Forza 6 News Incoming?

[Zer0]

Thats the thing, you are assuming they are on the edge. There will always be things here and there that they were never fully used to, that they will be able to optimize the more and more they get used to it. an Example; you did a rush job filling up that container with boxes, probably not making the most of the set-up but pretty much just getting the job done. Eventually you realize all these different area's you could have saved room if you had just arranged them differently in certain sections, and in turn allowing you to actually have fit more then what you originally had fit. It will not require the original amount of time that it took to actually fill the trailer, because all your doing is rearranging some things.

You are saying the same that I said, is just that you think that they could pack safely all the things at the time, resolve all the issues, etc and I don't. Time will tell.

Now that its all laid out and they have a full view of the container, they aren't redoing a container, just simply rearranging. With the saved space, they are introducing new "boxes."

Every item in the new boxes will need to be researched and manufactured first and their load size will be bigger than any of the previous boxes, so those old boxes would need also an inside item reallocation and design changes to optimize their packing size in order to leave free the needed room for the new BIG boxes.

I'm unsure how upgrading from 30fps to 60fps is downgrading? You admit they probably can. They aren't developing anything in the FH2 environment, more so borrowing features. They are sharing more then a name, if thats what you're insinuating.

When you lock the same engine at double of the framerate under the same hardware, you have half of the processing power per every frame to draw graphics.

Just remember, that this development probably wasn't just recently started. What if they've actually been working on it all this time, and are actually waiting for it to be optimized? They could have been working on it for 5 years already, and we wouldn't know. So theres a possibility that you can think about.

Yes, that possibility can exist (along many others) but is not reallistic if considering all the problems they had to run FM5 alone without any of those features.

Contrary? to an extent. They both are just fundamentally driving games. They share alot in common, that is why I'm confused as to why you think things cant be borrowed from each other. You say they just share a name, if thats the case where did playground get all the models for their vehicles? I doubt they started from scratch. If that was the case, they wouldnt have thrown Forza in the title. If that can happen one direction, it can happen in the other. Recycled and patched? Thats all every iteration of any game isn't it? They have a base, and they improve upon it.

Never said that can't be borrowed, I said what I said. Each game should be custom coded to fit their needs within the hardware. The only reason to share parts should be to trade quality to speed up the development. Optimizing will be worst, graphics will be worst and some features could not be tailored in the same way as a brand new researched game with all the features running since day one. Considering the heavy graphical features to be implemented, that would be the worst way to do the things, altough faster. Maybe you are happy with that?

Lol, no it does not mean less glitches, and I'd be willing to bet that it would introduce just as much problems. Trial and error my friend. Every game goes through it. You talk about wanting it all the time, but now you dont because possible problems might occur?

Again, with half of the framerate you have double the processing power per frame. So basically more time to compute better graphics with less restrictions.

Right now its hard for me to watch that video, my laptop isn't the best so it gets stutters just on its own. Still, Like I said, X being more powerful doesn't make Y obsolete.

Never meant to say that was obsolete, just more difficult to obtain the same results than in other systems.

Can you show me how you came to the conclusion that FM5 is in fact at the edge of its capacity? Where did you gather the info, and what articles showing proof of this? I would be interested in reading that.

Sure. There are many tells to know if a game is running on the edge, aside of any obvious framerate slowdown.

In FM5: Lack of antialiasing, 30 fps mirrors, lack of anisotropic filtering, very low particle effects (separated smoke puffs that stay on track less time than in FM4), slowdowns when the simplified particle effects are put on stress (example: many cars spraying smoke at once in out of tracks excursions), using the same tricks to save resources during gameplay than in FM4 (AI cars with none of the effects of the player car: real time reflections, self shadows, "blacked" interiors, etc).

And there is also the notable downgrade from the E3 demo:

The full history with details, more examples and a list of graphical effects that were downgraded from the Xbone devkit to make run the full game at 60 fps in the console:

http://www.cinemablend.com/games/Forza-5-Xbox-One-Graphics-Downgraded-From-E3-Build-60711.html
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=90611423&postcount=203

I understand youre not very optimistic about it(or is that just your anti-everything Forza related peaking through?) but like mentioned, you assumption is if they only started development on that after Forza 5, which I would be isn't the case.

