Gran Turismo 7: Latest news and discussion thread
- Thread starter sems4arsenal
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https://blog.playstation.com/2021/0...rs-most-anticipated-games-of-2021-and-beyond/
“Racing games are always the easiest way for players to feel the true capabilities of next generation gaming. I’m extremely excited to see what next generation experiences this title will offer. Hurry up and release it already!”
– Hideaki Itsuno, Director, Capcom – Devil May Cry 5: Special Edition
“Racing games are always the easiest way for players to feel the true capabilities of next generation gaming. I’m extremely excited to see what next generation experiences this title will offer. Hurry up and release it already!”
– Hideaki Itsuno, Director, Capcom – Devil May Cry 5: Special Edition
Yes, I’ve already postet this link with upcoming games of 2021, with GT7 with big letters inside
https://click.playstationemail.com/...6d6bdd71448fdce40a6109f155d4b95954240bed95d33
Both are from official side standing for 2021. See post above.
Maybe, we get still this month a big surprise for GT7, too, after Ratchet. Both release dates were note confirmed stated.
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- 8,826
- Ottawa
- Automotive_Buff
To do that one race, they practice over and over on simulators, on the track, etc. Something I, and several other drivers would do before an FIA race.
No one in their right mind runs a single campaign race on GT 8 times back to back. If you do, then you're very inefficient.
It offers replayability and a sense of purpose; a goal.
The game offers you a single player "campaign" that's more akin to Scenarios on BeamNG.drive.; once you complete those you have Circuit Experience; once you complete those you have Mission Challenges, and so on.
After all that you can run online lobbies for fun, join them, or setup an auto drive endurance race overnight.
You can also enter Sport Mode and run the daily races. Maybe even partake in the FIA season.
And yet no mention of online lobbies or Sport Mode. Two avenues clearly offered and yet ignored.
Nor have you mentioned Daily Workout, prize cars from the challenges, or birthday gifts.
Organically earning credits is not that difficult. If you make it a goal to earn credits, you'll hate the game. I earn more, used to anyway I havent turned on my PS4 in months, having fun in the game than by conscientiously grinding.
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- 29,910
- Cuddington, Cheshire
- JDA1982
Grinding is bad game design, we've been here before. A good game will require you to successfully complete each obejctive once. Gran Turismo 3 and Gran Turismo 4 were very well balanced games, for some reason Polyphony threw out that formula for GT5 onwards and the games have suffered as a result. Less competitions in the GT modes and more grinding.
I honestly do not understand why people think grinding is a good game mechanic, it does not give me a sense of purpose or accomplishment, it gives me a sense of "why bother" when it takes as long as it does in GT Sport to afford the top cars. I don't get much time to spend on video games, and what little time I have is split between the games I have.
Of course it sohuld take some time to reach the pinnacle of the game, acquitre the rarest cars etc. But you sohuld gradually progress there naturally, not have to keep repeating the same meta events over and over. The fact that there are meta events itself is a broken mechanic, each race should give rewards based on skill and time spent on that event. A 30 minute race at Emeral levelshould pay 3 times as much as a race that would take 10 minutes to complete etc. The race rewards witihn GT Sport are pretty random at times.
I honestly do not understand why people think grinding is a good game mechanic, it does not give me a sense of purpose or accomplishment, it gives me a sense of "why bother" when it takes as long as it does in GT Sport to afford the top cars. I don't get much time to spend on video games, and what little time I have is split between the games I have.
Of course it sohuld take some time to reach the pinnacle of the game, acquitre the rarest cars etc. But you sohuld gradually progress there naturally, not have to keep repeating the same meta events over and over. The fact that there are meta events itself is a broken mechanic, each race should give rewards based on skill and time spent on that event. A 30 minute race at Emeral levelshould pay 3 times as much as a race that would take 10 minutes to complete etc. The race rewards witihn GT Sport are pretty random at times.
- 8,826
- Ottawa
- Automotive_Buff
Never said it was a good game mechanic. Grind mechanics are often used on games that don't have much to offer in the first place apart from their main objective.
