Forza Motorsport Launches Spring 2023, on Xbox Series and PC

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cutback73
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Something to remember. For GT Sport (and Forza numbers will be similar), as per the Kudosprime stats about 80% of players did not complete the online training videos and therefore did zero/0/nil/none racing online.


Yes the online has to be Good, but most players won't touch the online part of Forza Not8.
 

MagpieRacer

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Are there any kind of numbers that show that? While some casual players surely only fire up the game and do a career race or two here and there, I kinda doubt the numbers of active, dedicated players (who actually pre-order and buy Deluxe Editions and buy DLC and stuff that T10 would care about) are hugely far apart between single player and multiplayer, with many doing both.

I think the closest way you could figure it out would be looking at the achievement unlock rates, but any game that goes onto GamePass ends up skewing those numbers a lot as it raises the numbers for early/easy achievements and makes the late game achievements look like a very low percentage of players ever get them, when sometimes that just means those numbers reflect the actual size of the loyal/dedicated playerbase instead of the people sampling the title like a demo.

While I don't know the numbers, I do know that despite its age, lack of support, and the fact it has been delisted, the FM7 multiplayer servers are still active, admittedly at a reduced level compared to a few years ago.

I don't see how one can say that they cater predominantly to single player when multiplayer was literally the thing that the Forza Motorsport series brought to the console racing game table with FM1, where they had online clubs, online leaderboards, custom public lobbies, tune sharing, and so on that are were all key elements in the series growth and a big reason why so many people switched over from Gran Turismo. The community features have also been pushed by T10 for basically every title since, and they are frequently brought up during coverage of the game. For years since, custom public lobbies have been one of the most requested features in the community as well. In FM7 the biggest post-release development thing done in the game really was the FRR system, which is for multiplayer. It should also be telling that that FM8's beta testing was multiplayer-focused.

I also don't see how using credits to buy a car instead of doing some arbitrary task or filling up some random experience bar or whatever is "dumbing down" the game or would somehow make people have less fun... It's supposed to be the racing that is fun in a racing game, so why is it not enough to race for credits to use to buy cars?

See below quote.

As for your last point, it keeps engagement levels higher. Yeah you can buy cars with credits sure, that's fine, the racing needs to be fun of course to make the credit earning enjoyable. But there's an excitement and a fun to be had in unlocking special cars through a reward system like the manufacturer affinity from previous games. Horizon does a similar sort of thing with the seasonal unlocks, plenty of other games have done it too. It makes game 'rewarding to play. Of course you have things like GT7 which go the other way and make it almost impossible to get certain cars no matter what you do and has a pathetic level of grinding required. FM4 is the sweet spot.

Something to remember. For GT Sport (and Forza numbers will be similar), as per the Kudosprime stats about 80% of players did not complete the online training videos and therefore did zero/0/nil/none racing online.


Yes the online has to be Good, but most players won't touch the online part of Forza Not8.

And bear in mind GT Sport was pitched as an online focused game. Didn't even launch with a single player campaign. Those videos if I remember, were mandatory to play online, so approx 20% of GTS players played it online according to those figures, an online focused racing game. A game with emphasis on single player, ergo, main Gran Turismo games, Forza Motorsport etc, will likely have an even stronger weighting to single players.

I'd also dispute your claim thay multiplayer is what bought Forza Motorsport to existence. Microsoft and Xbox didn't have their own, proper Gran Turismo rival, Gran Turismo is a console seller and MS didn't have that. Sega GT 2002 filled that hole for a couple years but never hit the heights of Gran Turismo or latterly Forza. Whilst there's no doubt Forza was a big title for xbox live, again, Sega GT Online beat it out and it wasn't the first online racer. It was a direct response to GT3 and 4.

Now I'm not saying online isn't important, it is, the portion of dedicated online players might not be as large as the single players, but they're naturally more vocal. The tests were online focused because the game is undergoing a reinvention and a shift. Its easier to get that right with a single player campaign than it is with online. If the online systems don't work as intended or aren't fun, have issues etc, you've got a big problem, so it makes more sense to take a small dedicated segment of the online player base to test that. It certainly doesn't mean the game is going to be an online focused racing game. It means the online section needed real world, real player testing.
 
