Gran Turismo 7: Latest news and discussion thread

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The first part of your sentence feels realistic, the second part though...
Kaz when the words “Q&A” and “community” are in the same sentence:

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But is anyone here going to boycott the game, or do anything of actual significance to try and change things? Likely not, even if we should.
Bleak I know, but that's just the reality of the situation. It happened once near the start of GT7's lifecycle, but it's unlikely to happen again unless it's something along the lines of scamming customers.
It’s a bit difficult to boycott both GT and a specific aspect within the game (like AI), separately.

It’s hard in general to boycott GT as a franchise because it doesn’t have active continuous monetization - no season/battle passes or major paid DLC expansions - if we bought the game PD already has our money, they don’t have an obligation to change anything, no proverbial “financial foot on the neck”. The most power the community has over the developers would maybe be boycotting Sport mode, as the esports players are in some ways an intermediary for feedback. However, that doesn’t necessarily promote a “focus” on the problematic area with a community of GT’s size, if anything it might just make them scramble to make Sport better (like penalties and daily race selections) and that’s it.

There’s little to no way to get PD to focus on community gripes (like AI) with how little community spaces there are to interact or at least see feedback. Plus, with AI as an example, I don’t recall that ever being a specific marketing point or feature in any trailer of the past four games - so it’s not like there’s a good fulcrum or argument point to boycott on even if you wanted to boycott by just not purchasing the next game (and even then, releases are looking to average around 4-5 years… so this process just gets slower and slower). The closest it came was Sophy, and even Sophy AI came later and was always marketed as a non-expansive functionality for the time being with no set timeframe or map of when or what it could fully be. If you wanted to quit GT over AI nonsense to stick it to PD they have no incentive to care, as there’s no change in their revenue from it until the next product goes on sale years down the line, which will still probably sell very well to the rabid fans and casual market. As well, there’s unlikely to be a Venn diagram that has a cross section of players that would be willing to stop playing GT7 as some sort of “boycott” that also purchased microtransaction credit packs - seemingly those too also only sell to diehard (perhaps delusional) fans, casual market, or folks with a lot of disposable income and not as much time to play games, none of which are likely to know, or more importantly, care about the depths of the AI problems.

It’s a baffling problem to try to solve as a fan, but even more baffling that the problem exists in the first place - there isn’t a financial incentive to keep the AI and/or sub-100 throttle usage neutered, and they already have some difficulty settings in the game, so there is accessible programming behind it. There isn’t some guy in an office in Japan twiddling an evil little mustache just to see how far he can push things - that’s absurd. But I don’t know why there’s so many design choices like this going on throughout so many aspects of modern GT games - many were also in in Sport, but I’d argue you could trace some as far back as GT6, AI especially.

Literally just having an option to strip the rubber bands and algorithms and letting the AI vehicles drive as they would naturally in the game would be an improvement to what we have now.
 
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I, as most others I would have thought, would still like to see more high paying races, remember Kaz`letter to the community especially the line;
I would like to try to avoid a situation where a player must mechanically keep replaying certain events over and over again
We can still hope. :lol:
 
I would like to try to avoid a situation where a player must mechanically keep replaying certain events over and over again


And yet it still happens. Despite the new special events, they are nowhere near as appealing as the Big 4 of cash cows.


The Custom Race payouts still need improvement, if Kaz wants to avoid the grinding situation.
 
It’s a bit difficult to boycott both GT and a specific aspect within the game (like AI), separately.

It’s hard in general to boycott GT as a franchise because it doesn’t have active continuous monetization - no season/battle passes or major paid DLC expansions - if we bought the game PD already has our money, they don’t have an obligation to change anything, no proverbial “financial foot on the neck”. The most power the community has over the developers would maybe be boycotting Sport mode, as the esports players are in some ways an intermediary for feedback. However, that doesn’t necessarily promote a “focus” on the problematic area with a community of GT’s size, if anything it might just make them scramble to make Sport better (like penalties and daily race selections) and that’s it.

