the first lap and he should know better. There would have been other opportunities to get ahead.
I'm sorry, but this is one of the most ridiculous comments that has been said in this thread.

You're saying that a racing driver should just happily sit behind his title rival because he can pass him later? Lap 1 is always the best time to pass people, and if you have a run, you go for it. Everyone always says Senna's famous quote "If you no longer go for a gap which exists you are no longer a racing driver", and that's exactly what Hamilton had, a clear gap and a great run, plus the confidence to outbrake him.

You say he would pass him later, but that's a stupid statement. Hamilton knew that the Ferrari was the fastest car, you just need to see the entire Belgian GP and the rest of practice and qualifying in Monza to know that. Add to that, look how long it took him to pass the slower Ferrari in Raikkonen, and that was only because Kimi tore his tyres up. If roles were reversed, and it was Kimi rather than Sebastian that spun on lap 1, Vettel would have cruised to the win. Face it, Kimi is not quick enough to win races on merit anymore, and that race proved it, which is why Leclerc should have the seat.

No, Hamilton knew that Lap 1 was his chance to slow Vettel up, and he needed to overtake him there. He got a run, went to the outside and gave him space. Even Nico "Austria 2016" Rosberg said Hamilton did everything right in that move. Seb still had space to his left, he didn't even touch the orange sausage kerb, and Hamilton justly accelerated to the second corner in the chicane because he was ahead. Vettel went into panic mode and bounced into Hamilton, which unfortunately for him didn't work.

Hamilton has a points lead, so can afford to make slightly brasher moves. If it all went wrong and the both ended up in a gravel trap, that's one less race Hamilton has to worry about Vettel catching up. Vettel is dropping back again and can't afford another mistake like this. He has to approach wheel-to-wheel battles with more caution than Hamilton does. Vettel is the one who should have known better. Of all the options available to him, he chose the worst one - apart from maybe taking only himself out of the race. He needed to either completely back off and accept it, and try himself to overtake later in the race; or go full torpedo and take both cars out of the race, or at the very least make sure Hamilton spun off with him.

TL;DR - Hamilton did what every racing driver should have done - ie pulled off an overtake on a faster car on lap 1 when they had the opportunity, but still placed the car in a fair space that gives space for the opponent to exist.
 

DesertPenguin

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Senna's famous quote "If you no longer go for a gap which exists you are no longer a racing driver"
First off, I don't wanna go back and forth.

Secondly, even Senna himself refuted this quote IIRC

Third, it's called strategy and picking your moments. Discretion is the better part of valor or something like that.

Fourth, agree to disagree, it was a good race overall and we all can't wait for the next one! 👍
 

ROAD_DOGG33J

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Ferrari is the faster car this season, as Spa showed, Lewis will take any chance he can get. It wasn't overly aggressive, Max on Bottas was overly aggressive. There was room for Lewis to do that move around the outside of Vettel, Vettel had loads of track to race on.

+1

Hamilton did what he was paid to do. There's no guarantee that he would pass Vettel at the next opportunity. What if the next opportunity is too aggressive as well.
 

daan

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I often end up watching F1 with my family these days, and we often have a laugh at the fact that the TV commentators often repeat exactly what one of us has just said. My Dad and I have watched F1 for as long as I can remember, but my sister also takes an interest and watches parts of the race. My Mum, however, doesn't follow F1 but sometimes finds herself watching it simply because the rest of us are watching it... bless her, she still often mistakes the formation lap for the start of the race.

But even she could see that Verstappen's move was wrong.
Did your mum wonder how that Merc with the flashy lights got to the front?
 
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40991594_10160851935670494_3914507651127443456_n.jpg


Supposedly a post-race image of Kimi's tire. Looks pretty close to failing, does it not?! Although I'm guessing the Merc tires weren't far off either...

You could see as the race drew to a close just how much damage was being done to both rear tyres, but seeing that... jeez. :ill:
 
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I'm not arguing if it was fair or not. Sure, it was fair. But it was overly aggressive on the first lap and he should know better. There would have been other opportunities to get ahead.

There was a gap and he took it. Senna would’ve been proud.
 

