Gran Turismo 7: Latest news and discussion thread

[Samus]

Gran Turismo is also for kids. Stop that egocentricity where only you exist, the tests work because they teach basic concepts that are universal, a kid and old people can learn how to brake or whatever.

Do they though? Kids these days are in a different world to where we were in 1997. Very young children know how cars work at a basic level, and Gran Turismo is also not the only kid on the block any more.

What do you think the license tests teach them that they couldn't learn by going out on a track with a virtual instructor, for example? The 0-1000m stopping tests don't teach them much about braking, they just have you learn where you need to press the button so you stop in the right place. The trial and error of doing that doesn't teach them how to anticipate braking strength for different corners. It doesn't tell you what happens when you brake while turning, or any other useful information.

The cornering tests, go around X corner in under 16.100 seconds. That might eventually start to teach people the out-in-out principle but again, why couldn't you do that on a circuit, so you're constantly taking different corners in a flowing manner, rather than trying to find the trick to get from your 16.202 time?

I had the same problem with circuit experience in GTS. You can spend so much time perfecting the 2nd or 3rd sector by the time you come to do the full lap you've forgotten how to take the first sector. If you were just tasked with lapping consistently, with no breaks, it'd be a lot more intuitive.

Then you have the 'racecraft' tests which say you must overtake 3 cars in 5 corners to get 'gold'. What is that teaching? Ram your way through at any costs or you don't win. It doesn't teach setting an overtake up, forcing the car ahead into an error, etc.

There are countless better ways to teach people than what PD came up with 25 years ago. It was great then, not so much now.

 

[05XR8]

PD has the perfect way to teach players the basics in GT4: Follow the GT-R Pace Car.
A funny thing Kaz said about why he chose High Speed Ring. He feels it's a good circuit for beginners. If this video are an option to learn circuits, it's easy to implement for all players to learn acceleration, braking and cornering. Using this function at High Speed Ring would be a great tool for newcomers.

 

[JD_18]

Do they though? Kids these days are in a different world to where we were in 1997. Very young children know how cars work at a basic level, and Gran Turismo is also not the only kid on the block any more.

What do you think the license tests teach them that they couldn't learn by going out on a track with a virtual instructor, for example? The 0-1000m stopping tests don't teach them much about braking, they just have you learn where you need to press the button so you stop in the right place. The trial and error of doing that doesn't teach them how to anticipate braking strength for different corners. It doesn't tell you what happens when you brake while turning, or any other useful information.

The cornering tests, go around X corner in under 16.100 seconds. That might eventually start to teach people the out-in-out principle but again, why couldn't you do that on a circuit, so you're constantly taking different corners in a flowing manner, rather than trying to find the trick to get from your 16.202 time?

I had the same problem with circuit experience in GTS. You can spend so much time perfecting the 2nd or 3rd sector by the time you come to do the full lap you've forgotten how to take the first sector. If you were just tasked with lapping consistently, with no breaks, it'd be a lot more intuitive.

Then you have the 'racecraft' tests which say you must overtake 3 cars in 5 corners to get 'gold'. What is that teaching? Ram your way through at any costs or you don't win. It doesn't teach setting an overtake up, forcing the car ahead into an error, etc.

There are countless better ways to teach people than what PD came up with 25 years ago. It was great then, not so much now.

Thays why I say egocenthric, its not about you or your experience.
I didnt say the actual sistem is perfect (A newly born guess from taking us for fools), but the main core of the idea; the school and licenses are great and part of the GT Iconic things.

Anoher things I want to say, is to say that something old is bad just because it is old is a simple and superficial fallacy.

Right, it's so egocentric of me to suggest that more than one way of teaching exists and that other people might find a different way more helpful. My bad, I'll see myself out.

I did not say that. Read again.

What I mean is that it is quite self-centered to think that just because it does not work for you is wrong, or the the idea of you have the solution and PD as those of us who support the classic way are nostalgic fools.

