GTC cars in GT3 mod teaser/showcase.

  • Thread starter Miskaroni
  • 9 comments
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52
Finland
Finland
Hello!

Sort of recently, I managed to port all Gran Turismo Concept cars into Gran Turismo 3. I've cut down the useless duplicate cars, and regional cars, and only left the needed cars there (to cut down on RAM usage), but it has all the important ones!
At this point yet, I am not fully sure how many of the new cars I can utilize for GT Mode (I'm limited currently to only adding them as prize cars, not into dealerships), but all cars will be featured on Arcade mode, unless any surprising issues arise.

But, here are some images: (Notice the updated car names!)
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NISMO 350Z RAZO Version
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VW Golf GTI
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Mini Cooper-S Rally Car
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VW Polo GTI
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Audi RS4
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Audi TT-R DTM
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In case you were left craving for more, I did release 2 teaser videos showing GTC cars & other modded things as well.

The tooling used to make these modifications to the game possible, are made by pez2k.

 
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Sort of recently, I managed to port all Gran Turismo Concept cars into Gran Turismo 3.

To give credit where credit seems to be due, what you actually did was download the source code for a tool I've not yet finished or released, then copied and pasted some files into it.

And even on GT Mode, they cannot yet be 100% supported (Not possible to give cars Turbo Kit/NA-Tune parts yet.)

...Because I've not yet fully implemented that part of the tool. It's actually completely possible to add those parts, if you understand the file format and aren't just using a tool you downloaded.
 
52
Finland
Finland
To give credit where credit seems to be due, what you actually did was download the source code for a tool I've not yet finished or released, then copied and pasted some files into it.



...Because I've not yet fully implemented that part of the tool. It's actually completely possible to add those parts, if you understand the file format and aren't just using a tool you downloaded.

Well, I've said it here before that I use your tools, and you've told me that you don't really care about the credit, so I'm not really sure why it's a problem all of a sudden, although I frankly just forgot it out of the post, so I'll add it there now.
It sounds like you don't really enjoy me using your tool though, which I don't understand. It is also in the internet for anyone to download so not sure what the problem there is.

But yeah, there's the thing, I don't understand the file format and have not put any time into it, and because I'm not a programmer, instead just a normal bloke who enjoys messing about with GT3.
-EDIT
I've figured out the format for NA-Tune and Turbokit parts.
 
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Well, I've said it here before that I use your tools, and you've told me that you don't really care about the credit, so I'm not really sure why it's a problem all of a sudden, although I frankly just forgot it out of the post, so I'll add it there now.
It sounds like you don't really enjoy me using your tool though, which I don't understand. It is also in the internet for anyone to download so not sure what the problem there is.

There's a difference between making some other mod that happens to use a VOL tool to repack, versus making a thread to show off that you've ported GTC cars where most of the work involved was actually me figuring out the file formats involved and starting to write a tool to do so.

I'm not keen on you using the tool no, because as I've mentioned before it's not finished and not released. My tools repo is public because it makes it easier to share with other developers how GT file formats work, such as when commongear was working on his own GT2 car model tool. It's not there for people to pull bits of unfinished code, ask me how to use it, ask me questions about the parts I've not finished yet, ask me about developing other tools, make videos about it, and so on. I don't want to sound harsh, but if there isn't a release with a binary attached then it's not intended for anyone to use yet.
 
52
Finland
Finland
There's a difference between making some other mod that happens to use a VOL tool to repack, versus making a thread to show off that you've ported GTC cars where most of the work involved was actually me figuring out the file formats involved and starting to write a tool to do so.

I'm not keen on you using the tool no, because as I've mentioned before it's not finished and not released. My tools repo is public because it makes it easier to share with other developers how GT file formats work, such as when commongear was working on his own GT2 car model tool. It's not there for people to pull bits of unfinished code, ask me how to use it, ask me questions about the parts I've not finished yet, ask me about developing other tools, make videos about it, and so on. I don't want to sound harsh, but if there isn't a release with a binary attached then it's not intended for anyone to use yet.

