GT4 Tuning Guides - Part 2 added 22/03/06

Discussion in 'GT4 Tuning' started by Scaff, Dec 16, 2005.

  1. Scaff

    Scaff Staff Emeritus

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    Since I bought GT4 I have been putting together notes, test and other information regarding GT4 tuning. Particularly in the areas of Suspension and Brakes, some of this has been posted here at GTP.

    I have also been writing up my notes so that I had a useable and readable guide to suspension and brake tuning, and in the spirit of Christmas, here is my present to all my fellow GTP members.

    Scaff's Suspension and Brake set-up guide.
    .....its around 2.1 meg so should not take long to download.


    GT4 Downforce, LSD and Gear Ratio Tuning Guide, size is 1.6meg and its .pdf format.


    Edited 5/2/09 - Download the guides from here now - click to open post in GT5 sub-forum


    OK I've now finished the second part of the GT4 tuning guide, which covers Downforce, Differential and Gear Ratio tuning. Enjoy

    I hope you all enjoy it and find it useful.


    Regards

    Scaff

    BTW - I am more than aware of the threads regarding the possability that suspension tuning is backwards in GT4. My views on this subject are generally well known and are covered in guide. Please remember I originally wrote this for myself, if you disagree with the fundimentals of the guide, then put pen to paper and write your own.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2009
  2. Boundary Layer

    Boundary Layer Premium

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    Thanks Scaff - should be interesting to compare your notes to those I've kept in my race log. I've got my own impressions and beliefs set in place and with them I haven't had too much trouble piecing together car setups for myself. Hopefully there is a lot of agreement between your notes and my own.

    btw - if you want permanent hosting I'm more than willing to place it on my webspace for you. Give me a PM if interested and I'll fire back a permanent link for you.


    edit:
    blown away by the effort that went into this guide Scaff. I was not expecting anything nearly so well written and organized. I thought it would just be a collection of point-form notes, etc - like mine are :O

    :tup:

    I'm still making my way through it, but so far this looks like a *must have* reference for anyone new to or struggling with GT4 Tuning and physics.
     
  3. DuckRacer

    DuckRacer Premium

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    Holy crap........

    This should be stickied. I need to tell Duke about this. :tup:

    And Scaff, take up BL's offer. This shouldn't disappear.
     
    StrokerAce likes this.
  4. Scaff

    Scaff Staff Emeritus

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    Thanks for the feedback guys, glad you like it.

    I just seemed to get a bit carried away with it when I was putting it together, part of my job is to write training manuals in the motor industry, so it wasn't a major step to put this together.

    @BL Hosting it would be great, yousent-it is an excellent way of getting it up here in the first place, but its a pain to have to keep putting stuff up. A permenant place for people to access it would be wonderful.

    Regards

    Scaff
     
  5. Boundary Layer

    Boundary Layer Premium

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    Check your PM's Scaff, there's a link for you to add to the first post.

    - - - - -

    Just finished reading it through, and I'm astonished with the level of detail. It is a great write-up - not too wordy, but not just a chart of 'cause and effect' either. I'm really impressed by it. :tup:
    (equally impressed with myself that my notes, by-and-large, agree with your findings :sly: )

    I may need to make several references to it when I eventually rewrite the Drift Reference (now horribly outdated).

    I'm glad you included the BMW settings example at the end of the guide. It gives an accurate accounting of how increasing the front damper settings may actually promote a touch more oversteer at corner entry, despite the fact that setting front stiff - rear soft would in most cases be recipe for understeer.
    Generating oversteer at corner entry is a necessity in drifting, and I've argued with a lot of people about decent ways of achieving this. I'm relieved that your methods agree with one of mine - now I can just point people towards your guide to support my point.
    :tup: :tup:


    I vote for a sticky! :sly:
     
  6. Scaff

    Scaff Staff Emeritus

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    Done, I've updated the first post. Thanks :tup:

    - - - - -
    Thanks, I tried hard to make it as user friendly as I could.


    Feel free to reference it all you want.


    Thanks for that, Dave_George who runs the 'ring weekly series sugested it, and I'm damn glad he did.

    With regard to the BMW damper settings, one thing I have found with GT4 is it forces you to think about the weight transfer a lot more.

    Me too (but I am biased)

    Regards

    Scaff
     
  7. crimson_menace

    crimson_menace

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    Thanks Scaff, well done.

    I also vote for a sticky!
     
  8. zefff

    zefff

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    I will have to digest this later. My settings are far from scientific if I am honest so this should be great for my education in that from what Ive read of Scaff's views (in his Bestuner reports) he has a great sensitivity and perception regarding a cars setup. I cant wait to asorb Scaff's knowledge to make my settings style stronger. Well done!
     
  9. sucahyo

    sucahyo

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    Nice book :tup: !
    Too bad no one have the time to do extreme value testing on GT4.
     
  10. Dave_George

    Dave_George

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    Scaff,

    Great to see this up for all to appreciate, you already know my thoughts on this.

    Well done mate :tup: I hope GTP give it the recognition i feel it deserves.

    regards

    Dave
     
  11. nos2

    nos2

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    Great job. That's a very comprehensive guide.
     
  12. viperpilot

    viperpilot

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    the only thing i can say is "WOW" ......very well done mate, good job!! congrats to you....
     
  13. niky

    niky Moderator

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    :lol: I can't believe I read that all in one sitting.

    Thanks for all that, Scaff... your posts have always been informative, and having all this information in one place makes it just perfect. One thing, ought to have mirrored that top-down picture of the Caterham, as it appears to be turning left when the example is for a car turning right... but otherwise, a great GREAT read, and a definite YES for another sticky, if not a standalone page on the site.
     
