GT6 Harder?

[Fanapryde]

After i gold it i will switch on SRF and see how many seconds i improve

good luck... You can't switch SRF on...

 

[Bo]

good luck... You can't switch SRF on...

For those who are heavily reliant on SRF, this is going to be a huge wake-up call.

 

[SnakeOfBacon]

I don't think I ever golded this on GT3.

Ah yes, I distinctly remember, I played GT3 for a long time and I never even got BRONZE in that, and when I quit for the day to try later I lost all progress towards my S license . Massively discouraged, I went on to play other games and when I came back to GT3, I couldn't get anywhere with the S-License tests. (Last year though I did buy and finish GT Concept '02 and got my free S-License and bazillion Credits with it, so I could go back to finish up the last events, yet despite doing the Super Speedway Endurance eight times I've never won an F1 car for the last race series.

Anyway, enough rambling about my S-License woes, yes, the new FT-1 seasonal has SRF off for a change (👍) and the time to beat is tighter than some of the others (but much easier than that first MiTO seasonal at Stowe, that one was nasty)
TIPS:

- Feathering the throttle on exits to avoid understeer is crucial, but if you put some beans into it without getting into full opposite lock fast, you will find that the FT-1 is essentially, a doughnut factory.

- The racing line brake points in the final low speed section are quite wrong (as per usual ), but the line itself is dead-on.

 

[CinnamonOD]

*Looks thread*

*Remembers GT1 license tests and races*

Yeah, GT6 seasonals have been getting very hard lately


*Foul language warning*

 

[Alss]

Quite, but some people do like a challenge from their games.

Yes but as a "game" It has to complement all walks of life and ages games are not just for the one there for all to enjoy at there own level a games progress should not be capped simply because a licence or task is unobtainable to the causal or younger gamer.
Maybe if you need more of a challenge you should stop playing "games" and take the sport up for real .

 

[spencer7x7]

*Looks thread*

*Remembers GT1 license tests and races*

Yeah, GT6 seasonals have been getting very hard lately


*Foul language warning*

Damn, that brings back the memories. Also I'll try the seasonals when I have the time, last time I attempted one like a week ago, I only got to bronze, maybe it's the motivation or anything but there's no good decent rewards for golding them.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Yes but as a "game" It has to complement all walks of life and ages games are not just for the one there for all to enjoy at there own level a games progress should not be capped simply because a licence or task is unobtainable to the causal or younger gamer.
Maybe if you need more of a challenge you should stop playing "games" and take the sport up for real .

Not everything in life is attainable. The game can be designed so that everything from license tests to career modes are challenging and achievable for everyone. Instead, you get the entire game dumbed down to the level of a 9 year old with a DS3 and his first racing game. No one is saying that the 9 year old shouldn't have fun, but to design the entire game around him doesn't appeal much to those that have played the series from the beginning or through several iterations. Think outside the box.

 

[Alss]

Not everything in life is attainable. The game can be designed so that everything from license tests to career modes are challenging and achievable for everyone. Instead, you get the entire game dumbed down to the level of a 9 year old with a DS3 and his first racing game. No one is saying that the 9 year old shouldn't have fun, but to design the entire game around him doesn't appeal much to those that have played the series from the beginning or through several iterations. Think outside the box.

The "game" has to appeal to the masses not the few , as for thinking outside the box it doesn't apply in this case only simply logic.

 

[mistersafeway]

The previous games all sold much better, so "appealing to the masses" has, in theory, driven away a lot of existing customers without bringing in new ones, and left the ones who are still here bored with the underlying game (career mode), and only having fun we create for ourselves (online play, WRS, et cetera). 'Only a fool continues to claim that a decision was the correct one in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.': I can't remember if that's a saying or not, but it should be. Only snappier.

 

[Samus]

The "game" has to appeal to the masses not the few , as for thinking outside the box it doesn't apply in this case only simply logic.

