GT Sport beta physics discussion - Read the First Post Before Replying

[GT6mebe]

Just a tip, adjust your wheel rotation to match the rotation on the screen.
The beta is not adjusting the rotation automatically, after doing this you will have better FFB, better turn in, and control in general.
Some cars with 180º of rotation it might be a litle twichy.
The game resets the rotation of your wheel every time you leave the track, so every time you enter the track you have to change the rotation.
This is what happens with the T500, i don´t know if this is a thrustmaster thing or all wheel do the same.

should post this to PD.

(double post - but since its physics related..)

Something in this crash of mine makes me think the physics department of GT Sport has done good job. Cant quite say what, but its there.

They nailed the direction and momentum. There should be more vertical lift when impacting the sidewalls, though that would be easier to model if the sidewalls were deformable. Still, looks good.

 

[queleuleu]

The collisions are so ridiculous... It looks like basic tone down solid mechanics from a kid textbook, like no element of continuum mechanics. A little of mechanics of materials could help a lot...

 

[diesel97]

The collisions are so ridiculous... It looks like basic tone down solid mechanics from a kid textbook, like no element of continuum mechanics. A little of mechanics of materials could help a lot...

And that garbage can sounds

 

[novcze]

I just meant like when you're driving on normal roads and you come to a steep downhill and a corner is coming up. You're better off downshifting than constantly braking.

And you are right, nobody should drive on limits in the traffic so downshifts and generally engine braking is non-issue.

btw. aren't bus/truck drivers taught to stay in gear and use engine braking while going downhill?

Of course for racing applies everything what Scaff says.

 

[z06fun]

PD's gotta fix this curb of death bug



Do you guys think this has something to do with the physics mechanics?

Also, I can't access GTS private forum so if some of you are more lucky, put this video there, would you? Thanks

I've hit this mysterious bump too. There seems to be another one too, exiting the first slow chicane thing, similar wide rounded curb on the left that can magically launch one side if the car. Very odd.

 

[JayRS200]

In chase cam it feels like an old arcade game. After more than 1000 miles I'm kind of used to it but it feels like a step back from GT6 in chase cam.

 

[syntex123]

And you are right, nobody should drive on limits in the traffic so downshifts and generally engine braking is non-issue.

btw. aren't bus/truck drivers taught to stay in gear and use engine braking while going downhill?

Of course for racing applies everything what Scaff says.

Indeed they are. The brakes on those things become as slippery as glass if you constantly apply light brake pressure. So they use engine braking (and sometimes at the same time they use retarder) indeed.

 

[turismoslayer]

Maybe this is physics maybe it's not, but I've never noticed this before in Gran Turismo or even Assetto Corsa and Project Cars. Here's what I'm experiencing...

I brake hard after going flat out, then after releasing the brakes the RPM's jump up about 500-1k depending on how fast I'm traveling making the car feel like it's lunging forward. It doesn't seem natural to me. What is going on?

 

[OdeFinn]

Maybe this is physics maybe it's not, but I've never noticed this before in Gran Turismo or even Assetto Corsa and Project Cars. Here's what I'm experiencing...

I brake hard after going flat out, then after releasing the brakes the RPM's jump up about 500-1k depending on how fast I'm traveling making the car feel like it's lunging forward. It doesn't seem natural to me. What is going on?

Thats thing what it should do. You have partially locked your brakes.
You're blocking engine rpm to drop below needed rpm for current speed and when you release brakes car wheels spin up quickly to equivalent speed which your car is going and rising your rpm same time.

 

[turismoslayer]

Thats thing what it should do. You have partially locked your brakes.
You're blocking engine rpm to drop below needed rpm for current speed and when you release brakes car wheels spin up quickly to equivalent speed which your car is going and rising your rpm same time.

Thanks man! It's weird I don't get any indication of brake lock up, no loss of traction or tire squeal. Though you did say partial and what I'm experiencing is definitely as you describe.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Thats thing what it should do. You have partially locked your brakes.
You're blocking engine rpm to drop below needed rpm for current speed and when you release brakes car wheels spin up quickly to equivalent speed which your car is going and rising your rpm same time.

This is only true if the wheels are locked. If they aren't locked, as @turismoslayer suggests above, then this wouldn't happen. If the wheels are actually locked with no loss of traction or tire squeal, then that's a game issue. It also shouldn't cause a surge forward but actually the reverse, the rear wheels should cause added drag as the friction from the tarmac interacts with the tires to bring the rear wheels up to speed.

