GT1 Car Spec Question

Discussion in 'Gran Turismo 1' started by Sphinx, Dec 29, 2006.

  1. Sphinx

    Sphinx Staff Emeritus

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    Does anyone know the correct max HP and min weight for the FTO LM Edition and the Nismo 400R that can be gained in GT1?
     
  2. Sphinx

    Sphinx Staff Emeritus

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    OK, let me put it another way:

    Are the HP and weight that's displayed in these GT1 images correct?

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  3. Famine

    Famine Administrator

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    I don't think they are. The FTO LM cannot be modified in any way (none of the original race cars could be), so should be something like 630hp and 980kg - and the lightest car in GT1 was a Demio with stage 3 at 709kg. I doubt the Nismo 400R is either, as the highest-powered car in GT1 was a tuned Nissan R33 Skyline GT-R Vspec at 941hp. So I think those images come from a 'sharked garage.

    I can't find my original car list on this computer to confirm this though.
     
  4. Sphinx

    Sphinx Staff Emeritus

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    Thanks Famine,
    I didn't think they were, I just needed someone to confirm it because it's been a very long time and my memory isn't what it used to be. ;)

    The reason I asked is because I'm trying to remember how to reproduce these cars again. They weren't 'sharked' with any external device or software, they were produced in-game by using the games Trade feature and two memory cards. The result would produce a full garage of so-called hybrid cars (together with the FTO LM Edition and the Nismo 400R). I guess it would be called an Easter Egg that the developers slipped in for their own amusment.

    I had the method written down for years but I can't find the damn thing now (moved house twice since) and my bad memory isn't helping either.

    Does anyone know what the hell I'm going on about and help me out here?
     
  5. Dave A

    Dave A Premium

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    Famines correct, I can't recall the esxact figures myself but the FTO LM couldn't be tuned up from the BHP it already had, and I don't ever recall getting any car in GT1 over 1000bhp, including the NISMO 400R which I think had about 900bhp fully tuned.
     
  6. Sphinx

    Sphinx Staff Emeritus

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    Thanks live4speed :tup:

    Well I've spent the last 3 hours trying to replicate the above, but so far I'm no closer than I was before. :tdown:

    I'll try again soon.
     
  7. Sphinx

    Sphinx Staff Emeritus

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    I guess no one here knows about what was the biggest secret in GT1 :(
     
  8. Famine

    Famine Administrator

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    It's not something with which I'm familiar, I'm afraid.
     
  9. HYBRIDLVR

    HYBRIDLVR

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    Because there is no BIG secret in GT1, Could you be more specific? The cars above are Hybrids! GT1 didn't allow for massive HP gains like the GT2 and GT3, It's still and amazing game none the less, I've done everything that could be done in GT1 as far as Hidden items, But nothing BIG other than it was the hottest Racing Sim for years...
     
  10. Famine

    Famine Administrator

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    Sphinx is quite clear that the cars are not hybrids - in the traditional sense. They have been created using nothing more than the game itself - via its trade function and a pair of memory cards:

    He just can't remember how exactly to do it. Which is fair enough, as the game's a decade old now and we've all killed quite a fair few brain cells in the interim.
     
  11. Sphinx

    Sphinx Staff Emeritus

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    If everyone knew then it wouldn't be much of a secret would it?

    No need to be more specific right now because you would've understood what I was asking if you knew this trick.

    Famine is correct, The images above are not hybrids in the traditional sense. They were created in-game using the trade feature.
     
  12. SportWagon

    SportWagon Premium

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    I would guess it was a programming oversight.

    For instance...

    If you purchase via memory-card trade a car with lots of parts, although you pay extra for those parts, they are not added to your shareable "inventory" if you don't own them already. (Background: In GT1 a part purchased for one car can be used by all instances of the identical model (where prize and purchased versions of the "same car" are actually different models)). In particular, while the part is in effect as long as you leave it there, if you remove it during tuning, it cannot be re-added until it is repurchased. That's a programming oversight. The case of tuned cars being purchased is not handled properly. Since you've paid for car plus parts, the parts should be added to the purchased parts inventory (as peculiar as the part-sharing scheme is), but they are not.

