Formula 1 Pirelli British Grand Prix 2021Formula 1 

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JuanAP95X
And he still won’t take responsibility. Perhaps once he settles down and watches the onboards he will. Regardless of knowing wether or not Max was in hospital you shouldn’t celebrate like that when winning by causing a collision. Maybe I’m just too polite, but I don’t think that is what Fangio or Moss would’ve been like.
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If a driver doesn't think they've done anything wrong, of course they're not going to take responsibility. I don't know how many times I've seen 2 drivers get in each other's way and go on the radio, "He's a ****ing idiot!" even when the on-boards show us whose at fault.

To think he might after watching the replays is a pipe dream, esp. when there's been plenty of takes like Karun who I believe indicated both drivers were aggressive and both didn't think the other was backing down.
 
GingerBredMan
Why is it up the Lewis to be the bigger person when Max is the one with the history of not leaving space?

If Max was "the bigger man", he would have backed off. And ultimately would have had 51 laps to overtake Lewis.
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LOL. So first you'd rather Lewis stooped to Max's level, and has no reason to be the bigger man. Second you'd rather Max backed off from a fight. Make your mind up as it has to apply to both equally.
 
Penalty was fair based off other incidents in F2 this weekend. Clearly Lewis was at fault but nothing seemed intentional. It’s not a smart move for sure as you really need to trust the car and the other driver’s awareness of where your car is. Line is too tight and you’ll definitely understeer and both converge to the same spot and collide. Unless you choose to be too nice and die on the curbs like Leclerc. (He was significantly slower than Lewis though unlike Max.) Penalty points are there for a reason when a time penalty isn’t impactful enough.
 
McLaren
If a driver doesn't think they've done anything wrong, of course they're not going to take responsibility. I don't know how many times I've seen 2 drivers get in each other's way and go on the radio, "He's a ****ing idiot!" even when the on-boards show us whose at fault.

To think he might after watching the replays is a pipe dream, esp. when there's been plenty of takes like Karun who I believe indicated both drivers were aggressive and both didn't think the other was backing down.
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I know what you mean. Perhaps drivers are just not as respectful as they were back then. I think it’s equally terrible to swear like that on the radio. I can’t imagine someone like Roger Federer speaking like that. But yeah, it’s what it is. Let’s see what happens next.
 
JuanAP95X
I know what you mean. Perhaps drivers are just not as respectful as they were back then. I think it’s equally terrible to swear like that on the radio. I can’t imagine someone like Roger Federer speaking like that. But yeah, it’s what it is. Let’s see what happens next.
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It's just emotions. This incident will likely sting for a while, but the drivers (& athletes in general) are usually much closer off-camera than fans think.
 
JuanAP95X
And he still won’t take responsibility. Perhaps once he settles down and watches the onboards he will. Regardless of knowing wether or not Max was in hospital you shouldn’t celebrate like that when winning by causing a collision. Maybe I’m just too polite, but I don’t think that is what Fangio or Moss would’ve been like.
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Neither driver has anything to apologise for, they were both stubborn in a tiny moment, both could have changed their speed and direction. Max's onboard shows an initial turn in, straightening to give room then a sharp turn in to a space Lewis occupied. The drivers instincts were win or bin it today both of them. Its refreshing to see Lewis not cave in to Max, and makes the next wheel to wheel encounter between them mouth watering.

Lets not forget the opening few corners was the best racing we've seen in a long time...
 
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Outspacer
LOL. So first you'd rather Lewis stooped to Max's level, and has no reason to be the bigger man. Second you'd rather Max backed off from a fight. Make your mind up as it has to apply to both equally.
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Can he not overtake? If Lewis gets past he automatically loses the race?
 
GingerBredMan
Can he not overtake? If Lewis gets past he automatically loses the race?
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That's a strawman - he was never going to get past there - not without forcing Max off track. Had they both stayed on track, Max would've had more speed thanks to a shallower turning radius, like in the sprint.
 
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F1 is the only sport I watch and I’m glad. The amount of garbage I’ve seen online about this situation just puts me off on this sport and spectating many others.

Everyone wanted drama, here we have it.

Zandvoort will definitely be a dumpster fire of fan behavior, it’s just to be expected.

I’m done discussing this race; see you all in two weeks! :cool:
 
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DG_Silva
Has everyone suddenly forgotten the hyper aggression shown by Max towards Lewis at the start of the season? Pushing Lewis clean off the track at Barcelona, and at Imola (slightly different circumstances though).

