Gran Turismo series > Forza Motorsports

Discussion in 'Forza Motorsport 1' started by sportcarm3, Jun 5, 2005.

  1. sportcarm3

    sportcarm3

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    I just bought teh xbox and forza motorsports when it came out about a month ago and have been playing it everyday in love with the online play, but had to sell it because of a speeding ticket I got. Now, I went back and played gran turismo, and gran turismo is a way better simulator then Forza. The only things forza had better then gt4 would have to be the way the scenery was 3d, and tires marks as well as body kits exhaust and damage, and of course online play. But gran turismo 4's Frames per second is so much better, everything is so much smoother. I mean, after not playing ps2 for a whole month and playing only forza and jumping back into gt4 I think gt4 is the greater of the two games. Forza has a way better layout, because of how it classes the cars, but it gets really arcade like in the fact that only certain cars are the best in certain classes, and noone can keep up with those cars regardless of the driving. Also turbo Enzo's get on my nerves, these are a few of the things that ruin the real factor for me. Also the gripping physic's in gran turismo 4 feel better, it feels alot more realistic when you are driving courses such as nurburgring in gt4. I don't feel that Forza is as much of a simulator as gt4 is, gt4 feels alot more realistic in grip driving, the only sucky part of gt4 is the drifting, it feels very unrealistic.

    Overall, I just feel that the only thing's gt4 is lacking is tire marks, damage, mountain courses, visible mod's, realistic AI, online play, better car classes, and to go back to gt3 physic's as far as drifting is concerned. But if we are comparing pure motorsports feel of the cars and tracks, gt4 wins over forza, forza is to much of an arcade racer, thats why its so much fun, gt4 is more of a raw simulator of real life driving.
     
  2. JohnBM01

    JohnBM01 Premium

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    Hi, Sportcarm3.

    You know, I've stated a whole bunch of stuff in the GT4 vs. Forza deal. Maybe not in the 5,000+ posts of "GT4 vs. Forza [Let the Battle Begin]," but I've mentioned it a lot. Personally, I've said that GT4 was much better from a GT fan's perspective. I've said that Forza's graphics aren't as satisfying as GT4. I've said that Forza has a few things going for it- Ferrari, Porsche, damage, excessive tuning, and XBOX Live online gaming.

    But you know one thing I realized about Forza Motorsport? To me, I think Forza Motorsport is basically a Gran Turismo that XBOX fans can be proud of. Say what you want, but when you think about it, the XBOX doesn't have a real standout sim racing title in the mold of Gran Turismo. Don't say Project Gotham because the PGR series is NOT a sim game. Between GT4 and Forza, GT4 is more experienced while Forza is the newcomer. I used to be one-sided on this issue. I'll still prefer Gran Turismo 4 over Forza, but Forza Motorsport isn't a disappointment. All the complaining and b*tching I seen about GT4, I still consider it my winner because I think the game couldn't have been made any better. I'm an old school, old-fashioned guy. I don't ask for much out of games except for being good and enjoyable. But Forza does have a very nice package that even Gran Turismo fans have to appreciate. Forza is about as close to Gran Turismo as possible. It isn't a GT bootleg, it isn't a legal pirating of GT, it isn't a GT wannabe, it's perhaps the best sim racing game in the mold of Gran Turismo. All I'm saying is that you can love GT4 and hate Forza. You can hate GT4 and love Forza. Regardless, these are two of the best racing games in the 21st Century. If you have a PS2 and love racing- **** Burnout 3, get Gran Turismo 4. If you have an XBOX and love racing, Forza's your meal ticket.

    So, go easy on Forza. This coming from a GT fan, but also a racing game veteran. How much more credibilty do you need from me?
     
  3. WeAreN1nja

    WeAreN1nja

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    Very well put, but IMO they're two very different games. Gran Turismo has always been about the cars. Collecting, tuning, driving, and enjoying various automobiles. Sure you could race, but the AI has always been lacking. Racing was never the games focus, enjoyable, sim-like driving was. The cars were always the stars of the game; hence B-Spec and the photo modes in GT4.

