Forza Motorsport General Discussion Thread

[PJTierney]

Yeah the model is exactly the same, but at least we should start with a decent amount of cars, 500-600 or more.

Is that what a game like this needs though?

The vibe I’m getting from communication about this game so far is that it is more focused on competition and competitive balance, and having several hundred cars gets in the way of that. “Built not bought” was a phrase that was used. Then again, the inclusion of road cars in the second reveal has me doubting that.

With a smaller and more curated car collection, more focus can be placed on each in terms of physics, gameplay balance and more.

In other words, I personally think Horizon should be the sandbox with every kind of car under the sun, and Motorsport should be the best of the best, finely tuned for the most enjoyable racing experience possible. Anything less than that is merely Forza Motorsport 7 with extra steps.

 

[McLaren]

I definitely wouldn’t be expecting a giant roster at launch. Models may be the same, but there’s always licensing issues T10/MS may run into to bring a car back.

Then, as PJ said, they’ve talked about focusing the game on Motorsport/Track days, so I would expect many of the “oddballs” to get cut or become cars suited to the Horizon series.

 

[Jezza819]

I think accurate classes or divisions means more to me than overall number of cars do. Here's a division mostly of race cars but wait, here's also some road going models thrown in as well. That's what I don't want to see.

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

I think accurate classes or divisions means more to me than overall number of cars do. Here's a division mostly of race cars but wait, here's also some road going models thrown in as well. That's what I don't want to see.

I'm not too sure if that'll be the case given that gameplay trailer itself had us seeing M8 GTE racing against a 330 P4, although that could have just been a placeholder for trailer.

We won't know for sure until the hype machine revs up properly... which will be sooner rather than later, I hope.

 

[TokoTurismo]

I'm not too sure if that'll be the case given that gameplay trailer itself had us seeing M8 GTE racing against a 330 P4, although that could have just been a placeholder for trailer.

That was just for the showcase, so no need to worry about that.

 

[SimTourist]

Is that what a game like this needs though?

The vibe I’m getting from communication about this game so far is that it is more focused on competition and competitive balance, and having several hundred cars gets in the way of that. “Built not bought” was a phrase that was used. Then again, the inclusion of road cars in the second reveal has me doubting that.

With a smaller and more curated car collection, more focus can be placed on each in terms of physics, gameplay balance and more.

In other words, I personally think Horizon should be the sandbox with every kind of car under the sun, and Motorsport should be the best of the best, finely tuned for the most enjoyable racing experience possible. Anything less than that is merely Forza Motorsport 7 with extra steps.

So the series has already been on a steep decline sales and popularity wise, and you want them to go the more hardcore route and alienate all casual fans? I don't think microsoft would allow them to. The whole reboot thing is a joke anyway, a marketing trick because Forza 8 sounds like more of the same, but by all accounts FM 2023 is more of the same but with some long overdue minor features added, like qualification lol, dynamic ToD, well it's literally the last sim on the market to get it but they hype it up like its some breakthrough unique feature. In general racing games are declining and I don't see FM23 capturing a new audience.

 

[T0MMY3688]

I don't think FM has much to lose for going slightly more to hardcore side while FH has been taking up all the casual attention. Considering more casual theme track games hasn't been doing well either, like Grid Legends and pCARS 3 (pCARS 3 is most likely crap name and bad advertising fault).

A smaller but more focused car list could be good for FM, the physics has been crap for the last 2 games I played and needed a huge improvement anyway.

 

[nukleabomb]

I don't see the benefits in going more hardcore. The people who want it be hard-core will naturally compare it to iRacing, RF2, ACC etc. Which obviously FM won't be able to compare with, because it has to play on consoles with pretty high graphics and resolution along with a controller first fan base. The hard-core crowd obviously will prefer all the proper Sims to this game anyway. So there's not point in solely focusing on sim crowd.

FM should be aiming at its direct competition, i.e. GT7 and, I guess, Project Cars 3, and balance sim and arcade while not forgetting that it is a 'Game'. It also has to attract casuals since it's on Gamepass (and hence is also live service). It also cannot skimp on content. Most fans waiting for 6 ish years for a new FM won't be satisfied with a measly 200-300 cars. Just look at the content related uproar caused during GT7's launch.

 

[T0MMY3688]

I don't see the benefits in going more hardcore. The people who want it be hard-core will naturally compare it to iRacing, RF2, ACC etc. Which obviously FM won't be able to compare with, because it has to play on consoles with pretty high graphics and resolution along with a controller first fan base. The hard-core crowd obviously will prefer all the proper Sims to this game anyway. So there's not point in solely focusing on sim crowd.