The existence of different ways of educating does not turn the classic into a bad thing.

 

[Samus]

Thays why I say egocenthric, its not about you or your experience.
I didnt say the actual sistem is perfect (A newly born guess from taking us for fools), but the main core of the idea; the school and licenses are great and part of the GT Iconic things.

Anoher things I want to say, is to say that something old is bad just because it is old is a simple and superficial fallacy.

I did not say that. Read again.

What I mean is that it is quite self-centered to think that just because it does not work for you is wrong, or the the idea of you have the solution and PD as those of us who support the classic way are nostalgic fools.

The existence of different ways of educating does not turn the classic into a bad thing.

No, it's not about me. I've given you objective problems with the current solution and objectively better ways to do it.

Also how is it any different for you saying the current system is great? Its not about you, dude...

 

[HarVee]

PD has the perfect way to teach players the basics in GT4: Follow the GT-R Pace Car.

Never played GT4, so what happens if you ram the pace car? Do you instantly fail?

Also with so many pace car variants in GTS, this type of test would be a good way to make some use out of them.

 

[dimassa19]

How about the return of the spectator airhorns?

By the way, yesterday I heard the "ronc ronc ronc roooonc" for the first time in real life. (at 7:44)

 

[05XR8]

Never played GT4, so what happens if you ram the pace car? Do you instantly fail?

Also with so many pace car variants in GTS, this type of test would be a good way to make some use out of them.

The Pace Car slowed and speed up accordingly.

I agree about the various pace car usage. Basics could start with the Crown around beginner circuits. Then, Megane, M4, Hellcat, AMG and R35 as final. Good idea with your second point.

 

[Nielsen]

You've been on the forums since 2010, so presumably you're at least 11 years old. If you literally cannot think of any other possible ways to teach driving techniques other than what is available in Gran Turismo, then me telling you some isn't going to help. If you're actually so closed-minded that you believe that there is only one way to teach driving and that Polyphony found it in 1997, then anything I say as a response is just going to be something that you can dismiss out of hand.

So I skipped to the interesting part and pointed out the flaw in your thinking. That took the form of a rhetorical question, to better frame how nonsensical the idea that anything would have only one way of teaching it was.

I asked a legitimate question, and I don’t know why this had to inspire a rhetorical question in return, pointing out the flaw in my thinking. Flawed thinking would suggest I knew better than you, but I presented no counterargument to your viewpoint. I raised a question because I couldn’t think of anything myself in terms of making the license tests better. Also no idea how the latter justifies the tone you then opted for afterwards.

I was hoping we could have had a more civilized conversation. No reason to get so involved in a topic if your default response to discussion boils down to rhetorics and insults. It only leaves the impression that you don’t have a better solution for the design choice you blame PD for taking.

 

[JD_18]

No, it's not about me. I've given you objective problems with the current solution and objectively better ways to do it.

Also how is it any different for you saying the current system is great? Its not about you, dude...

I see a lot of cases in Kids, old people, womens etc. Is not about me.

I have to repeat this because you keep assuming the same thing. That there are different ways of teaching does not mean that some are worse or better, just different.

 

[Samus]

I see a lot of cases in Kids, old people, womens etc. Is not about me.

I have to repeat this because you keep assuming the same thing. That there are different ways of teaching does not mean that some are worse or better, just different.

Cases of what?

..and I have to repeat that I presented to you objective issues with the current system and objective reasons other methods would be better. Would you care you actually respond to those instead of pretending I just said "Old bad, new good".

 

[ImaRobot]

I see a lot of cases in Kids, old people, womens etc. Is not about me.

I have to repeat this because you keep assuming the same thing. That there are different ways of teaching does not mean that some are worse or better, just different.

You seem to be replying to things that people aren't saying. No one said its worse or better, that's what you're asuming, but after 20 years there should definitely be some developments in that area after so long. What people are doing though, is expressing their distaste for it. However, you coming in and saying that it's fine is doing the same thing you're accusing others of doing.