  14. Scaff

    Scaff Staff Emeritus

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    Again thanks to all of you for the great feedback and I'm glad people are finding it of interest.

    Regards

    Scaff
     
  15. Duke

    Duke Staff Emeritus

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    Stickied! I'll have to go through this and see your thoughts in detail, Scaff! Thanks for making this.
     
  16. amp88

    amp88

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    Very interesting read :tup:

    I've always been terrible when it comes to setups in the GT series, so I usually just use someone else's settings and fiddle around until I think it's slightly quicker, but hopefully this will inspire me to do some work of my own from scratch.

    Thanks Scaff and Boundary Layer for hosting it :tup:

    P.S. I didn't notice a section on wings/downforce, Scaff...was this an oversight or was it left out intentionally?
     
  17. Scaff

    Scaff Staff Emeritus

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    @ Duke Thanks for the sticky, I hope you enjoy it.

    @ amp88 I wanted to cover just suspension and brakes here, as thats what the majority of my notes cover (well the ones I can still read), I do intend to add to this guide with info on downforce, gear ratios, LSD, etc.

    Don't hold you breath on these, need a bit of a break after the time this one took.

    Regards

    Scaff
     
  18. amp88

    amp88

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    Ok, cool. I suppose downforce doesn't alter the suspension and/or brake setup or operation that much on most cars anyway (presumably only racing cars and/or cars fitted with racing parts).
     
  19. DuckRacer

    DuckRacer Premium

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    How long did this take to create?
     
  20. Boundary Layer

    Boundary Layer Premium

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    Not wanting to turn this into a debate over the effects of downforce and it's interaction with other parts of a setup.... but just to answer amp88:

    Adding downforce to one end of a car is essentially like adding weight (it is a downward force, just like weight is). In that sense, adding downforce should be treated in much the same way as adding additional ballast weight - if your spring rates are too soft you may run out of travel as you undergo high speed accelerations (ie. braking and/or turning).

    The difference between weight and downforce as I have compared them here, is the amount of downward force generated by adding wings is proportional to the square of your velocity for a given lift coefficient and air density (which are constants in GT4), and wing planform area (this is altered as you fiddle with downforce settings - it is increased as you set the dowforce settings higher). So on low speed courses, the effectiveness of your downforce settings will be diminished.

    I suppose for completeness it should be noted that adding downforce will have little effect on weight transfer. You have not added any mass to the car, only force(s).
    Basically you get the benefit of increased grip (summarized by: F = u*N, - N is normal force, or supporting force acting at each wheel), without increased momentum.
     
  21. amp88

    amp88

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    Yeah, but downforce isn't constant across a speed range (as mass would be). The behaviour of a car is going to be affected by both the amount of downforce and the ratio from front to back. If you get your car set up so that it's neutral (or near enough) throughout a lap and then stick a wing on, the balance is going to be changed by the wing, possible causing the car to exhibit understeer at low speeds and oversteer at high speed (or vice versa). Anyway...hopefully in the next part Scaff will cover this for us (no rush mate :lol: )
     
  22. Scaff

    Scaff Staff Emeritus

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    Writing it up took about 20 - 30 hours in total, with editing and checking.

    However the creation of all the notes, tests, etc would be as long as I have had GT4, so its been a work in progress for the last nine months (what with GT4 being released in March in the UK).

    It is of course still on going.

    @ amp88 & Boundary Layer Downforce will be covered in the future I promise, but as its effects do vary with the vehicles speed (which can cause some problems) I did not want to include it in this guide. That and I still have a fair bit of testing to do in this area.

    Regards

    Scaff
     
  23. Consigliere

    Consigliere Premium

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    Really interesting and useful, but for the average GT4 driver (that would be me) probably much more detail than I can ever make use of. I found the conclusions excellent though and will hopefully be able to make the new-found knowledge work for me. :D

    Thank you for the big effort! :tup:

    Cheers!
     
  24. Scaff

    Scaff Staff Emeritus

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    Thanks for the comments and feeback PF, hopefully it will continue to be of use to you.

    :tup:

    Regards

    Scaff
     
  25. Small_Fryz

    Small_Fryz Premium

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    Very nice guide!!

    Thanks very much for creating this scaff, and it seems you share the same views as me on how it works.

    Wonderful Job!! :tup:, will help a lot in the WRS ;) :tup:!!
     
  26. Scaff

    Scaff Staff Emeritus

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    Glad you have found it useful, and to see that we share the same views on this subject.

    Good luck in the WRS and I hope th eguide helps grab a few extra places, any questions, please don't hesitate to ask.

    Regards

    Scaff
     
  27. DeLoreanBrown

    DeLoreanBrown

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    Real Pro Guide, helps me visualize weight transfer in ratios a good deal better and also the section on brakes and tyre choice is top-notch, ile use this 'in the field', mate. But, woah! is that a sneaky wing thingy on the Speed12 ? Are you sure TVR&Ferrar has seen this ? :lol:
     
  28. Scaff

    Scaff Staff Emeritus

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    Good to hear the feedback and very, very glad its helped, makes all the hours I put in with the tests worthwhile.


    It is a not very sneaky bloody big black wing on the Speed 12, and yes TVR&Ferr has seen (and moaned about) it, trouble is he only real road legal Speed 12 also has a big black wing on the back. My one is a homage to the real one.

    Here's some settings, a write-up and info if you're interested.

    BESTuners - Scaff's TVR Speed 12 - No driver aids

    Regards

    Scaff
     
  29. LOonIE

    LOonIE

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    i would say, this set-up-guide for GT4 is the best of the world!

    great job!
     
  30. Scaff

    Scaff Staff Emeritus

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    Thanks & I hope it proves to be useful, keep an eye on my posts in BESTuners to see it put into practice.

    Regards

    Scaff