    Now, from what you are suggesting, it might be the case that if you put a hard-tuned car in the last slot of your garage, sell it, and then purchase the LM prize on top of it, the parts from the sold car are "remembered", and added to it. Or perhaps it is necessary to win the second car, so that the garage manipulation is not so careful; of course that scheme would not need two cards. I actually find it difficult to think of any possible method which would actually require two cards (as opposed to simply moving your game card to slot 2). Perhaps both purchases need to be done via memory-card trade (i.e. purchase tuned car, sell, then purchase an LM car via trade)--but I would really doubt that memory-card trade would not load the entire entry for all cars. Winning a prize after selling a hard-tuned car in the last slot sounds like the most likely method. It's not unlikely the prize-winning algorithm assumes a zeroed entry and moves in only what it thinks it needs to.

    Was this a North American game? There were two versions (evidenced by game shark locations). I've never heard of any substantial differences between the two. Wouldn't it be interesting if fixing this bug was the real reason for the new version?

    And, wait, the Nismo isn't an LM car, so that shoots part of my theory. But it is a prize. But you do suggest that some of your "hybrids" are not prize cars. Is that actually the case? All 100 cars are hybrids, but most were not prizes?

    I don't know about you, but I very rarely sell a hard-tuned car, so it would rarely be the case that the "sold" entry beyond my garage contained parts which ought to be zeroed. (Sometime I'll check whether in my versions a sale leaves a last entry beyond the garage). Actually, probably it's not necessary to sell the last entry, just that the last entry must be the car you want to "donate" parts. (Compression of the garage might leave that entry beyond it, whether or not it was the car sold). So the case I never encounter is actually "I never have a hard-tuned car as the last car in my garage, and then sell a car; in fact I usually sell the prize I just won".

    But, in any case, my theory here doesn't involve memory-card trade.

    Another variable might be whether you need to have a full 100-car garage for the method to work. I.e. perhaps a full 100-car garage prevents the correct zeroing of the "just sold" garage entry.

    I hope all this helps.

    Duh. kg means you are not using the North American version. Roman characters means you must be using the PAL version, I believe.

    Wait a minute. Are you sure you never put a GameShark near that game? You have a rather large number of credits.
     
  13. Sphinx

    Sphinx Staff Emeritus

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    SportWagon,
    Thank you, you’re a gem. At last someone who has giving my comments some thought. :tup: :tup:

    I’m right in the middle of something right now so I can’t give you more details regarding the method used to achieve my claim, but I will later tonight for sure.

    Would you be interested in working with me to get this damn thing to work again?

    Edit:
    I do have a cheat device, but don't be put off by that. This trick was first done before I got the cheat device (1999). The credits you see were added much later when I purchased my first Xplorer (EU Shark) from Blaze.
     
  14. SportWagon

    SportWagon Premium

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    I don't do much gaming anymore. On the other hand, that means turning on the PS1 won't be interrupting any "important" PS2 playing. I might poke around with what happens after a sale, purchase, and win, (I have both NA versions) but it won't be before this weekend. Since I don't have the PAL version, I'm disinclined to pursue it too hard myself, until you reconstruct your own method.

    You have a whole garage-full of "natural hybrids". Okay, I'd guess you get some particular hard-tuned car into slot 100, and then sell all the cars in that garage, thereby (we shall assume) filling all slots with the "hybrid" parts from the 100th car? But it doesn't make sense that simply repurchasing all cars via memory-card trade would not use the parts on the memory-card, and thereby overwrite the "donor" parts. Unless memory-card trade in the PAL version basically doesn't work for tuned cars? That seems unlikely. Keeping garages of tuned cars for reference, or to give to friends, was a common part of GT until it was ruined in GT4. :(

    All-in-all, it seems it would make more sense that you could set up the garage so all prizes would be hybridded. But there are only 68 prize cars, including the colour combinations, (and winning them is non-deterministic).

    So perhaps memory-card trade actually adds some of the parts using a "bit-wise or", working on the assumption that it is adding them to a zero bit map. So perhaps in the usual case (a zero entry to work with) things work properly, but if the (in)appropriate extra bits are already on, they will be left alone.

    Have you looked at some of your natural hybrids in a parts change screen? (Be careful not to change and save, or you'll likely lose the parts). This might indicate where they extra power is coming from. E.g. perhaps always a TS4 fitting. But then again, a corrupted version of one of the "permanent mods" might work better. (port-polish and engine balancing).

    I have only the vaguest ideas of the weird and non-obvious ways hybrid parts in GT1 interact. HYBRIDLVR, in contrast, knows about that in great detail.

    P.S. You do now have two, or hopefully even more, extra PS1 memory cards for your experimentation, don't you? (I.e. for safety backups).
     
  15. Sphinx

    Sphinx Staff Emeritus

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    The method as I remember it is to purchase and fully mod the R33SKYLINE 95 GT-R Vspec. Once this is done the car would be in your garage and fully modded. The car name would also be displayed in the My Home screen.