However, that there are different ways of teaching actually points to the fact that there are some that are actually worse or better, or else there wouldn't ever be a need to deviate from that path or question it.

 

[JD_18]

You seem to be replying to things that people aren't saying. No one said its worse or better, that's what you're asuming, but after 20 years there should definitely be some developments in that area after so long. What people are doing though, is expressing their distaste for it. However, you coming in and saying that it's fine is doing the same thing you're accusing others of doing.

However, that there are different ways of teaching actually points to the fact that there are some that are actually worse or better, or else there wouldn't ever be a need to deviate from that path or question it.

"No one said its worse or better, that's what you're asuming, but after 20 years there should definitely be some developments in that area after so long."

Why you have to change something that work? Because you are asuming "old its worse", if no you dont think that I dont know why you are so interested to changed, its a iconic part of the saga.

" that there are different ways of teaching actually points to the fact that there are some that are actually worse or better"

Do you know about diversity? culture? Thats I why say egocentrism.

Cases of what?

..and I have to repeat that I presented to you objective issues with the current system and objective reasons other methods would be better. Would you care you actually respond to those instead of pretending I just said "Old bad, new good".

Your "ideas" do not imply eliminating licenses, but improving them, which is exactly what I have said.

I never said they were perfect, but you assume again that they are.

 

[Nielsen]

I'd say Mission Challenge is more of a final exam test, you have to be already really good at the game to complete it (at least the GT4 one), while the Licenses are the education/training for that (you can pass at Bronze, albeit getting Gold is still hard).

So let’s say racecraft became part of the International B and International A licenses, as you suggested, what kind of content would you then put into Mission Challenge? Testing race craft is largely what Mission Challenge does, and for this reason you might as well regard it as a natural extension of the Driving School / License Centre. Even Circuit Experience falls under the educational umbrella because it’s also centered around improving the player’s skillset.

 

[Samus]

Your "ideas" do not imply eliminating licenses, but improving them, which is exactly what I have said.

So what exactly was your issue in the first place? We were always talking about improving them. You're the one who just steamed in and told us that they work and we were egotistical for suggesting ideas to better them.

 

[soc123_au]

I like the licence tests. I came to GT Sport after not having played a racing game since GT5. I found after a few years away from playing a racing game they were a nice way to ease back in.

The best learning tool though is circuit experience. I never bothered with it until I started playing sport mode and realised how terrible I was. Breaking the tracks into sectors is perfect for learning the quickest way around. I did find that on some tracks by the time I got to the full lap I had forgotten some of the early sectors (Nurb) but it's easy enough to back track if needed. The only thing I would like to see tweaked is the ability to keep lapping on the full lap part if you want to. Restarting breaks the rhythm. Also the ability to replay the sectors in your choice of car. I'm fine with the rewards being tied to whatever car, but as a tool being able to chose your car would be perfect.

 

[Imari]

Anoher things I want to say, is to say that something old is bad just because it is old is a simple and superficial fallacy.

Good thing no one said that then.

The existence of different ways of educating does not turn the classic into a bad thing.

Good thing I didn't say that either. The classic being a poor way of educating people turns the classic into a bad thing. The existence of one or more people that like it doesn't make it good either, it's about whether it's the most effective way to impart the information to a large population of people given that there's a limited ability to be able to individually tailor the experience.

If you want to make the argument that the historical style of licence tests are the most optimal way to deliver the information required then I'm all ears. Maybe I'm wrong and they're actually excellent, but you'll have to show me why.

I asked a legitimate question, and I don’t know why this had to inspire a rhetorical question in return, pointing out the flaw in my thinking. Flawed thinking would suggest I knew better than you, but I presented no counterargument to your viewpoint. I raised a question because I couldn’t think of anything myself in terms of making the license tests better. Also no idea how the latter justifies the tone you then opted for afterwards.