280
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See below quote.

As for your last point, it keeps engagement levels higher. Yeah you can buy cars with credits sure, that's fine, the racing needs to be fun of course to make the credit earning enjoyable. But there's an excitement and a fun to be had in unlocking special cars through a reward system like the manufacturer affinity from previous games. Horizon does a similar sort of thing with the seasonal unlocks, plenty of other games have done it too. It makes game 'rewarding to play. Of course you have things like GT7 which go the other way and make it almost impossible to get certain cars no matter what you do and has a pathetic level of grinding required. FM4 is the sweet spot.

Maybe that's where the previously mentioned racer vs gamer thing comes in. Racers play for exciting races, gamers play for shiny unlocks I guess.

And bear in mind GT Sport was pitched as an online focused game. Didn't even launch with a single player campaign. Those videos if I remember, were mandatory to play online, so approx 20% of GTS players played it online according to those figures, an online focused racing game. A game with emphasis on single player, ergo, main Gran Turismo games, Forza Motorsport etc, will likely have an even stronger weighting to single players.

I don't necessarily think that GTS to FM7 is an equal comparison, given the implementation of multiplayer in the prior iterations. Before GTS, I would have definitely agreed that GT had a single player focus. Sure they had multiplayer in a few prior titles, but it didn't seem very well implemented or populated and GTS was the first time it felt like they were making much effort for it, interestingly going basically all-in on it. Comparatively, the Forza series had well implemented multiplayer from the very first title and it was a much more evenly split population judging by my own experiences within the game and in several other communities, even if that isn't the case around here. Note that I didn't say "even split" but rather "more evenly split" because yeah, it's not 50/50 but I really doubt it's below 20% on the Forza side of things.

It makes plenty of sense that a game with 6 prior titles with well implemented multiplayer would have a better established multiplayer playerbase to bring forward into a new title than a series that had a few entries with half-hearted multiplayer would.


I'd also dispute your claim thay multiplayer is what bought Forza Motorsport to existence. Microsoft and Xbox didn't have their own, proper Gran Turismo rival, Gran Turismo is a console seller and MS didn't have that. Sega GT 2002 filled that hole for a couple years but never hit the heights of Gran Turismo or latterly Forza. Whilst there's no doubt Forza was a big title for xbox live, again, Sega GT Online beat it out and it wasn't the first online racer. It was a direct response to GT3 and 4.

To be clear I wasn't saying it is what brought it into existence, rather that multiplayer implementation was one of the key things it used to steal players away from GT/Sony, along with the customization, and make it the success it is today. Yeah, it was primarily Microsoft's GT fighter, but the online clubs/racing/etc was a big deal back then, and its consistently solid implementation of those things are a big reason why a lot of people stuck with the Forza franchise over returning to GT... at least until GTS, which did steal some players back from Forza multiplayer community.

Keep in mind I'm not saying it is a primarily a multiplayer game either, just that I don't think its as insignificant as some people around here like to make it seem like it is, and it's enough of a factor that it should earn some right to compromise in game design areas, including making choices in regards to content and how it is delivered, rather than the "meh, it's a single player game, **** 'em" attitude that it often gets around here.

Now I'm not saying online isn't important, it is, the portion of dedicated online players might not be as large as the single players, but they're naturally more vocal. The tests were online focused because the game is undergoing a reinvention and a shift. Its easier to get that right with a single player campaign than it is with online. If the online systems don't work as intended or aren't fun, have issues etc, you've got a big problem, so it makes more sense to take a small dedicated segment of the online player base to test that. It certainly doesn't mean the game is going to be an online focused racing game. It means the online section needed real world, real player testing.

I know you aren't saying it isn't important, but there are some around here who blow it off in thinly veiled "well I don't care about multiplayer so no one else should" kind of comments and it can be hard to tell with some and the lack of tone in text.

I also didn't mean that the multiplayer beta tests were a sign it was multiplayer focused, rather that it was a sign that they don't see it as just some extra mode for a small fraction of the community to play.