Believe or not I'm being reallistic in my expectations, otherwise will mean that I'm ignoring many Forza facts, interviews and their progression over the years in order to dream about things that are unlikely to happen. And for reference, I'm waiting for some sort of weather or dynamic time in FM6 and I'm expecting 60 locked frames all the time, what I'm not expecting are those features being available everywhere and being of a very high quality except if they restrict many other things when are running. This time they need those characteristics in FM6, no more excuses, or will be not good for the series.

I'm hopeful.

Ok. Let's now bring some facts about the extra core mith that will upgrade greatly the Xbone performance.

• Is a trade that the developers will need to choose. If used, FM6 will not have head tracking with kinect.

• Isn't a full extra core (6 old cores + the new 1 core), just the 80%-50% of that core can be used as is still a shared core with the system and the resources fluctuate. The safest usage for an stable environment seems to be %50. So, that in the console will mean around 10% more CPU performance, being generous. Is more a hack with its own problems than a planned upgrade meant to run game coding.

• All the CPU cores performance combined are just a minimal part of the total power force in the Xbone, a theorical 10% more of computing power in the CPU will have an impact almost ridiculous compared with the GPU performance or the total system graphics performance.

And now I ask you, how are you certain that T10 will deliver and FM6 will not have any of the issues you are asking and discussing? what exactly are you expecting in FM6 regarding new features and FM5 differences? technically and graphics related.

 

[Speedster911]

They really killed the mazda 787b downshift should. Apparently it's the way the game now simulates the shifts that's the issue (or something like that)

I don't think they lack oomph as fm4 had quite exaggerated sounds which often didn't even sound like the real car. I would definitely say that fh2 has the best audio of the series. The new Amg 6.3 sample is killer, and new additions like the capri and metro 6r4 are audio porn

FM3 sounds were decent but left a lot to be desired.

FM4 sounds were fine as long as ou'd "tune" your sound system for it and keep the game's master volume a little lower than 100%. Once of the best sounding games I've played on any console to date. Engine revs, exhaust rumble, turbo whoosh and whistle, all there.

FM5 did not manage to make the leap in sound FM4 did from 3.

 

[GranTurismo guy]

FM3 sounds were decent but left a lot to be desired.

FM4 sounds were fine as long as ou'd "tune" your sound system for it and keep the game's master volume a little lower than 100%. Once of the best sounding games I've played on any console to date. Engine revs, exhaust rumble, turbo whoosh and whistle, all there.

FM5 did not manage to make the leap in sound FM4 did from 3.

In terms of making many cars sound like the actual real thing, fm5 was a much greater leap than 3 to 4. Supercharger and turbo noises are also fantastic now. And tunnel echo.

 

[KRATOS8MS]

a hint for Porsche in FM6?
http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=163943536

 

[SimTourist]

The rumor is that EA's deal with Porsche runs out this year. But nothing solid on that yet.

 

[yabiggoose]

We can only hope.

 

[ImaRobot]

You are saying the same that I said, is just that you think that they could pack safely all the things at the time, resolve all the issues, etc and I don't. Time will tell.

Then you agree. By rearranging and optimizing they are freeing up much more, allowing them to do more in the process.

Every item in the new boxes will need to be researched and manufactured first and their load size will be bigger than any of the previous boxes, so those old boxes would need also an inside item reallocation and design changes to optimize their packing size in order to leave free the needed room for the new BIG boxes.

It seems you're just grasping now. Why would these boxes be any bigger then whats already available?

When you lock the same engine at double of the framerate under the same hardware, you have half of the processing power per every frame to draw graphics.

Again, how is upgrading, a downgrade?

Yes, that possibility can exist (along many others) but is not reallistic if considering all the problems they had to run FM5 alone without any of those features.

Again, what problems?

Never said that can't be borrowed, I said what I said. Each game should be custom coded to fit their needs within the hardware. The only reason to share parts should be to trade quality to speed up the development.

Thats exactly my point.

Optimizing will be worst, graphics will be worst and some features could not be tailored in the same way as a brand new researched game with all the features running since day one. Considering the heavy graphical features to be implemented, that would be the worst way to do the things, altough faster. Maybe you are happy with that?

How exactly would it be worse if there has already been research into it? I'm not quite sure how you came to the conclusion that it would be worse, just because its borrowed. Thats the point of optimizing, to make it better. I'm happy with them working on things, I never said I wanted things half assed.

