GT7: Between Passion for Cars and the Limits of Competition

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JohnMcLuke
I’ve noticed a constant in my GT7 gaming experience. Physically, I love it; I think it’s the game that best represents the real physics of cars on PlayStation. Both in terms of the physics and the sheer variety of cars it offers, meaning totally different vehicles with similar balance (SUVs, sports cars, race cars of different levels, go-karts, classic cars, etc.). Historically, when you look at how they treat the automotive world and the dedication they put into it, I could talk about their commitment to adding as many different car niches as possible (Le Mans, F1, rally, common cars, supercars, tuning cars, etc.), trying to get as many people as possible passionate about the game and what it offers. Or I could talk about the dedication they show even outside of the game, like with the competitive side.

The constant is more emotional than related to the game itself, maybe it’s personal, but let me explain.
I’m a racing, competition, and motorsport enthusiast. I love all types of racing involving cars. In my opinion, Gran Turismo is dedicating way more space to race cars in the Gr3 and Gr4 categories. I’m not saying that’s wrong; on the contrary, it’s showing results and has gotten me into it, despite my initial skepticism. But I think it’s unfair that certain cars can’t really be used in the right way.

For example, I love the Toyota GT-One. I first discovered it in GT2, and ever since, it’s meant more to me than other cars. The GT-One was the reason I bought the PS5, obviously with GT7. But only now do I realize my disappointment... I’ve never been able to use it against other players online, or against other GT2 cars of the same era, or at least only 1-2 times in the past 2 years. Sure, you can use it against the 16’ cars, you can do that, but it’s clearly inferior, which is fair, but what's the fun in that? I love the Delta Rally, but if I can’t face other players using rally cars, what’s the point?
I disagree with those who want more Gr3 and Gr4 cars, but in the end, those are the only categories actually used in the competitive mode. Again, I wouldn’t personally like them, but at least they’d be cars you could use and face other players with.

Do you know why, for example, there’s no real Drift community in Gran Turismo?
Because players can’t face each other in a structured way like in the competitive mode. Drift can never really excite me if there’s nothing in the game to make me experience it in a meaningful way... why should I bother learning to drift (?), when I can just do qualifying laps with a Genesis Gr3 (which is terrible) because I know it’ll give me the chance to be part of a competitive race in the daily events. Or why should I bother building a perfect 600pp car if I’ll never really get to test it seriously against other players online... and not in some pre-set offline event that’s useless and has nothing to do with a real race.
The game essentially forces players to practice only with Gr3 and Gr4 cars, which obviously brings a lot of attention to those types of cars. But it doesn’t make sense to have just these two categories in the competitive modes — it’s illogical, even though they’re very different.

I’ve noticed in the online Time Trials that often, not always, but often, common cars not only post better times on the leaderboards, but also have players who land on the podium... and that’s obvious, but why does this vast portion of players who feel more comfortable (or simply enjoy) driving “common” cars not have a competitive mode of their own? It would be simple: create a competitive branch with 3 races (500pp, 600pp, 700pp) and relative values. Sure, there could be stronger cars than others and balance issues, but you could create subcategories, so the number of cars you could use and test would increase.
I’ve often heard about server issues, so it might be “unmanageable” to control, and there would still be imbalances, but there’s already that issue.
Right now, I think they want to focus on Gr3 and Gr4 competitive modes because it's obviously going well. Honestly, I don’t think they care about drift players, tuning enthusiasts, rally fans, or even historical Le Mans cars... these categories are basically abandoned, used offline with those boring races where you start last and unless you have a significantly stronger car, you can’t win. It’s not competition; it’s a time trial with other cars, sometimes ridiculous. Most cars aren’t even used, not even as background — the more I love them, the more they’re useless.

I want to understand if there are other people like me, unsure of what to do in GT7, as if there’s everything and yet nothing. What do you think?
 
Join a league with similar minded people or create your own.

You'll be able to propose cars you love, with the tune you want and get other people to race with you.


The league I am in : (but we are at full capacity at the moment)

We use a wide variety of combos, you'll find the list on the 3rd post. Every member can come up with a combo.
 