 

[OdeFinn]

This is only true if the wheels are locked. If they aren't locked, as @turismoslayer suggests above, then this wouldn't happen. If the wheels are actually locked with no loss of traction or tire squeal, then that's a game issue. It also shouldn't cause a surge forward but actually the reverse, the rear wheels should cause added drag as the friction from the tarmac interacts with the tires to bring the rear wheels up to speed.

There's also possibility of clutch slip on this case, that's simulated also even on GT6, same behaviour with high grip wheels.

 

[Johnnypenso]

There's also possibility of clutch slip on this case, that's simulated also even on GT6, same behaviour with high grip wheels.

Either way it won't result in a surge forward when releasing the brakes.

 

[suprajef]

For wheel users. I have noticed on Brands hatch with the group 4 cars coming up the left hand turn uphill after T1 that my wheel pulls to the right just a little by itself. Anyone else get the same thing?

 

[EDK]

For wheel users. I have noticed on Brands hatch with the group 4 cars coming up the left hand turn uphill after T1 that my wheel pulls to the right just a little by itself. Anyone else get the same thing?

Is that just the off camber nature of the turn and the car washing out?

Maybe this is physics maybe it's not, but I've never noticed this before in Gran Turismo or even Assetto Corsa and Project Cars. Here's what I'm experiencing...

I brake hard after going flat out, then after releasing the brakes the RPM's jump up about 500-1k depending on how fast I'm traveling making the car feel like it's lunging forward. It doesn't seem natural to me. What is going on?

Yeah, totally agree. It's not right, and part of what makes managing the end of braking zones very difficult.

 

[turismoslayer]

Either way it won't result in a surge forward when releasing the brakes.

I should also add that I notice it more in the lower class N300 cars than in the higher class GT3 cars. Could it be a drivetrain issue?

 

[suprajef]

Is that just the off camber nature of the turn and the car washing out?


Yeah, totally agree. It's not right, and part of what makes managing the end of braking zones very difficult.

It does on multiple gr4 cars

 

[EDK]

I should also add that I notice it more in the lower class N300 cars than in the higher class GT3 cars. Could it be a drivetrain issue?

Yeah, I notice in Gr.4 and N300. Not necessarily Gr.3

 

[polizei]

Spent some time playing with MR cars and I'm not a pro driver with hours of seat time by any means, but the MR physics feels terrible. Weird power slides, snap oversteer, WTH is going on?!

 

[Johnnypenso]

I should also add that I notice it more in the lower class N300 cars than in the higher class GT3 cars. Could it be a drivetrain issue?

Without access to the code it'll be hard to tell. Hopefully it gets noticed and reported on the beta forum.

 

[synon]

Maybe this is physics maybe it's not, but I've never noticed this before in Gran Turismo or even Assetto Corsa and Project Cars. Here's what I'm experiencing...

I brake hard after going flat out, then after releasing the brakes the RPM's jump up about 500-1k depending on how fast I'm traveling making the car feel like it's lunging forward. It doesn't seem natural to me. What is going on?

Could be the tires on the driven wheels are slipping during braking, then the engine revs rise when the wheel rotation matches the road speed as the brakes are released.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Could be the tires on the driven wheels are slipping during braking, then the engine revs rise when the wheel rotation matches the road speed as the brakes are released.

This also happens in GT6, the revs rise a little when braking deep and there's speed difference between driven wheels. Often happens as I don't use ABS.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Could be the tires on the driven wheels are slipping during braking, then the engine revs rise when the wheel rotation matches the road speed as the brakes are released.

This also happens in GT6, the revs rise a little when braking deep and there's speed difference between driven wheels. Often happens as I don't use ABS.

This is not all that is happening as was mentioned above. The car is also apparently surging forward as the revs rise which is definitely not what should be happening, in fact, the opposite should happen.

 

[turismoslayer]

I'm going to spend a little more time with this today and try a few different cars. Unfortunately for lack of uniformity I can only do one car class per track. I'll do my best.

Edit.

So I just stuck with N300 cars for time reasons. I'll be honest that I'm not the fastest and not the most consistent of drivers. I drove 4 cars. The Focus ST '15, Evora '09, Evo '15, Mégane RS '11. Not sure if I really got anywhere but here's what I experienced.

I should share all cars had assists off and only ABS default whatever that means, the game doesn't specify. I never experienced lock up, so more than likely for these cars default means on. Plus each car had FC transmission fitted with default settings.

Each of the cars produced the same characteristic, that the engine speed would jump up a bit after brake release before turn in and throttle application. More so after long braking sections than shorter. I really noticed it happens during weight transfer, after braking weight transfers to the back, front lifts up. It feels like there is more energy or momentum that hasn't quite settled. Maybe surge wasn't the right word @Johnnypenso because vehicle speed doesn't go up but it sure gives me the sensation that it does. Who knows, maybe better trail braking would help or better weight transfer management. Maybe I'm on about nothing, maybe I don't know what I'm talking about. I did notice though the different drivetrains handled the characteristic differently so there's that.

