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LP400 vs 365 GTB/4
Classic fight of the 70's
Can the New Lambo beat the older Fezza?
***Looks ***
This is a tough call. If you like the "cab-forward" sharp angles and looking futuristic then Gandini's Countach will win all day. If like long phallic bonnets with a classic Grand Tourer lines then Fioravanti's 365GTB/4 could be the one. Both are style Icons. the Daytona was such a nice looking car Rover of England based the big bruising V8 SD1 (Used in The UK as 'the' Police Pursuit vehicle for ages.) The Countach? It started a trend for the Clown car - sorry Supercars that followed. Form over functionality. You would assume the Countach was the one that took 7 days to design and then 19 years for the engineers to try to fix the fundamental issues before they threw in the towel and Swapped over to the Diablo. But Fioravanti only took a week to create the Ferrari 365GTB4. (Even God took Sunday off!)
***Historical racing Pedigree ***
The Daytona smokes the Countach on this one. The 365GTB/4 won so many long distance races; a hat trick of class victories at Le Mans and came 2nd outright at Daytona 24 hours in 1979. But the Lamborghini Countach was the Pace car at the Monaco Grand Prix... erm and Okay the 365GTB/4 dominates this bit!
***Once more, with feeling.***
The Daytona was a real star of the actual Cannonball Sea to Shining Sea race when Dan Gurney and Hal Yates drove it. Footage is... rare. But I remember seeing the Ferrari featured in the
Gumball Rally film of 1976 when Raul Julia drove a Daytona. The Countach? The only film I can remember it being in was the
Cannonball Run with Burt Reynolds et alia. Adrienne Barbeau in the Lamborghini Countach actually win. Spoilers (Front and rear!)
So in the Battle of the Big Screen (
Gumball Rally Vs.
The Cannonball Run) the Ferrari Daytona only managed 2nd place (To an AC Cobra), the Countach actually won beating the likes of Roger Moore (Aston Martin), Dean Martin (Ferrari) and Jackie Chan (Subaru!).
On the small screen the Daytona was on prime time 1980's show
Miami Vice as Crockett's car. In the show it was a GTS/4 soft top and not the GTB/4 Berlinette - but in reality it was a Corvette with a kit car body to make it look like a 365GTB/4!
***Speed. ****
Firstly if you look at the speedometer you will see a bit of a clue as to which is faster. The Ferrari's speedo goes all the way to 160mph, the Countach goes all the way to an incredible 240mph...
But they both lie!
I ran SS7 and the Lamborghini actually hit the rev limiter at 198mph... The gearbox is just about perfectly balanced to exploit the power of the engine. The Daytona just didn't have the grunt. I could only get the Ferrari up to 177mph not quite up to the rev limiter in fifth. Maybe on a long run in a slipstream then you may hit it. So both have well placed top gear ratios. Commendable when you compare them to the American Muscle cars that are all muzzled by their gearboxes. (Italians more practical than Americans... who would have thunk it!)
***Engine***
V12 4390cc - 347bhp - 44 torques - 7700 redline
The Ferrari has a further refined version of the venerable Colombo V12.
V12 3929cc - 374bhp - 37 torques - 8000 redline
The Miura V12 but instead of being mounted sideways (Transversely) it is mounted longitudinally... only they put it in backwards so the power goes forward to the gearbox and then the drive shaft goes under the engine, through the sump, to the rear wheels... And I thought that BRM were the only guys to make engines just a bit more over engineered than it really needed to be!) The Engine was smaller than the original planned 5 litre V12 - but the Miura Engine needed more cooling, so the Lamborghini sprouted various vents and scoops to feed it sips of vital cooling air.
Considering Ferrari value the engine over pretty much everything else on the car, the Lambo has more from less.
***Life Span***
The Daytona came into production in 1968 and was phased out in 1973... just 5 years.
The Countach was displayed in Geneva in 1971, finally entered production in 1974 and was being churned out until 1990 - 16 years.
However...the LP400 version was phased out in 1978 - so maybe it only lasted 4 years?
*** Rarity Value***
The Daytona had 1284 Fixed heads produced... so a much more common car.
157 LP400's were made, 2,040-2,050 or so Countach's were made in total - so a very rare antediluvian Countach (Before the flood of progressively fatter and more circus themed
(Mr. Pagani - is that you?) cars once the company bounced out of receivership in the mid 80's.)
***Rear View.***
The Daytona has a huge view out that big back window.
The Countach - ah the Countach... My Microwave Oven has a better view through the window. The Daytona is the clear winner here but you have to point out how the Countach made things even worse in the 80's by moving the position of the carburettors from the side of the engine to the top later in its lifecycle - So in comparison the LP400 has a panoramic view back there. - But lets be brutally Honest? I'm not going to blackball the for having a letterbox rear view window.
***Engine Note***
Lumbering V12's the Ferrari has that musical sound. The Lamborghini is a bit more urgent. At constant High Speed the Lamborghini was annoying but at Willow Springs both were great. So the car that Excels at High Speed stuff sounds worse at constant high revs...
***Horn***
The Ferrari has the high pitch beep; pass a pretty laydee and the horn has that "Ciao Bella!" Feel. The Lamborghini has a twin horn that has a more "Entrance of the Gladiators" feel to it. (I'll let you search Google for that tune. It is a classic.) Both let you perform an Airhorn burst that is ever so popular on the interweb - but these two cars had them over 40 years ago!
***Weight***
1065kg - Countach LP400
1200kg - Daytona
The Lamborghini is a lean mean clean machine. The 365GTB/4 is not exactly a chunky monkey at 1200kg... but it is still 135kg heavier.
*** Centre of Gravity ***
The Lamborghini has alot of weight over the rear axel. This gives it alot of natural traction but it also makes for a large slice of high speed understeer as the front tyres just can't bite into the road. The 365GTB/4 has a perfect 50:50 split and no such issues.