I think it's perfectly justified. We're on the internet, and "I literally cannot think of any other way to do it" is a standard troll response. Particularly in a case like this, in this very thread alone there have been numerous other ways discussed. Let alone the fact that I find it completely unbelieveable that anyone over the age of 11 cannot think of at least two different ways to teach someone to drive a car.

If you defence is "I really can't think of another way to do it", my response is "I don't believe you". You cannot possibly be that stupid. You managed to turn your computer on and apparently feed yourself at least most days. There is no way you're so dumb that you can't think up at least one other way to learn to drive. What you asked was absolutely not a legitimate question. Best case scenario was that you weren't intending to troll, but you failed to even attempt to engage your brain for a minimum amount of time before posting. That seems worthy of mockery to me.

I was hoping we could have had a more civilized conversation. No reason to get so involved in a topic if your default response to discussion boils down to rhetorics and insults. It only leaves the impression that you don’t have a better solution for the design choice you blame PD for taking.

Yeah, no. You've been reading and posting in this thread since I posted this on Sep 10 and page 181. You posted on the same page just a few below that, and then continued to post over the following days as the discussion around licences continued over the last couple of weeks. You know full well that I have put out better solutions and you're more than welcome to read and engage with them if you want.

But I'm sure you didn't see any of that either, or any of the posts from other people replying to me, or the posts from other users discussing the same topics. Mate, you may not be trolling but you're doing such a fine impression of one that I have no choice but to treat you as such. If you want to have a civilised conversation then I'm more than happy to as I have done with other users, but put at least the bare minimum of effort into your post.

As far as "blaming" Polyphony for their design choices, who else should it be? It's their game. Let me know if there's someone else that's responsible for how Polyphony designs their licences and other tutorialisation and I'll make sure that they get an appropriate portion of any credit or blame for how I think they're doing.

 

[ScottPuss20]

I'm sorry, but suggesting that today's kids can't learn how to drive through "old" methods is pathetic. Why deny them the chance to improve their skills in the same way that I did 14 years ago? Call the licences tedious but my god were they instrumental in my development as a racer and a driver. GT4 taught me about the fundamentals of driving, giving me a foundation to build on for the rest of my life. I have learnt things from other games but nothing has helped me more than the licence tests in GT4. Today's kids shouldn't be denied this opportunity.

 

[JD_18]

So what exactly was your issue in the first place? We were always talking about improving them. You're the one who just steamed in and told us that they work and we were egotistical for suggesting ideas to better them.

Of course it is selfish, just to give an example: earlier in the thread you said that people already have experience with other games or racing concepts.

Guess what? My cousin is from Sonora (México) and hes family dont have money to buy a console (is expensive for my country), he doesnt have any experience whit GTA or another racing game. He has also learning problems.

He had the same right to you and me to learn from the begining. Even if you thinks its dumb (obviously from you privileged perspective).

UK and United States are not the world. Is hard to talk with european or americans becouse you think all is about you.

I am glad that you have access to do what you want, but it is not the reality of all.

Good thing no one said that then.


Good thing I didn't say that either. The classic being a poor way of educating people turns the classic into a bad thing. The existence of one or more people that like it doesn't make it good either, it's about whether it's the most effective way to impart the information to a large population of people given that there's a limited ability to be able to individually tailor the experience.

If you want to make the argument that the historical style of licence tests are the most optimal way to deliver the information required then I'm all ears. Maybe I'm wrong and they're actually excellent, but you'll have to show me why.

"it's the most effective way to impart the information to a large population of people given that there's a limited ability to be able to individually tailor the experience."

The most effective way to impart information is not to asuming all people learn in the same way or at same time.
Things like brake or whatever are bassics concepts for kids, old people, people who not know anything about cars, In addition, the licenses serve for people with motor disabilities, intellectual etc....