Well, to me, with that logic, it just sounds like everyone making mods with your tools should be kissing the floor that you stand on. Of course you did the initial research & work for the tool, don't get mad about it if someone else makes something with it though. Making something with a tool someone else made isn't taking away credit from the tool creator, instead it's just contributing to the tools awesomeness. That tool actually produced something.

Why exactly does it matter to you so much that the tooling is unfinished? What difference does it make to you? I'm the one who actually will suffer from it, as likely, when the tooling gets updated, all my old work becomes obsolete. I'm sure we'd be having this same conversation even if the tool wasn't unfinished. I also don't want to just sit around doing nothing, you'd think a GT3 developer would be happy that someone else has interest in it & is doing research and work towards improving the game. If the tooling is enough finished to be able to make reasonable work with, I'll use it even in its unfinished state. Even if that work isn't going to find it's way directly into a mod, at least it helps me understand the game more.
If you don't like getting asked things by people, then politely tell them it. No point making sarcastic replies about it to those people, that's just childish.
As a developer who releases stuff, you're undoubtedly going to get a lot of questions from your work anyways, so I really don't understand the problem with getting questions.
If you're really like this, I'll just keep all my future research & data to myself. No point sharing it, especially when I've tried to aid your GT3 research work, while you've essentially never answered me about it or acknowledged it. And for it, as a thanks I get this.

If you don't like people making stuff with your tools (incomplete or not), and asking questions about your work, then
A) Don't release your tools, and keep to yourself.
B) Go as you have, but don't act childish about it. As a developer you will get questions & feedback. Deal with it. Sounds harsh, but it's the reality.
 
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1,338
United Kingdom
Sunderland
You've missed, or willingly ignored, the most vital parts of pez's posts:
"My tools repo is public because it makes it easier to share with other developers how GT file formats work, such as when commongear was working on his own GT2 car model tool"
"if there isn't a release with a binary attached then it's not intended for anyone to use yet"

It's abundantly clear that what pez has provided (and by no means was he ever required to do so) is to aid developers, the people who help make this stuff possible in the first place, in the name of making all research public rather than have one person know everything. If they were intended to be so widely used and by non-developers then he would've made documentation or at least a more public post announcing them.

Why exactly does it matter to you so much that the tooling is unfinished?
Because "unfinished" generally goes hand-in-hand with "unsupported, use at your own risk".

If the tooling is enough finished to be able to make reasonable work with, I'll use it even in its unfinished state.
Because it being in its unfinished state means you probably shouldn't bug the developer about issues with it.

If you don't like getting asked things by people, then politely tell them it.
Which is exactly what he did in the first reply to this thread, but somehow you took offence to that.

As a developer who releases stuff, you're undoubtedly going to get a lot of questions from your work anyways, so I really don't understand the problem with getting questions.
Not every developer wants questions, sometimes people will just put tools out there so they're not left to die on an old hard drive forever.

A) Don't release your tools, and keep to yourself.
People keeping tools to themselves is exactly what kills the modding scenes for a game. Pez didn't need to release the tools, but he did. Be a bit more grateful.

B) Go as you have, but don't act childish about it.
There's nothing childish about politely telling someone to stop asking so many questions, if you don't want to be asked questions.

As a developer you will get questions & feedback. Deal with it. Sounds harsh, but it's the reality.
As an end user of unsupported software you will have issues and bugs. Deal with it.
 
52
Finland
Finland
You've missed, or willingly ignored, the most vital parts of pez's posts:
"My tools repo is public because it makes it easier to share with other developers how GT file formats work, such as when commongear was working on his own GT2 car model tool"
"if there isn't a release with a binary attached then it's not intended for anyone to use yet"

It's abundantly clear that what pez has provided (and by no means was he ever required to do so) is to aid developers, the people who help make this stuff possible in the first place, in the name of making all research public rather than have one person know everything. If they were intended to be so widely used and by non-developers then he would've made documentation or at least a more public post announcing them.


