Gran Turismo 7 Included in Major PlayStation 5 Website Update

1,066
United Kingdom
England
Doomotron
It's a bit strong to assume that GT having more realistic physics would make the game easier to play and sell better when Assetto Corsa and Project Cars have sold nowhere near as much as GT Sport.
 
38,478
Australia
The Bronx
It's a bit strong to assume that GT having more realistic physics would make the game easier to play and sell better when Assetto Corsa and Project Cars have sold nowhere near as much as GT Sport.
Assume nothing. Players have walked away from GT and played other games. That's a lost potential sale. Doesn't matter if another person buys the game. They still are down a sale.

I'm not comparing sales between games. I know GT sells more. The point is, the person that walked away from GT because of the ffb and physics, would buy the game PD having improved the ffb and physics. That's a sale.

Plus, the point of bugs in those games was addressed and I agreed.
 
451
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
The first quote doesn't come off to me as Gran Turismo 7 sales dropping. I see it as a fact for wheel user disappointment. There are plenty players at least, in this community that complain about ffb and physics in GT Sport. I'm a DS4 user and notice the big difference since playing AC & ACC.

If PD had such physics, its be a perfect game. The cars would actually be even easier, behave better and more realistic to drive. I'd bet the average player would adjust to the physics quicker than having to learn using the car in front as a brake for T1.:lol:

Anyway, that's an improvement that one: would be accurate of PD's "The Real Driving Simulator" and two: be a general improvement of the overall driving experience for wheel and DS5 users.

And to add, sure ACC has its bugs and frame rate problems, but in Single Player, I ain't complaining about that game's AI and driving physics.👍 PD get it together and they'd get even more sales. That's the main objective.

I still don't think you get that part of the GT series has always been accessibility, its easy for anyone to pick up and play and a whole generation have grown up playing GT games.

If you had "hardcore" physics in GT you'd lose that. Whilst you might prefer that, its not going to encourage casuals to join in. If you want sales you can't alienate them. AC/ACC are niche games and have limited appeal to the wider market, as the sales show.

For every one person that walked away from GT because of the physics there would be many, many more from AC/ACC.
 
765
Philippines
Philippines
I still don't think you get that part of the GT series has always been accessibility, its easy for anyone to pick up and play and a whole generation have grown up playing GT games.

If you had "hardcore" physics in GT you'd lose that. Whilst you might prefer that, its not going to encourage casuals to join in. If you want sales you can't alienate them. AC/ACC are niche games and have limited appeal to the wider market, as the sales show.

For every one person that walked away from GT because of the physics there would be many, many more from AC/ACC.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with more improvements to the ffb and physics, tbf. Both casual and hardcore driving fans will benefit from it. But PD shouldn't pander to hardcore sim racer, imo. Racing games like GT and Forza are popular for a reason.
 
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38,478
Australia
The Bronx
I still don't think you get that part of the GT series has always been accessibility, its easy for anyone to pick up and play and a whole generation have grown up playing GT games.

If you had "hardcore" physics in GT you'd lose that. Whilst you might prefer that, its not going to encourage casuals to join in. If you want sales you can't alienate them. AC/ACC are niche games and have limited appeal to the wider market, as the sales show.

For every one person that walked away from GT because of the physics there would be many, many more from AC/ACC.
I've played the series since 1997. I get it.

You must not be understanding the posts I quoted and replied to.

My point is still valid. You're speaking about sales. My point was about responding to concerns of ffb and physics. Players do use wheels and they don't have to be hardcore players that prefer simulated real life physics.

If you haven't played the games that were brought up, you may be missing the ease of driving those vehicles. It's something Kaz himself admitted to. Driving is not meant to be hard.
The games mentioned aren't tiring. PD aren't going to lose a fanbase with those physics. They'd actually produce better racing for players than what we're seeing right now.

I mean, that's what got players interested in the first place. The real feel of driving a car.
 
509
Italy
Italy
I've played the series since 1997. I get it.

You must not be understanding the posts I quoted and replied to.

My point is still valid. You're speaking about sales. My point was about responding to concerns of ffb and physics. Players do use wheels and they don't have to be hardcore players that prefer simulated real life physics.

If you haven't played the games that were brought up, you may be missing the ease of driving those vehicles. It's something Kaz himself admitted to. Driving is not meant to be hard.
The games mentioned aren't tiring. PD aren't going to lose a fanbase with those physics. They'd actually produce better racing for players than what we're seeing right now.