Not sure I'd agree with it being easier to make single player though... I mean it should be in theory, but it given how bad career modes have been for a long time it doesn't appear to be the case. Especially with the big reliance on AI which seemingly hasn't improved much in the last 20 years. It's part of what will make this game's launch so interesting, it's desperately in need of both career and multiplayer updates, although the multiplayer issues are primarily rooted in the crashy culture (hard to fix, but easy to work around) and the shallow racing (which we already know they are trying to fix with tire compounds/etc). The deeper racing will also help the career of course, but in my opinion it needs even more than just pit stops to make its career interesting again... Then again maybe it's just me being too jaded to enjoy any of them at this point.
 
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FordGT40Guy
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Custom game lobbies will help fix the "crashy culture" with player moderated lobbies for maintaining clean racing.

Racing with random players comes at that risk on both GT and Forza; I have definitely been dive bombed, used as a brake, and drilled into walls in GT7.
 
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2,046
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x Ak1504 x
Used to love FM, but from 2 on they went in the wrong direction for me.

Did you bought the wrong games ? I play Forza Motorsport since 2 and till today with FM7 all the games are clearly FM games :D Maybe its you direction and not the games direction since its unchanged thats the problem here ^^
 
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Autumnal_Glow
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Did you bought the wrong games ? I play Forza Motorsport since 2 and till today with FM7 all the games are clearly FM games :D Maybe its you direction and not the games direction since its unchanged thats the problem here ^^
While I disagree with GlamFM, especially considering 2 was barely any different than the first beyond a bigger list of races and cars, and FM1 was very basic, the series definitely changed after that point. Play FM2 and FM3, it's a pretty different experience. While the overall direction was always to be a racing/car collecting game leaning toward casual players, how they go about that has evolved with time.

Of course, many would also argue it hasn't changed enough, but that's more a matter of opinion.
 
2,046
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x Ak1504 x
Yea its evolving but not changed direction so its now a complete different game :D I played them ALL and way too much ^^
 
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Fun fact: I never said it changed direction. I said it went in the wrong direction.
And I also added “for me”.

Astonishing amount of toxicity for such a harmless post.
 
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Fun fact: I never said it changed direction. I said it went in the wrong direction.
And I also added “for me”.

Astonishing amount of toxicity for such a harmless post.
We all understood what you were saying. No one was trying to be offensive or toxic.
 

MagpieRacer

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Fun fact: I never said it changed direction. I said it went in the wrong direction.
And I also added “for me”.

Astonishing amount of toxicity for such a harmless post.

If it went in the wrong direction, that would imply it changed direction. Its a bit confusing to be honest, can't see any toxicity or anything, just confusion.

FM4 was the peak for me, it went a bit stale after that, FM5 was very pretty but lacked content and FM6 and 7, whilst good, weren't quite as in depth as 4 was.
 
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toastet
My prediction (or hope) is that the new FM will hit a sweet spot between PC2 and Assetto Corsa Competizione.
Forza won't be a sim which this would mean. I would predict a FM7 in nicer graphics and polished all around a bit but it will stay arcade/simcade as the previous 7 (8) titles in the franchise since these games are selling millions of copies which PC2 or ACC don't.
 
343
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Forza won't be a sim which this would mean. I would predict a FM7 in nicer graphics and polished all around a bit but it will stay arcade/simcade as the previous 7 (8) titles in the franchise since these games are selling millions of copies which PC2 or ACC don't.
Most likely will be a 1:1 GT7 competitor. Made more for a controller, but will also have wheel as a focus, with about the same gameplay features.

Even if it's going to be serious, it will not exceed PC2.

Also, looking back at the 2022 reveal, it seems like they were taking shots at GT7, with 'RT on track label', damage on cars, fully customizable and dynamic weather/time, showcasing newer cars etc.
 
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Hopefully, the classic racing car section of Forza Motorsport's car list would be much more diverse than FM7 and FM6 combined. I mean, T10 and Playground literally have made textures for the Cooper T81, Tyrrell P34, Matra-Simca 650, Lola T90 and Benetton B190, so, could they potentially have the guts to bring in more classic racing cars throughout different eras and disciplines (70s F1/F3, 80s F1/F3, Super Silhouette, ATCC, JTCC, Super GT).

Plus, with the new Forzatech engine's advancements that we already knew for months after the E3 showcase, it may be possible that T10 could be working on physics for 6-wheeled cars like the Tyrrell P34 too.