Max had gone through his entire racing career believing that he has right of way over everyone else, and for a change he came up against a version of Hamilton who has had enough of it.

This was a long time coming, and I personally can't wait to see more of it. Let's see Lewis diving into the first corner especially at Zandvoort, and push Max off the top, see how he likes it.
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I'm suddenly reminded of this video put out by F1 themselves a few years ago about 7 times Max tangled with his rivals.
 
GingerBredMan
Lewis passed two other drivers at the same corner, no crash.
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He needed practice.

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GingerBredMan
Lewis passed two other drivers at the same corner, no crash.
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Never mind that Charles ran for his life, before which Lewis was nowhere near enough alongside to do anything other than damage. Yup, that was a great overtake! /s

Look above - Lewis had already decided to brake and tuck in behind Max, he just did it a tiny fraction too late. The overtake you think Max should've simply allowed wasn't on.
 
GingerBredMan
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Let me preface this by saying that for that particular incident, I think Max should have been given a penalty, and the stewards failed by allowing it.
That said, there's a big difference between that incident and the one we saw today: speed. In Austria, that corner is a low speed corner, and that move was not dangerous at all. It was stupid, and unsportsmanlike, but not dangerous.
Today, they were going way faster into a corner which is known to be dangerous to overtake in.
 
PaMu1337
Let me preface this by saying that for that particular incident, I think Max should have been given a penalty, and the stewards failed by allowing it.
That said, there's a big difference between that incident and the one we saw today: speed. In Austria, that corner is a low speed corner, and that move was not dangerous at all. It was stupid, and unsportsmanlike, but not dangerous.
Today, they were going way faster into a corner which is known to be dangerous to overtake in.
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But notice how Leclerc didn't get a DNF? The fact still remains that Lewis passed two other drivers in the same corner incident free. Setting a standard that drivers can only overtake at certain corners will be the end of motorsport.
 
Whilst I still think HAM was predominantly at fault I do still agree with those who said that both contributed to it by neither backing out when they could have. History has shown us accidents are inevitable when you have two drivers taking that attitude.

Like I said at the time hindsight is obviously rather helpful but given the choice again Max probably would have backed out and stay in the race, but at the time he was probably expecting HAM to do the backing out.

What is important is that there was absolutely no malice or intent from either driver. Yes it was high speed and high risk and resulted in a nasty impact but both drivers knew that when they didn't back out. It could have just as easily ended with HAM also in the barriers, and he knew that.

Racing incident where HAM was more to blame IMO and it seems the stewards had a similar opinion. I perhaps may have gone with a drive through though.
 
PaMu1337
Let me preface this by saying that for that particular incident, I think Max should have been given a penalty, and the stewards failed by allowing it.
That said, there's a big difference between that incident and the one we saw today: speed. In Austria, that corner is a low speed corner, and that move was not dangerous at all. It was stupid, and unsportsmanlike, but not dangerous.
Today, they were going way faster into a corner which is known to be dangerous to overtake in.
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Bottas got handed a penalty for spinning harmlessly by himself in the pit lane endangering absolutely no one, so your argument falls flat on its face if speed/relative danger is the deciding factor.
 
I like both Max and Lewis, but they're not my favorites. It was clear from lights out that neither of them were going to give an inch. Lewis was never going to make the apex to the corner because Max was pushing him all the way inside, and Max was probably driving with his mirrors due to the numerous attacks in the first corners. Max thought Lewis would back down, Lewis thought Max would do the same. Neither did. I don't see how you can think it was deliberate from Lewis to take Max out, this was a racing accident between two drivers that were not going to take no for an answer, something that was bound to happen at some point given how tight the two have battled over the course of various first laps.

Look at the onboard; Max basically forces Lewis to the inside wall, where else was he supposed to go?

Senna taking out Prost was deliberate. Schumacher taking out Hill and Villeneuve was deliberate. This was a racing accident.


Also, shame on McLaren's pitcrew for ruining what might have been another podium for Norris, Bottas clearly had no pace on the hards and I don't think he would have managed to pass him.
 
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Max is a dirty ****. He’s always been a dirty ****.

Today, someone didn’t back out of a confrontation with him, he came off worse and he immediately cry’s like a baby. What Lewis did today was nothing compared to some of the stuff Max has gotten away with.

Loves to give it out, can’t take it.

Horner needs to wind his neck in as well... some of his comments were pathetic.
 