The game can appeal to the masses whilst still having an 'optional' extra level of difficulty. You get it all the time in games with optional side quests, optional harder bosses etc. I'm playing Final Fantasy X HD right now and that is full of extra content that requires hours and hours of extra time and skill put into to complete, but the masses can just stick to the story and completely ignore it. They won't complete the game fully, but they'll finish the main core of it and get their moneys worth.

How does that translate to Gran Turismo? Well in the past it is that for most timed events/trials the Bronze time is fairly easy to obtain, the golds are MUCH harder but totally optional. You only need Bronze to progress, but Gold will get you an extra car, or whatever. Not everyone needs to be able to complete those for the game to appeal to them, but in GT6 PD have made it so gold/perfect is obtainable by the masses because the times are much easier, giving no challenge for the more hardcore guys.

The Sebastian Vettel challenge is a clear example of that. In GT5 bronze took a bit of work but was fairly simple to obtain for the masses. Three bronze completed the event and got you a car. Then it had an extra level of challenge, the gold time. In the event you couldn't drive off track even slightly and golding all three events legit was VERY hard. In GT6 not only did they make the gold times much easier to attain they also allowed you to drive off track and take shortcuts. No penalty. You could also ram and barge the car on track.

So yes, they certainly can design the game to appeal to the masses but still give something more for the more 'hardcore' or whatever you want to call them. They choose not to, they chose to make it much easier so anyone could complete it, one might assume so more people can get the platinum trophy that so many crave these days.

 

[BrandonW77]

The "game" has to appeal to the masses not the few , as for thinking outside the box it doesn't apply in this case only simply logic.

Then how do you explain the much higher difficulty and length of GT's 1-4? I played GT4 almost daily for years and never completed it and had massive challenging fun in the races and license tests. On GT6 I achieve gold on the first attempt almost every time and win every career race with ease. The offline portion of the game was completed within a week, even a 9 year old probably expects more from a game than a week's worth of play.

Why, suddenly, does the challenge and depth of GT4 have to be dumbed down for the masses with new versions of the game? Why is there nothing provided to entertain the hardcore players who enjoy/desire a challenge? And seeing as previous versions of the game sold tens of millions of copies, why is there a sudden need to make it more accessible to the masses? Seems to have been pretty accessible looking at those sales numbers.

 

[Tails]

Not everything in life is attainable. The game can be designed so that everything from license tests to career modes are challenging and achievable for everyone. Instead, you get the entire game dumbed down to the level of a 9 year old with a DS3 and his first racing game. No one is saying that the 9 year old shouldn't have fun, but to design the entire game around him doesn't appeal much to those that have played the series from the beginning or through several iterations. Think outside the box.

That's why you usually add difficulty levels.

On a side note, I'm not playing it very often by I think after 1.05 update, the game got pretty harder on offline career too.
I had no problem finishing in 1st place until IA career. Now I'm lucky when i get 3rd or 2nd. Oh, and the rain....

 

[Master__Shake_]

Then how do you explain the much higher difficulty and length of GT's 1-4? I played GT4 almost daily for years and never completed it and had massive challenging fun in the races and license tests.

I started the GT series with 4, so I can't speak for the first 3 games, but I can say that they were severely limited by hardware of the PS2 when configuring the physics for GT4. Coming from nothing but arcade driving games before then, it was an intensely steep learning curve jumping into it for the first time. That said, I believe 5 and 6 were made "easier" by the realism that the PS3 allowed PD to implement because of its superior hardware. It seems the series has evolved more from a, purists would disagree, arcarde-y game to a modern and real feel that only a simulator can provide.