***0-60***
5.4 seconds for both cars in real life. (I don't do drag race testing, so have a peek in another review for those.)
***Paint chips***
5 Ferrari - has a Dark Blue
7 Lamborghini Has a Silver and Orange (And a Green!)
***Brickyard Flying Lap***
Countach - 59.6
Daytona - 60.4
This was just a 5 lap shot. but I could get the Lambo under a minute on every lap. The Daytona wasn't quite up to it when I was pedalling it.
***Handling***
I took them on a trip to California's Willow Springs. Fastest track west of the Mississippi. "10 Minute races" in A Spec - gave me time to get used to the car and a few laps to set a representative time.
The Lamborghini was nice. Alot of weight at the back but the rear tyres keep on gripping. But back in the 70's the car would not have had Sports Hards...
Look at how narrow those rear tyres are. I ran the same track on progressively less grippy tyres. I'm not sure what grade rubber they had so let us try them all and see if we find a dangerous set!
The car was Good fun, but felt very nervous into fast corners with Big Grip tyres the understeer pushes the car through corners. It isn't a maniac of oversteer, even on Comfort Hards you hard to really abuse the back end to get the outside rear to light up into a drift that I found pretty easy to deal with. Lots of fun to be had on tyres you normally find at the end of a Jetty.
Lamborghini Countach LP400 (ABS=0 TCS=0)
SH - 1m24.5
CS - 1m26.7
CM - 1m29.1
CH - 1m32.6
The Daytona was mugged in the top speed test but on pukka track things seemed to get reversed. The high speed stability of the long sleek front engined car, makes the big turns effortless on Sport Hard Semi Slicks (Maybe 28 laps of practice in the Countach made me a bit more 'on form' when I had was asked to perform some wheelmanship with the Ferrari? - But part of me is thinking the actual Time is the one set on Comfort Hards.)
The car felt rock solid and predictable. That confidence in the car means you have no fear into the corners and you are able to really attack the track from the get go. Perhaps you can do the same with the Lamborghini but off the bat the level of grip felt very easy to gauge in the Ferrari whereas the Lamborghini has a slightly slippery feeling as you brake and enter a corner that didn't inspire me to do much more than prevent the car from running off track.
Comfort Softs and I was still able to thread the sweeper flat and have an easy time getting the car to slow down and in shape for the pivotal final corner.
Mediums and the wheels began to fall off the car was more prone to overworking the tyres and once one tyre goes the cars excellent balance is lost in either a cloud of power oversteer or a locked up understeer through a corner- Like the Countach it has more potential but the weight is beginning to work against the car on more 1970's levels of grip.
Comfort Hards-
"Thank you for purchasing this set of Comfort Hard tyres - Your Man Card(tm) has been endorsed - Stay on the edge of adhesion, my friend."
Predictable I guess comes to mind. You can break traction into the sweeper and power slide with ease.
Ferrari 365 GTB/4 (ABS=0 TCS=0)
SH - 1m23.4
CS - 1m25.7
CM - 1m29.3
CH - 1m32.4
So on a real race track the Ferrari edges the Lamborghini! 3-1
This is going nowhere! The Lamborghini is Harder to drive at the limit, it goes faster but its brakes are much more prone to lock ups at the front. The Ferrari is easier in comparison. Which is best depends on, not only how good you are, but how long you can keep it up for. If you lose focus and you end up 20 yards too deep into a brake zone, then you have next to no chance of saving yourself or the Primadonna car.
The Ferrari lets you muck about near the edge and gives you much more "elbow room" in corners to overtake and choose alternate lines.
The Lamborghini is a bit picky on racing lines and isn't best pleased if you have a last moment change of heart over your chosen line - but once you accept that you will need to take baby steps, the car reveals itself to be okay in the twisty bits.
***Willow Springs 20 miler***
Lamborghini Countach LP400
1m20.9 - 11m45.5 (SS Pitstop Lap4)
1m20.5 - 11m43.6 (SS Pitstop Lap4)
Traffic was not really a problem. On SS tyres the Lamborghini is much less of a handful, And it doesn't kill its tyres letting me race the full stint with only a minor concern over the state of my left rear tyre. Fuel it is pretty much perfect - If you downchange a lot you may coast out of fuel out of the last corner. Handling was good.
Ferrari 365GTB/4
1m20.9 - 11m40.5 (SS Pitstop Lap4)
1m20.6 - 11m39.4 (SS Pitstop Lap4)
The Ferrari feels like it has considerably more grip than the Countach High speed corners weight transfer isn't a factor as you are hitting corners flat out so the fundamental high speed understeer is something that greatly limits the potential of a car with more power and less weight. The Daytona Is like the wily old timer who has the experience to just outperform the flash young buck - for now at least. It used its tyres very evenly and if anything was a bit more of a drinker than the Countach but even captain leadfoot couldn't run the V12's out of fuel after just 20 miles of Willow Springs.
***Which car to pick? ***
If you had to pick instantly the Glamourous looks of the Countach will get the win. However, after so many laps in both cars I know the Ferrari is a car I could push every single lap and really ring the neck out of the car. The Lamborghini felt off balance - but not in an eager Lotus 'chasing after every apex you put in front of it' kind of way.
I choose. The Ferrari 365GTB/4
(Ferrari formerly known as Daytona.)
Close but the miles just made the
Threesixfivegeeteebeeforwardslashfour feel nearly perfect whereas the shortcomings of the Countach began to annoy.
. Anyways, how does it drive? In GT6 it feels quite loose, but gripped to the road. That helps quite a bit because you can go I to most corners with this and feel safe upon exit. So, is it worth the extra $300k over the Countach?
.