I mean, that's what got players interested in the first place. The real feel of driving a car.
Exacltly,and i'll add that i don't understand those who say that if GT becomes to realistic nobody is going to buy it, it doesn't make sence since it is publicized as "the real driving simulator", surely those who buy it want a realistic simulator just like the title says, if not they wouldn't even have bought seeing it written in block letters on the front of the game cover
 
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451
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
My point is still valid. You're speaking about sales. My point was about responding to concerns of ffb and physics. Players do use wheels and they don't have to be hardcore players that prefer simulated real life physics.

If you haven't played the games that were brought up, you may be missing the ease of driving those vehicles. It's something Kaz himself admitted to. Driving is not meant to be hard.
The games mentioned aren't tiring.

It isn't tiring or hard for you, but it is for casuals, which is why they don't bother with hardcore sims, look how many people are racing in GTA5 for example. Forza Horizon, NFS, GRID, The Crew - to casuals they are racing games. Green light goes out, they go blasting away with their auto gearbox and round the first corner flat out, cold tyres, low pressures, weight transfer all mean nothing.

If you want more advanced physics it becomes more difficult to drive because you added the realism you're talking about, not least you have to start adding a whole bunch of variables.

You take away that ease of playing, you lose those people from the fan / playerbase.

By pitching the physics where they are at its a middle ground in to adding some realism without maing it a pain in the arse. Imagine our arcade game playing casual, starts a race - cold tyres, brakes, damp track, race starts, first corner and they're in a gravel trap. Get going, next corner same happens. How long do you think they're going to play when they barely understand whats going on, let alone know what to do ?

GT lets you have all the nanny aids and teaches you a little bit, so the average casual can jump straight in and race, then someone else starts going faster, so they find out if you turn off traction, ABS etc you can go faster if you learn more.

Who knows, they might get really in to it and progress to hardcore sims, more likely they'll be happy with their lot and play it to that level and they're quite happy with that.

PD aren't going to lose a fanbase with those physics.

I disagree, you have to recognise that many on this forum are far, far more in to simulations, physic engines etc than your average casual. I have friends who will race in GTA or arcade games, maybe GT Sport a bit but don't want to mess with setups, gear ratios etc, they prefer BOP racing. They have tried Assetto Corsa, Project Cars etc and find it unwelcoming and too difficult, don't want to mess with setups, tyre temperatures,compound selection etc. They far outweigh the people who enjoy sim games. Anecdotal I know. but from looking around general gaming forums, the pattern seems to match.

I mean, that's what got players interested in the first place. The real feel of driving a car.

Was the original game on PS1 like driving a real car ? I don't think so at all, but it was better than arcade games and in imho thats where GT is still aimed at.
 
20,872
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
You only have to look at the GTS stats to understand where most players are in this regard. Upwards of 11 million players and still a staggering 93% of people have done 10 or fewer races in sport mode, 82% have done none at all.

https://www.kudosprime.com/gts/stats.php?stat_preset=sport_play_ratio

Those are insane numbers. We don't have the stats to see exactly what they are doing in the game but it's absolutely clear that professional style, serious racing is not it.
 
107
Belgium
Belgium
We don't have the stats to see exactly what they are doing in the game but it's absolutely clear that professional style, serious racing is not it.

Collecting and tuning/editing my favourites. Not much fun GT Sport, for the collecting part... I don't like races that last longer than 15 minutes. So I hope that there will be an event in GT7 like the Capri races in GT4 where you would get the Toyota RSC rally car that you could sell for 260.000 cr. Easy money so I can expand my garage quickly.
 

snc

295
Poland
Poland
You only have to look at the GTS stats to understand where most players are in this regard. Upwards of 11 million players and still a staggering 93% of people have done 10 or fewer races in sport mode, 82% have done none at all.

https://www.kudosprime.com/gts/stats.php?stat_preset=sport_play_ratio

Those are insane numbers. We don't have the stats to see exactly what they are doing in the game but it's absolutely clear that professional style, serious racing is not it.
on the other hand topsplit Fia races at least in Europe are very competitive with many high level drivers
 
38,478
Australia
The Bronx
It isn't tiring or hard for you, but it is for casuals, which is why they don't bother with hardcore sims, look how many people are racing in GTA5 for example. Forza Horizon, NFS, GRID, The Crew - to casuals they are racing games. Green light goes out, they go blasting away with their auto gearbox and round the first corner flat out, cold tyres, low pressures, weight transfer all mean nothing.

