Free Speech
- Thread starter A2K78
- 1,170 comments
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- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
Oh, there's free speech. You just have to be willing to accept responsibility for what you say. Don't mistake people disagreeing with you or wanting to hold you accountable for what you say as your free speech being stifled. As has been said, freedom of speech is not freedom from responsibility.
- 29,316
- Bratvegas
- GTP_Liquid
While I agree with the principle, RacerPaul is technically correct. There actually isn't though. Nowhere in any documents which make up the United Kingdom constitution is freedom of speech for the people codified and protected. Members of Parliament are protected but only under strict parliamentary privilege.
We have thrown people in gaol for making jokes (horrible jokes but jokes nonetheless). You aren't allowed to say what you want without legal reprisal and can theoretically be prosecuted for saying something. It's a tinhat scenario, sure, but it is entirely possible to criticise the British government and end up imprisoned for it.
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- 2,744
- England
- RacerPaul65
I'm certainly not going to get into a big long one with you, because I think I'm detecting what you are
All I will say is that if one risks his freedom, livelihood, physical and/or mental wellbeing from merely stating an opinion (calmly, eloquently and without profanity), however unpalatable it may be to some, then we don't have freedom of speech
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- 29,316
- Bratvegas
- GTP_Liquid
This is misunderstanding what freedom of speech means. Freedom of speech, quite simply, is not "being able to say anything".
Protected and codified freedom of speech means that the government cannot censure or restrict private citizens' rights to free opinion. It is a protection to guarantee that people will always be able to, most prominently, criticise the ruling powers without fear of retribution. People disagreeing with your opinions is completely separate.
Free Speech
Being able to say "I think we should deport all foreigners and people of mixed race" without being thrown in gaol.
Not Free Speech
Finding out that people disagree with you and chastising/countering you.
Free speech comes with responsibilities and one must, as with actions, stand by and think of the consequences of what one says.
- 20,578
- NJ/USA
- Blitzbay
- Blitzbay
There is definitely free speech. If you say all of these things to nobody or your close family it's possible that nothing will happen. You say it to the public though you can't expect everyone to feel the same way about a rhetoric that your close knit circle agrees with.
- 86,056
- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
Freedom isn't "getting away with it in a group of likeminded people". It's freedom from government prosecution for it.
Actually, he's right.
Freedom of speech (or rather expression) isn't about saying what you like when you like with impunity. It's about saying what you like when you like without prosecution from government.
We don't have that freedom:
Man gaoled for comments on Twitter.
Man and woman gaoled for comments on Twitter.
Man gaoled for comments on Twitter.
Man gaoled for comments on Facebook.
Joel
Premium
- 8,141
- Halifax, NS
- Noob616
It's fine if people disagree or hold you accountable. I still have free speech even if someone disagrees with my opinions. I still have free speech even if my boss fires me for saying something racist.
What's not fine is when government holds people "accountable" at the barrel of a gun. It's not OK when governments fine and throw people in jail for expressing themselves. It's not free speech if government is using force to silence or punish you for what you're saying.
- 645
- England
Free Speech is alive and well here in the UK. The main thing people complain about is taking responsibility for what they say when it is offensive.
I despise no one daring saying there beliefs as there afraid to be attacked by the pc brigade and told the way they should think when we all have our own minds and opinions and to many refuse to discuss opinions and just label someone who maybe a minority in there beliefs instead of participating in what can sometimes be a brilliant debate.
I will discuss anything with an open mind and suggest we all do the same and ignore the pc brigade.
I despise no one daring saying there beliefs as there afraid to be attacked by the pc brigade and told the way they should think when we all have our own minds and opinions and to many refuse to discuss opinions and just label someone who maybe a minority in there beliefs instead of participating in what can sometimes be a brilliant debate.
I will discuss anything with an open mind and suggest we all do the same and ignore the pc brigade.
- 86,056
- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
It's nothing to do with 'the PC brigade' or people not liking what you say. Freedom of expression is the freedom from government censure for expressing yourself - and we do not have that in the UK. The four links I posted show that - people put in prison following criminal prosecution for nothing more than things they have said.
