Graphic Fidelity (Future Proofing) Vs Features (Fun Factor)

  • Thread starter SZRT Ice
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479
United States
New York
SZRT_CIC_Ice
As you may very well know, the PS3 is a system quite limited in memory. Thus, if a developer wants higher visual quality in certain areas, other areas would have to be sacrificed.

So my question for everyone is what would you have preferred? A GT with lesser car models and tons of features? Or the higher quality car models we have today with features lacking?

I started this in response to another member on a news article and it evolved to this. (Plus T-12 came through and laid the smack-down! XD )

"I'ma play oddball for a sec and go a very different route.

Graphical fidelity means little to nothing to me in opposed to enjoyment.

If the graphics were scaled back to better level out the features in GT, I for one would be enamored.

Looking @ other feature heavy games on PS3, I've come to understand the limitations of what the PS3 is capable of across the board. And while some games may have had one thing, they were lacking in the simulation physics that GT provides (thus, my GT preference.

I for one would be perfectly happy with Test Drive Unlimited 2 level car models (with the exception of their tires and rims) if it mean't having a livery editor and more customizable parts. And honestly, if a game had PROPER simulated physics, I wouldn't mind if it had arcade 'EVERYTHING ELSE', heck, it could be cell shaded for all that I care, as long as I can race properly and enjoy myself with the features that have become a staple in the racing scene.

Save most of the pixel counting for photo mode imo. Am I saying PS2 level detail acceptable? No, but I am fine with other car models of slightly lesser detail as seen on other PS3 games. Realistically, GT6 has car models that are GT7/GT8 ready. I understand future proofing, but for the sake of what? Keep the higher pixeled car models for the right time, and give us slightly lower detailed models with more features and a smoother game experience. That's my say..."

What do you y'all think? (Also, I'll change the title if necessary. I was also thinking of a "Looks Vs Feel" poll, pitting graphics against physics against each other in their level of importance to all gamers/racers out there.
 
5,888
Latvia
Vidzeme, Riga
Driverman447
None.
Obviously I want both, but, as you said, the PS3 is an old system. But the PS4 is out and the GT series will soon transfer to that, hopefully then it will be able to have both great graphics and a lot of features.

What I've noticed in the graphics department is that, though the cars look awesome, some of the textures in phototravel look simply awful, like in Ronda you have that monument and the text on it is all blurred. :yuck: They should put their graphical efforts in both cars and tracks if they have decided to have the most realistic gaming graphics.
 
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6,232
Canada
Canada
For me, it's an easy choice

1. Physics and core gameplay

2. Features and content

3. Lastly, graphics.

Don't get me wrong, graphics are important, but the "shiny" quickly loses it's impressiveness when placed alongside subpar gameplay.

For myself, the physics and core gameplay is quite good for a PS3 game. But I would much rather have more content, customization, etc, than watch shiny, stock looking cars spin in my garage.

Personally, I get more enjoyment and replay from more options as opposed to ultra realistic graphics.

Great graphics with poor gameplay and features is nothing more than an interactive movie with a poor storyline.
 
The ps3 hardware push is irrelevant now isn't it? Ps4 is out. And gt6 has used every inch of what hardware the ps3 has. So I don't think you can do anything else. And although gt6 has less features than gt5 at the moment. There are more cars on the track 16 instead of 12. More clarity. Sharper and smoother looking premium cars. So where's the sacrifice? Cos there isn't any. And as for smoother gameplay my gt6 runs pretty well with 16 cars tire smoking.

And when the features turn up I think the game will handle fine. They haven't lessened the features because of hardware issues.
 
3,266
FRAG-ME-CG
'Features' are not often requirements of the PS3's power, shuffle racing for example, there are many things that could/should be in the game with no effect on how gt6 looks.
 
218
Sederholm
Graphics will compete with handling/physics as they are calculations that need to be done real time, and there is a limit there.

If the game had massive detail it would be impossibly slow to render. Storing the models is a different matter and that doesn't have to be limited to what can be stored on a disc.
We could get a disc with only basic content and then download whatever isn't on the disc. Lots of games do this.
Wait a minute, we did get a disc with very basic content, only we can't download any course maker or shuffle racing.
 

Johnnypenso

Well known double poster
Premium
28,466
Canada
Windsor, Ontario, Canada
Johnnypenso
I believe everything is in the game currently, barring the as yet undelivered features, to give everyone what they want in terms of game play. It doesn't take more money or more time, what it takes is different design choices. Unless the franchise decides to move in a new direction, away from one-size-fits-all gameplay, the game will remain what it has been since GT5, a hodgepodge of features and events targeted towards a very casual newcomer to the series, stuck together without any resemblence to anything involved in racing.
 
6,232
Canada
Canada
I believe everything is in the game currently, barring the as yet undelivered features, to give everyone what they want in terms of game play. It doesn't take more money or more time, what it takes is different design choices. Unless the franchise decides to move in a new direction, away from one-size-fits-all gameplay, the game will remain what it has been since GT5, a hodgepodge of features and events targeted towards a very casual newcomer to the series, stuck together without any resemblence to anything involved in racing.