There’s little to no way to get PD to focus on community gripes (like AI) with how little community spaces there are to interact or at least see feedback. Plus, with AI as an example, I don’t recall that ever being a specific marketing point or feature in any trailer of the past four games - so it’s not like there’s a good fulcrum or argument point to boycott on even if you wanted to boycott by just not purchasing the next game (and even then, releases are looking to average around 4-5 years… so this process just gets slower and slower). The closest it came was Sophy, and even Sophy AI came later and was always marketed as a non-expansive functionality for the time being with no set timeframe or map of when or what it could fully be. If you wanted to quit GT over AI nonsense to stick it to PD they have no incentive to care, as there’s no change in their revenue from it until the next product goes on sale years down the line, which will still probably sell very well to the rabid fans and casual market. There’s unlikely to be a Venn diagram that has a cross section of players that would be willing to stop playing GT7 as some sort of “boycott” that also purchased microtransaction credit packs - seemingly those too also only sell to diehard (perhaps delusional) fans, casual market, or folks with a lot of disposable income and not as much time to play games, none of which are likely to know, or more importantly, care about the depths of the AI problems.

It’s a baffling problem to try to solve as a fan, but even more baffling that the problem exists in the first place - there isn’t a financial incentive to keep the AI and/or sub-100 throttle usage neutered, and they already have some difficulty settings in the game, so there is accessible programming behind it. There isn’t some guy in an office in Japan twiddling an evil little mustache just to see how far he can push things - that’s absurd. But I don’t know why there’s so many design choices like this going on throughout so many aspects of modern GT games - many were also in in Sport, but I’d argue you could trace some as far back as GT6, AI especially.

Literally just having an option to strip the rubber bands and algorithms and letting the AI vehicles drive as they would naturally in the game would be an improvement to what we have now.
I think even the first Gran Turismo had rubber banding.
Our best bet is that development for Sophy A.I. progresses at a rate to where it replaces the normal A.I. entirely for GT8 (Whenever that becomes a thing. 2029? Who knows).
Maybe then the rubber banding will be gone. Then again, maybe they use that as the way to "balance" Sophy A.I. to the player still. Hopefully not though.
 
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I think even the first Gran Turismo had rubber banding.
Our best bet is that development for Sophy A.I. progresses at a rate to where it replaces the normal A.I. entirely for GT8 (Whenever that becomes a thing. 2029? Who knows).
Maybe then the rubber banding will be gone. Then again, maybe they use that as the way to "balance" Sophy A.I. to the player still. Hopefully not though.


Why not GT7?

I think there is high possibility that Sophy will be out for GT7 as an update.
 
I, as most others I would have thought, would still like to see more high paying races, remember Kaz`letter to the community especially the line;
I would like to try to avoid a situation where a player must mechanically keep replaying certain events over and over again
We can still hope. :lol:
This quote from Kaz illustrates brillantly the failures of PD : even when they have good intentions, they are unable to enact them.

So you can imagine the probability of them enacting things that players want but they don't 🤣
 
Why not GT7?

I think there is high possibility that Sophy will be out for GT7 as an update.
Maybe, but most players by now will have got through the majority of the career mode, so adding Sophy A.I. to already completed content might be seen as redundant. Especially if it means Polyphony has to rebalance every event again.

There may be some more Sophy A.I. implementation coming to GT7. I just don't think the career mode will be part of it until the next game, where Polyphony can design events from scratch.
Having Sophy A.I. added to Custom Race mode I think is a more likely thing for GT7 than career implementation at this stage.

Not that I know for certain of course. Anything is technically possible.
 
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This quote from Kaz illustrates brillantly the failures of PD : even when they have good intentions, they are unable to enact them.

So you can imagine the probability of them enacting things that players want but they don't 🤣

Weekly Challenges actually do the job Kaz was talking about. People are trying at least once a week different races. Then there are weekly timetrials you can earn decent cash by doing them. To be honest since Spec 3 i didn’t done any grinding. Some players will always went for grinding races since those are the easiest way of earning money, but it is no longer crucial to enjoy the game like it used to be.

Speaking about this „apology” post by Kaz. Judgin by all previous updates I believe all of that stuff Kaz was talking about is coming eventually but it takes them absurd amount of time. He promised car selling, it was released (a nearly year after but it was), Weekly challenges and new way of earning money? (check). Endurance races I think will be out sometime in the future, maybe those are waiting for needed features to run them? I think we just need to wait and see.
 
Weekly Challenges actually do the job Kaz was talking about. People are trying at least once a week different races. Then there are weekly timetrials you can earn decent cash by doing them. To be honest since Spec 3 i didn’t done any grinding. Some players will always went for grinding races since those are the easiest way of earning money, but it is no longer crucial to enjoy the game like it used to be.

This.

There are ways to credits people are not taking advantage of I think.

Circuit experiences being another one.
 