    Forza, on the other hand, focuses on EVERYTHING else. MS didn't just aim it's guns at the GT series with Forza, they took on just about every formidable racing franchise out there... A diverse selection of cars and real world tracks like Gran Turismo, Sim-esque handling like GT/TOCA, A realistic damage engine like TOCA, Customization and body kits like NFS:U, and online happy fun time like Project Gotham.

    Forza is a big game, with huge aspirations. Whether or not it bested the competition depends solely on the player. I, myself, am only concerned with the driving experience; and GT4 pwnz Forza in that aspect IMO. It just "feels" better to me.
     
  4. Joey D

    Joey D Contributing Writer

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    You had to make a new thread about this? You could have easily put it in the Forza vs GT4 thread.

    They are both great games, people don't understand that for some reason. You should own both if you are a racing game fan. One really isn't better then the other. I prefew Forza more but that mainly due to the fact its got some cars I really enjoy and customizing. But GT4 has other stuff I like to. Like I said neither one is better then the other.
     
  5. BlackZ28

    BlackZ28

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    Forza is far from an arcade racer, you need to step up and race without the aids on.
    On a side note, no one wants to see a thread about your opinion, try sticking it in an existing thread(many of them) next time pal. :)
     
  6. Devedander

    Devedander

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    4,323
    I said it before and I still think it holds true, people confuse bad with different. Forza does things differently and everytime I hear someone say how Forza is not good at something it's because it's not that way in GT4... I half think some people would have only been happy with a port of GT4 for Xbox.

    The way I look at it, the only people who can really comment on how realistic or good it is at being a simulator are those who actually race these types of cars in real life.

    I also think people sometimes overlook the concessions made by games to overcome the fact they are on a console. Sometimes things like how a car feels when steering may be techinically more accurate but feel more wrong. For instance people always say steering feels better in GT4... I find the steerig in GT4 to be responsive and predictable which are good things, but not necesssarily realistic. But considering I don't have the benefit of actual momentum and physical feedback that read drivers have (I am not talking about just a wheel either) it may be good to give a litte on the realistic side to gain a little on the "feels right" side.

    If it comes right down to it, how realistic can any of these games be if people like you and me are out there matching record lap times on tracks? I sure as hell couldn't do it in real life, could you? If you coudln't either, then you really have to ask yourself "how realistic is it"?
     
  7. code_kev

    code_kev

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    3,802
    I thought both games are good, but I don't really play either atm. Hmm all this talk on em makes me want to play GT4 abit more...I think I may.
     
  8. MaxxTraxx

    MaxxTraxx (Banned)

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    You know this is why I don't come to this site any more. Poeple like you.

    You post in OUR section about Forza . Come on dude, we don't care what you think! If you want to post something about this game, don't do it about GT4 vs Forza!


    TWO DIFFERENT PLATFORMS!
    Biased.
    Biased.


    I kind of think this site is sinking lower and lower. I havn't been here in decades. Just because I founded a better site - www.ForzaCentral.com



    Better Sim? Ha, it's took GT4 4 versions to get as good as FORZA!
    Hell, how many Forzas has it been? May I refresh your memory? 1





    GT4 is a good game, but Forza just has the better things.

    4 versions of GT4 - Engine sounds suck
    1 version of Forza - Better than GT4 :sly:


    And who cares about FPM? 30 ,60 ,80, 90! WHO CARES!
    I think both games are great in this !




    BOTH GAMES ARE GREAT. GET OVER IT

    One day, we won't have these kinds of threads /scarcism
     
  9. 213101

    213101

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    true they both is good i just got bored of gt as soon as i played forza though and never went back.
     
  10. LaBounti

    LaBounti

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    I never got bored of GT2 and I did not stop playing until GT4 came out and tossed GT3 away. I own both and I like the game with more content better. Going from DFP to game pad take some of the fun out racing.