Yeah GT7 unfortunately completely fumbled its tuning aspect. The return of the PP system and addition of engine swaps makes you think they were really aiming to make 7 a tuner's paradise, and the daily races in the early weeks lived up to that promise, but as soon as people figured out you could detune a Tomahawk to 600PP that all flew out the window.

Ten PP updates, physics changes and leaderboard wipes later, and you'd hardly think this game was made for tuners at all. Meanwhile Sport has been the same Gr.3/Gr.4 garbage for 99% of the game's life. And you can still get a 1200HP Hiace down to 600PP...
 
The main reason that single player doesn't keep me engaged (and inevitably I end up returning to Sport Mode again and again) is the general lack of benchmarking.

My motivation for driving these virtual cars (and as many as possible) is to see how far I can push the limits. Unfortunately, I lack the necessary skill and knowledge to determine the limit by myself, so I require the community aspect in order to help with that. Once I have a target pace, i can start to see if my manual dexterity and speed of thought will enable me to reach it. We have this with Daily Races and Time Trials. In the case of the latter, the very fastest players in the world have their skills on display for anyone to attempt to replicate.

Circuit Experience, and to a lesser extent the Licence tests and Missions do provide a semblance, but they are "one-and-done" (yes, I am a philistine who requires some in-game progress too, so repeat attempts for no extra reward isn't my cup of tea). Make them repeatable!

This is why I'm an advocate for mixing up at least one Daily Race as the week progresses. Why not put us in a slightly more powerful car around the circuit we've practiced for hours already? Why not switch up the circuit, and keep our general handling knowledge in the machinery we're using and transfer it to another venue?

To me, these would be small changes with a huge impact.

Let's all keep our peepers open when Spec III arrives....
 
@ShonnDaylee
The only reaction I usually get to half of my posts is a doubtful emoji.. But you rarely explain what your doubts actually are. I’m genuinely curious to hear from people who see things differently from me, yet if I don’t get the chance to talk with other community members, it’s hard to build constructive conversations.

I believe what I wrote is factual, not just an opinion, and I didn’t dismiss opposing ideas, in fact, I gave them value. I love Gran Turismo, but the statistics are clear: most people who play have never even opened Sport Mode. Apparently, the majority of GT players don’t want to be heard, don’t want to listen, and don’t want to discuss the immediate future. Out of fear? Fear of falling into pointless speculation? I don’t know.
I’m not here to complain, I’m here to understand, because I believe GT could represent all kinds of passion, not just one.

Again, all the respect that GT is currently focused on Sport Mode, but out of those 100 million copies sold, how many are actually active Sport Mode players? It’s simple statistics, and the question is genuine.
 
The only reaction I usually get to half of my posts is a doubtful emoji.. But you rarely explain what your doubts actually are. I’m genuinely curious to hear from people who see things differently from me, yet if I don’t get the chance to talk with other community members, it’s hard to build constructive conversations.

I believe what I wrote is factual, not just an opinion, and I didn’t dismiss opposing ideas, in fact, I gave them value. I love Gran Turismo, but the statistics are clear: most people who play have never even opened Sport Mode. Apparently, the majority of GT players don’t want to be heard, don’t want to listen, and don’t want to discuss the immediate future. Out of fear? Fear of falling into pointless speculation? I don’t know.
I’m not here to complain, I’m here to understand, because I believe GT could represent all kinds of passion, not just one.

Again, all the respect that GT is currently focused on Sport Mode, but out of those 100 million copies sold, how many are actually active Sport Mode players? It’s simple statistics, and the question is genuine.
There are a number of issues here. A lot of what you post IS opinion (stating things as FACT is bold to say the least). Most of which are topics that have been discussed at length in already available threads (which you should just add to, instead of starting another new thread). You have written 53 times in this forum, and the majority of those is in threads that YOU started. You need to utilize the search function more effectively in my opinion. There is no need to start quite so many new threads. This thread, for example, contains a few different subjects that could have been broken up and added to available threads instead of one big exposition dump. Furthermore, I have elaborated on my responses to your posts MANY times, so I'm not sure where you're getting this:

"The only reaction I usually get to half of my posts is a doubtful emoji.. But you rarely explain what your doubts actually are."
This simply isn't true.