- 24,553
- Frankfort, KY
- GTP_FoolKiller
- FoolKiller1979
The courts have overruled most cases where people have gotten in trouble for saying things, so long as they did not incite violence or threaten violence against someone.
For example, courts deemed it Constitutional to flip off police. Courts have also deemed it legal to warn motorists of speed traps.
The current issues that most scare me are the moves to require specific definitions of what press is (removing protections from bloggers) when it comes to the Internet, or changes in FEC rules regarding online postings.
I highly doubt those laws would stand up in court, but for the years it would take to be appealed up to the Supreme Court those rules could heavily affect how we can discuss politics online.
- 86,056
- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
Ours say the exact opposite...
Anyone want to tell me we have freedom of expression still?
- 24,553
- Frankfort, KY
- GTP_FoolKiller
- FoolKiller1979
KSaiyu
(Banned)
- 2,822
I now have to go for my blood and urine test as I'm still a "danger".
My last night shift I stopped a hypo occurring as I saw what the nurses didn't see and realised that infusing 6.0 ml/h of insulin to someone having his blood glucose checked every 2 hours doesn't fit anyone's idea of "safe" practice.
- 11,660
- GTP_Orido
Free speech ? Go to the mountain, climb up a rock, shout whatever you want, as loud as you can, as long as you can, and no one will mind.
- 29,316
- Bratvegas
- GTP_Liquid
Can the government prosecute you for what you shout on the top of that mountain? If yes, you don't have free speech. If no, you do have free speech.
- 11,660
- GTP_Orido
- 29,316
- Bratvegas
- GTP_Liquid
No government ever did that, right ? I don't think any government will care of what someone says on top a mountain or a cliff in the middle of nowhere, besides no harm will be done if no one listensUnless someone record it and put it on Youtube
In your specific context, no I don't think so but as has already been said:
- 9,262
- Corsham
- lipming
If we assume for the moment the WBC weren't barred from entering the UK (On free speech grounds nonetheless), and they came over here to picket whoever or whatever on the streets of London, asides from the fact that they'd be attacked by an angry mob straight away (which seems ironic enough considering they come from gun-wielding Kansas of all places), the police would turn up straight away, arrest the angry mob for assaulting them, and then arrest the picketers for saying things that might (and usually do) offend people, when they haven't caused any physical harm to anyone else or anyone else's property. Contrast this to how their pickets work in the states, where the police have to go out of their way to protect them while they're picketing, and they won a Supreme Court lawsuit on free speech grounds. Free speech definitely doesn't exist in the same capacity in the UK as it does the US.
- 11,660
- GTP_Orido
- 24,553
- Frankfort, KY
- GTP_FoolKiller
- FoolKiller1979
- 6,425
- KCCO
I think that places far out in Texas is the last place in the US where you can find people drive with guns on racks, or waving around (in a safe manner). I live less than 100 yards from the GA-AL border and less than a mile away from a place where you have to pack heat if you drive in a sedan. Places a little bit less than what Texas is known for, but not as much as Atlanta/Chicago.
- 1,916
- Letchworth
- mistersafeway
What is your opinion on that with regards to the WBC, if you don't mind sharing? Mine is that we should let them in to express their views and people should be allowed to express their views in return. With their fists (no weapons, for hopefully obvious reasons).
Edit: to try to be a little coherent, I mean that we should allow their freedom of speech to a point, the mob's right to a bit of mob justice, then the WBC's right to not get overly serious injuries.
- 13,830
- Adelaide
- Neomone
Where do you draw the line at opinions that can be "counter-argued" with physical violence? Or is punching someone in the face an acceptable rebuttal to any opinion?
The way I see it, if you let people beat up the WBC for being bat-🤬 crazy, then you sort of have to let pro- and anti- climate change groups fight it out. Pro- and anti-abortion groups. Pro- and anti-SUV owners. Et cetera. It becomes a might makes right situation pretty quickly, where anyone with a minority view is suppressed for fear of major injury or death.
- 9,262
- Corsham
- lipming
They're within their rights to say and do what they like, and as far as I know they haven't done anything which warrants being arrested. If we just ignore them they'll eventually go away.
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