Because "unfinished" generally goes hand-in-hand with "unsupported, use at your own risk".


Because it being in its unfinished state means you probably shouldn't bug the developer about issues with it.


Which is exactly what he did in the first reply to this thread, but somehow you took offence to that.


Not every developer wants questions, sometimes people will just put tools out there so they're not left to die on an old hard drive forever.


People keeping tools to themselves is exactly what kills the modding scenes for a game. Pez didn't need to release the tools, but he did. Be a bit more grateful.


There's nothing childish about politely telling someone to stop asking so many questions, if you don't want to be asked questions.


As an end user of unsupported software you will have issues and bugs. Deal with it.

"Because "unfinished" generally goes hand-in-hand with "unsupported, use at your own risk"

Which is exactly what I've done, yet it's a problem to Pez.

"Because it being in its unfinished state means you probably shouldn't bug the developer about issues with it."

I haven't bugged him about anything. Initially I had a couple of questions about the tool, but after that I've only provided data to him regarding game fixes. Mistake by me, as he clearly doesn't appreciate someone else doing research, so I'll keep all my research to myself.

"Which is exactly what he did in the first reply to this thread, but somehow you took offence to that."

By that I meant how he's replied sarcastically and passive-aggressively to me for months in Discord, and of course here as well.

"Not every developer wants questions, sometimes people will just put tools out there so they're not left to die on an old hard drive forever."

Maybe then he should tell people that, instead of acting how he did for months, not saying anything?

"People keeping tools to themselves is exactly what kills the modding scenes for a game. Pez didn't need to release the tools, but he did. Be a bit more grateful."

Which is exactly weird, as he takes offence to me modding with his unfinished tool. Why complain about it? I am grateful for it obviously, but nearly all of that gratitude gets thrown out the window when he complains about someone using it.

"There's nothing childish about politely telling someone to stop asking so many questions, if you don't want to be asked questions."

Again, I was referring to the sarcastic and passive-aggressive attitude he's had before, and here as well.

"As an end user of unsupported software you will have issues and bugs. Deal with it."

Correct, and I'm fine with it; Though I've not had issues and bugs with it. It's just that Pez has a problem with me using it all of a sudden. Maybe he doesn't like that someone else is having decent progress modding the game data, it's the only thing I can think of.
If his only problem was the lack of credit in the post initially, then why does he find the need to belittle my work?

Posted from mobile so didn't include quotes.
 
Well, to me, with that logic, it just sounds like everyone making mods with your tools should be kissing the floor that you stand on. Of course you did the initial research & work for the tool, don't get mad about it if someone else makes something with it though.

If you can't see why it's a bit insulting when someone grabs the code for an unreleased tool, drops a couple of files into it, then makes videos and forum posts boasting about what they've accomplished, then I'm not sure there's any other way I can explain it.

Your other mods are based on your own complex research and hard work, or on tools released to the public, which is why I have no problem whatsoever with them.

Why exactly does it matter to you so much that the tooling is unfinished? ... I'm sure we'd be having this same conversation even if the tool wasn't unfinished.

It matters to me because any feedback from using it is not necessarily going to be relevant, because no part of it is necessarily going to work as intended, and it implicitly applies pressure to me to work more on it. What matters more than it being unfinished is that it's unreleased - I'm simply not comfortable with it being used yet. The hundreds of hours of work I've put into my code presumably don't even warrant the minor consideration to respect that. I've tried to be polite and dissuade you from messing about with it rather than being rude, but clearly it doesn't work, sorry.

The only reason that the code for this tool is visible in a public repo is because I was making all of my other research code visible for other tool authors, and this happened to be in there too. Ii wasn't exactly an open offer for people to scour the repo to see what they could pull out to compile and use as-is. If someone got hold of part of your high-details wheel mod and starting making videos about it without mentioning your name, I assume you'd be a bit peeved too.