Someone in the thread already said "when something is done to teach, even the most appallingly 'silly' things can serve someone".

****, the shampoo has instructions. Maybe you should be more empathetic and understand that some people need extra help.

GT allways had that car/motorsport world entry vibes and its ok. 1997 or 2021, the year is not the important

We can agree they must put an options to skip this bassics for veterans or experts but the concept about licenses are fine and is the ADN of GT.

 

[05XR8]

Have to ask the kids of today then. I just watched the intro to FH5. Players jump straight in and the controls are displayed in brief pauses. That's a good option as the player gets used to the overall physics.

 

[Nielsen]

I think it's perfectly justified. We're on the internet, and "I literally cannot think of any other way to do it" is a standard troll response.

You confirmed I’ve been around for a decade or so, and yet you decide to write me off as a habitual troll. Illogical.

Particularly in a case like this, in this very thread alone there have been numerous other ways discussed. Let alone the fact that I find it completely unbelieveable that anyone over the age of 11 cannot think of at least two different ways to teach someone to drive a car.

Why is that so difficult to comprehend? Learning by doing is one of the most effective educational tools, and how to cut an apex in 2022 will be the same as doing it in 1998, not to mention just as relevant. That’s what I keep thinking, and not because I’m blinded by nostalgia or disregard other ideas by default, granted they seem applicable.

If you defence is "I really can't think of another way to do it", my response is "I don't believe you". You cannot possibly be that stupid.

It seemingly didn’t occur to you that lack of imagination might be the real culprit (and possibly for PD as well). Reason being we already have a formula that works, unlike some other flawed game modes in the game.

You managed to turn your computer on and apparently feed yourself at least most days. There is no way you're so dumb that you can't think up at least one other way to learn to drive. What you asked was absolutely not a legitimate question. Best case scenario was that you weren't intending to troll, but you failed to even attempt to engage your brain for a minimum amount of time before posting. That seems worthy of mockery to me.

Your lecture on stupidity falls flat considering the way you chose to escalate over a question.

Yeah, no. You've been reading and posting in this thread since I posted this on Sep 10 and page 181. You posted on the same page just a few below that, and then continued to post over the following days as the discussion around licences continued over the last couple of weeks. You know full well that I have put out better solutions and you're more than welcome to read and engage with them if you want

But I'm sure you didn't see any of that either, or any of the posts from other people replying to me, or the posts from other users discussing the same topics. Mate, you may not be trolling but you're doing such a fine impression of one that I have no choice but to treat you as such. If you want to have a civilised conversation then I'm more than happy to as I have done with other users, but put at least the bare minimum of effort into your post.

So you’re blaming me for not remembering every piece of a fragmented debate that started more than two weeks ago…

How about you got off the high horse and just answered the friggin’ question? It surely would have been easier than this tirade you went for instead, and why I couldn’t care less by now.

As far as "blaming" Polyphony for their design choices, who else should it be? It's their game. Let me know if there's someone else that's responsible for how Polyphony designs their licences and other tutorialisation and I'll make sure that they get an appropriate portion of any credit or blame for how I think they're doing.

I didn’t say you shouldn’t blame PD for your GT-related annoyances.

 

[DefNotJake]

I think there will be an option to not download dlc with cars and credits for the preorder version

If it helps anyone: I pre-ordered the digital 25th anniversary edition on PS5, and it still says 'Standard Edition' right above the countdown. One would assume that means there is separate DLC that will unlock on release day, which will add all the 25th anniversary goodies to your save when you make the choice to download it. (For me, this would be after I complete most of the singleplayer)

 

[FPV MIC]

If it helps anyone: I pre-ordered the digital 25th anniversary edition on PS5, and it still says 'Standard Edition' right above the countdown. One would assume that means there is separate DLC that will unlock on release day, which will add all the 25th anniversary goodies to your save when you make the choice to download it. (For me, this would be after I complete most of the singleplayer)

View attachment 1082487

Mine doesn't . It may be different in my region.