If I remember correctly, they visited the Nissan Zama collection garage in Japan (where they potentially scanned the Nissan Safari Turbo, Bluebird SS and R380), right? So why not T10 consider the R91CP's predecessors (R89C, R90CK, R86V, etc.) or the Silvia Super Silhouette.
 
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Making the game the best Simulation game that can be played on the PC would be a huge thing. Anyone can still turn on TC and ST and most likely a arcade option as well.
 

Veinz

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I’m hoping for something that is realistic and focused rather than the generic garbage they’ve been putting out since 2013.

Let Horizon be the car collecting game with arcade physics. Motorsport should be for the sim racers.
 
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1,527
United Kingdom
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I think it's going to be a lot less sim than people around here are hoping. Gamepass day 1, needing to appeal to as broad as possible an audience (to boast of active player numbers in the absence of actual sales) - they are not going to want to turn off those Horizon players.

A truly nextgen simcade with damage and full weather, designed to be played on pad - basically what a lot think GT7 should have been.
 

MagpieRacer

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Hopefully, the classic racing car section of Forza Motorsport's car list would be much more diverse than FM7 and FM6 combined. I mean, T10 and Playground literally have made textures for the Cooper T81, Tyrrell P34, Matra-Simca 650, Lola T90 and Benetton B190, so, could they potentially have the guts to bring in more classic racing cars throughout different eras and disciplines (70s F1/F3, 80s F1/F3, Super Silhouette, ATCC, JTCC, Super GT).

Plus, with the new Forzatech engine's advancements that we already knew for months after the E3 showcase, it may be possible that T10 could be working on physics for 6-wheeled cars like the Tyrrell P34 too.

If I remember correctly, they visited the Nissan Zama collection garage in Japan (where they potentially scanned the Nissan Safari Turbo, Bluebird SS and R380), right? So why not T10 consider the R91CP's predecessors (R89C, R90CK, R86V, etc.) or the Silvia Super Silhouette.

I hope it's like this across all eras of racing. They've made good starts, 60s, 70s and 80s GP cars, started 90s . Same with other categories. But they also need to categorise them properly without the rubbish homolation rules that hurt each class in FM7. BTCC cars for example shouldn't be paired with the STCC cars, it just made the class unbalanced and meant the BTCC cars had to be ruined to be competitive and they still weren't.

Fleshing out each category should nullify this by being able to curate a good field of relevant/close machinery without having to modify them.
 
343
India
India
I hope it's like this across all eras of racing. They've made good starts, 60s, 70s and 80s GP cars, started 90s . Same with other categories. But they also need to categorise them properly without the rubbish homolation rules that hurt each class in FM7. BTCC cars for example shouldn't be paired with the STCC cars, it just made the class unbalanced and meant the BTCC cars had to be ruined to be competitive and they still weren't.

Fleshing out each category should nullify this by being able to curate a good field of relevant/close machinery without having to modify them.
They really need a good amount of cars per division to do that, 5-10 per division sounds like a good enough variety.
 

MagpieRacer

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They really need a good amount of cars per division to do that, 5-10 per division sounds like a good enough variety.

I'd take less, 3 minimum, depending on the series/division. 3 90s F1 cars would be plenty for example, whereas touring cars, I'd expect more.
 

Jump_Ace

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Has anyone else tried FM7 with current gen Fanatec DD equipment? It feels like I'm using a Fisher-Price setup. FM7 was clearly not designed to be used with modern wheels and pedals. I hope FM8 improves that....a lot.


Jerome
 

Veinz

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Sure, because gatekeeping worked so well for Gran Turismo Sport. Having options for both casual and sim-oriented players does not need to be mutually exclusive. I hope they strike the right balance.
Gatekeeping? Please. This is about making a good racing game. Doing the same old thing is not going to get them anywhere. That old formula got so stale that they had to reboot the series.

Besides GT Sport has a lot of great things that they should copy. If they don’t then they are idiots.
 
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We'll see how it goes when Developer_Direct goes live, but I'm concerned. I'm all for the wide variety of racecars, old F1 cars, but that does mean we will see a smaller car list.