    The purpose of using two memory cards is still unclear to me as well, but I do believe it is the key to the success of this trick.

    The idea is to trade the same car that has just been purchased back to the garage, and that therefore means at some point the game has to be saved to one memory card at either memory slot 1, or 2 in order for the trade to take place.

    This also means that after the trade has taken place there are now 2 identical cars in the garage. Once this is done then one of the memory cards has to be loaded in either mem slot 1 or 2. Therefore, at some point the other memory card is used. I simply can’t remember which card has to be loaded at this point.

    The loading of one of the cards over the top of the two cars in the garage would make one think that this would simply overwrite the game and the two cars in the garage would be lost. However, when this trick works (and it works every time when the correct method is used) instead of losing the two identical cars in the garage, a complete garage is created that contains 100 fully modded and over modded (hybrid) cars.

    An indicator to the successful completion of this trick is that the purchased car that was displayed in the My Home screen changes to whatever car is the first car in the newly created garage.

    I know this is all very vague, but if the correct method is found then it works like a charm. In fact, I'm even prepared to stake my GT reputation on it.

    I know another method that does something similar to this, but I must stress it is in no way connected to this trick. It involves the use of codes to fill the garage with standard (stock) and prize cars and then using a memory card that has a number of fully modded cars (not hybrids), like the R33SKYLINE 95 GT-R Vspec for example, within the game save. The card is loaded over the top of the coded full garage and the standard and prize cars become hybrids in most cases. I would like to upload a video of this to Youtube because the transition from normal GT cars to hybrids is very much like the trick we are discussing, and it would therefore give anyone who is interested in this a better idea of what should be happening, well, what we want to happen. :)

    I'll upload the video later. :tup:
     
  16. SportWagon

    SportWagon Premium

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    So the results (i.e. actual composition of the garage) sound much less predictably customizable than I had hoped. I had wondered what the "plus GTO and Nismo" meant.
     
  17. Sphinx

    Sphinx Staff Emeritus

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    Yes, that's correct. How the garage becomes filled with cars that seem to come from nowhere is a mystery to me, and this is why I have always believed that it is an easter egg of some sort.
     
  18. Sphinx

    Sphinx Staff Emeritus

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    OK, here is a video displaying the creation of a full garage of standard (stock) and prize cars using codes. I will scan through a selection of cars in the garage to show the spec of each car. I will then load a game save over the top (that I created earlier) that contains a full garage of 100 R33SKYLINE 95 GT-R Vspec cars (video of how I created that game save is also posted below) and once loaded, I will go back into the garage to show what changes have been made to the standard and prize cars.

    Remember, the purpose of this exercise is to show what occurs when I load the saved game that contains the full garage of R33SKYLINE 95 GT-R Vspec cars over the top of the game that contains the full garage of standard (stock) and prize cars, and therefore the method I used to achieve this is irrelevant. Note that no extra credits were created on the standard and prize car game. Also note that there isn’t a car name displayed in the My Home screen.

    Although this method has no connection regarding the trade trick, because I have used shark codes, it does however give you some idea of what happens when the correct method is used for the trade trick. I’m almost certain that the final process in the trade trick method is to load one of the 2 memory cards over the top of the existing game that in turn produces the full garage of hybrided cars that I have claimed earlier.



    Here is the video of me creating the full garage of R33SKYLINE 95 GT-R Vspec cars.

     
  19. SportWagon

    SportWagon Premium

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    So it does sound like it might be a testing feature. A quick way for testers to have lots of cars available? The hybridding might actually be a glitch in its implementation?

    What did the codes do for you in the videos?

    In the second one, you create a garage full of Skylines by replicating using Memory Card Trade. What did the code do for you?

    I also don't see what the code did in the first one (i.e. chronologically second?). Interfere with the normal garage load process?

    (The fact the second video was done first confused me, actually).
     
  20. Sphinx

    Sphinx Staff Emeritus

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    I have no idea, but it's a possibilty. I just wish I could get this damn thing to work. :yuck:

    I'm going to spend a few hours on it tonight. I'll let you know the outcome. :tup:
     
  21. Sphinx

    Sphinx Staff Emeritus

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    The codes I used for the creation of the game save was for unlimited credits in order to create the full garage of Skylines.

    These codes created the full garage of mixed cars. I then used the skyline game save (I went into the trade feature in the video to show that I had indeed used the skyline mem card) and loaded it over the top of the current game that had the full garage of mixed cars.
     
