Gran Turismo 7 Confirmed to also launch on PlayStation 4, is a cross-gen title

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Are you disappointed GT7 is also on PS4 with gameplay & graphic assets held back by PS4 limitations?


  • Total voters
    592
483
Argentina
Buenos Aires
lgfd070
Nowyx
Here in my country also shows it correctly, I think it's global, not sure why @hardvibes has it different than ours.

Also, notice that typo, instead of "Confirmar" it says "Confirmer" lol
IMG_20210610_121801.jpg
 
326
United States
United States
At any rate, I hope that someone from PD and Sony is monitoring this thread.

lots of good feedback and suggestions here from diehard GT fans, tech gurus, and casual gamers.

hopefully it’s a PS5 exclusive and they just delay it however long it takes to keep it that way.

but if they do make it a cross console game, hopefully they make smart concessions we can all live in.

personally, if GT7 falls flat, it’ll end up costing me a couple grand. I’ll be going the PC route .


Please Sony don’t force me to spend that much money!!
 

Scaff

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Don't you think Sony/Microsoft would publicly state such a thing, if only to reassure what are now previous gen machine owners?, as for other games, you'd inevitably get some form of confirmation of there being such a mandate if you asked in an interview.
Not really, they might if directly asked. Then again we (GTP) did directly ask them (in regard to GT7 and it being PS4 and PS5), and basically got a 'no comment'!

So they seem quite happy to let confusion play out right now.


I agree that Sony would be more likely to do that than not do that simply due to the numbers involved. 110-115 million users you don't want to get on the wrong side of. Microsoft, with a emphasis of backwards compatible maybe different.
From both a PR and potentially a legal standpoint it makes sense.
 
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257
Just because one game is more of a sim than another it doesn't mean the phsyical calcualtions going on in the other are any less complex. Don't mistake a game being a sim for automatically equating to the physics engine being more complex. The decision to balance the physics on that line a bit away fromtitles like ACC is a design one, not by itself a limitation of hardware.

Where the hardware becomes a limitation is the number of variables and frequency of calcaulations per second. Remember, the game has to do this not just for the player, but for ever car on track all at once. So if you doubt the number of variables and also double the number of cars on track at once, this is not doubling the complexity of the physics it is quadroupling them. So unfortuantely it isn't as striaght forward as this game is more of a hardcore sim than this other one.

Everything is a tradeoff in order to reach the maximum of what you want to acheive. When you reach a maximum you hit a bottleneck where going further creates issues such as instability such as inconsistent frame rates, artifacts, thermal throttling etc. The design direction you take will influece how much of A you can have at the expense of B and so on. The way they can make one area of GT7 better thna GT Sport on PS4 is to make other things worse than GT Sport and the design decisions made to accommodate GT7 on PS4 will impact the PS5 version too.

Remember, hardcore sims have existed for decades, but modern hardocre sims are a lot more realistic and complex physics wise than they were 10 years ago. Likewise, Gran Turismo has always operated in that more accessible sim space, but like the hardcore sims it has also become far more complex over the years. The modern and more complex games are simply not possible on older hardware, for example the PS2 could not run GT5's engine, likewise the PS3 couldn't run GT Sports.

Yes I agree it's possible the complexity of the calculations could be similar, but I assume when some people say they are looking for improvements it's that they want things to move further towards the sim end of the spectrum.

There's also the possibilty that there could be larger grid sizes on the PS5, so requiring more computation, and also perhaps a 120fps mode needing a faster rate of calculation.
 

Scaff

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Legal as in a sticker on the case pointing out the differences between versions?
May not be enough in all markets, it's a global product, if it doesn't fly in every market it's getting sold in, then it can be done in any of them.

Aside from advertising legislation I'm sure Sony are also very, very conscious of the class action law suits CD Project Red are currently fighting (and which saw Cyberpunk removed from the PSN Store), and those were just as a result of differing performance levels, not even missing features.

It's a legal and legislative minefield on a global basis, being honest I wouldn't blame any business of being wary of going near it at all.
 
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1,917
Czech Republic
Prague
karelpipa
As i am now in 3rd stage of grief, i am open to bargaining :)
I would accept GT7 on PS4 ONLY if there are 100% of classic tracks from previous games. Mainly from GT1/GT2 and also lots and lots of cars with racing modifications. And many many other small things like actual AI which can race with you. NO rabbit races and preferably championships, not single races (accessible number of championships driven at one time would be unlimited in that case). I can help Kaz! :)

Something tells me this will not happen :( And i would sorely miss daytimes and changeable weather.
 