Not expecting it to go iRacing and RF2 level of hardcore that is best played with a wheel but it could pick up elements from those, FM7 was too barebones for a track game that still claim it is realistic. It could use a better and more realistic physcis, also bring in basic race day elements like practice and qualifying. A better multi class system to replicate Le Mans is not a bad addition either. Better car classing will be great too, I never really like the weird mix of car classes in FM games.

FM could use quite a lot of their elements without turning into a hardcore sim.

FM should be aiming at its direct competition, i.e. GT7 and, I guess, Project Cars 3, and balance sim and arcade while not forgetting that it is a 'Game'. It also has to attract casuals since it's on Gamepass (and hence is also live service). It also cannot skimp on content. Most fans waiting for 6 ish years for a new FM won't be satisfied with a measly 200-300 cars. Just look at the content related uproar caused during GT7's launch.

I don't think content will be skim, considering the amount of content that FM7 had. Assuming it is going for a more focused route with just race cars, sports cars, supercars and track cars, there is still a lot of cars left once you thrown out all the SUV, limousine and off road trucks content.

 

[SestoScudo]

It seems we are going back to the roots with Fm1 to fm4.

No whacky cars only serious ones.

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

It seems we are going back to the roots with Fm1 to fm4.

No whacky cars only serious ones.

I think it's more about finding a consistent tone and sticking to it, rather than just wacky car vs. serious car dichotomy. Many cars in Grid Legends and even Automobilista 2 are some seriously wacky stuff considering the average racing game standards but they fit the game nicely regardless. I think that's what Forza Motorsport should be aiming for.

 

[McLaren]

FM should be aiming at its direct competition, i.e. GT7 and, I guess, Project Cars 3, and balance sim and arcade while not forgetting that it is a 'Game'. It also has to attract casuals since it's on Gamepass (and hence is also live service). It also cannot skimp on content. Most fans waiting for 6 ish years for a new FM won't be satisfied with a measly 200-300 cars. Just look at the content related uproar caused during GT7's launch.

I must have missed that in all the warranted uproar over GT7's microtransactions, but from what I can see, it's not like GT7 didn't launch with a large amount over Sport. Sport apparently launched with only 168 cars where as GT7 came through with over 420 at launch. 338 where carried over according to an article here, which would mean close to 100 cars were added to their roster. Pretty certain I saw most of the focus surrounding content around the lack of new tracks, but never the less, GT7 did add over Sport unlike what T10 is hinting at.

If that makes fans upset that the car list gets cut down, that's unfortunate but again, it won't be like T10 didn't already insinuate that would be happening. Depending on what gets cut, it might even make some happy; there were definitely debates over why many cars got added in DLCs over the years through different Motorsport titles & how they had no place in the game.

 

[PiotrGT]

It seems we are going back to the roots with Fm1 to fm4.

No whacky cars only serious ones.

I really liked how in FM4 we were starting the game with some very regular cars. Those were silly but not because they were put in the game just to be silly (like Peel P50 or Reliant Robin) but more because they were so regular, very basic and slow. I think cars like these would make for some fun grassroots racing on narrow and technical circuits - perfect for the beginning of the game. They could go with either modern basic cars (like they did up to FM4), older (but not rare) sports cars or a mix of both. This bit at the beginning of the game where you're struggling in a slow car is really missing in modern Forza titles.

 

[Chikane_GTR]

Question what has been the talk about the physics? or they going for a more real sim feel or simcade like past forza games?

 

[Northstar]

Question what has been the talk about the physics? or they going for a more real sim feel or simcade like past forza games?

Sim, although I wouldn't expect it to venture too far from the "simcade" feel you get from GT and previous Forza's.

 

[ICEYOU3]

Forza's version of Seca looks so much more lively than GT7's.

 

[nukleabomb]

"Finally, FM has come back to Forza Monthly"

 

[willbsn13]

"Finally, FM has come back to Forza Monthly"


View attachment 1190883

Is that a Dan Greenawalt sighting? Must have been a hot minute since he was on Forza Monthly. Very excited to hear what they'll talk about - would it too much to ask for a little snippet of new gameplay, or even just a couple of screenshots? Pls Dan, bless us!

 

[MS8]

Would be great if Dan announce that there will be a beta next month... a man can dream hahaha

 

[SestoScudo]

Is that a Dan Greenawalt sighting? Must have been a hot minute since he was on Forza Monthly. Very excited to hear what they'll talk about - would it too much to ask for a little snippet of new gameplay, or even just a couple of screenshots? Pls Dan, bless us!

Turning gamers into car lovers and car lovers into gamers

 

[willbsn13]

Turning gamers into car lovers and car lovers into gamers

I need a supercut of everytime Dan has said that - I'd imagine it'd be quite a long video 🤣

 

[SestoScudo]

I need a supercut of everytime Dan has said that - I'd imagine it'd be quite a long video 🤣

Im gonna be honest everytime Dan Greenawalt spoke a lot of Forza fans turned it into memes.