 

[zzz_pt]

You've been on the forums since 2010, so presumably you're at least 11 years old. If you literally cannot think of any other possible ways to teach driving techniques other than what is available in Gran Turismo, then me telling you some isn't going to help. If you're actually so closed-minded that you believe that there is only one way to teach driving and that Polyphony found it in 1997, then anything I say as a response is just going to be something that you can dismiss out of hand.

So I skipped to the interesting part and pointed out the flaw in your thinking. That took the form of a rhetorical question, to better frame how nonsensical the idea that anything would have only one way of teaching it was.

Exactly. It doesn't work for math, and actually it doesn't work for anything. There are many ways to teach any subject, and even among those many ways different people will have personal preferences for what they find works best. It's beyond belief that any one method for teaching a subject is absolutely optimal and beyond improvement, let alone that it was created for driving in a 1997 video game.

Nostalgia is one thing, but people using nostalgia as a weapon against any improvement is bonkers. Wanting to keep licence tests in some form is understandable. Wanting licence tests exactly as they existed in 1997 because that's somehow the best and only way to teach driving is demonstrably sill.

One only needs to look at GranTurismo's competition to see the obvious fact that license tests, especially the first boring ones, are absolutely useless to teach anyone how to control a virtual car.

Forza, Forza Horizon, Project Cars (1,2,3), Need For Speeds, etc. None of wich has those licenses and all of which can "teach" players what's supposed to happen on a racing track/road, how to steer, brake and accelerate.

Even sims like iRacing, rFactor and Assetto Corsa don't do it. Sure, most people on there are adults who know how to drive their dailies but 99,9% never drove an F1 or a Nascar and they don't need any license tests to figure it out.

 

[DefNotJake]

Mine doesn't . It may be different in my region.

View attachment 1082488

Did you check in 'Collection' in the far right side of the dashboard menu?

 

[FPV MIC]

Did you check in 'Collection' in the far right side of the dashboard menu?

I just had a look then and it's the same as my previous graphic with no mention of standard edition.

 

[HarVee]

What exactly is the difference between the pre order editions?

 

[rex1825]

What exactly is the difference between the pre order editions?

Paying more for same thing... Man, check official GT7 site, is it so hard, also here on GTPlanet there was a thread when all was released...

 

[Daniel55]

Have to ask the kids of today then. I just watched the intro to FH5. Players jump straight in and the controls are displayed in brief pauses. That's a good option as the player gets used to the overall physics.

Totally different games. One is an open world arcade racer while the other is a track based simulator. It wouldn't even make sense for FH5 to have license tests because the cars don't behave like in reality.
Also, the license tests are part of GT's DNA, personally i don't want them removed. An option to skip them for veterans would be nice, but it also shouldn't be a problem for them to pass the tests quickly if the option is not there.

 

[05XR8]

Totally different games. One is an open world arcade racer while the other is a track based simulator. It wouldn't even make sense for FH5 to have license tests because the cars don't behave like in reality.
Also, the license tests are part of GT's DNA, personally i don't want them removed. An option to skip them for veterans would be nice, but it also shouldn't be a problem for them to pass the tests quickly if the option is not there.

It’s not so much about passing them quickly Without an option and it’s fine the licence tests are there. The variation in how the tests teach the basics, is the question. Here’s what PD did for GT6.



Are the licence tests necessary? Should this be an option from now on?

 

[snc]

Totally different games. One is an open world arcade racer while the other is a track based simulator. It wouldn't even make sense for FH5 to have license tests because the cars don't behave like in reality.
Also, the license tests are part of GT's DNA, personally i don't want them removed. An option to skip them for veterans would be nice, but it also shouldn't be a problem for them to pass the tests quickly if the option is not there.

yeah sometimes I think its good polyphony is kinda stubborn and not listening to everything fans writing on forums