8,667
United States
Marin County
I don't want to beat the CPU horse further to death, but I found this old post regarding the physics refresh rate of various titles. Rigs of Rods & Beam NG are might impressive.

Preface: Why would anyone care about such a thing, and what do these values mean?

There are two advantages to calculating more physics positions, rotations and forces more often. Consider an extreme case of updating physics at 30Hz and have a car that can drive at 200mph. You're moving 3m between each physics update, so objects (eg kerbs, dips, potholes) that are smaller than that are likely to be missed entirely, thus the car won't react.
Firstly, a faster update rate gives more fidelity for the texture of the terrain beneath the tyres. Secondly, stiff springs become numerically unstable at large time steps (slow update rates), which can limit the settings used or start to give poor handling.

So why not always run at a very high update rate? Performance. Double the update rate and you've doubled CPU time dedicated to physics, and this quickly becomes expensive. Also, given cars only drive so fast and only have springs so stiff, there becomes a point where the is no benefit to running faster. As such, the rate is a compromise.


Anyway, on to the list:

'98 Sports Car GT - 50 Hz [from Blackhole Motorsports article]
'98 Viper Racing - 60 Hz (general) / 300 Hz (some aspects) [email with Dave Broske]
'98 Grand Prix Legends - 144 Hz
'00 F1 2000 - 50 Hz [from Blackhole Motorsports article]
'00-'08 Racer - 300 Hz (general) / 3000-30,000 Hz (tyre rotation) [posted by Ruud in a thread archive on racer.nl, dated '01]
'01 F1 2001 - 200 Hz [from Blackhole Motorsports article]
'02 Total Immersion Racing - 100 Hz / 400 Hz effective internal due to Runge-Kutta RK4 integration [from press release]
'02-'08 Live for Speed - 100 Hz (collision detection) / 2000 Hz (vehicle dynamics) [posted by Scawen on lfsforum]
'03 NASCAR Racing 2003 Season - 288 Hz (possibly)
'04 VirtualRC Racing v1.0 - 300 Hz (general) / 600 Hz (tyre model) [posted by Todd on lfsforum]
'05 VirtualRC Racing v3.0 - 250 Hz (general) / 500 or 1000 Hz (tyre model) [posted by Todd on lfsforum]
'05 rFactor - 400 Hz
'05 Forza Motorsport - 180 Hz
'06 Test Drive Unlimited - 100 Hz (collision detection) / 1000 Hz (vehicle dynamics)
'06 netKar Pro - 333 Hz [posted by Kunos on RSC]
'07 Forza Motorsport 2 - 360 Hz [from wikipedia article]
'07 Rigs of Rods - 2000 Hz [from ROR forums]
'08 Ferrari Challenge: Trofeo Pirelli - 60 Hz
'08 rFactor Pro - 800 Hz [from official website]
'08 iRacing - 360 Hz [from AutoSimSport]
'09 Supercar Challenge - 60 Hz
'09 Need for Speed: Shift - 180 Hz / might be 360 Hz (effective due to 2 physics passes per timestep?)
'09 Forza Motorsport 3 - 360 Hz [from gamespot article]
Motorsport - 333 Hz (but still being tuned) [posted by Stenyak on RSC]
'11 NASCAR 2011: The Game - 60 Hz / either 240 or 360 Hz (I forget which value I settled on) for sub-stepping the tyre force calculation but only at slow speeds. Also the thermodynamics were updated at just 3 Hz as that's quite expensive so but also very numerically stable.
'12 rFactor 2 - 400 Hz [posted on forum.studio-397.com]
'13 Stock Car Extreme - 360 Hz [from game-automobilista.com]
'14 Assetto Corsa - 333 Hz [posted by Kunos on assettocorsa.net]
'15 Automobilista - 720 Hz [from game-automobilista.com]
'15 BeamNG - 2000 Hz [from beamng.gmbh]
'17 Project CARS 2 - 600 Hz [posted by Ian Bell on forum.projectcarsgame.com]
'18 iRacing - 360 Hz / 720 Hz for force calculation [from article on iRacing.com]
'18 Assetto Corsa Competizione - 333 Hz [posted by Kunos on assettocorsa.net]

Annoyingly, no GT titles are listed and I couldn't find anything searching. Anyone know what the refresh rate of the GT Sport engine is? I wonder if AC runs the same rate on PS4 as it does on PC - I would assume it does. Lower than optimal refresh rate could explain GT Sport's odd interaction with curbs.
 