Still, I have been told by gamer friends that the GT series is overwhelming to outsiders and not the game of choice for casual racing. It is a highly competitive, non-arcade racing simulator that needs some driving knowledge to win a race. Considering other driving games on the market are 20 hours or less of tracks that have barriers or invisible walls with, at most, 2 configurations per track, GT6 is an altogether different animal. Over 1200 cars, most having power upgrades and suspension tuning available, compared to games that usually have less than 50 cars. It may be easier to those of us who have played multiple games of the series, but not to anyone just joining in. I think Kaz was trying to simplify certain aspects of the early game for those that feel they are outsiders and want to see what they're missing.

 

[Vegard]

The previous games all sold much better, so "appealing to the masses" has, in theory, driven away a lot of existing customers without bringing in new ones...

Cum hoc ergo propter hoc.

 

[mistersafeway]

Precisely why I said 'in theory'. It's not theory that the majority view, based on what I've read here and spoken about in lobbies, is that people aren't happy with how easy the game is, which is likely to be a contributing factor in many who own the previous games but waited for others' opinions not buying the game so far. That, and the other issues people (not myself) have with the game. Yes, it's probable that it's not the main cause, but where are all these people an easier game is supposed to appeal to?

 

[Vegard]

The only things that are "too easy" are the ones where you can't pick the car and tyres according to ability, and events with mandatory SRF.

Everything else can be made as easy/hard as most of us would care for through the selection of car and tyres that are suited to ability.

Knowing that the experienced enthusiast is more likely to do this that a beginner, it's only natural to make the default difficulty level low.

...but where are all these people an easier game is supposed to appeal to?

They're probably not sufficiently engaged to voice their opinions on the matter?

 

[mistersafeway]

I did mean based on sales there, we all know GTPlanet is a vocal minority. And changing car may help with the races, but it doesn't stop the AI displaying infuriating behaviour and the licence tests being much easier. Honestly, my real problem with the game is the licence tests. They were already dumbed down in GT5, but why did they have to make it so anyone can get all gold up until the S tests? It's bad for longtime fans of the series, serious sim racers and talented gamers through being too easy, and bad for beginners because they get an inflated view of their driving, then come on here and create the dozenth thread about the last S test because it's of more comparable difficulty to the tests in the pre-GT5 games. My problem would be solved with a simple difficulty slider, the AI is, unfortunately, harder to fix.

 

[Samus]

The point is it shouldn't be up to the player to make the game harder or easier, the game should be able to do that itself, to a degree. I shouldn't have to go through a long game of trial and error until I find a car that makes the event challenging. If there is a 500PP race I should be able to enter a 500PP car, race against a field of other 500PP cars and have a competetive race. If it's too easy, turn the difficulty up, and vice versa. I shouldn't have to first guess how far under 500PP to go, then as I say use trial and error until you get it right.

In GT6 you don't know whether you need to be 100PP under the event name, 50PP or right on the nose. There is no indication because it only tells you the competitor cars, not the PP.

As for anything against the clock again, all they need to do is make the gold much harder. The majority shouldn't be beating a time by 2/3 seconds and the aliens by 6+ seconds. The majority should be fighting to beat it by a tenth or two and the aliens 3/4 seconds under.

 

[Vegard]

Honestly, my real problem with the game is the licence tests.

I agree 100%; the requirement for passing the test is bronze, gold prizes should be reserved for fast drivers. However, mandatory SRF is the biggest problem. Without that silly thing, gold would be more challenging.

The point is it shouldn't be up to the player to make the game harder or easier, the game should be able to do that itself, to a degree. I shouldn't have to go through a long game of trial and error until I find a car that makes the event challenging. If there is a 500PP race I should be able to enter a 500PP car, race against a field of other 500PP cars and have a competetive race. If it's too easy, turn the difficulty up, and vice versa. I shouldn't have to first guess how far under 500PP to go, then as I say use trial and error until you get it right.

This was always a big part of the appeal of GranTurismo for me.
A good way to savour the game, explore the may obscure and overlooked cars, repeating races while fine tuning and picking up Cr. along the way and so on.