Then again we always enjoyed it when he talked. You can tell the man is passionate about this series and the way he talks about it.

Hopefully Forza Motorsport can return back to its proper place after years of stagnation.

 

[Doomotron]

Hopefully this will be good. GT7 was a disappointment for me in the end and if FM is a good entry, maybe the true sequel to FM4, then obviously I'm going to get it.

 

[GTxForza]

For Gear.Club Unlimited 1 & 2 and GRID Autosport on Nintendo Switch, there is no doubt that their handling/driving model appears to be less realistic compared to the three Simcades: F1 22, Gran Turismo 7 & Forza Motorsport Reboot.

 

[nukleabomb]

I would say that PC3, FM and GT7 will sit above Grid/Grid Legends, FH etc. and below iRacing, rF2, ACC etc. in terms of Realistic driving.
Chris Esaki did mention that this new physics engine will still have a familiar 'Forza feel' to it. Since it is still going to be primarily played with a controller, it will still be prioritized. But again, Esaki did mention back in 2019/2020 that the game was the best forza on a wheel (Not really a high bar to clear). I am curious as to how the physics felt to the people who participated in the playtests last year, and whether they got to experience wheel gameplay.

 

[GTxForza]

I would say that PC3, FM and GT7 will sit above Grid/Grid Legends, FH etc. and below iRacing, rF2, ACC etc. in terms of Realistic driving.
Chris Esaki did mention that this new physics engine will still have a familiar 'Forza feel' to it. Since it is still going to be primarily played with a controller, it will still be prioritized. But again, Esaki did mention back in 2019/2020 that the game was the best forza on a wheel (Not really a high bar to clear). I am curious as to how the physics felt to the people who participated in the playtests last year, and whether they got to experience wheel gameplay.

It's obvious that iRacing, rFactor 2, Assetto Corsa Competizione & Automobilista 2's driving model/handling are still more realistic than Gran Turismo & Forza Motorsport series.

 

[Doomotron]

For Gear.Club Unlimited 1 & 2 and GRID Autosport on Nintendo Switch, there is no doubt that their handling/driving model appears to be less realistic compared to the three Simcades: F1 22, Gran Turismo 7 & Forza Motorsport Reboot.

To be fair they're not designed to be realistic, so it's not really a comparison at all. You might as well have said the Nintendo Switch port of Burnout Paradise is less realistic than F1 22, GT7 and FM.

 

[GTxForza]

Hopefully this will be good. GT7 was a disappointment for me in the end and if FM is a good entry, maybe the true sequel to FM4, then obviously I'm going to get it.

To me, GT7 should have been released by fall 2022 so the developer (Polyphony Digital) would have additional time for development.

To be fair they're not designed to be realistic, so it's not really a comparison at all. You might as well have said the Nintendo Switch port of Burnout Paradise is less realistic than F1 22, GT7 and FM.

Of course, I know the Burnout series is born to be an arcade-style street racer, I was here to prove the PC, PS5 & Xbox Series X are superior to Nintendo Switch when it comes to the library of photo-realistic racing games.

Overall, Assetto Corsa Competizione is still the most realistic racing game for the PS5 & Xbox Series X in terms of handling.

 

[Doomotron]

To me, GT7 should have been released by fall 2022 so the developer (Polyphony Digital) would have additional time for development.

Of course, I know the Burnout series is born to be an arcade-style street racer, I was here to prove the PC, PS5 & Xbox Series X are superior to Nintendo Switch when it comes to the library of photo-realistic racing games.

Overall, Assetto Corsa Competizione is still the most realistic racing game for the PS5 & Xbox Series X in terms of handling.

I think another GT7 delay wouldn't have helped it. The problems with GT7 (tuning the economy to encourage microtransactions; not enough races; underuse of some tracks and overuse of others; refusal to update things that seriously needed changing) would almost certainly have stayed. Sure, there would have been more content (although it's entirely possible that the stuff released in updates were already finished and now just added in updates to create artificial interest in the game) and more polished - not that GT7 is unpolished - but I doubt it would have changed the game in a way that would justify its 87/100 rating on Metacritic. If reviewers reviewed the game today it would have got nowhere near that number and is insulting to GT4, since GT4 is only one point ahead of it on Metacritic, and it's pretty obvious GT4 is leagues better than GT7. GT7 wanted to be the true sequel to GT4 but failed that catastrophically.