  22. SportWagon

    SportWagon Premium

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    So, at this point you need some codes on for the trick to work?

    Oh wait, I see now. You are hybridding the Skylines with what the "fill garage" code creates. Presumably the "fill garage" code doesn't set all bytes of all entries. (That would be a lot of codes...)

    When creating the Skylines, you could have set codes on, saved the empty game with cash, and then run with codes off.

    Not that long ago, someone revealed that "settings files" actually store and restore a car's colour. So you can save settings files for each colour of a particular model, and change the colour of an in-garage instance of that model at will. It definitely changed the colour in races. I can't recall whether the change persisted when you left the race, or not.
     
  23. Sphinx

    Sphinx Staff Emeritus

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    For the Trade trick one doesn't need any codes for it to work, but I did for this video example.

    I simply used codes for the video example to show the transition that takes place when I load the skyline game save over the top of the current game that contains the full garage of mixed cars. All I was trying to do was to show something similar to what happens when the Trade trick is applied correctly.

    Once the skyline game save is loaded in the video all the mixed cars in the current game then become fully modded and in many cases far exceed their normal HP limit, the 400R, Castrol Supra and FTO LM for example. You can see the transtion because before I loaded the skyline game save in the video I went into the mixed car garage and hightlighted certains cars, and I then did the same after loading the skyline game save to show the difference. Before and after.

    No, the skylines aren't hybrided at all, it's the mixed cars in the current garage that are hybrided once I load the skyline game save over the top of the current game that has the full garage of mixed cars.

    I loaded the credit codes, started the game, purchased the car, gave it some mods, filled the garage and saved the game. I could've reset the game after saving without the credit codes on,but the result would've been the same. The use of codes is irrelevant, that wasn't the excercise here, the excercise was to show an example that is close to what happens with the trade trick. the important part in the video is what happens when I load the skyline game save over the top of the current game that has the mixed cars in the garage, because it's close to what happen with the Trade trick. :tup:
     
  24. SportWagon

    SportWagon Premium

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    What is happening is that the "fill garage code" is always in effect. As you load the garage of Skylines, the first byte of each garage entry gets rewritten by the enhancement device to a different car. So they are a hybrid of that base car code (first byte of the garage entry), together with all the Skyline parts (including race modification) which were added to the Skylines.

    So it's a toss-up to say whether the Skylines are hybridded with the base car codes, or the base car codes are hybridded with the Skyline parts.
     
  25. SportWagon

    SportWagon Premium

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    Do you recall the trade trick producing a full garage very quickly, or did you need to do one distinct purchase to create each hybridded entry?
     
  26. Sphinx

    Sphinx Staff Emeritus

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    Once the correct method is applied, the garage becomes full of cars as soon as the last process of the method is applied.
     
  27. Sphinx

    Sphinx Staff Emeritus

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    I've been digging into the Internet archives to see if I can find anything that would jog my memory. It didn't do much good, however, I did find something of interest that documents that I wasn't using a GameShark for the cars I was using at that time, and it also indicates that I was using something different than anyone else, the Trade Trick to be exact.

    This archive dates back to Jan/feb 2000, although the records in this archive date back to 1999. http://web.archive.org/web/20010319232823/racing-line.org/gt/autumnring.html

    The above link displays a list of record times from that era. In the ‘Assistance’ field there are three options, ‘None’ = no assistance was used, GameShark = a hybrid was used, and ‘Other’ indicated that something else was used to assist the driver to achieve the submitted time. The number 2 ranked driver is Angli Saxon (aka Anglo Saxon, PDQ and Sphinx) and is the only driver who had submitted using the ‘Other’ assistance option. The reason for this is due to the fact that I had used the Trade trick to assist me in obtaining the submitted time.
     
  28. Sphinx

    Sphinx Staff Emeritus

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    And another:

    http://web.archive.org/web/20000603205450/www.racing-line.org/cgi-bin/robboard.pl?action=display&num=125

    Surprise surprise, no one made a comment and the time was deleted even though hybrids were acceptable submissions back then. I guess no one knew much about wheelies back then. :sly:
     
  29. Sphinx

    Sphinx Staff Emeritus

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  30. HYBRIDLVR

    HYBRIDLVR

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    Sure we did, 786mph was a sign he couldn't get it out of neutral?---------Just kidding, How could he prove it? The most HP in GT1 was about 3,000HP, That's not enough for 786 miles an hour unless a wheelie kicked in, Were wheelies possible in GT1? I always built them to handle and thought that wheelies were for replays, I know wheelies were quite simple in GT2 and GT3 but I never seen them in GT1.