Hodgepodge....my new favourite word to describe GT :lol: Jack of all trades, master of none.
 

bjosim

GTP addicted reader
Premium
349
For me, it's an easy choice

1. Physics and core gameplay

2. Features and content

3. Lastly, graphics.

Don't get me wrong, graphics are important, but the "shiny" quickly loses it's impressiveness when placed alongside subpar gameplay.

For myself, the physics and core gameplay is quite good for a PS3 game. But I would much rather have more content, customization, etc, than watch shiny, stock looking cars spin in my garage.

Personally, I get more enjoyment and replay from more options as opposed to ultra realistic graphics.

Great graphics with poor gameplay and features is nothing more than an interactive movie with a poor storyline.

That
 
1,460
United Kingdom
England
I've recently been playing Live For Speed again.

My laptop is so crud that I can only run it on the most basic of graphics settings, but the options it gives me in regards to physics (tyre pressure/flex, huge range of suspension adjustment) plus the modding tools available for engine swaps and wheel adjustments plus all the 'cars' available through skinning etc. I couldn't care less about the graphics, the core features of the game more than make up for it, plus the modding capabilities.

If I had a good pc, I could run the graphics up to much more acceptable levels.

The layout/object editor alone could keep you busy for hours on end.

My point is that I'm all about content and features, with graphics not being a huge concern.
 
1,239
'Features' are not often requirements of the PS3's power, shuffle racing for example, there are many things that could/should be in the game with no effect on how gt6 looks.

This is absolutely correct - how much better could GT6 be made if someone took the assets used in-game and simply added features? Making races with grid starts does not need resources, it is simply a design decision - we know it can be done, as shown in the Red Bull X Challenges, but for some reason, the developers choose not to. Giving us disparate, unbalanced grids of ten cars or less in Arcade Mode is not a processing power problem - we know this from the full grids used in Career Mode.

It's the same problem with the lack of tyre wear, mechanical damage, and even the sounds - if they have to re-use samples, there are ways to make them less incorrect - for instance, the fact that the Lexus IS-F Racing Concept uses the 4-cylinder boxer race exhaust note is not a resource issue - there are V8 samples to use instead.

The most infuriating thing is that it would be quite easy to solve these silly errors, and yet they would do so much to improve the game as a complete package. If someone bothered to actually sit down and correct all the stupid design decisions made by PDI, which surely can be achieved at no cost to the performance of the console, then it could turn a good game, which it is, into a great one, which it definitely isn't.
 
2,605
Wales
Newport
NFSCARBON1
This is absolutely correct - how much better could GT6 be made if someone took the assets used in-game and simply added features? Making races with grid starts does not need resources, it is simply a design decision - we know it can be done, as shown in the Red Bull X Challenges, but for some reason, the developers choose not to. Giving us disparate, unbalanced grids of ten cars or less in Arcade Mode is not a processing power problem - we know this from the full grids used in Career Mode.

Lexus IS-F Racing Concept uses the 4-cylinder boxer race exhaust note is not a resource issue - there are V8 samples to use instead.

The most infuriating thing is that it would be quite easy to solve these silly errors.

What makes it even more frustrating is that through hacking/hybridding/modding, these issues have been fixed by gamers themselves. In GT5 we had the secret menu, allowing grid starts and us to choose what cars we raced. Then in GT6 they found sound swaps meaning you could get more correct samples without altering performance.

If computer savvy gamers can do it in their spare time, while circumventing security measures, PD employees can do it very easily.
 
1,239
What makes it even more frustrating is that through hacking/hybridding/modding, these issues have been fixed by gamers themselves. In GT5 we had the secret menu, allowing grid starts and us to choose what cars we raced. Then in GT6 they found sound swaps meaning you could get more correct samples without altering performance.

If computer savvy gamers can do it in their spare time, while circumventing security measures, PD employees can do it very easily.

That's even more infuriating! What is PDI's aversion to customisation of our experience? Why do they design these very simple tools for exactly this purpose, and then hide them from us?

As an aside, I always find it odd that GT5 and GT6 normally have a box saying "Start Type: Rolling Start", the implication being that the game must tell us our currently chosen grid type in case we were to change it. I looked forever for an option that allowed you to change that in GT5! :lol:
 
6,232
Canada
Canada
The three posts above hit the nail on the head. The amount of things in the game that are "there", but simply not accessible is mind boggling.

Same thing for the number of things that would be possible with the addition of a few menus and options. None of this would have to take away from the graphic performance of the game.

It's like, remember when you were a kid, at recess, and the supervisor wouldn't let you take out the sports equipment or toys, even though they were sitting right there. And when you would ask, "but how come we can't use them, they're just sitting there doing nothing??" the response was usually "Because..."

