Formula 1 Magyar Nagydíj 2016

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Bram Turismo

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I think Hamilton has gotten into his groove again. You can say about the man what you will, but he is driving like a champion. It seems to me he has Rosberg covered at all times, pushing the car only when he really has to.

Unfortunately for Nico, he lacks the outright talent to beat Lewis. As much as I think he deserves a title, he won't get one as long as the second Mercedes seat is being occupied by a more talented driver. I'm not really a Hamilton fan, but credit where it's due. The man seems pretty much unbeatable in his current form.
 

Dennisch

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Rosberg misses that final piece of quality that makes someone a champion. He had several opportunities yesterday to come within DRS range of Hamilton but every single time he just came short allowing Hamilton to drive away~ish.
 
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Rosberg misses that final piece of quality that makes someone a champion. He had several opportunities yesterday to come within DRS range of Hamilton but every single time he just came short allowing Hamilton to drive away~ish.

Umm while I quite agree with you, I think for yesterday it was more like the track nature and the fact that Rosberg and Hamilton can't have a crash again that prevent Rosberg for doing anything. Max couldnt overtake neither could Kimi, Vettel or any top drivers for that matter. The only overtakes on the track for the top 6 was between the start and turn 3 then nothing happen between them on the track. Rest was strategy call.

If you want overtake, just watch another GP or hope for a changing condition or wet race.

Hopefully next year gonna be easier on overtake with wider tyre and smaller profile wings. It's the goal at least.
 
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Tired_Tyres
Barcelona seems to be the key. Before then Rosberg was flying and Hamilton was scrambling. Since then Hamilton has been flying and Rosberg, well he hasn't.

Perhaps it's a confidence thing and Rosberg needs a reset.
 

Nessy

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I don't think it's a confidence thing with Nico. He's proved he can deliver and (IMHO) has all the ingredients of being able to clinch the WDC. I'd rather he didn't, as I see him as the strongest threat to my favourite driver's (Lewis) own WDC goal.

Looking at the points, the championship's far from over. I'm just keeping my fingers crossed that Lewis manages to clinch it.
 
6,112
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OutlawQuadrant
How the race unfolded yesterday is kinda how Rosberg's attempts to be WDC has gone over the years. He had the pole at a track where overtaking is Monaco hard and where Hamilton thrives at. He's been beating Hamilton at the starts and I had fully expected Hamilton to get swallowed up by both Red Bulls. This was such a prime opportunity for Rosberg.

By the exit of Turn 1, Hamilton was leading and it was Rosberg that had to fight to hold second. It slipped away from him and couldn't get it back. Those type of days is what he cannot allow to happen.
 
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Verstappen vs Räikkönen: Charlie Whiting asked Stewards during and again after the race to investigate incidents, but they saw no reason to

Article is in German and behind a paywall. Summary in English, via Reddit:

  • Verstappen adamant he had merely defended his position hard
  • Räikkönen called Verstappen's maneuvers during the race "questionable"
  • Ferrari believed Verstappen had changed direction twice while defending and contacted Charlie Whiting
  • Whiting contacted the Stewards during and again after the race to look at the incidents
  • both times they saw no reason to investigate
  • this could have been influenced by the opinion of Alan Jones (one of the Stewards that race), who's known as a hard fighter on track
  • 2 hours after the race they looked at the incidents again after Räikkönen had complained publicly
  • in laps 57 and 67 Verstappen demonstrably changed direction twice while fighting Räikkönen
  • the first changes of direction were interpreted as bringing the car in the perfect position for the corner, and only the second changes of direction were interpreted as defensive moves
  • Räikkönen's criticism is mainly about the timing of Verstappen's moves
  • he says Verstappen didn't leave him with time to react, which first resulted in his front wing being damaged and later forced him to run wide in turn 1
  • Whiting most interested in Räikkönen's second attack at turn 1
  • Verstappen moved his car left onto the ideal line 125m before the corner
  • Räikkönen then moved to the inside and Verstappen did the same 75m before the corner already in the braking zone
  • Räikkönen had to take avoiding action and moved to the left again
  • there is an unwritten law against changing lanes during braking, because it leaves the car behind with hardly any time to react
  • Whiting wants to talk to Räikkönen again in Hockenheim to get his point of view, although it's now too late to punish Verstappen

The second to last point seems to be the key one. An unwritten rule of racing and what Raikkonen believes was broken. Problem of course is that it's unwritten.
 

niky

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Wonder where we can get a view of that incident from another angle?

Rosberg misses that final piece of quality that makes someone a champion. He had several opportunities yesterday to come within DRS range of Hamilton but every single time he just came short allowing Hamilton to drive away~ish.

Not really... Rosberg simply lacked the outright speed... Lewis was only getting swallowed up because he seemed to be sandbagging, as @prisonermonkeys is suggesting.
 

prisonermonkeys

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Rosberg simply lacked the outright speed... Lewis was only getting swallowed up because he seemed to be sandbagging, as @prisonermonkeys is suggesting.
If it was any other circuit, it probably would have played out differently. But the tight corners magnified the effect, so even if Rosberg had the pace that would have seen him through elsewhere, here it wasn't possible.

And yes, I think it's dirty. One driver shouldn't be allowed to manipulate another driver's race like that. Everyone moans about drivers racing at 80% to manage fuel loads and tyre life; to my mind, a driver racing at 80% to dictate another driver's race is no different.
 

niky

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If it was any other circuit, it probably would have played out differently. But the tight corners magnified the effect, so even if Rosberg had the pace that would have seen him through elsewhere, here it wasn't possible.

And yes, I think it's dirty. One driver shouldn't be allowed to manipulate another driver's race like that. Everyone moans about drivers racing at 80% to manage fuel loads and tyre life; to my mind, a driver racing at 80% to dictate another driver's race is no different.