Again, with half of the framerate you have double the processing power per frame. So basically more time to compute better graphics with less restrictions.

This doesn't answer anything about what you quoted me on.

Never meant to say that was obsolete, just more difficult to obtain the same results than in other systems.

It's exactly what you seem to mean, though. More difficult? I'm not so sure that would be the correct term. A GTR gets to 60mph faster then a 350z, does it mean that it's difficult for it to get to 60? No.

Sure. There are many tells to know if a game is running on the edge, aside of any obvious framerate slowdown.

What frame rate slow down?

In FM5: Lack of antialiasing, 30 fps mirrors, lack of anisotropic filtering, very low particle effects (separated smoke puffs that stay on track less time than in FM4), slowdowns when the simplified particle effects are put on stress (example: many cars spraying smoke at once in out of tracks excursions), using the same tricks to save resources during gameplay than in FM4 (AI cars with none of the effects of the player car: real time reflections, self shadows, "blacked" interiors, etc).

I've noticed that as long as your not super close to the TV and sit at a reasonable distance then the antialiasing isn't to bad. There are some slight jaggies, but nothing to write home over. Could it be improved? Yes, I do agree.

30fps mirrors and smoke seems to be a design choice, as I'm sure you'd rather have those resources that where used on the mirrors, elsewhere, no? There is no need for them to be so high, as long as they can correctly project what is going on. Smoke seems to be a problem with every game, and even on high strung PC's it can be a problem if you intentionally get 16 people to do a burnout.

I had to google Anisotropic Filtering. That is interesting, but I'm not all to bothered about it. It wouldn't seem to be as useful in a racing game, say compared to an open world RPG.

As for the less detailed AI cars, I dont think that's a route that any game publisher is willing to take at this point. Although to bring up a point, if they have blacked interiors, then why is cockpit view allowed in replays? I've never really looked at the interiors of other cars as I was racing, but I'd be willing to bet that they are not black if you are able to actually use their cockpit view. I'll have to test that out.

And there is also the notable downgrade from the E3 demo:

The full history with details, more examples and a list of graphical effects that were downgraded from the Xbone devkit to make run the full game at 60 fps in the console:

http://www.cinemablend.com/games/Forza-5-Xbox-One-Graphics-Downgraded-From-E3-Build-60711.html
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=90611423&postcount=203

This is why I hate early game trailers in general, as most any game amps up the teaser's trailers, and then don't deliver. This isn't isolated to T10, but the gaming industry as a whole. Still though, my question is still up. What tests have been done to show that The console is pushed to the edge?

Believe or not I'm being reallistic in my expectations, otherwise will mean that I'm ignoring many Forza facts, interviews and their progression over the years in order to dream about things that are unlikely to happen. And for reference, I'm waiting for some sort of weather or dynamic time in FM6 and I'm expecting 60 locked frames all the time,

I am too, it's just that I dont have a history of being anti-forza, so that's probably why I seem more hopeful than you. Still though, you gracefully accept that PD can not do it, but its funny that you put them on such a high horse

what I'm not expecting are those features being available everywhere and being of a very high quality except if they restrict many other things when are running. This time they need those characteristics in FM6, no more excuses, or will be not good for the series.

A practice that you should be used to by now Still I agree, and I'll wait for FM6.

Ok. Let's now bring some facts about the extra core mith that will upgrade greatly the Xbone performance.

• Is a trade that the developers will need to choose. If used, FM6 will not have head tracking with kinect.

• Isn't a full extra core (6 old cores + the new 1 core), just the 80%-50% of that core can be used as is still a shared core with the system and the resources fluctuate. The safest usage for an stable environment seems to be %50. So, that in the console will mean around 10% more CPU performance, being generous. Is more a hack with its own problems than a planned upgrade meant to run game coding.

• All the CPU cores performance combined are just a minimal part of the total power force in the Xbone, a theorical 10% more of computing power in the CPU will have an impact almost ridiculous compared with the GPU performance or the total system graphics performance.

Nothing to do with the topic, but more so seems like trying to take a hit at Xbox. I didnt even know Forza had head tracking, though. Thanks for that info though.

And now I ask you, how are you certain that T10 will deliver and FM6 will not have any of the issues you are asking and discussing? what exactly are you expecting in FM6 regarding new features and FM5 differences? technically and graphics related.