To be fair Max mainlyy seems annoyed at the exuberant celebrations while he was in hospital, he didn't really say much about the incident itself other than general disappointment at being taken out. But maybe that'll change in further comments.

Horner on the other hand, well I dont take any TP seriously. They're paid to defend their team no matter what and hypocrisy comes to them as easily as politicians.
 
Outspacer
Fair point, and Max has certainly picked up some deserved penalties along the way.

But what guilt there is in the past should not be used in any way to form a judgement on this incident.

And the idea that Max "had it coming" is a pretty poor one. It's up to Lewis to be the bigger man.
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PaMu1337
No we haven't, that also wasn't okay, but that doesn't mean it's fine when Lewis does it.

I also want to remind you that it is very much against the rules here to wish a driver to crash (as you do at the end of your post)
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Famine
Yes, it is. No more please, @DG_Silva - Verstappen is already in hospital and it could have been worse, but thankfully wasn't.

I appreciate you weren't necessarily intending to wish for more of the same, but crashes are by their nature unpredictable and potentially deadly, and we've had this rule for many, many years for this reason.
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My sincere apologies to you all, it was never my intention or desire to wish that Max or anyone else was involved in any more crashes of any kind - indeed, my heart leapt when I saw it and my immediate thought was 'That was a big one, I hope he is OK'. Having seen many drivers have their careers or lives ended, nobody ever deserves to be in an accident, ever. I have re-read my comments, and I totally accept how they could have been interpreted in this way, and I am very sorry for any upset or offence I've caused.

My point was purely that Max cannot expect other drivers to give way to him - nobody has a god-given right to monopolise the tarmac, and I hope that Lewis treats Max the way Max has treated him, or at the very least stops being so submissive/passive. In FP sessions, he moans when people are 200m up the road [other drivers complain about this as well, but not as frequently (Kimi aside) or don't appear to get as much air time], and he frequently bullies other drivers. However, there is no disputing he is a sensational driver, probably one of the best the sport has ever seen, and I love to watch him race. Hamilton is not without his flaws either, but rarely fights dirty.

I'm not going to lie, I am a Hamilton fan, but I will quite happily admit when Lewis is at fault. With this incident, I believe that it was a racing incident, preceded by a few close-calls, such as Max turning towards Hamilton on the Wellington Straight and coming very close to colliding (see below), or Max re-joining at turn 1 in a dangerous position. However, this is racing and it appears all is fair game until the consequences are severe. Hopefully, the crash at Copse marks a line in the sand, and we can go back to respectful and fair racing.

1626636949782.png


@Outspacer why should Hamilton have been the bigger man? They were both going for the same position at the same corner, when they turned in together and Lewis was already slowing down to avoid an accident, couldn't Max take a wider line to avoid the collision, like Leclerc did?
 
phillgt2002
F1 is the only sport I watch and I’m glad. The amount of garbage I’ve seen online about this situation just puts me off on this sport and spectating many others.

Everyone wanted drama, here we have it.

Zandvoort will definitely be a dumpster fire of fan behavior, it’s just to be expected.

I’m done discussing this race; see you all in two weeks! :cool:
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I'm done discussing the incident myself. Everyone is firmly in their camps so it's a complete waste of time. Now there were other things that did happen during this race.

  • A fair number of botched pits stops. Not sure if it was the hot weather causing that.
  • Perez is exactly what I thought he would be. He has great moments and then... the past two races. Also, his qualifying form leaves something to be desired.
  • Stating the obvious but Norris is clearly the better driver at McLaren. A shame his pace on the hards wasn't there at all.
  • Could argue for a penalty on the Kimi/Perez incident.
  • Somehow missed that Tsunoda got a point and finished ahead of Gasly.
  • Fight for the 3rd spot in constructors is going to be very interesting.
 
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OutlawQuadrnt
I'm done discussing the incident myself. Everyone is firmly in their camps so it's a complete waste of time. Now there were other things that did happen during this race.

  • A fair number of botched pits stops. Not sure if it was the hot weather causing that.
  • Perez is exactly what I thought he would be. He has great moments and then... the past two races. Also, his qualifying form leaves something to be desired.
  • Stating the obvious but Norris is clearly the better driver at McLaren. A shame his pace on the hards wasn't there at all.
  • Could argue for a penalty on the Kimi/Perez incident.
  • Somehow missed that Tsunoda got a point and finished ahead of Gasly.
  • Fight for the 3rd spot in constructors is going to be very interesting.
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You forget Mazepin finished ahead of Schumacher
 

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