In GT6 you don't know whether you need to be 100PP under the event name, 50PP or right on the nose. There is no indication because it only tells you the competitor cars, not the PP.

I agree 100%, but that's a seperate problem from the general difficulty level.

As for anything against the clock again, all they need to do is make the gold much harder. The majority shouldn't be beating a time by 2/3 seconds and the aliens by 6+ seconds. The majority should be fighting to beat it by a tenth or two and the aliens 3/4 seconds under.

Again, I agree 100 % with you.

 

[Samus]

Replaying races with different cars is good, of course, but what I meant was for any race where there is a set upper limit you should be able to build cars to that limit and always have a good, close race adjusted via a difficulty slider. Instead you have to turn up with slower cars than the limit if you don't want to obliterate the slower AI cars. That's what I've never understood, and it's a problem in the other game as well. If the race is limited to 500PP every AI car should be at or as close to that as possible. There shouldn't only two 1-3 cars in that range and then the rest getting progressively slower and it certainly shouldn't be like in GT6 where none of the AI are at the limit until the later series.

It'd be like an F1 team turning up with a slower, heavier car on purpose. "We could bring a faster car, but we decided on this one". Sure F1 teams turn up with slower cars, but not on purpose as GT AI persumably do, since they're virtual entities and have no restrictions.

 

[Tails]

The point is it shouldn't be up to the player to make the game harder or easier, the game should be able to do that itself, to a degree. I shouldn't have to go through a long game of trial and error until I find a car that makes the event challenging. If there is a 500PP race I should be able to enter a 500PP car, race against a field of other 500PP cars and have a competetive race. If it's too easy, turn the difficulty up, and vice versa. I shouldn't have to first guess how far under 500PP to go, then as I say use trial and error until you get it right.

This is a complicated solution (to find the proper car that makes the game more or less callenging) when the simplest thing would be to put a difficulty option with a money bonus for harder settings.

As for anything against the clock again, all they need to do is make the gold much harder. The majority shouldn't be beating a time by 2/3 seconds and the aliens by 6+ seconds. The majority should be fighting to beat it by a tenth or two and the aliens 3/4 seconds under.

Personally I don't agree: what would be the point of seasonals events if they would be beatable only by some monters with a 200€ wheel and a play room designed only for this game?
They even give prices for gold (new colours), there's no point if no one can obtain them. The battle is then for the online ranking between monsters, not for the prize.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Personally I don't agree: what would be the point of seasonals events if they would be beatable only by some monters with a 200€ wheel and a play room designed only for this game?

If everyone can obtain gold then gold means nothing. My son played hockey right up until the end of high school, won a lot stuff. All the ribbons for "participant" that you get for just showing up, are in a box in the basement. The stuff he displays are the trophies he and the team won outright, in open competition, in other words, the one's he earned because on that day or in that season he was better.

If everyone can win, there are no winners, only participants. I don't care if everyone gets the prizes, the cars, the paints etc., but "gold" or "platinum" to have any meaning, must be difficult to achieve and not reachable by everyone. Note that GT 1-4 license tests and many races were more difficult than in GT5/6 and some were unbeatable by a large portion of the fanbase, and they sold 10-14 Million copies each.

 

[Enemem]

If no-one can win then it's the same. Only losers. You want a challenge then just play the game with Comfort Hards. See how you like a challenge.

You at least are able to find a level that gives you the challenge that you like.

 

[Tails]

If everyone can obtain gold then gold means nothing. My son played hockey right up until the end of high school, won a lot stuff. All the ribbons for "participant" that you get for just showing up, are in a box in the basement. The stuff he displays are the trophies he and the team won outright, in open competition, in other words, the one's he earned because on that day or in that season he was better.

If everyone can win, there are no winners, only participants. I don't care if everyone gets the prizes, the cars, the paints etc., but "gold" or "platinum" to have any meaning, must be difficult to achieve and not reachable by everyone. Note that GT 1-4 license tests and many races were more difficult than in GT5/6 and some were unbeatable by a large portion of the fanbase, and they sold 10-14 Million copies each.