Certain? Considering I've said

I would certainly hope

I'm hopeful.

I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion. You seem to be arguing with me because you think I'm talking about some sort of certainty, and makes sense since you're trying to push on it pretty hard. The only thing I was certain on, that was just quoting you was them doing 60fps on their game.

 

[GranTurismo guy]

^^ are you two still squabbling?

 

[RacerPaul]

I've had many an argument on the net, in the past. Haven't done it for years now, wasn't worth the aggro

 

[UKMikey]

I've had many an argument on the net, in the past. Haven't done it for years now, wasn't worth the aggro

Yes you have.

Spoiler

Just kidding.

 

[espeed623]

Oh my god. Let this Porsche exclusivity rumor be true. ;_;

 

[phillgt2002]

^^ are you two still squabbling?

My brain can't take much more Forza related text. I'm outta here for now.

 

[RacerPaul]

Oh my god. Let this Porsche exclusivity rumor be true. ;_;

Porsches in FM6? That'd be so, so epic I often play FM4 still, to drive all those beauties from the Porsche dlc

 

[HAL20XX]

Hopefully this means Porsches in all racing games.

 

[GranTurismo guy]

I hope we don't stop seeing the rufs though e.g the yellowbird etc

 

[espeed623]

If I can be honest, I actually simultaneously like and dislike how relatively quiet the newsroom has been lately regarding Forza 6 news. But I really hope we get some sort of pre-E3 sneak preview... The wait is killing me!!

 

[SimTourist]

If I can be honest, I actually simultaneously like and dislike how relatively quiet the newsroom has been lately regarding Forza 6 news. But I really hope we get some sort of pre-E3 sneak preview... The wait is killing me!!

Just a couple weeks left, hang in there mate)

 

[RandomCarGuy17]

It would be fantastic to see Porsche return to the franchise. If that article is true, I will be truly excited for Forza 6 and I'm already excited for FM6 having the new high-performance Fords.

 

[Pootis]

Oh my god. Let this Porsche exclusivity rumor be true. ;_;

That would be amazing as every racing game could finally have Porsches and not just Need for Speed (unless EA decides to renew it).

 

[VXR]

I don't think Porsche would be silly enough to renew it as exclusive, given the hoops they had to go through with T10 for the Forza 4 expansion.

 

[imported_traind]

While I certainly hope the exclusive license is ending, Forza 6 may have Porsche's regardless.

The same deal they did before in Forza 4 might be available with fewer hoops to get through this time as the EA COO used to be a Microsoft executive. And Microsoft is trying hard to claw current gen market share back from Sony's early lead so might be more prone to pay EA for the license to lure a few more medium to late adopters their way.

 

[Tornado]

The rumor is that EA's deal with Porsche runs out this year.

Blunted somewhat by how similar such rumors come up literally every time rumors for a new Forza or GT game start swirling around.

 

[GranTurismo guy]

Blunted somewhat by how similar such rumors come up literally every time rumors for a new Forza or GT game start swirling around.

The rumour pretty much pops up every year

 

[Eunosthedeer]

Porsche would definitely be a welcome edition to the game.

I even say this as someone who isn't really a huge fan of them..

With that said I would also like Ruf to remain in the game

 

[GranTurismo guy]

Just a random thought, do any of you guys think the regular GT350 will be in FM6 alongside the R?

 

[Fat Tyre]

When is E3 happening anyway?

 

[McLaren]

Just a random thought, do any of you guys think the regular GT350 will be in FM6 alongside the R?

Given that the 350 (well, the R at least) was one of the 4 major performance cars Ford just released alongside the FM6's cover car, I would assume T10 would be on good enough terms to model it in some form.

 

[GranTurismo guy]

Given that the 350 (well, the R at least) was one of the 4 major performance cars Ford just released alongside the FM6's cover car, I would assume T10 would be on good enough terms to model it in some form.

We know the R is coming, I meant do you think the normal 350 will be there too.

 

[RacerPaul]

Cool pic 👍 I'm a bit behind the times at the moment, are all those sporty Fords going to be in FM6?

 

[Fat Tyre]

Cool cars but the blue is a bit lame for such attractive cars, that ford GT should have a sexier colour like vibrant red.