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2,519
United States
Connecticut
Ridley-X4
With the recent report that the newly-announced Battlefield 2042 will have double the players on PS5, I just might wait to get a PS5 at some point. So if GT7 is also cross-gen, I may as well get the PS5 version, as I expect there to be notable differences judging from what I heard about each version of BF2042.
 
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1,514
vspectra06
vspectra06
Well I had to give my vote to the 'disappointed' category. I knew this was going to go this way and now I feel that the Gran Turismo 7 will be a bit of a 'disappointment'.

I shall say no more than that on here but now I have a console that has lots of lovely graphical improvements but no real games that I play other than the PS5 version of Genshin Impact.

Happy for all you PS4 players if you do get a chance to play GT7 on your consoles and my only 'hope' is that there is one more Gran Turismo title in the PS5 life cycle, I am most definitely not going through the new console process again!

If a new GT8 does come out on PS5, it probably won't come out until 4 years after GT7's 2022 launch, which means we won't be getting a true next-gen GT until the year 2026 at the earliest, with PD stuck making dlc updates and tracks for PS4 GT7 for years post-launch. Which goes back to the cycle of whether Polyphony will just port all of these cross-gen assets they made for GT7 or start over from scratch. I don't know where people are getting the idea Polyphony is capable of making two different game assets optimized for two different console generations. They were already re-using 3d models of building props from PS3 GT6 for PS4 GTSport dlc to save development time.

tenor.gif


Someone brought up the new Battlefield game not being next-gen only but that game is releasing this year and EA cranks out those games almost every one to two years with heavy reliance on outsourcing and multiple studios; the wait for a new Battlefield game is hardly bad. Only the latest one took 3 years as they upgraded their engine into Frostbite 4 and preparing the dev environment for next-gen. The Frostbite engine team alone is 100-200 people, almost half or all of Polyphony's manpower just for engine development.
 
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23
Germany
Germany
If a new GT8 does come out on PS5, it probably won't come out until 4 years after GT7's 2022 launch, which means we won't be getting a true next-gen GT until the year 2026 at the earliest, with PD stuck making dlc updates and tracks for PS4 GT7 for years post-launch. Which goes back to the cycle of whether Polyphony will just port all of these cross-gen assets they made for GT7 or start over from scratch. I don't know where people are getting the idea Polyphony is capable of making two different game assets optimized for two different console generations. They were already re-using 3d models of building props from PS3 GT6 for PS4 GTSport dlc to save development time.
Yes and the bad Thing is, at this time the PS6 is knocking on the door and Enthusiast are getting mad, that there are no real Next Gen GT is seeing the light.
An early Launch like from GT3 is better than a late Launch. When the Hype of a new generation is still there. To release a next gen Game at the end of a console life circle is a very bad decision.
 

Corsa

Premium
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Software should always progress with the hardware, not the other way round. A bit like Bugatti phoning you for delivery, then casually mentioning they had to run drum brakes to meet supplier and revenue needs.
 
2,297
England
Reading
cutback73
Software should always progress with the hardware, not the other way round. A bit like Bugatti phoning you for delivery, then casually mentioning they had to run drum brakes to meet supplier and revenue needs.

Interesting analogy. I get your point and generally agree, however, not sure you'd get that from Bugatti, however there are multiple car manufacturers who have stopped building and selling certain models or features that use lots of chips "to meet supplier needs"...

For example, if you're American, your last 2? SUVs probably had auto stop/start. Your next one wont have that feature this year...

https://eu.freep.com/story/money/ca.../08/gm-pickups-suvs-chip-shortage/7601235002/

Vehicle software IS going backwards and has been going backwards all year due to (supplier needs) chip shortages.
 
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338
Canada
Canada
Interesting analogy. I get your point and generally agree, however, not sure you'd get that from Bugatti, however there are multiple car manufacturers who have stopped building and selling certain models or features that use lots of chips "to meet supplier needs"...