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Maybe, but most players by now will have got through the majority of the career mode, so adding Sophy A.I. to already completed content might be seen as redundant. Especially if it means Polyphony has to rebalance every event again.

There may be some more Sophy A.I. implementation coming to GT7. I just don't think the career mode will be part of it until the next game, where Polyphony can design events from scratch.
Having Sophy A.I. added to Custom Race mode I think is a more likely thing for GT7 than career implementation at this stage.

Not that I know for certain of course. Anything is technically possible.
There is that article that says that they continue working on AI and doing endurance races with difficulty settings

that says to me that they plan to test these things in GT7
 
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There is that article that says that they continue working on AI and plan doing endurance races with difficulty settings

that says to me that they plan to test these things in GT7
Oh that's interesting if the two are linked. That could explain why the longer endurance races (outside of "The Human Comedy" missions & the Spa 1 Hour) haven't arrived yet. Polyphony could be waiting until Sophy A.I. is in a good enough state before adding them. And especially if said endurance events plan to include B-Spec stints, which I recall was mentioned before in a Kaz interview about the possibilities for Sophy A.I.

Completely new events make more sense for Sophy A.I. implementation in GT7 than the older career mode events.
 
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With this, come on. Play your own game and see how it is has zero benefit in intention or in reality. There are other balancing methods already in the game - don’t meddle with AI on an un-adjustable level when it simply makes them worse. Competitiveness can be dialled back with difficulty options.

To have overlooked every other measure in the game to increase competitiveness, is a massive failure. And quite frankly, whoever was responsible should be subject to an internal review to explain their decision.

I’m not saying they should be fired, but just explain your reasoning and why you thought it was beneficial.

Then, bring up counterpoints as to why it’s a bad idea and either the person continues to learn (or maybe this is one error of design and they are otherwise good designers) or they realise the mistake and avoid it in future, considering all other in-game measures towards a specific goal, before adjusting something on a level that the player has no control over.
Four options :

1/ They never actually tested it beyond to see if the custom race mode did crash the game.

2/ They never thought players would try more than 3 lap races and realize what's going on, or set multi-class races. IDK, they prefer you to think you had a great competitive race rather than give the player a competitive experience..

3/ They didn't want you to be able to access the "ultimate GT experience" so you buy the next game ASAP hoping for something better. Or they can't admit that could allow you to do better than them.

4/ The QA team may be paralyzed by the idea of telling its employers that they have done poorly. We are in Japan, that's a totally different world when it comes to relationship between individuals and respect for authority. Kobayashi as an official test driver for GT probably tested the TS050 without saying that something was seriously wrong with a car he knows well.
 
There is that article that says that they continue working on AI and doing endurance races with difficulty settings

that says to me that they plan to test these things in GT7

Exactly.
Some people believe GT8 is close and will feature all newest features etc. What I think is we did get answer with first Kaz apology post. He stated there that GT7 is more „long term vision” and by watching other sim racing titles Kaz could get inspiration from those.

iRacing was released in 2008, and it is still being updated. There is no sign of iRacing2

Raceroom was released in 2013… still being updated

Automobilista 2 is a newer title but it is clearly stated it will be supported for a long long time

And then we have Forza Motorsport, we still don’t know how this will end up, but ditching a number „8” from the title should ring the bell that this could be the only Forza Motorsport we get in this generation.

As you can see the trend is clear, sim racing titles are now more focused on long term updates and perfecting formula. I believe the same is for GT7 and we have a lot of years for this title.
 
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I think even the first Gran Turismo had rubber banding.
Our best bet is that development for Sophy A.I. progresses at a rate to where it replaces the normal A.I. entirely for GT8 (Whenever that becomes a thing. 2029? Who knows).
Maybe then the rubber banding will be gone. Then again, maybe they use that as the way to "balance" Sophy A.I. to the player still. Hopefully not though.
Sorry to say, but the truth is: there will always be rubber bands races even with full Sophy Ai implementation....

Remember that this game is aimed for 7 to 77 years old gamers....
If they crash, it's pretty much game over, if there was no rubber band, your chances of winning the race would null.. you would have to restart.... Rubber band allows for some "fighting chance".

And this is regardless of the game overall difficulty level selected, the rubber band is looser for difficult level selected or tighter for easier level selected.

What we "pro" would like is an Expert Pro difficult level where absolutely no rubber band exist, and where all races with the computer would feature full Sophy Ai, and of course the payout should be adjusted accordingly to make the race more worthwhile.