To touch on some of the points you've made in this thread:

I’m a racing, competition, and motorsport enthusiast. I love all types of racing involving cars. In my opinion, Gran Turismo is dedicating way more space to race cars in the Gr3 and Gr4 categories. I’m not saying that’s wrong; on the contrary, it’s showing results and has gotten me into it, despite my initial skepticism. But I think it’s unfair that certain cars can’t really be used in the right way.
This is only true in Sport Mode (and it wasn't always this way). In Single player the road cars get more than enough use. In Sport mode there used to be more road car specific races, but likely due to engagement (or lack thereof) those events have been mostly left behind as the majority of Sport Mode players prefer race cars (GR.3/GR.4 mostly), and PD over time have adjusted the races to suit that preference (again, based on player engagement). This is the case in a lot of online racing games. That's just what the online racing community generally seems to want. Love it or hate it.

One of the biggest issues that few people talk about is how the majority of players are not posting their opinions openly online. A lot of people don't feel comfortable doing that. So, it's a vocal minority that tends to saturate the online space. You are correct in that the vast majority of players (around 86% last time I checked) do not utilize Sport Mode, and yet the online space would almost have you thinking they are the majority because they are more active in online discussions. If you think about it, it makes perfect sense. If you are active in online gaming, you are far more likely to be active in online discussions. It's par for the course.

Do you know why, for example, there’s no real Drift community in Gran Turismo?
This is a complicated topic. For one, I have never agreed with how the game (since GT5) scores drifting. So, utilizing GT's system to expand the drift mode doesn't sit well with me. Drifting is all about aesthetics. It's ice skating with cars. The aesthetics of which can be a bit subjective. This is why drifting tends to be scored (IRL) in a similar fashion to ice skating. Multiple judges give scores based on a small list of requirements (angle, track position, line, clipping points, etc... etc...), and then those scores are added together to come up with a total score (as with a lot of Olympic events). GTP used to have drift competitions (and a Drift sub-forum) that was judged by a group of pre-selected members. I used to take part in these quite often in the GT3/GT4 days. However, it seems like the drift sub-forums were getting to be too much of a hassle. I used to run the drift forums in the GT3/GT4 days (here at GTP) when I was a moderator here, and can attest to the difficulty in policing said forum. It was almost a full time job. All this being said, there are online spaces (websites/forums) that do cater to GT7 drifting/competitions. It's just a matter of finding them. As for me, I've always found the time trial mode more than enough for drifting. Personally, I don't need a number to tell me if my drift was successful or not. Your milage may vary. If you want to drift against real people and potentially take part in competitions there are spaces for that in the "Multiplayer" mode. If you just want to enjoy taking a car to the limits of adhesion the time trial mode is where it's at. That's about all we can expect right now. For better or for worse.

Honestly, I don’t think they care about drift players, tuning enthusiasts, rally fans, or even historical Le Mans cars...
Now you're just being ridiculous, and pouting. There is a drift mode in the game, and even parts to help facilitate drifting (obviously they care). The game focusses heavily on tuning vehicles and gives us many ways to do this. There are rally tracks/events/cars in the game (but they don't care? Wut?), and last but certainly not least... This game has a lot of historic Le Mans cars as well as two layouts of La Sarthe. Would I like more of all these things? Of course I do, but to say PD don't care about these things is just shortsighted.
 
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I don’t expect everyone to agree.. But I do expect people to think.

There are a number of issues here. A lot of what you post IS opinion (stating things as FACT is bold to say the least). Most of which are topics that have been discussed at length in already available threads (which you should just add to, instead of starting another new thread). You have written 53 times in this forum, and the majority of those is in threads that YOU started. You need to utilize the search function more effectively in my opinion. There is no need to start quite so many new threads. This thread, for example, contains a few different subjects that could have been broken up and added to available threads instead of one big exposition dump

First of all, I use the forum however I prefer, within the limits of the existing rules. If I find a discussion that interests me, I share my opinion — and the threads I create obviously cover multiple topics, because I want a response that reflects the complexity of those topics combined. I created these threads because I want to discuss and hear sincere opinions on the full picture I present; I’m not interested in small replies taken from some other thread that maybe talks about Drift in single player — that’s not the point.