For example, if you're American, your last 2? SUVs probably had auto stop/start. Your next one wont have that feature this year...

https://eu.freep.com/story/money/ca.../08/gm-pickups-suvs-chip-shortage/7601235002/

Vehicle software IS going backwards and has been going backwards all year due to (supplier needs) chip shortages.
Thank goodness. I want my next car to have power windows, CD player, and that's it.
 
7,487
Denmark
Denmark
Why would a PS4 version necessarily compromise the PS5 version? GT3 looked better than GT4 on the PS2 and GT5 looked and performed better than GT6 on the PS3. So I wouldn't be surprised if a PS4 version of GT7 would repeat this story against GT Sport, but with the PS5 version of GT7 being the new-generation experience it was always intended to be, cross-generation or not.
 

CLowndes888

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Australia
Melbourne
fubbletrouble888
If a new GT8 does come out on PS5, it probably won't come out until 4 years after GT7's 2022 launch, which means we won't be getting a true next-gen GT until the year 2026 at the earliest, with PD stuck making dlc updates and tracks for PS4 GT7 for years post-launch. Which goes back to the cycle of whether Polyphony will just port all of these cross-gen assets they made for GT7 or start over from scratch. I don't know where people are getting the idea Polyphony is capable of making two different game assets optimized for two different console generations. They were already re-using 3d models of building props from PS3 GT6 for PS4 GTSport dlc to save development time.
All we ever do as GT fans is wait. We want a next generation experience NOW, not in 5 years. Sony should take the plunge and forget about cross-gen.

Thank goodness. I want my next car to have power windows, CD player, and that's it.
How about leather seats? (I hope you get the reference)
 
5
United States
Michigan
All we ever do as GT fans is wait. We want a next generation experience NOW, not in 5 years. Sony should take the plunge and forget about cross-gen.


How about leather seats? (I hope you get the reference)
Looks a bit like a Jaguar to me.
 
15,842
United States
Maryland
GranTurismo0517
RandomCarGuy17
The only way I see a crossgen GT7 working is if Polyphony is NOT the only one developing GT7 (which I'm guessing won't happen). Which means one development team would work on PS4 version of GT7 and PD themselves would tackle the PS5.

Basically a similar case to what happened with the original Test Drive Unlimited and Forza Horizon 2. PD could engage in any incredible experiments making use of the PS5 and people not ready for the PS5 can still play the newest GT. Though it would be watered down a bit compared to the PS5 version.
 
338
Canada
Canada
Why would a PS4 version necessarily compromise the PS5 version? GT3 looked better than GT4 on the PS2 and GT5 looked and performed better than GT6 on the PS3. So I wouldn't be surprised if a PS4 version of GT7 would repeat this story against GT Sport, but with the PS5 version of GT7 being the new-generation experience it was always intended to be, cross-generation or not.
This is my hope. That some brilliant team of software engineers perform some technical wizardry but it's not looking like the numbers add up.
 

Corsa

Premium
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United States
The only way I see a crossgen GT7 working is if Polyphony is NOT the only one developing GT7 (which I'm guessing won't happen). Which means one development team would work on PS4 version of GT7 and PD themselves would tackle the PS5.

Would take years as they would have to build two separate physics models assuming Polyphony were trying to use the PS5 to (insert your gran turismo physics opinion here) or use mine…modernize the real driving simulators tire model.
I’m not sure Polyphony is ready to let a 3rd party cut into their c++ efforts for a simpler back end PS4 version.
 

snc

252
Poland
Poland
Why would a PS4 version necessarily compromise the PS5 version? GT3 looked better than GT4 on the PS2 and GT5 looked and performed better than GT6 on the PS3. So I wouldn't be surprised if a PS4 version of GT7 would repeat this story against GT Sport, but with the PS5 version of GT7 being the new-generation experience it was always intended to be, cross-generation or not.
It was answered dozen of time here, and if you dont understand hardware at least you should understand that when same team has to now work not on one version but 3 (ps5, ps4, ps4pro) has less time and resources to focus on one and polyphony isnt fastest dev team on planet
 

Scaff

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Drive club is hit n miss. I still think gtsport is better looking overall, both cars and level of environments.
This entire thread...

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/driveclub-scenery.320510/

...illustrates just how wrong that claim is in regard to environments.

DC has 3d volumetric clouds, and fully modelled environments, oh and don't forget the real-time lighting as opposed to GTS's pre-baked stuff.

https://blog.playstation.com/archive/2014/06/05/51-driveclub-details-might-just-blow-mind/
 
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