If you want more advanced physics it becomes more difficult to drive because you added the realism you're talking about, not least you have to start adding a whole bunch of variables.

You take away that ease of playing, you lose those people from the fan / playerbase.

By pitching the physics where they are at its a middle ground in to adding some realism without maing it a pain in the arse. Imagine our arcade game playing casual, starts a race - cold tyres, brakes, damp track, race starts, first corner and they're in a gravel trap. Get going, next corner same happens. How long do you think they're going to play when they barely understand whats going on, let alone know what to do ?

GT lets you have all the nanny aids and teaches you a little bit, so the average casual can jump straight in and race, then someone else starts going faster, so they find out if you turn off traction, ABS etc you can go faster if you learn more.

Who knows, they might get really in to it and progress to hardcore sims, more likely they'll be happy with their lot and play it to that level and they're quite happy with that.



I disagree, you have to recognise that many on this forum are far, far more in to simulations, physic engines etc than your average casual. I have friends who will race in GTA or arcade games, maybe GT Sport a bit but don't want to mess with setups, gear ratios etc, they prefer BOP racing. They have tried Assetto Corsa, Project Cars etc and find it unwelcoming and too difficult, don't want to mess with setups, tyre temperatures,compound selection etc. They far outweigh the people who enjoy sim games. Anecdotal I know. but from looking around general gaming forums, the pattern seems to match.



Was the original game on PS1 like driving a real car ? I don't think so at all, but it was better than arcade games and in imho thats where GT is still aimed at.
Who says players have to start on cold tyres every race? There's Arcade and Simulation mode. There doesn't have to be cold tyres in Arcade Mode. I'm sure you know, even the sim games allow for optimum tyre temps and surfaces. So, that's not a problem.

Again, addressing the ffb and physics, it doesn't alienate the casual player. Plus, the same person that drives wild in GTA, has to adjust anyway, when they race in Gran Turismo.
 
20,872
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
snc
on the other hand topsplit Fia races at least in Europe are very competitive with many high level drivers
Sure, not claiming otherwise. There seems to be a pretty consistent 50,000 people regularly taking part in the FIA events and obviously the top end is very competitive.

In isolation those are very strong numbers that some other Sims would dream of but my point is that it's a tiny fraction of the overall playerbase.
 
38,478
Australia
The Bronx
To add to my post, why are GT Sport sales down from the other games? I don't it's the physics. If other players are running to Forza, etc, it's because those games offer more of a variety in replayability. GT Sport already lost potential sales due to the online only portion of the game. I certainly didn't buy it day one. I bought it the following March.

With Gran Turismo 7 pushing the return to past games, that's what sold the series. Car collecting, tuning, customising, realistic replays. PD aren't going to lose sales because the ffb improves and the physics get better.
 
55
United States
United States
I think ffb and physics are appropriate to focus on realism. I was very uninterested in GT Sport (Also was living abroad for 2 years.) so I didn't buy it until March of this year, played it for awhile and felt the need for nostalgia so I got back into GT4 last month.

GT Sport is MUCH easier to control precisely than GT4. Advancements in physics don't negatively affect accessibility...Or at least they don't have to if you implement them correctly.

What hurt GT Sports sales is online only and catering to the 1% of PS4 users. Hopefully they learned putting players into a box wasn't ideal.

How the cars look, sound, and drive are good to focus on realism. But not everything, as people still pick up a controller or wheel for escapism. It's about the balance.
 
3,054
Slovakia
Slovakia
dawko-san
I think ffb and physics are appropriate to focus on realism. I was very uninterested in GT Sport (Also was living abroad for 2 years.) so I didn't buy it until March of this year, played it for awhile and felt the need for nostalgia so I got back into GT4 last month.

GT Sport is MUCH easier to control precisely than GT4. Advancements in physics don't negatively affect accessibility...Or at least they don't have to if you implement them correctly.

What hurt GT Sports sales is online only and catering to the 1% of PS4 users. Hopefully they learned putting players into a box wasn't ideal.

How the cars look, sound, and drive are good to focus on realism. But not everything, as people still pick up a controller or wheel for escapism. It's about the balance.

Yeah I was just gonna say, I play GT2 from time to time and man, is that game difficult... I hardly think that anyone would say it has more advanced physics than GT SPORT ;)
 
55
United States
United States
Yeah I was just gonna say, I play GT2 from time to time and man, is that game difficult... I hardly think that anyone would say it has more advanced physics than GT SPORT ;)

Oh yeah, I dusted off that one as well and struggled haha. I was able to go from not playing any video games in 2 years to getting golds easily in the "license" portion of Sport. I could get golds in GT2 with a fair bit of effort but GT4 requires some serious effort from me haha. And it just comes down to having a feel of what to expect from the car, in the older titles there's a level of "numbness." Hard to explain but I was able to get a much clearer sense of the car with sport.

Of course I also think the requirements for gold time's in Sport are just plain easier as well. But my point is controlling the car was easier haha.
(Isn't there a quote from Kaz saying something like driving a car shouldn't be inherently difficult or something?)
 

ScottPye20

I want to be monkey
Premium
10,705
Australia
Melbourne
ScottPye20
With Gran Turismo 7 pushing the return to past games, that's what sold the series. Car collecting, tuning, customising, realistic replays. PD aren't going to lose sales because the ffb improves and the physics get better.
Is it any wonder why they're going back? Some of the most critically acclaimed games of the last decade have had fantastic single-player experiences... Online hasn't "taken over" like soo many people expected it to years ago, so this is very much the right direction. Kaz has obviously had a change of heart and realised that the GT Sport direction is flawed. It's not what the fans want.
 
187
Canada
Canada
We'll find out. So far, all we see are that Tuning Parts Shop and GTAuto returning.

Only other guesstimating are Kaz speaking about us being able to build our cars. It was mentioned at the time of the Mario Andretti YouTube build.
If they make it similar to forza's then a lot would probably enjoy it, something like changeable engines or custom paints on cars involved in motor sports.

Gt auto of the past didn't quite allow for those kinds of luxury.
 
38,478
Australia
The Bronx
If they make it similar to forza's then a lot would probably enjoy it, something like changeable engines or custom paints on cars involved in motor sports.

Gt auto of the past didn't quite allow for those kinds of luxury.
The old wings, headlight covers and gauges from GTAuto and wheel size options, would probably come back.
Some form of Racing modification are anyone's guess. I'd definitely welcome Forza type customisation.

I can only think any engine builds would be the manufacturer engine. Swapping a K20A from an EP3 Civic Type R and placing it in a Honda Fit, yields a Spoon Fit. I doubt it, but I wouldn't imagine a K20A/Mini Cooper S '65 conversion.
 
13,878
United States
Los Angeles, CA
lImaRobotl
I can only think any engine builds would be the manufacturer engine. Swapping a K20A from an EP3 Civic Type R and placing it in a Honda Fit, yields a Spoon Fit. I doubt it, but I wouldn't imagine a K20A/Mini Cooper S '65 conversion.
Eh, they can very much go the Forza route and just give generic engines designations, that are very much the actual engines they represent. We all know the TT 2.6L I6 is the RB26.
 

Faultier

(Banned)
251
You only have to look at the GTS stats to understand where most players are in this regard. Upwards of 11 million players and still a staggering 93% of people have done 10 or fewer races in sport mode, 82% have done none at all.

https://www.kudosprime.com/gts/stats.php?stat_preset=sport_play_ratio

Those are insane numbers. We don't have the stats to see exactly what they are doing in the game but it's absolutely clear that professional style, serious racing is not it.

Very interessting and since I have no ps plus and no intention getting it I am aming these 82 %
 
38,478
Australia
The Bronx
Eh, they can very much go the Forza route and just give generic engines designations, that are very much the actual engines they represent. We all know the TT 2.6L I6 is the RB26.
I'm with that, but how PD think, dunno...
 
1,220
United States
somewhere near Trial Mountain
oldbusanubis
We'll find out. So far, all we see are that Tuning Parts Shop and GTAuto returning.

Only other guesstimating are Kaz speaking about us being able to build our cars. It was mentioned at the time of the Mario Andretti YouTube build.
I wonder if that car will ever return or if it's lost to time like the Senna content and several GT6 premium cars.