The game should also encourage the players to race against Sophy the Ai, by giving an option to turn on Full Ai mode for each race (with the cash payout adjusted to show the incentives), for those who have selected any GT any game difficulty that is not "expert pro", similar to how we currently have certain races with Sophy Ai only .

I think this could be a viable next Spec upgrade.
 
Exactly.
Some people believe GT8 is close and will feature all newest features etc. What I think is we did get answer with first Kaz apology post. He stated there that GT7 is more „long term vision” and by watching other sim racing titles Kaz could get inspiration from those.

iRacing was released in 2008, and it is still being updated. There is no sign of iRacing2

Raceroom was released in 2013… still being updated

Automobilista 2 is a newer title but it is clearly stated it will be supported for a long long time

And then we have Forza Motorsport, we still don’t know how this will end up, but ditching a number „8” from the title should ring the bell that this could be the only Forza Motorsport we get in this generation.

As you can see the trend is clear, sim racing titles are now more focused on long term updates and perfecting formula. I believe the same is for GT7 and we have a lot of years for this title.
There's two differences that mean GT is less likely to follow this path, at least with GT7:
  1. Ongoing monetisation strategy. All of those games you mention charge for basically every piece of new content they add. This means that there's constant revenue flow from existing players. GT doesn't do that, all the content is free, and while there are microtransactions I imagine most of the people who would buy those have done so by now - there's no reason for people to keep buying MTX over and over. So there's more incentive for a new game to get more revenue from existing players.
  2. Sales numbers. GT can reliably be expected to sell 10 million copies when not released exclusively onto a dead console (GT6), plus whatever comes from a potential future PC port. The sims you mention, with all respect to them, can't get near that kind of number. If you're Sony, and you've outright stated you need better margins on your software output, a new Gran Turismo is pretty much the safest thing in your lineup you can release to guarantee profit.
 
There's two differences that mean GT is less likely to follow this path, at least with GT7:
  1. Ongoing monetisation strategy. All of those games you mention charge for basically every piece of new content they add. This means that there's constant revenue flow from existing players. GT doesn't do that, all the content is free, and while there are microtransactions I imagine most of the people who would buy those have done so by now - there's no reason for people to keep buying MTX over and over. So there's more incentive for a new game to get more revenue from existing players.
  2. Sales numbers. GT can reliably be expected to sell 10 million copies when not released exclusively onto a dead console (GT6), plus whatever comes from a potential future PC port. The sims you mention, with all respect to them, can't get near that kind of number. If you're Sony, and you've outright stated you need better margins on your software output, a new Gran Turismo is pretty much the safest thing in your lineup you can release to guarantee profit.
There is different way PD makes money. See how montreal GTWS events tickets are sold out? Whole event organization and money they are making from it could be enough + GT7 is still somewhere on top sales every month + microtransactions + collaboration deals like Bulgari etc. GT is the biggest racing game IP and it can make money in less obvious way.
 
Don't forget that pd has to spend money (booking the location, staff, screens & simulators etc.) and invest in marketing (advertising & cooperations with other companies)
 
Don't forget that pd has to spend money (booking the location, staff, screens & simulators etc.) and invest in marketing (advertising & cooperations with other companies)
Every company has costs. You think those paid dlc for other games are made for free?
 
Weekly Challenges actually do the job Kaz was talking about. People are trying at least once a week different races. Then there are weekly timetrials you can earn decent cash by doing them. To be honest since Spec 3 i didn’t done any grinding. Some players will always went for grinding races since those are the easiest way of earning money, but it is no longer crucial to enjoy the game like it used to be.

Speaking about this „apology” post by Kaz. Judgin by all previous updates I believe all of that stuff Kaz was talking about is coming eventually but it takes them absurd amount of time. He promised car selling, it was released (a nearly year after but it was), Weekly challenges and new way of earning money? (check). Endurance races I think will be out sometime in the future, maybe those are waiting for needed features to run them? I think we just need to wait and see.
I get where your coming from but the weekly challenges are a one time only payout, they are also time gated so you cant`grind`them.Apart from adding Spa there are still only three high paying events in the game that you can repeat.
 
I get where your coming from but the weekly challenges are a one time only payout, they are also time gated so you cant`grind`them.Apart from adding Spa there are still only three high paying events in the game that you can repeat.
The thing is. You really don’t need to grind. Even if all events give you the same money/time people would grind the easiest one or something. I think right now after Spec 2 there is a plenty of opportunities to make your time spent on GT7 more interesting than just beating same old events.
 
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