I could do more tests, with and without FC transmission, other class cars, etc. but I just don't have time.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

I'm going to spend a little more time with this today and try a few different cars. Unfortunately for lack of uniformity I can only do one car class per track. I'll do my best.

Edit.

So I just stuck with N300 cars for time reasons. I'll be honest that I'm not the fastest and not the most consistent of drivers. I drove 4 cars. The Focus ST '15, Evora '09, Evo '15, Mégane RS '11. Not sure if I really got anywhere but here's what I experienced.

I should share all cars had assists off and only ABS default whatever that means, the game doesn't specify. I never experienced lock up, so more than likely for these cars default means on. Plus each car had FC transmission fitted with default settings.

Each of the cars produced the same characteristic, that the engine speed would jump up a bit after brake release before turn in and throttle application. More so after long braking sections than shorter. I really noticed it happens during weight transfer, after braking weight transfers to the back, front lifts up. It feels like there is more energy or momentum that hasn't quite settled. Maybe surge wasn't the right word @Johnnypenso because vehicle speed doesn't go up but it sure gives me the sensation that it does. Who knows, maybe better trail braking would help or better weight transfer management. Maybe I'm on about nothing, maybe I don't know what I'm talking about. I did notice though the different drivetrains handled the characteristic differently so there's that.

I could do more tests, with and without FC transmission, other class cars, etc. but I just don't have time.

Try this, increase LSD initial torque value to max, see if it still happen

 

[turismoslayer]

I thought this might help. There's no sound, just visual. See at about 17 or 18 seconds, that's the most noticeable. Pardon my sloppy driving and poor quality video. @Ridox2JZGTE, LSD initial is set to max.

 

[OdeFinn]

This is not all that is happening as was mentioned above. The car is also apparently surging forward as the revs rise which is definitely not what should be happening, in fact, the opposite should happen.

@turismoslayer is there any possibility at you have had simultaneous throttle input during braking, just remembered at it happened "often" to me when there was slight throttle input during braking, reason for this is pretty simple and realistic, just slipping clutch and after brake release it accelerates like rubber band pulling back to zero clutch slip, often already given more throttle during that catchup and car accelerates like slingshot.

On your video auto-blip breaks over clutch capability.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

I thought this might help. There's no sound, just visual. See at about 17 or 18 seconds, that's the most noticeable. Pardon my sloppy driving and poor quality video. @Ridox2JZGTE, LSD initial is set to max.

Saw the slight RPM rise on 17-18s, 3rd gear, I think it may have to do with the auto blip/clutch ( no speed increase, maybe the auto clutch was engaged too long ? ) or it may have to do with the LSD initial/preload slow reacting even at max ( there's no brake/throttle input when it happen on 17s ) PD may have fiddled with LSD simulation on the GTS Beta, some tuner who posted their setup are now using higher LSD values compared to GT5/6.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I thought this might help. There's no sound, just visual. See at about 17 or 18 seconds, that's the most noticeable. Pardon my sloppy driving and poor quality video. @Ridox2JZGTE, LSD initial is set to max.

At the 0:17/0:18 mark there is a surge in RPM's from 5K to nearly 6K just as you come off the brakes.

 

[turismoslayer]

At the 0:17/0:18 mark there is a surge in RPM's from 5K to nearly 6K just as you come off the brakes.

@turismoslayer is there any possibility at you have had simultaneous throttle input during braking, just remembered at it happened "often" to me when there was slight throttle input during braking, reason for this is pretty simple and realistic, just slipping clutch and after brake release it accelerates like rubber band pulling back to zero clutch slip, often already given more throttle during that catchup and car accelerates like slingshot.

On your video auto-blip breaks over clutch capability.

No simultaneous throttle. Watch the inputs, I intentionally delayed throttle input to display what's happening. Auto blip is there but this seem like it is something entirely different. I get what you're saying though.

Saw the slight RPM rise on 17-18s, 3rd gear, I think it may have to do with the auto blip/clutch ( no speed increase, maybe the auto clutch was engaged too long ? ) or it may have to do with the LSD initial/preload slow reacting even at max ( there's no brake/throttle input when it happen on 17s ) PD may have fiddled with LSD simulation on the GTS Beta, some tuner who posted their setup are now using higher LSD values compared to GT5/6.

I'm thinking too it lies somewhere in the drivetrain. I haven't noticed this behavior before in past GT's nor Assetto Corsa or Project Cars.