This is only true in Sport Mode (and it wasn't always this way). In Single player the road cars get more than enough use. In Sport mode there used to be more road car specific races, but likely due to engagement (or lack thereof) those events have been mostly left behind as the majority of Sport Mode players prefer race cars (GR.3/GR.4 mostly), and PD over time have adjusted the races to suit that preference (again, based on player engagement). This is the case in a lot of online racing games. That's just what the online racing community generally seems to want. Love it or hate it.

Of course those events were left behind, they’re terrible. In online races I’ve never once joined those events because they’re awful; I became an A-ranked player only using Gr3/4 cars. If, instead of those boring one-make events, they had added an online event featuring the F40, Diablo, etc., do you really think the outcome would’ve been the same? No — and to confirm it, you just have to check the engagement those races got the times that PD put them in the Daily Event on YouTube, GTPlanet, everywhere. It’s simple: online players are pushed toward those events because they’re much better designed — there’s no real choice.


The game focusses heavily on tuning vehicles and gives us many ways to do this. There are rally tracks/events/cars in the game (but they don't care? Wut?), and last but certainly not least... This game has a lot of historic Le Mans cars as well as two layouts of La Sarthe. Would I like more of all these things? Of course I do, but to say PD don't care about these things is just shortsighted.

The game “focuses on tuning”? So the game focuses on making me race from last place where, unless I’m 30 seconds faster than the AI, I get screwed? In every event, by the way, including the historic Le Mans races, which are so unbalanced they’re boring — not to mention the Neo-Classic events, because honestly, that’s just laughable.

Maybe you didn’t quite get it. I’m talking about online, because with the base AI, there’s no fun. And that’s not just me saying it, everyone knows it. (Not even talking about Sophy, which isn’t in single player anyway, but let’s leave that aside.)
When I say they “don’t care” about online, I’m not insulting anyone, I’m stating a fact. It’s objective that, speaking about online, tuning is useless unless you’re in some unbalanced, disorganized custom lobby or part of a small player-run community — PD themselves don’t do anything.
Once in a while they have a flash of brilliance and release exciting Sport Mode races, which then last a week and disappear — maybe they come back eight months later. I don’t want more boring “chase the new update car” events. Do you? You like that? At this point, I think you probably do.

In Single player the road cars get more than enough use
used offline with those boring races where you start last and unless you have a significantly stronger car, you can’t win. It’s not competition

Evidently, you like single player. I’m Not.

I've always found the time trial mode more than enough for drifting.

“More than enough”? You mean nothing? As for drifting, we have eight drift trials, and you’re satisfied? After all your talk about drift calculation and your moderator career? What I want is to race against other people online, in an organized way — a simple track where I can challenge players of a similar level. Who cares about spinning around cones in the same spot? Then you mention “Multiplayer,” but aside from a serious Japanese community, there’s nothing (and that’s player-made anyway). It’s normal, because it’s not organized. The “Multiplayer” mode just puts players together on a track, but there’s no real competition, and GT just watches. I’m not saying this to be mean, it’s just clear as day.

There is a drift mode in the game, and even parts to help facilitate drifting (obviously they care).

I hope you’re an influential member of Polyphony, because calling a couple of drift tracks at Tsukuba a “mode” is ridiculous.
“Obviously they care” — that’s almost funny. With all due respect to them, I’m not saying anything crazy: it’s obvious that since the game launched, they haven’t even thought about doing something meaningful with it. Don’t worry, you don’t need to get angry, they know it too.

You need to utilize the search function more effectively in my opinion.

I think you should learn to read better before commenting and arguing with yourself, because you didn’t answer the thread. You talked about offline, which I never asked about, and you mentioned online “races” made by random players — not PD, whom you defend without any logical reason.

unsure of what to do in GT7, as if there’s everything and yet nothing.
That's about all we can expect right now.

I’m asking for opinions, and you’re giving me conclusions? Who are you, Kaz in disguise?
I didn’t hear any opinions from you, only banal and obvious statements that I had already ruled out and addressed in the main post. Thanks for your reply, which completely missed the point; maybe next time try actually responding to what I wrote.
 
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