In the case of GTS, it's an eSports title with some Granturismo flair sprinkled on. You want to get that Ferrari P4 which is completely useless in Sport Mode? Sure. But you'll have to revisit the game every day to earn enough credits to get it, since you're not playing the main mode.
It's just a form of user retention whether that is by choice or necessity. We'll see how GT7 pans out, maybe the economy will be more akin to that of GT4's.
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- 29,910
- Cuddington, Cheshire
- JDA1982
The e-Sports angle would be more valid if GT5 and GT6 weren't grindy as well (until the special online events came round that paid out considerably larger sums at least). E-Sports is not why GT Sport's economty is so unbalanced, because it was pretty unbalanced in GT5 and GT6 as well. It was perfectly fine in GT4 and earlier titles.
If you don't think it's a good mechanic why exactley are you white knighting it and arguing against those pointing out it's not good?
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- 735
- Maryland, USA
I really hope we can do crazy stuff like this on Pikes Peak if Polyphony puts their (exclusive) license to use in GT7.
https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a...TW&utm_medium=social-media&utm_source=twitter
https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a...TW&utm_medium=social-media&utm_source=twitter
- 29,910
- Cuddington, Cheshire
- JDA1982
Now it's tarmac all the way up, pretty much anything goes these days.
- 735
- Maryland, USA
Yup, before I was really against paving it... but its really hard to be against people entering a 2021-spec Indycar into the hillclimb. That's just awesome.
On the topic of the hillclimb being in GT, I hope PD doesn't end up by adding invisible walls on the edge of the track like they do with all their other rally courses. Otherwise, its going to be embarrassing... that is, if they actually add it to the game.
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- 8,826
- Ottawa
- Automotive_Buff
I honestly don't remember GT5 and GT6 being grindy. Maybe because it's been so long but I never had issues with them, or maybe because I got the games way after launch once the online events were added, and also the fact that you could modify the game saves and 100% the game with one click. So I might be biased or flawed in my own view.
I'm defending the mechanism because of the weak arguments posed against it. I've brought up the fact that you can earn credits through other avenues offered in the game and I'm still met with "YEA BUT THERE'S STILL GRINDING".
Either put up with that fact and learn to enjoy the game for what it is, or just stop playing it altogether and wait for GT7. I dont know what else to say.
We've brought these issues up countless times on the wish threads and we know PD monitors these threads to some extent. Whether they are willing to add to/change aspects of the game is up to them.
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- 1,207
- Melbourne
- Nicky-Boy_7
Indeed mate.
I get the feeling that something may be coming our way soon, but as we all know "soon" in the GT vernacular means it could be today... or in 6 months.
I get the feeling that something may be coming our way soon, but as we all know "soon" in the GT vernacular means it could be today... or in 6 months.
- 29,910
- Cuddington, Cheshire
- JDA1982
There's nothing weak about the arguments agianst it, the weak argument is "deal with it or stop playing" that's playground reasoning. A mechanic that forces players to grind events for 30 hours or however long to obtain one car is bad, there's been comprehensive answers given as to why that is and how it could be resolved.
There's a reason the same issues aren't raised against GT3 or GT4 and that's beucase they required considerably less grinding yet earning the best cars still wasn't easy or achieved within a couple of hours of starting the game.
The progression should be natural, a game should not require grinding to complete if it's well designed. The economy in GT Sport is unbalanced, but sure, stick with your playground logic
.Except they absolutely do, because it IS the most efficient way to earn credits in GT Sport. That's why they're called meta events.
Look, GTP even wrote an article on it:
https://www.gtplanet.net/easiest-ways-make-money-xp-gt-sport/
Why do you think people do those, even on top of their regular sport mode playing for many of them? Because otherwise earning credits is pedestrian.
Like I said, I've completed all of the single player events you've mentioned and still fell short of being able to buy ONE 20m car. You think that is fine? You can run lobbies or go online but as mentioned, it's a slow way to earn credits. Well, the whole game is slow, but that's about the slowest.