    GT4>Enthusia>Forza my opinion so dont knock it.
     
  11. NSX-R

    NSX-R

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    Physics: Enthusia>GT4>Forza
    Graphics: GT4>Enthusia>Forza
    Car Selection: Forza>GT4>Enthusia
    Number of Cars: GT4>Forza=Enthusia
    Presentation: Forza>GT4>Enthusia

    Overall: GT4>Forza>Enthusia

    Physics is a HUGE part of my evaluation. To me, GT4>Enthusia>Forza.
     
  12. LaBounti

    LaBounti

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    I have to give the edge to GT4 simply because it has cars you'll never find in another game. Porsche and Ferarri doesnt make or break a game.
     
  13. NSX-R

    NSX-R

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    I've gotta disagree you on that one. True, they don't break a game, but they do make games.

    Think about NFS5: Porsche Unleashed, although it's exclusively for Porsche, it's still a great hit!
     
  14. LaBounti

    LaBounti

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    Thats why i used the word "I" as i had no intention of knocking your opinion.
     
  15. stumpydino

    stumpydino

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    iv got gt4, forza looks great, i think its a case of them being as good as each other just on different consoles
     
  16. Lamboracer

    Lamboracer

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    Hi guys. I must admit that iam a huge gt fan but am highly considering getting an xbox and forza. I was just wondering, after watching some vids i see the grren line on the road, i guess an accel/brake indicator. Is that able to be shut off. THtas my only question other than that its just a matter of getting money.
     
  17. NSX-R

    NSX-R

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    You say "Don't compare GT4 with Forza!!!", and after all, it's the only thing you did! :tdown:

    Not "comparing" anything, but time has passed since GT1, GT2 and GT3. Forza has been able to take advantage of the technology that wasn't availble in the stone age.
     
  18. Young_Warrior

    Young_Warrior (Banned)

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    I got a xbox just because of forza and I which I hadnt. Its quite frankly too arcadey. I mean whats up with the over existent drifting its annoying.
     
  19. Scaff

    Scaff Staff Emeritus

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    Yes you can turn the racing line indicator off if you wish to.

    Regards

    Scaff
     
  20. bleurabbit7

    bleurabbit7

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    I know that everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But what bothers me is the fact people just sit there and bash on GT4 and bash on FORZA. I wish you people would look at the whole picture and not just one little corner.

    First off, both games come on 2 different systems. Not everybody has both systems. If they have XBOX, they're getting FORZA. If they have PS2, they're getting GT4. These games are the best racing games for each system. Don't compare them to each other. If they were on the same system, then I could see that they would be comparable.

    I own both games and I will keep my opinion to myself because I don't want to add fuel to the fire. I like both of them. Sure I'd like to change things on both. Hell, if I could put them together I would. But all and all, they are JUST GAMES. If you have a problem, shut the power off, put it in a bag and toss it in the closet.

    My $.02
     
  21. MaxxTraxx

    MaxxTraxx (Banned)

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    Maybe if you learned how to really drive, you would like the game. Give it time. It takes time for you to change from GT4 to Forza.
     
  22. Deadpool

    Deadpool

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    If you think that absurd tail happy physics engine is realistic........then you are the one that needs to learn about driving.

    Im sorry, but sliding an Enzo around a banking at 170mph with ease.......get real. Every car slides like they are on a wet track, it's silly and arcadish. Take for instance the Mazda RX8, in Forza I can light the tires up around corners and slide it with ease........but the real life car is nothing like this, it just doesn't have the torque.

    I just wish GT4 had some of the features from Forza, oh well.....just gotta wait and see what happens with GT5.
     
  23. Layla's Keeper

    Layla's Keeper

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    Actually, many reviews of the RX8 in real life have commented on how easy it is to steer the car with the throttle, Deadpool.

    I have raced real cars, and I do find Forza's depiction of lateral grip much more realistic than Gran Turismo's. In Gran Turismo, the cars simply don't breakaway at the limit the way that cars in real life do. Polyphony seems, at times, to have no concept of a tire and its limits of adhesion. This has long been my biggest complaint about the Gran Turismo series.