As a developer who releases stuff, you're undoubtedly going to get a lot of questions from your work anyways, so I really don't understand the problem with getting questions.

...Except, as above, the whole point is that I haven't released this tool.

If you're really like this, I'll just keep all my future research & data to myself. No point sharing it, especially when I've tried to aid your GT3 research work, while you've essentially never answered me about it or acknowledged it. And for it, as a thanks I get this.

I'm not actively doing any GT3 research work, so the best I can do when you show me what you've been doing is give you comments like 'thanks' and 'nice work', as I've tried to do. If I've insulted you by not being enthusiastic enough then I apologise. If you don't want to contribute to the community then that's your right to do so.

Don't release your tools, and keep to yourself.

Again, the point to make is that I haven't released this one. I'm quite happy for tools to be used, just give me the chance to finish working on them first.



edit: other stuff has been posted while I was typing:

By that I meant how he's replied sarcastically and passive-aggressively to me for months in Discord, and of course here as well.

Well I apologise again if you feel I've been sarcastic towards you on Discord - I didn't realise you were interpreting my messages that way. I don't always have a lot of time to reply to Discord messages so I can sometimes be quite terse with my responses.

If his only problem was the lack of credit in the post initially, then why does he find the need to belittle my work?

I don't think I've belittled your work anywhere? My first reply in this thread is in response to my research / tooling work being (what appeared to me to be deliberately) completely unmentioned, pointing out that porting over GTC cars actually isn't that much work, and noting that the bit you mention being unable to do is a telltale that's it's done with my unfinished code. You've done plenty of interesting research in other areas of the game.
 
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52
Finland
Finland
If you can't see why it's a bit insulting when someone grabs the code for an unreleased tool, drops a couple of files into it, then makes videos and forum posts boasting about what they've accomplished, then I'm not sure there's any other way I can explain it.

Your other mods are based on your own complex research and hard work, or on tools released to the public, which is why I have no problem whatsoever with them.



It matters to me because any feedback from using it is not necessarily going to be relevant, because no part of it is necessarily going to work as intended, and it implicitly applies pressure to me to work more on it. What matters more than it being unfinished is that it's unreleased - I'm simply not comfortable with it being used yet. The hundreds of hours of work I've put into my code presumably don't even warrant the minor consideration to respect that. I've tried to be polite and dissuade you from messing about with it rather than being rude, but clearly it doesn't work, sorry.

The only reason that the code for this tool is visible in a public repo is because I was making all of my other research code visible for other tool authors, and this happened to be in there too. Ii wasn't exactly an open offer for people to scour the repo to see what they could pull out to compile and use as-is. If someone got hold of part of your high-details wheel mod and starting making videos about it without mentioning your name, I assume you'd be a bit peeved too.



...Except, as above, the whole point is that I haven't released this tool.



I'm not actively doing any GT3 research work, so the best I can do when you show me what you've been doing is give you comments like 'thanks' and 'nice work', as I've tried to do. If I've insulted you by not being enthusiastic enough then I apologise. If you don't want to contribute to the community then that's your right to do so.



Again, the point to make is that I haven't released this one. I'm quite happy for tools to be used, just give me the chance to finish working on them first.



edit: other stuff has been posted while I was typing:



Well I apologise again if you feel I've been sarcastic towards you on Discord - I didn't realise you were interpreting my messages that way. I don't always have a lot of time to reply to Discord messages so I can sometimes be quite terse with my responses.



I don't think I've belittled your work anywhere? My first reply in this thread is in response to my research / tooling work being (what appeared to me to be deliberately) completely unmentioned, pointing out that porting over GTC cars actually isn't that much work, and noting that the bit you mention being unable to do is a telltale that's it's done with my unfinished code. You've done plenty of interesting research in other areas of the game.