..and you don't think that even considering doing something like this indicates a problem, no?
You can, but again you earn credits in those modes very slowly, especially if you're not that good. You think someone running around in 8th-10th most races is earning millions of credits?
So you're saying as long as you forget about earning credits, earning credits is not difficult. Genius. I should have thought of that, I'd have surely had 250 million credits in no time.
Difficult to earn credits? No. Far too slow and time consuming? Yes. As per that article even if you do the fastest meta event, over and over, the best you can do is approximately 25,000cr per minute of racing. By my math that is 13.3 hours to earn 20 million credits, enough to buy one of the cars. Rinse and repeat for another 13.3 hours to get the second.
If I want to drive the 10 most expensive cars in the game, and I do, then I'll need 157.5m credits, assuming I don't get lucky with a prize car (and I didn't so far). Are you following with the math? That is a total of 105 hours. And that's just pure driving time. You also have to add on all the loading and menu times for a real total.
Extend that to the most expensive 50 cars and the total is just under 225m. I'll let you work that one out.
If you aren't grinding those meta events, it's much, much slower. So please, do try to convince me that earning credits in GTS is fast and that it's reasonable to have several 10-20 million credit cars in the game. Because clearly I and others are missing something, other than forgetting about it and playing the game for a minimum of 105 hours for 10 cars.
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- 3,276
- France
For a casual player like me, GTSport is dead. I understand no new tracks but a new car each month is not something too crazy IMO. Forza 8 is at least a year away but FH4 is still a very active game with new cars. I don't mind if GT7 is not ready for 2021, I just need something new to do in GTSport.
- 1,207
- Melbourne
- Nicky-Boy_7
I've had to resort to creating challenges in GT6 to get me by 'cause I skipped GTS.
Took all of a few hours to get the Red Bull Fan Car and Tomahawk X 'round the 'Ring in less than 4 minutes. I stopped there 'cause it was so-intense I couldn't do it to myself anymore even 'though I knew I could've knocked 15 seconds off the 3:50 for the X and 3:59 for the Fan Car if I'd been able to endure the intensity for a few more hours.
Unfortunately it's tough to sustain enough interest in GT6's Arcade Mode after 7 years to see my driving more than once every month or two.
I won't complain 'though; I'm grateful to be able to get behind the wheel once in a while to help see me through to GT7...
Took all of a few hours to get the Red Bull Fan Car and Tomahawk X 'round the 'Ring in less than 4 minutes. I stopped there 'cause it was so-intense I couldn't do it to myself anymore even 'though I knew I could've knocked 15 seconds off the 3:50 for the X and 3:59 for the Fan Car if I'd been able to endure the intensity for a few more hours.
Unfortunately it's tough to sustain enough interest in GT6's Arcade Mode after 7 years to see my driving more than once every month or two.
I won't complain 'though; I'm grateful to be able to get behind the wheel once in a while to help see me through to GT7...
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- 3,611
- PNW
- happycorey
I've had to resort to creating challenges in GT6 to get me by 'cause I skipped GTS.
Took all of a few hours to get the Red Bull Fan Car and Tomahawk X 'round the 'Ring in less than 4 minutes. I stopped there 'cause it was so-intense I couldn't do it to myself anymore even 'though I knew I could've knocked 15 seconds off the 3:50 for the X and 3:59 for the Fan Car if I'd been able to endure the intensity for a few more hours.
Unfortunately it's tough to sustain enough interest in GT6's Arcade Mode after 7 years to see my driving more than once every month or two.
I won't complain 'though; I'm grateful to be able to get behind the wheel once in a while to help see me through to GT7...
I can understand the desire to not want to touch GTS but if you have a PS4 you're doing yourself a disservice as a GT fan by not enjoying how great GTS feels.
- 15,074
- Melbourne
- ScottPuss20
- CheetahsMeow
- 8,826
- Ottawa
- Automotive_Buff
How is that playground logic? We're arguing about changing a 3 year old stand-in game at the end of its leash.