    Honestly, Forza does go too far in the other direction. In particular, the way that front-wheel drive cars incessantly spin the inside front tire (regardless of the way you're balancing the car with brake and throttle) is woefully unrealistic. However, the distinctive adhesion limits of the different cars, determined by tire contact patches, suspension travel, and lateral forces are the hallmark of Forza Motorsport's physics engine, and are the reason I prefer Forza to Gran Turismo 4.
     
  24. Tenacious D

    Tenacious D Premium

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    7,424
    MustangSVT left us an interesting challenge in the Forza vs GT4 thread. Take a Mercedes-Benz SLR around Laguna Seca in Forza and Gran Turismo 4 and see what differences there are. I happen to have Forza and Gran Turismo 4. Well, today was sunday, so what the heck?

    I thought that it would be cool for those of us with different racing games that have the same cars and tracks to take the same car, the same track, and post our impressions vs Forza. I was rather surprised at my own experience.

    I set up both cars as similarly as possible, with no tuning and no assists other than ABS, with medium sports tires. Silver paint jobs. ;)

    Let me reiterate: I don't like supercars over 500hp, ESPECIALLY on medium quality sports tires, and I'm not a fan of Mercedes-Benz other than the 190, but I'm a trooper.

    Gran Turismo 4

    I fired GT4 up first because I was intending to spend the day with Forza, maybe even set up a Live account. And... heavenly angels sang. :D

    The more I play Forza, the more I appreciate Gran Turismo. Because of the unforgiving nature of Forza, it did force me to be an even more technical driver. Otherwise my victories would be far fewer. Because I was getting schooled on the finer points of Forza, GT4 felt weird. I tried it with the behind the car view, but it was not only too low, it felt completely wrong, so I went back to my beloved roof cam, and...

    I was in the car. It was slippery because a 600hp slab of heavy steel on sports tires would be and it took a few tries to get used to it. In fact I went off the track at the very start, so I let it go and squirreled around to watch the SLR's behavior on the grass in replay. But then I got serious.

    As I got used to it, the feel became natural. I could point the car where I wanted without fishing. I learned how hard I could push it, and I got braver around turns. When I lost it, I knew why. I could hit the bumper strips almost perfectly, and my racing line was clear to me. There was no draw in. The turn markers were there when that part of the track was visible and I could see them and every aspect of the track perfectly. I could approach turns without any indecision, and I didn't fish around them except at first as I adjusted to the car and tires. Breaking and tire grip felt natural. When the tires regained grip after a slippery turn it was smooth. Force feedback is God's gift to racing games, and it helped immensely, but when I unplugged it, I could still drive almost as precisely. Shifting was slow but not a problem. The SLR sounded like an old German machine but what the heck.

    On replay, when the car left the track, it looked... like a car leaving the track! The bounce and behavior was authentic. Even though there was a lot less detail on the race track, it looked... real. The angle of the sun matched the reflections and shadows perfectly. The SLR looked like it was on a live test drive on The Speed Channel, and the beavertail brake added to the effect. The multiple camera angles added a lot to the presentation. Smoke was good but you could tell it was CG. The heat distortion was kind of hokey, there in some shots but not others, but it did look good. The 60fps video was butter smooth. The replay music was great. I miss that on Forza because I can't stand music during a race, as it takes away my auditory sense of the car. Not seeing damage on the nose when I lost it in the first corkscrew attempt was rather disconcerting, after growing used to it in Forza. But I can still live without damage.

    Forza Motorsport

    First... it started off by crashing. :p

    It's even funnier when it crashes during a race. A definite AARGH moment. But okay, to the hotlap.

    Amazingly, the behind the car view wasn't bad, though it wasn't as good as my adopted roofcam view in GT4. It did give me a better view of the road, but I wasn't quite as involved in the driving experience. The car sounded like a supercar and not something from a machine shop.