Instead, we get graphic detail down to being able to see the charging bull on the tire air filler cap on a Lambo. Other than the "damn, that's kind of cool" 10 seconds of enjoyment you get from seeing that bull for the first time, how does this enhance the gaming experience, at all? Do you feel better knowing that bull is there while you are ripping at 100mph+? However, it sure is a pretty nice detail to be able to roll into a board room and say "look what we can do....give us your money"
 
1,239
Instead, we get graphic detail down to being able to see the charging bull on the tire air filler cap on a Lambo. Other than the "damn, that's kind of cool" 10 seconds of enjoyment you get from seeing that bull for the first time, how does this enhance the gaming experience, at all? Do you feel better knowing that bull is there while you are ripping at 100mph+? However, it sure is a pretty nice detail to be able to roll into a board room and say "look what we can do....give us your money"

Exactly this - there is a seeming insistence on polishing minute elements of the game to an absolute mirror shine, while neglecting the big picture.

There is an almost obsessive approach to car modelling - that's great, but how can a company that prides itself on that sort of perfection and attention to detail get things like sound and AI so wrong? The car models are excellent, but the gameplay is, to an extent, straight out of 1995 - if only PDI was so obsessive in all aspects of the game.
 
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Hodgepodge....my new favourite word to describe GT :lol: Jack of all trades, master of none.

I dunno, I'd personally rather be a "jack of all trades" than simply a master of none - it's not a binary thing.

I think there's an argument to be had as to whether GT(6) really is a jack of all trades in the first place, though.
 
6,232
Canada
Canada
I dunno, I'd personally rather be a "jack of all trades" than simply a master of none - it's not a binary thing.

I think there's an argument to be had as to whether GT(6) really is a jack of all trades in the first place, though.

Ya, when you put it that way, I agree with you.

I was more just going off of "hodgepodge", which in my opinion, is actually pretty damn accurate.

I would still say that, in the context of driving/racing games, GT attempts to be all things to all people. Karting, NASCAR, Formula 1, GT500/300, Aussie V8s, Pikes Peak, GT/Le Mans cars, classic racecars, new and old Rally, X1s, D1GP (and moon mission haha)....yet they just dabble in each of these. But at the same time, we have premium WWII vehicles that are good for?? No single genre of racing in GT has enough cars to field a 16 car grid where each car is unique (or even from the same year). There are enough Karts, but only a select few tracks to really use them on.
 
Ya, when you put it that way, I agree with you.

I was more just going off of "hodgepodge", which in my opinion, is actually pretty damn accurate.

I would still say that, in the context of driving/racing games, GT attempts to be all things to all people. Karting, NASCAR, Formula 1, GT500/300, Aussie V8s, Pikes Peak, GT/Le Mans cars, classic racecars, new and old Rally, X1s, D1GP....yet they just dabble in each of these. But at the same time, we have premium WWII vehicles that are good for?? No single genre of racing in GT has enough cars to field a 16 car grid where each car is unique (or even from the same year). There are enough Karts, but only a select few tracks to really use them on.

That's not being a jack of all trades, that's offering a wider breadth of content than you can flesh out with any real depth. I think it's welcome when there are plenty of options for depth with the more "popular" kinds of content elsewhere.

Being a jack of all trades, in the context of features, is about catering to all tastes in terms of gameplay styles. That goes a bit beyond just different cars and tracks, or "official" race rules for a given series. It's things like SRF and the driving line, it's things like the course creator and photo mode and so on. It could be about things like an auction house, livery editor and other online / community aspects. It could be about collecting all the cars, or step tuning or blasting through a "career".

It's about more than just your (or my) particular preferences, is the point, and the major problem, for PD as much as it is for us.

Hodgepodge is certainly right, though. 👍


My personal opinion is that since the big picture requires the long view, PD have left the big picture simmering away in the background whilst they polish the things that can be done in the short term. When they bring that pot off the stove, perhaps we will find that they didn't put anything in it; but someone should have been tending to it, so there could be anything in there. Either that or the place'll burn down...
 
4,065
United States
Utah
I'm sure PD could've delivered a far superior game, full of features and innovative gameplay without sacrificing much of the graphic aspect. But PD seem to have a fetish on accurately modeled nuts and bolts. I surely hope GT7 changes this trend.
 
1,689
United States
NY
SavageEvil
I'm sure PD could've delivered a far superior game, full of features and innovative gameplay without sacrificing much of the graphic aspect. But PD seem to have a fetish on accurately modeled nuts and bolts. I surely hope GT7 changes this trend.

It should as we've pretty much reached the point of diminishing returns, only things left are the physics engine that needs more calculations for everything. I would be happy if I could purposely get my car up on two wheels and balance it. Perhaps they need some weight shifting for the driver to be accounted for as well as tire rotation, more realistic collisions and lose that stupid SRF; worse addition ever I hate that one aid. Hopefully they refine vehicular interaction with the world it's in.
 
541
Brazil
Santa Catarina
rafaelfagundes
GT has beautiful and high detailed cars, but the aliasing makes the game look ugly sometimes. The graphics are not well balanced in my opinion.
Personally, I think the best looking racing game on ps3 is Dirt 2.
GT is still my favourite because of the physics though.