Never has the game forced you to play for that amount of time to enjoy what it offers. You gain most of the cars needed organically by beating events and challenges. You gain the credits to buy the better Gr3 or 4 or 2 or 1 car through racing. You gain mileage points to upgrade said cars organically through racing.
So what exactly is the issue? Apart from a collector's viewpoint, you have everything to enjoy the game thrown at you at your feet. There's no challenge. Most of the cult cars aren't expensive.
I'm not defending the mechanism as-is in GTSport. I defended the mechanism in principle, I recognized the imbalance, and offered you solutions.
But you still want to bang that drum and ignore all advice.
While I agree, completion of a game depends on the parameters you set. You can say you've complete the game just by doing all the challenges and campaign races, or by saying you finally achieved an SS rating on Sport Mode.
Not everyone is a collector and having historical Le Mans cars isn't appealing to some. Some people are content with what they have.
The economy in GT Sport is unbalanced, but sure, stick with your playground logic
Ya got me. 👍
I don't have functional fixedness to overcome this oh-so-difficult-woe-is-me mechanic.
And yet there I was.. enjoying the game for what it was and having a blast driving my historical Le Mans cars, drag racing my muscle cars, drifting some classic JDMs, running in Gr3 and Gr4 leagues... all the while earning credits.
Never said it wasnt a problem. I offered a solution.
Then get better? I'm sorry I'm not going to give you pity points for not being competitive enough. That kind of logic gets you nowhere in life.
If you're playing GTS just to collect cars then you're going to have a horrible time. If you actually make an effort and play Sport Mode regularly then you'll earn more than you do in campaign races.
But that's an argument for a completely different topic because of their changes to track and car selections, Sport Mode became a chore and it wasn't fun anymore.
If you're spending 105 hours driving in a loop to earn credits then I'm sorry. Your logic is immensely flawed for what you want to achieve, let alone highly inefficient.
One solution:
You set up a 12 hrs autodrive endurance race overnight with 4 drivers, including yourself. Have 3 of the drivers leave the race once it starts.
At the end of 12 hours, you would have earned 6mil. You want to increase your earnings? Increase the time of the race or increase the starting line up.
Track:
Route X
Time:
12hr
Participants:
4; 6; 8; 10
Earning:
6 mil; 8 mil; 10mil; 13mil
Earnings are approximations from memory; I've never had more than 10 participants to test it more. I also didnt test specific categories such as Gr3 only or Gr4, etc. It was either all hyper cars or GrX Vision GT cars. I always did it after some tandems in Drift lobbies.
So to tally it up, using the best case scenario, you get approximately 13mil/night. If you don't have the credit limit unlocked, you would reach the cap every other night and buy your desired car to reset it. If that's all you want to do, then in 20 days you'll have those 10 oh-so-precious cars.
Is it the best? Maybe. A lot better than doing an oval race over and over again. Is there an issue? Of course, no one denies this. Are there work arounds? Clearly. Should there be? No.
You work with what you have. PD is certainly not going to be paying GTS any more attention. Let's hope they improve the economy in GT7.
Another solution that's behind a pay wall (dont personally agree with it):
If you dont have friends or dont want to set it up, you can always try the LH DLC and plan out the max amount of earnings to collect those cars.
The LH DLC is do-able on controller. The only race that will give you trouble is Willow Springs. LH's times are fair. Challenging, but fair.
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- 8,826
- Ottawa
- Automotive_Buff
Clearly you didn't read the entire post then.
I never denied there was an issue. I simply stated that the issue isn't as grave as you made it out to be. I offered you solutions and yet here we are going around this merry-go-round, on the wrong thread, may I add.
And they should consider your method of mind-numbing oval racing for 105hrs of driving time??
Again... before we start another round, not denying the issue... just stated better solutions.
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- 1,207
- Melbourne
- Nicky-Boy_7
I hear you Corey, and I'd be playing it for sure, but I skipped the PS4 and GTS altogether.
So, my M.O. of sticking with GT's classic titles and purchasing consoles only for it continues... with an 8-year delay between GT6->7 in this case...