    I dialled in faster with the Forza SLR, but not as much. I could sort of feel the car, but it was vague. I could point the car but not as precisely. I did learn how hard I could push it, and I got braver around turns. However when I lost it, sometimes I had no clue. Communication between me and the car was iffy. The track was a bit more uncertain, and keeping four wheels on the track was harder. Curves were fishier and tended to sneak up on me. I could hit the bumper strips sometimes and sometimes not. Because of the vague perspective and my judgement of approaching turns, braking was problematic, so I tended to brake earlier. My driving line was harder to stay on. My laps were less consistent. With the tire noise cranked, I liked it better than GT4's. The ABS acted more like it would trying to stop a slab of heavy steel, and the tire chirp and streaky tracks were satisfying.

    The turn markers drew in MUCH later than they should have, and watching them pop into view was almost alarming, plus they weren't as visible. The 30 second framerate definitely hurt there. Breaking and tire grip did feel natural. When the tires regained grip after a slippery turn, sometimes it was smooth, sometimes not. Applying power was a bit touchier, as in a tight turn if you floored it, tires tended to spin. The grip of the tires was a bit more sure footed than in GT4. Shifting was fairly quick. Force feedback would have helped a great deal, but I didn't miss it as much as I thought I would. I tended to drive very similarly, though around some turns it felt more comfortable to stay in the higher gear.

    The replays were gorgeous, and the trackside detail is wonderful. I much prefer Forza's lifelike color to Gran Turismo's video look, although somehow it seemed more "realistic" than real. Having one set of replay cameras and no replay music made it less entertaining (you get music in races and replays both, or neither, so I turn it off). Particle effects like smoke were excellent, but sparks and sand flying sand looked cartoony. The 30 second framerate was flickery, and the 6fps environment reflections are almost painful. At high RPMs the cars sound remarkably similar. When the Forza SLR left the track, sometimes it looked real, sometimes not. The cars followed similar racing lines, though with less precision in Forza. Watching the speedometer, the cars drove and took turns almost exactly the same, and the racing line for me was the same, though they felt differently.

    All in all, both drives were very satisfying, but just a bit more engaging in Gran Turismo 4. I quit after 16 laps in Forza because the game crashed again. :p

    And now for the fine print, the best laps.

    Gran Turismo 4: 1'33.577

    Forza Motorsport: 1'33.326

    Epilogue: After spending 11 months with Forza, I returned to GT4 and am loving every millisecond of it!
     
  25. 3-Wheel Drive

    3-Wheel Drive

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    While I have only played Forza briefly at another person's house, I can say that the first impression wasn't very good. I picked a quick race: TVR Tuscan Speed 6 at Tsukuba. I knew the car from GT3, and I knew the track from GT4, so I figured I could get by pretty easily. As I raced around, the natural difference in controllers aside, I noticed the car didn't behave as predictably as in GT. It was harder to tell the limits of the vehicle, and its reactions seemed to very when I breached those limits. Also, I noticed that every time I bumped into another car, my Speed 6 would spin out, sometimes a whole 360 degrees. And I'm not talking full on collisions. This was moderate, DTM-style rear ending and bumping. It just didn't seem very accurate, especially since at such low impacts, my car was the only one affected. The other cars hardly lost control, and kept going.

    Now I understand that was doing a quick arcade race to try out the game, and probably didn't give it a full chance, but first impression can be hard to overcome, and mine just wasn't that great. :indiff: Forza just didn't seem to live up to the hype it was given. The handling seemed off, and the whole spinning out at every little car-car contact got really annoying.
     
  26. Turbo Lag

    Turbo Lag Premium

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    Hmmm, ive had that spinning problem too. I think the car with more speed spins out but the less, the less likely. Ive tested this umm glitch with a Dodge Viper on the Sunset Infield Raceway(the oval). I tried hitting the crappier cars and the better cars and both FR and FF A.I cars dont seem to spin out unless you absolutely MUSH the AI onto a wall. :yuck: