Formula 1 Rolex Großer Preis Von Österreich 2020Formula 1 

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Swagger897

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How they think that is Hamilton's fault is beyond me tbh I don't get it
Albon had his name all over the outside of Hamilton from entry to exit. He owned that corner. I've watched more impressive races where the tires had gone through two blistering cycles and he (LH) still managed to pull a victory out. If anything LH is kicking himself for acting as such, as a 1-3 finish was easily in their grasp. Lewis couldn't accept being passed after he himself failed to get past Bottas earlier in the race.

But it wouldn't be a first race weekend without someone getting shunted and a 1/3 of the field getting DNFs.
 

-Fred-

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I don't think Hamilton did anything particularly wrong in this situation... Albon had the better tires and would have passed Hamilton sooner than later, but he got a bit impatient. It was clearly a case of two cars trying to go through a space made for only one. It's unclear whether his DNF is related to the contact or not, but either way I hope Red Bull and Honda will sort their problems for next week. Will be interesting to see if Verstappen tries the reverse tire strategy again, providing the weather is similar.

Team of the weekend for me is obviously McLaren. Impressive pace in qualifying from Lando, I was a bit sad in the opening stages when both he and Sainz were going backwards, but ultimately couldn't ask for a much better result... Absolutely fantastic last lap by Lando, coming in clutch to snatch that 3rd place away. They just need to work on their early race pace and good results are in the wings.

Mercedes is very fast but seemingly a bit fragile, and still doesn't seem to like the heat. Bottas drove wonderful today, well deserved win.

Impressive drive from Leclerc getting that pig into P2... Vettel is trash, I still don't understand what he was trying with that move on Sainz. He got stuck behind Russell for at least 10 laps after his spin and only finished 7 seconds ahead of Latifi who looked like he was driving his GP2 car from last year... Good retirement, never come back please, I will not miss you.

Absolutely gutted for Russell, had the car stayed together he surely was in the points this weekend. Latifi needs to work on his pace, unless he's actually driving last year's car due to William's financial issues.

Rounding up, Haas might as well retire from next week's race in advance, fantastic job by Ocon after being out of an F1 car for 18+ months, the Tracing Points might not be as scary as we originally thought they were going to be, Alfa Romeo seemingly bought the Haas wheelguns from a few years back, and Alpha Tauri exists...
 

Robin

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Hamilton didn't make much effort at all to steer that car a little bit more into the corner, wasn't surprised whatsoever with the penalty.

Albon really can't catch a break, he is slightly green when it comes to on track battles but the speed and skill is there. Hopefully 3rd time lucky.
 
269
England
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ruzzwald
Hamilton didn't make much effort at all to steer that car a little bit more into the corner, wasn't surprised whatsoever with the penalty.

Albon really can't catch a break, he is slightly green when it comes to on track battles but the speed and skill is there. Hopefully 3rd time lucky.
He made every effort,
That corner is down hill and off camber
You can see from the apex Lewis begins to understeer. Which means if he turns more he understeers more into Albon, and if he brakes he locks up and understeers into albon.
Go on GT sport and try and hold a tight line while braking deep into that corner it's pretty hard
He held a tight line and didn't even get on the throttle you can hear it
Whereas Albon had room on the outside

It really wasn't anything Lewis did, because He braked late and still had plenty of room for Albon on the outside

If you think Lewis took him out there your really mistaken
Albon pinched him towards the apex and just pinned him to the inside of the corner but just didn't account for the tyre disadvantage Hamilton had but he wouldn't have been able to judge where he was once he was a long side
 

Racing_Miku

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Well that was a good race yesterday! Really enjoyable return of the F1 for me although I never expected it to turn out the way it did.

Not going to mention Hamilton because I think that's already been discussed but in my view I'd say the FIA acted at least on the result, for me I consider it to be a racing incident between the two as previous post has outlined, it's always very difficult on the side by side to judge where a car is but the deed has been done now.