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- 13,728
- Adelaide
- Neomone
If you got them way after launch you probably didn't run into the issues. At launch GT6 was pretty grindy, and at launch GT5 required grinding to progress. You literally couldn't get through the single player modes without repeating events multiple times.
Polyphony is pretty terrible at designing stable economies - at release they tend towards being overly stingy and then as they release content they tend to make it overpay massively. What is really required is making it so that players get a reasonably consistent income no matter what they choose to do, as then it removes any incentives to do the most "efficient" events even if they're not what the player is into. Let the player choose freely how they want to spend their time in game and reward them for it.
Then when there's a consistent income per unit time, it becomes much easier to tune how long you want a player to have to play for to afford a car. There are probably reasonable arguments to be made for anywhere between 1 and 10 hours playtime for the very top level cars depending how many there are and what the design for the rest of the game looks like. But more than 10 hours play for a single car in a game seems a bit bonkers to me, and when you know that there's hundreds of cars and that the game is at least in part designed as a "gotta-catch-'em-all" style collect-a-thon, I'd strongly lean towards not more than 1 or 2 hours per car. Hell, just driving 500 different cars for 20 minutes each is nearly 170 hours of gameplay, and that's with no restrictions at all. Realistically, the costs shouldn't be set to restrict the players as there's absolutely no need to with the amount of content in a GT game- the purpose should be to give a sense of reward and ownership to having a car, and the cost should be as low as possible while still achieving that.
And if the game design requires players to leave the game running without playing it in order to reasonably afford stuff (auto-drive, rubber-banding controllers, etc.) that just seems like the game designers have failed to do their jobs. It's all well and good for people to find ways around it if that's what you're given, but the argument is that it's bad design and that it absolutely shouldn't find it's way into the next iteration of the game (in much the same way that it should have died out after GT5).
- 29,910
- Cuddington, Cheshire
- JDA1982
No, we're arguing that it's a bad mechanic and hoping it doesn't carry over into GT7. Given we're in the GT7 forum, GT7 is the application here. GT Sports economy is very bad, there are a number of ways to fix it which have been discussed, and hopefully for GT7 PD do that.
I'm yet to get a historic Le Mans car that can win that event. I need one, but Ive not won one. Where am I guarenteed to win this car that I need?
Given a huge part of Gran Turismo is the collection aspect that highlights a pretty big issue.
You're solutions are cheat or don't play the game. Playground logic, when what we really should be hoping for is that PD provide a better in game economy in GT7.
Yet there is an event specifically for these cars, so if you want to complete the game and win all of the events you must have one.Arguing that not everyone is bothered about winning every race and different people are satisfied to reach different points of the game to consider thier experience complete isn't relevent here, the game is designed the way it is and that is what is being discussed.
I'm not saying you can't enjoy the game as it is, I'm simply highlighting a very broken mechanic that hopefully will be fixed in future games, i/.e. GT7. Given that PD do read these forums it's important people do say what they do and don't like about the games openly and honestly.
Yes, cheat or don't play the game. Much better solution than PD actually fixing the issue.
And for the vast majorty of players who don't play online?
I assume this requires PS Plus and in addition it's obviousely cheating the game. Sure you can earn Cr that way but it just highlights that what I'm saying is correct. The economy in the game is broken. You seem to be agreeing with this and then excusing it, which is fine if that's your pursuasion, but I'd rather PD notice that people disliked it in GT Sport and fix it for GT7.
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No, I don't expect people to grind out one race for 105 hours. The point was that was the fastest possible known method and it still takes a ludicrous 105 hours. Other, less mind torturing methods take a lot longer. Way longer.
You say you never denied there is an issue but you do keep claiming it's simple to earn credits when clearly it isn't when you have to resort to grinding or leaving your console on overnight wasting electricity with a cheaty method that requires several friends to help if you want to drive certain cars.
Which just circles back around to the original point I made, the game should not have "realistic" priced cars if they don't also have realistic ways to earn credits, or other game mechanics which give you them at certain milestones. Which if you don't disagree with, I'm wondering why you replied in the first place.
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