I paid for the deluxe edition of GT7 and as nice as the bonuses were and as beautiful the steelbook is, I did not get my money's worth. The same happened with FH4. Some may remember my very critical thread on the game from a few years ago. This was during a time when I was incapable of properly putting my thoughts into words and that's how I got to saying that FH2 on the Xbox 360 looked better. What I meant with that particular point was that the map was more impressive and had more photo opportunities, compared to FH4's relatively samey map. For FH4, it falls into the same camp as GT7 for me. They're both games that for differing reasons fail to justify their own existences. GT7 is a Gran Turismo 5 tribute act, and FH4 felt like a further watering-down of what I liked about FH1 and FH2 while bringing not enough to the table for me to feel it was a great game - which is pretty ironic, because I have put more hours I believe into FH4 than any other Forza game or possibly racing game overall (maybe bar GT6 and Burnout Paradise), solely because FH4 was loads of fun playing with friends at home by passing the controller around and just messing around. As a singleplayer experience, I wasn't convinced unfortunately.

When it comes to FM, I want them to actually make a game that isn't a tribute act; I want it to actually be a worthy successor instead of just FM7 with better graphics and physics. I own FM7 and FM6 and I just couldn't get into them. For me they just lacked something, like there was no incentive to play the game. It comes down to a number of reasons, but I think career structure did it for me. FM4 had two options to play the career. You could play it the way it wanted you to in the world tour mode, whereas I chose to play it in the open 'pick an event' mode which was a lot closer to the Gran Turismo career structure which I always loved in games prior to GT7. In essence, if the new Forza Motorsport allowed you to play the career your way without limiting you to a specific way to complete the career like classic GT allowed you to then we're onto a winner. Of course I shall remain sceptical but I hope Turn 10 learn from the decline post-FM4 and make something truly special; a game that we will still be looking back upon fondly 18 years later like we do with GT4.

 

[GTxForza]

I think another GT7 delay wouldn't have helped it. The problems with GT7 (tuning the economy to encourage microtransactions; not enough races; underuse of some tracks and overuse of others; refusal to update things that seriously needed changing) would almost certainly have stayed. Sure, there would have been more content (although it's entirely possible that the stuff released in updates were already finished and now just added in updates to create artificial interest in the game) and more polished - not that GT7 is unpolished - but I doubt it would have changed the game in a way that would justify its 87/100 rating on Metacritic. If reviewers reviewed the game today it would have got nowhere near that number and is insulting to GT4, since GT4 is only one point ahead of it on Metacritic, and it's pretty obvious GT4 is leagues better than GT7. GT7 wanted to be the true sequel to GT4 but failed that catastrophically.

I paid for the deluxe edition of GT7 and as nice as the bonuses were and as beautiful the steelbook is, I did not get my money's worth. The same happened with FH4. Some may remember my very critical thread on the game from a few years ago. This was during a time when I was incapable of properly putting my thoughts into words and that's how I got to saying that FH2 on the Xbox 360 looked better. What I meant with that particular point was that the map was more impressive and had more photo opportunities, compared to FH4's relatively samey map. For FH4, it falls into the same camp as GT7 for me. They're both games that for differing reasons fail to justify their own existences. GT7 is a Gran Turismo 5 tribute act, and FH4 felt like a further watering-down of what I liked about FH1 and FH2 while bringing not enough to the table for me to feel it was a great game - which is pretty ironic, because I have put more hours I believe into FH4 than any other Forza game or possibly racing game overall (maybe bar GT6 and Burnout Paradise), solely because FH4 was loads of fun playing with friends at home by passing the controller around and just messing around. As a singleplayer experience, I wasn't convinced unfortunately.

When it comes to FM, I want them to actually make a game that isn't a tribute act; I want it to actually be a worthy successor instead of just FM7 with better graphics and physics. I own FM7 and FM6 and I just couldn't get into them. For me they just lacked something, like there was no incentive to play the game. It comes down to a number of reasons, but I think career structure did it for me. FM4 had two options to play the career. You could play it the way it wanted you to in the world tour mode, whereas I chose to play it in the open 'pick an event' mode which was a lot closer to the Gran Turismo career structure which I always loved in games prior to GT7. In essence, if the new Forza Motorsport allowed you to play the career your way without limiting you to a specific way to complete the career like classic GT allowed you to then we're onto a winner. Of course I shall remain sceptical but I hope Turn 10 learn from the decline post-FM4 and make something truly special; a game that we will still be looking back upon fondly 18 years later like we do with GT4.

I understand what you mean, to me I always wanted Gran Turismo & Forza Motorsport series to be great. Hopefully, GT7 will be drastically improved by early or mid-2023 and Forza Motorsport Reboot should be great!

Anyway, what's your opinion on Nintendo consoles when it comes to racing/driving games?

Edit: I dislike microtransactions as I rather avoid them at all costs and what if there is GT8, it's better to remove the online DRM but still required to punish the cheaters though.