A few things struck me this weekend during the race, Valtteri Bottas was pretty much faultless in his driving and I was impressed by his overall driving and his control at the restarts as the pressure I am sure from Hamilton having a go at him would have been quite intense but he held well and in my view deserved the win despite the car troubles.

The Ferrari well that's been talked about a lot, Sebastian was clearly unhappy and LeClerc landed some good luck to get the 2nd place.

I was pleased for McLaren though since they are my favourite team over the years and I hope this is good signs of a return to some sort of form with Lando's 3rd place and 5th for Norris.

Kimi loosing his car wheel though must have been quite scary and it was a little worrying to see it roll at such speed but thankfully no marshals or people near the area and Racing Point look like they may be a wildcard challenger!

Will be very interesting to see in the 2nd race if any changes given all the curb incidents and reliability problems in the 1st race, roll on Sunday!
 
327
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I'm going to agree that the crash between Albon and Hamilton is a racing incident more than anything but the fault still lies on Lewis.


It's basically a driver error, in no way intentional of course. At around 0:25 in the video, where Lewis is roughly in the middle of the corner, he hasn't actually touched the apex, which lies on the kerb, possibly due to Jame's team orders earlier in the race regarding this exact issue. Because of that, Lewis wasn't using the ideal line, making his car more prone to understeer and thus not turning at all, despite him using almost 90 degree lock. The racing line Albon was using was totally fine, Lewis had plenty of space to the right in fact but due to the reasons above, he couldn't make use of it , thus resulting to the accident.

The main reason i believe the penalty was issued was that it was an easily avoidable error. Hamilton was given team orders to avoid the kerbs, but in this particular situation an exception could be made. The car wasn't completely out of control and there was nothing wrong with Albon's line, basically there was no real reason for the incident to happen.
 

MatskiMonk

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It's basically a driver error, in no way intentional of course.

Mr "Nobody overtakes me on the outside, nobody" probably didn't intend to punt Albon off, but I doubt he intended to leave him enough room to get by either. He does raise his hand almost immediately as if to say "WTF" as though he wasn't expecting contact, but at the same time, he's run enough people wide on exit over the years to secure passes, it wouldn't surprise me at all if he considers it fair game as a defensive tactic too.

Watching the onboard video of his FP3 shows that he certainly does have more lock available through that corner, the argument that he would have just understeered into Albon is speculative, maybe he would, maybe he wouldn't, but it seems fairly clear it wasn't in his interests to even try... if that's what the FIA have seen looking at the telemetry I could see why it was a penalty... Albon's effectively got the move done and is safe into the next corner had Hamilton's front left not come into contact with Albon's rear right.
 
269
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ruzzwald
Mr "Nobody overtakes me on the outside, nobody" probably didn't intend to punt Albon off, but I doubt he intended to leave him enough room to get by either. He does raise his hand almost immediately as if to say "WTF" as though he wasn't expecting contact, but at the same time, he's run enough people wide on exit over the years to secure passes, it wouldn't surprise me at all if he considers it fair game as a defensive tactic too.

Watching the onboard video of his FP3 shows that he certainly does have more lock available through that corner, the argument that he would have just understeered into Albon is speculative, maybe he would, maybe he wouldn't, but it seems fairly clear it wasn't in his interests to even try... if that's what the FIA have seen looking at the telemetry I could see why it was a penalty... Albon's effectively got the move done and is safe into the next corner had Hamilton's front left not come into contact with Albon's rear right.
If you want to see what running someone wide looks like go to Austria last year with verstappen or Albon on the first laps agaisnt Hamilton
There's a good 2 or 3 metres of track for Alex he didn't run him wide
He put his hand up because he felt he couldn't do much more to avoid it, and he felt he left enough room
 
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I was always proud of how motorsports fans were true admirers of the sport and in no way blind fans, like some in football, locked in a binary choice between being either lovers or haters of their club of choice. I get bored with arguments where it is apparent that the reasoning of each individual is largely (if not solely) dependant on how much he likes or dislikes a driver.