I don't intend to be boasting. All I've said is I managed to port GTC cars in, which for I did many failed attempts before getting it right. I even abandoned trying it for 1-2 weeks because I couldn't figure it out initially and was pissed off because of it. So getting it right of course made me darn happy, so I wanted to share it via Youtube. It's not me boasting, it's just me being happy.
And to say that I've dropped just a couple files was a bit insulting, considering I've gone through every single car file, updated their names, added missing car values, rebalanced car values, removed region flags, updated/removed special tags, updated most manufacturer names, fixed all/most colour name typos, fixed incorrect information/data on a few cars, added missing parts to cars that needed them, fixed all manufacturer/tuner IDs, updated engine sound files, updated all special colour car engine data/special MX5 engine data, and nearly all of that I had to do twice when I figured out the GTC car port, and had to do all that for the new cars as well. It wasn't about just "drag & drop and job done", as you might understand.
And yes, I made teaser videos to show people that what GT3 content can now be done. It's not about me, it's about what we have accomplished; All of the people working on GT3, including a couple friends and you. This is exactly the reason why I've offered you my own research & mods for your GT3 project; We can all have our own projects, but still share & improve the game overall, for everyone.

I don't mean to pressure you. I know you're busy with life and work, and have told you that as well. So I hope you understand that.
I'm not a mind reader, I don't know when you're working on GT stuff, that's why I've shared info on it. It's not to pressure you, it's just that I hope it can be of use at some point; not right this second.
I understand that you may not be comfortable with the use of the tool, but my point is this; It works, and hasn't even once yet caused an issue. And even all the labeled data that I've seen so far is correct. So I hope you can, you know, uhh, cope with it. The tool in it's current state already can do so much, so I'd hate to not put it to use.
And yes, I understand why your repo is public now, I understood it before when you explained it, if I didn't say that already.

And sorry about not including your name in the videos; My mindset was that it was only a short teaser, not a full-on mod video, so credits were the last thing on my mind, especially when I was still buzzing with happiness. I will fix that right now. But you could've asked for it before, I have no ill-intent, so just asking goes a long way. None of the database-related modifications would be possible without your contributions, so you really deserve the credit for it. Seriously sorry for forgetting crediting you.

And about the questioning, I meant that you've published several tools & GT2+, so you're probably bombarded with questions about them. I know the tool is unfinished that we're talking about.

And yeah, I always assumed your reactions were genuine, but when you came here the way you did, I put 2 and 2 together in my mind and you might understand why I thought what I did.

And yeah, it seemed to me that you belittled my work a bit, but I understand now why you said what you did. Porting the cars itself isn't a lot of work, yeah, but polishing up the data related to the cars is a bit more work, and that's where most of my attention has been.

Hope that clears it up. I apologize for my attitude & forgetting the credits. No hard feelings, I hope. Whenever you're working on GT stuff, you can ask me what I've been up to recently. Some of my research can probably be useful for everyone, like I recently fixed the lack of "idle" rear lights on eve/night model of the GTC CLK 55 AMG.
PS. I asked about the wheel tool thing, just so that I've eliminated all other possibilities about it; I'd hate to have not asked, being halfway through it all, and then suddenly a tool for it could've suddenly popped out. That would've popped a vein in my head.
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And to say that I've dropped just a couple files was a bit insulting, considering I've gone through every single car file, updated their names, added missing car values, rebalanced car values, removed region flags, updated/removed special tags, updated most manufacturer names, fixed all/most colour name typos, fixed incorrect information/data on a few cars, added missing parts to cars that needed them, fixed all manufacturer/tuner IDs, updated engine sound files, updated all special colour car engine data/special MX5 engine data, and nearly all of that I had to do twice when I figured out the GTC car port, and had to do all that for the new cars as well.
...
Hope that clears it up. I apologize for my attitude & forgetting the credits. No hard feelings, I hope.

Yeah, fair enough, that's quite a bit more work than the first post originally seemed to suggest. No hard feelings indeed, misunderstandings happen, and I'm glad we could straighten things out.