Tools in the arsenal. Fernando Alonso spent most of his two championship seasons managing the pace in front of stronger competition in a Renault that was much faster in qualifying than in race trim. If a driver can pace himself and still win, that's part of the game.

As Niki Lauda says: "The secret is to win going as slowly as possible."

Preserving your car for the next race is part and parcel of winning championships. Can you blame Hamilton for wanting to push back that engine penalty as far as possible?
 
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762
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BLADESOF1889
The list of things that are wrong in F1 is growing each week, I think that F1 needs to rewrite and simplify the rulebook for sake of clarity for drivers, teams and fans. 2017 is around the corner and all of this needs sorting out, 2017 is the perfect time to start again.
 
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mustafur
If it was any other circuit, it probably would have played out differently. But the tight corners magnified the effect, so even if Rosberg had the pace that would have seen him through elsewhere, here it wasn't possible.

And yes, I think it's dirty. One driver shouldn't be allowed to manipulate another driver's race like that. Everyone moans about drivers racing at 80% to manage fuel loads and tyre life; to my mind, a driver racing at 80% to dictate another driver's race is no different.
What about Mark Webber at Monaco in 2012 where he basically manipulated the entire grid to get vettel higher up.
 
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I don't see how it's dirty, if people can't get past you that is their problem, nobody says you have to drive the car at 100% every lap. As long as you defend within the rules it's just racing.

Also Lewis was driving in a lower engine mode primarily to save the engine. He has penalties looming over him and wants to make sure it's only one, not several. There is no proof he was trying to back Rosberg into Ricciardo. It seems pointless given he knew that in the same way he could turn his engine up, so could Rosberg. They both put in much faster times around the Ricciardo pit.
 
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sems4arsenal

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I think Hungary needs to be pulled straight away from the Calendar, if you can't overtake there you shouldn't race their should be the rule in every race..... except for Monaco. (waiting for why is Monaco special reply).
 
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Dreadmed
I think Hungary needs to be pulled straight away from the Calendar, if you can't overtake there you shouldn't race their should be the rule in every race..... except for Monaco. (waiting for why is Monaco special reply).

But why is it special? ;)
 
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If it was any other circuit, it probably would have played out differently. But the tight corners magnified the effect, so even if Rosberg had the pace that would have seen him through elsewhere, here it wasn't possible.

And yes, I think it's dirty. One driver shouldn't be allowed to manipulate another driver's race like that. Everyone moans about drivers racing at 80% to manage fuel loads and tyre life; to my mind, a driver racing at 80% to dictate another driver's race is no different.

It was a Prost style of driving, I see nothing wrong with it. Then you couple in other factors that will harm the championship efforts of Lewis later in the season, like him trying to prolong his engine for future races. It becomes apparent that history is probably dictating how some of us see it, rather than presently. I too think it was a manipulation to keep Nico behind, Nico didn't seem too mad about it, and I can see why, it's racing really. Now people mad about a young phenom 18 year old pulling one too many dangerous maneuvers on the other hand.

However, a day or two after the event I can see how Lewis many have only done it to preserve the car, which ironically history also has shown him doing this in other seasons with Mercedes.
 
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I think Hungary needs to be pulled straight away from the Calendar, if you can't overtake there you shouldn't race their should be the rule in every race..... except for Monaco. (waiting for why is Monaco special reply).
But there was lots of overtaking on Hungary in the previous 2 races (I realise they were a bit of an exception to the norm in Hungary).

Pick any track on the calander and you can find boring races there. Not a good reason to take any track off the calander in my opinion.

Also why is it the track's fault? Couldn't equal blame be placed on the cars?

Personally I don't like the idea of tracks being designed specifically to accommodate the needs of a modern F1 car. I feel a modern F1 car should be built to be successful and entertaining on the classic circuits that we have.
 

sems4arsenal

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@twitcher I agree but that's the reality we live in, cars need clean air. 2017 won't help much anyway, we're stuck in this situation and the only solution I see that isn't gimmicky is using the tracks that provide more overtaking and have them in times with mixed weather, of course this also doesn't make sense since all you need to be put on the calendar is money.
 
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@twitcher I agree but that's the reality we live in, cars need clean air.
True, but I would say that's mostly because of the regulations and the format of the GP weekend. Either or both of those could also be changed, just like the track could be changed.

2017 won't help much anyway, we're stuck in this situation and the only solution I see that isn't gimmicky is using the tracks that provide more overtaking and have them in times with mixed weather, of course this also doesn't make sense since all you need to be put on the calendar is money.
So which tracks not currently on the calander - which create lots of overtaking and that have the necessary financial backing - would you suggest should replace Hungary? If you're talking about a circuit that's not currently FIA grade 1, or about one being built specific for F1, that's 10s or 100s of millions of dollars....to give the world another FIA grade 1 circuit. Do we really need more of those? Keep in mind that circuits like Shanghai, Bahrain, and COTA are modern F1 circuits that are designed to promote overtaking. I actually like them as F1 tracks, but they're quite average for pretty much everything else.

As for the mixed weather....that's all fine and dandy if all you're doing is tuning in on Sunday to watch the race, but it kind of sucks if you're trying to go to the track for the entire weekend. Especially if you're trying to camp there. Since the main sorce of revenue for most tracks is ticket sales and vendor sales, I think it would be a poor decision to purposely schedule races during seasons notorious for poor weather. It's not fair to the loyal fans who actually go to the races, and it's just another way to cause the tracks to make even less money than they already do.
 
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mustafur
People have Short Memories, Whilst Hungary can provide boring races, one safety car can make it the best race of the season, given that the outside of the track is not that large usually any crash results in one.