This to say that to me it is obvious and without question that this was an avoidable contact, that it was up to Hamilton to avoid it and that he could avoid it, if he so decided.

Was it malicious? I dont think so, Ham is not like that, just a hard but fair driver. But I have to roll my eyes when I read here that Albon should have been more careful. And to that I say: "NO, Hamilton should have been more careful"

A fair penalty, even if it wont give Albon a place back. And a warning for all drivers, a good one I'd say and that's- also- what penalties are for.
 
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Jubby

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If you want to see what running someone wide looks like go to Austria last year with verstappen or Albon on the first laps agaisnt Hamilton
There's a good 2 or 3 metres of track for Alex he didn't run him wide
Which he doesn't have to use, as he's ahead.
He put his hand up because he felt he couldn't do much more to avoid it, and he felt he left enough room
See, what bothers me about the incident is that we know Lewis was avoiding the kerbs. We know understeer is prevalent in that corner, especially with the tight off-apex line... so Lewis knows that, too. He has to, he's a great driver. So, what do you do when you're pinched and want to avoid a collision/off due to understeer? Slow down just a bit more initially to make it through. His desire to push the issue was his undoing.
 

MatskiMonk

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There's a good 2 or 3 metres of track for Alex he didn't run him wide

Albon's on course to take a sensible amount of kerb, but didn't get that far because of the contact with Lewis. You'll give Lewis the benefit of the doubt on not having the grip to turn any tighter in avoidance of Albon, but you won't give Albon benefit of the doubt that he couldn't (having already gotten big overlap on Lewis), unwind a bit of lock to put him on the kerbs sooner - to give Lewis more space, and then, in that position put more lock on than he had originally, to actually make the corner?

He put his hand up because he felt he couldn't do much more to avoid it, and he felt he left enough room

It's one or the other, he either couldn't do any more, or didn't feel he had to. If he couldn't, he's understeered into a car over taking him, if he could, then he's chosen not to and caused an avoidable incident. I'm guessing the FIA looked at it and felt he could do more, or at very least, could have done more to prevent understeering into a car that had mostly gotten past him.

I'm really struggling to imagine that had the situation been reversed, that Hamilton fans wouldn't have been calling it as Albon failing to yield a position and trying too hard to defend a lost corner.
 

GroupB

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I get bored with arguments where it is apparent that the reasoning of each individual is largely (if not solely) dependant on how much he likes or dislikes a driver.

This thread must have provided you with a nice nap then :lol:
 
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ruzzwald
Which he doesn't have to use, as he's ahead.

See, what bothers me about the incident is that we know Lewis was avoiding the kerbs. We know understeer is prevalent in that corner, especially with the tight off-apex line... so Lewis knows that, too. He has to, he's a great driver. So, what do you do when you're pinched and want to avoid a collision/off due to understeer? Slow down just a bit more initially to make it through. His desire to push the issue was his undoing.
The reason why this doesn't work is because he only found out he couldn't hold the position whilst braking
At that point he has his amount of speed he knows Albon will be ahead so he just keeps tight
He never pushed Albon out he was conceeding the position
Basically I think albon assumed he would use the inside kerb because then it wouldn't even look like a close move Albon gave space and so did Lewis
Just misjudgement so racing incident to tbh
 
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For anyone wondering what a pass executed on the outside in T4 should have looked like, check this video out (skip to 4:01, can only view on YouTube because F1). Compared to Alex, Charles is a little further ahead on corner entry, but on exit, it's nearly exactly the same as Alex V Lewis.

 

Swagger897

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For anyone wondering what a pass executed on the outside in T4 should have looked like, check this video out (skip to 4:01, can only view on YouTube because F1). Compared to Alex, Charles is a little further ahead on corner entry, but on exit, it's nearly exactly the same as Alex V Lewis.