I'm absolutely NOT sure so I hope I'm not saying some stupid things, but last time I checked for ranking on the FXX Seasonal event, just 30.000 or 40.000 people got the gold. I got it after a week of spitting blood and saying pretty awful things to anyone who entered in the room, and now I hate both Monza and the FXX. But that's another story.
The point is: 40.000 people out of more than 2.000.000 (how much GT6 sold?) is still very few people. And you want it even harder to make no one beat it.
This way a wheel and a room in your house designed to play the game would be the minimum to be competitive. I don't think it makes much sense.

 

[Tails]

Or, now that i have read your post better, the solution could be simple: give the all the prizes for "Gold" (as it is now), and make an even harder "Platinum" time to beat, so anyone who want a challenge would have a target, and the rest could still get the prize "only" by doing a perfect-lap, but not a alien-lap.

 

[Johnnypenso]

If no-one can win then it's the same. Only losers. You want a challenge then just play the game with Comfort Hards. See how you like a challenge.

You at least are able to find a level that gives you the challenge that you like.

Who said anything about no one winning?

I'm absolutely NOT sure so I hope I'm not saying some stupid things, but last time I checked for ranking on the FXX Seasonal event, just 30.000 or 40.000 people got the gold. I got it after a week of spitting blood and saying pretty awful things to anyone who entered in the room, and now I hate both Monza and the FXX. But that's another story.
The point is: 40.000 people out of more than 2.000.000 (how much GT6 sold?) is still very few people. And you want it even harder to make no one beat it.
This way a wheel and a room in your house designed to play the game would be the minimum to be competitive. I don't think it makes much sense.

It's 40,000/number of people who entered which is nowhere near 2,000,000. Even in GT5 which sold 10,000,000+ copies, many TT's had less than 100,000 participants. So if they had only 100,000/10,000,000 how many do you think are entering GT6 TT's with 1/5 the sales?

Or, now that i have read your post better, the solution could be simple: give the all the prizes for "Gold" (as it is now), and make an even harder "Platinum" time to beat, so anyone who want a challenge would have a target, and the rest could still get the prize "only" by doing a perfect-lap, but not a alien-lap.

Sounds like a great idea. If PD then added some kind of accolade so that when you entered a TT or online race, you had a "Platinum" symbol beside your name it would actually mean something. Another one for 20, 50, 100 platinums would encourage deeper participation in all TT's. As it is now, most people just run the event to get the prizes and that's it. Adding a deeper meaning and more prize levels encourages people to play more and that's good for everyone.

 

[bjosim]

good luck... You can't switch SRF on...

I just did it... So maybe I'm special

 

[Fanapryde]

I just did it... So maybe I'm special

I guess you must be...
Just checked again a few minutes ago and SRF is disabled, there is no (normal) way to turn it on...
I also randomly checked the configurations in the rankings: all I could find was SRF OFF.

 

[NOSWaster]

Even though I can only manage silver on the new E-Runner seasonal, I'm sort of happy about that. I can't wrap my head around the physics of that car, so silver was a massive accomplishment for me.

I'm glad the seasonals, at least for me, are starting to actually get challenging. It's refreshing.

 

[MeanElf]

...Honestly, my real problem with the game is the licence tests. They were already dumbed down in GT5, but why did they have to make it so anyone can get all gold up until the S tests?

I actually prefer the consistency of increasing difficulty upto the S License. It's more believable over the amount of random, lower level license tests that absolutely stumped me in the previous GT titles, despite getting the rest at that level with relative ease.

At least this way, it was easy at the beginning, got a bit tougher in the middle and ended on a real challenge with S. I am still three short. I would like more tests though, that is one thing that has been cut back on.

Back on-topi, the TTs are definitely harder that GT5's, at least the past two months have been.