McLaren

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Quite ironic that all the smug Brits are patting each others' backs for a great joke and praising Princess Louise for doing an amazing job without realizing that he was nearly seven seconds behind and falling further before his Austrian boss used his Finnish team mate to save his race.

Speaking of that team mate, damn the man is a joke. I wonder if he still believes he has a bright future ahead of him, surely he's a true Mr. Nice Guy but he couldn't be any more of a puppet if he tried to and he doesn't even seem to realize it himself. He seemingly still buys everything Wolff says to him about equality and fair racing and that he's just having back luck with his strategy choices.
Boo hoo. As if the Italians don't have a history of pulling the same move of providing race-saving favoritism....
At the Austrian Grand Prix [2002] I was told over the radio "Do you know that Michael is behind you? It is important for the championship". The intensity of my conversation with the team increased with every lap while there were just a few laps to go and then I was told that they would take a closer look at my contract if I wouldn't move over.

For me it was pretty clear. Take my foot off the pedal or get fired. When I asked Michael [Schumacher] if he knew what was going on he said he had nothing to do with it. But I have documents at home to prove that he was very well aware of everything that took place.
"OK, so. Fernando is faster than you. Can you confirm you understood that message?"

Massa moved aside a lap later, and Smedley came back on the radio to say, "OK mate, good lad. Just stick with him now. Sorry."

Commentator Martin Brundle noted the similarities to Austria 2002, and as then it wasn't overly appreciated by the F1 community. Team orders were supposedly illegal at the time, but as reported by The Telegraph, Ferrari got away with a paltry $100,000 fine.
 

TenEightyOne

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And how, according to rules, is a white line at that corner different to white line into T1? That’s the point I was tryin to make :P

You can put one wheel over, you can put two wheels over, you can put three wheels over*. It's the fourth that breaks the rule.

*Hokey cokey, in out etc. etc.
 

Dotini

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Great qualifying, great race. Think we all were expecting a fairly boring weekend.
I disagree. The GP was entirely predictable and processional. Best driver and team won, as usual, fair and square. Flawed dude in a local entry once again proved they're not up to the job.

If you needed a truly great race, you should have watched the Indy cars at Portland!
 
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40991594_10160851935670494_3914507651127443456_n.jpg


Supposedly a post-race image of Kimi's tire. Looks pretty close to failing, does it not?! Although I'm guessing the Merc tires weren't far off either...

I think Pirelli are going to have to take a good close look at track surface and how it affected their tire formulation as, according to reports, Hamiltons tires were not in good state either. Tires should wear, sure, but really shouldn't be on the brink of disintegration.
 

daan

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I think Pirelli are going to have to take a good close look at track surface and how it affected their tire formulation as, according to reports, Hamiltons tires were not in good state either. Tires should wear, sure, but really shouldn't be on the brink of disintegration.
There's nothing that Pirelli can do if the teams decide to run the tyres longer and faster than they should. Kimi stopped way too early, ran too hard on them after his stop, and paid for it later.
 

Jimlaad43

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It's not Pirelli's fault the tyres do that. Ferrari are well known for driving on the tyres too long until they explode. Just look at Belgium 2015 and Austria 2016 as examples.
 
938
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There's nothing that Pirelli can do if the teams decide to run the tyres longer and faster than they should. Kimi stopped way too early, ran too hard on them after his stop, and paid for it later.

It's not Pirelli's fault the tyres do that. Ferrari are well known for driving on the tyres too long until they explode. Just look at Belgium 2015 and Austria 2016 as examples.

You both have a very good point - I guess I still have vivid memories of the 2005 US Grand Prix
 
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Didn't realize it until watching this; HAM punted VET in the first chicane...even though the second chicane is unrelated, it still feels a bit ironic somehow that Hamilton ultimately spun Vettel. Granted, it looked more like Vettel drove in to Hamilton.

Also the incident between Perez and Magnussen was frustrating to watch. While the HAAS and Toro Rosso didn't exactly join the track abruptly, they did kind of stay in the way, and Magnussen was annoyingly aggressive going in to the next corner, which he ultimately paid for (Perez too for going for it I suppose).
 
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niky

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Thought they could get away with it?

Perfectly possible to create a non-ideal substitute within the time while developing a totally new part. Guess they didn't want to lose places on track because of it.