If not worse due to locking and going wider than anticipated. I'm also not buying the "stay off the kerbs" excuse either. I get that they were told to save the cars but at the same time Lewis took the easy way out, rather than racing him for position he blocked him resulting in the crash. Your video proves exactly that. Had Hamilton ceded the position it would've been a clean pass just like Charles.
 

Racing_Miku

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Well Ferrari bringing forward some of their plans for upgrades to the car to this weekend's race rather than waiting until Hungary so will be interesting to see if this makes any difference in the qualifying/race.

Source https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/53309834

Let's see if they can pull an 'uno reverse card' and make the car work this time!
 

DK

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I don't see how you guys can possibly see the incident with Albon/Hamilton could be anything other than a penalty, Albon pretty much had it made and got sent off, we saw the stewards give time penalties the same severity for incidents where they don't get sent off to last place and can keep racing (Canada 2019, and yes i still believe it is B.S)
Probably a combination of listening to too much Sky and thinking GTS's penalties are fair.
 

LeGeNd-1

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Re: HAM vs ALB, I've seen this situation so many times in GT Sport, on this particular corner (and many other similar corners). Been on the outside and inside. Have passed and have been passed cleanly or sent to Narnia. Basically, in any close racing situation, there are 2 types of drivers which will determine the outcome:

1) I'm going to place my car anywhere I want, and it's up to the OTHER driver to not crash into me.

2) I'm going to assume everyone is Maldonado/Grosjean, and I'm going to take responsibility and AVOID contact at all costs.

If both are type 1 drivers, chance of contact is almost certain. If both are type 2 drivers, then you'll have an epic close race. If one is type 1 and the other is type 2, that's where other factors come in. Now Lewis is probably one of the best wheel to wheel racers this generation, and it's very rarely that he makes contact (ironically, the last 2 have both been Albon). Albon is a young driver, and clearly he wants to impress and wants that first podium/win, but I also feel he's one of the safer drivers on the grid.

Now the incident itself, HAM is clearly outgunned here, being on the deteriorating harder tyres. Albon is going to get past him sooner or later. But he wouldn't be a 6x WDC if he just lets people sail pass, so he has every right to defend. Albon on the other hand, knew he has a much faster car at that point and could have waited another lap, or another safer corner to pass. He still has 10 laps IIRC and he could have easily caught up to Bottas even then. Unfortunately, Albon forced the pass, and Lewis forced the defence. In a non open wheel car they would've rubbed fenders and moved on. But in this case their tyres overlapped and Albon goes sbinalla.

Could Albon have moved more to the left and given Lewis more space? Yes, but as you all know if you've driven here in a sim that kerb is super slippery under power and it ends quickly, which means Albon could end up spinning and crashing into Lewis, or understeering into the grass (exactly like Valtteri in quali).

Could Lewis have overslowed the car on entry, so he doesn't run as wide on exit? Yes and I believe with all his experience he should know this was already a lost corner AND he should also account for the extra understeer from being on dirty line/tighter line/loss of downforce from being close to another car. But as I said above, he wouldn't be a 6x WDC with that kind of mindset. Having said that knowing his history with Albon in Brazil, he should be extra careful not to do a repeat.

So it's a tough decision. I can see both viewpoints of penalty vs racing incident. At the end of the day we can analyze all we want but these things happen in a split second and I always go by my gut feeling. Personally I would say 51:49 more in favour of penalty, taking into account everything I said above plus because Albon's car is already more than half past Lewis when the contact occurred, so really that "battle" is truly over for Lewis. In any case, we all know Albon's engine expired so it doesn't matter in the end, but at least we get a Norris podium and a bigger points advantage to Bottas to make this season (hopefully) not be another Lewis washout.

Just my 2 cents as an armchair "expert" :P
 
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virtualnao
Vettel also shared his opinion: "I don't think Lewis wanted to hit Alex but of course it's his fault. Alex did a good job. It's not easy to overtake in that corner so he had courage and did everything correctly. I think the penalty was justified."

 
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