High Speed Oversteer - How do you like to deal with it?

[KAMKA-Z]

Several of my cars have issues with high speed oversteer, especially under acceleration through high speed bends. My perfect car has "Transitional Understeer-Oversteer", that is, a slight push under acceleration and is slightly loose on deceleration. I tend to make changes with stabilizer bars and the diff, but often that just messes up the low speed handling and only marginally cures the original handling problem. My current "Problem Child" is the NSX Type R for the professional MR races. (I've adopted Parnelli's creedo of running cars without aerodynamic aids against cars without aerodynamic aids, otherwise I'd just go use the Raybrig NSX) I've used some of the settings from the GTVault but they don't do much for me. Many are good for short spurts with soft tires or don't take tire wear into consideration. I haven't messed with toe and camber much because they only seem to increase tire wear. I'm looking for tuning hints for longer runs on harder compound tires.

 

[Parnelli Bone]

SInce you're not using downforce, you'll need to rely soley on suspension, brakes, tires, and limited-slip Let me just say i haven't done the professional MR races yet, i know they're gonna be crazy since the AMateurs were pretty intense.

1. Make the rear lower than the front...i usually go 10 to 15mm lower in the back. This helps fishtaily cars hunker back under acceleration; and when braking, the rear won't hunch up quite so much.

2. keep rear rebound dampers low...2 or 3 and that's it. Rebound dampers tend to "throw weight", pitching it back and forth, and if you';ve got a super-high rebound in the back, the car is gonna wanna throw alot of it forwards, leaving the back to skid around.

3. Also, i like keeping the front bound dampers slightly higher than the rear if i'm trying to get rid of high-speed oversteer. Under acceleration, your car's front will lift a bit more (causing some understeer here and there) but at least the rear will stay put.

4. I rarely mismatch tires nowadays (used to do it all the time in gT2 & 3!) but when i have to, i'll put softer tires in the rear. Again, this induces more understeer, but (hopefully) understeer will become more prominent anyways, this will "limit" your speed thru corners a bit, but also keep you from hammering the throttle till it's time!

5. Use stabilizers and the limited slip to put the finishing touches on your handling. In the Amateur MRs, i added +.10 positive front toe, too. I did these races in an NSX, but also attempted them in a Toyota MR-S, too...but it could barely keep up.

Let me know if any of this helps!

 

[Fantaman]

My trick is:
The rear suspension harder then in the front.
I don't suffer from high speed oversteer,
I don't know if this is helping or not just try and we'll see

BTW I got bored of grip racing so now i drift and don't race anymore well a little bit, So I want oversteer.

 

[Duke]

I haven't messed with toe and camber much because they only seem to increase tire wear. I'm looking for tuning hints for longer runs on harder compound tires.

I've never encountered tire wear problems with camber at all. I'd try increasing the rear camber by a degree over the stock settings. This should help plant the outside rear tire and keep the rear in line.

The other thing to try is a small amount of rear toe in. That should also help stabilize the back end, particularly during acceleration.

In the pro MR I ran a lightly modified Zonda C12S.

 

[Parnelli Bone]

My trick is:
The rear suspension harder then in the front.
I don't suffer from high speed oversteer,
I don't know if this is helping or not just try and we'll see

BTW I got bored of grip racing so now i drift and don't race anymore well a little bit, So I want oversteer.

Trust me...when you're doing the Amateur or Pro level MR Challenge, you won't need to try & induce oversteer....in fact, oversteer will become a constant given to avoid lest you wind up sliding out.

 

[KAMKA-Z]

Several of my cars have issues with high speed oversteer, especially under acceleration through high speed bends. My perfect car has "Transitional Understeer-Oversteer", that is, a slight push under acceleration and is slightly loose on deceleration. I tend to make changes with stabilizer bars and the diff, but often that just messes up the low speed handling and only marginally cures the original handling problem. My current "Problem Child" is the NSX Type R for the professional MR races. (I've adopted Parnelli's creedo of running cars without aerodynamic aids against cars without aerodynamic aids, otherwise I'd just go use the Raybrig NSX) I've used some of the settings from the GTVault but they don't do much for me. Many are good for short spurts with soft tires or don't take tire wear into consideration. I haven't messed with toe and camber much because they only seem to increase tire wear. I'm looking for tuning hints for longer runs on harder compound tires.

I'm so ashamed, The problem I'm having is with too much understeer with the NSX. It plows like a John Deere. I reread my post this morning and slapped myself in the forehead.

Remember The Rally Addage: "Oversteer scares the Co-Driver, Understeer scares the driver."

So I should be reversing the advice more or less.

 

[KAMKA-Z]

I've never encountered tire wear problems with camber at all. I'd try increasing the rear camber by a degree over the stock settings. This should help plant the outside rear tire and keep the rear in line.

The other thing to try is a small amount of rear toe in. That should also help stabilize the back end, particularly during acceleration.

In the pro MR I ran a lightly modified Zonda C12S.

It's very possible I used some settings for a car I got from the Vault that had some radical allignment settings and attributed the bad tire wear to that.
That Zonda seems the car to beat.

 

[Fantaman]

Trust me...when you're doing the Amateur or Pro level MR Challenge, you won't need to try & induce oversteer....in fact, oversteer will become a constant given to avoid lest you wind up sliding out.

Well actually I did those with the polypony001 so lot's of grip
But never had trouble sliding out only those sharp corners just some counter steering no problem But I will give it a try with my Vanquish. no driving aids

 

[sucahyo]

I use only stabilizer (if possible) to change highspeed handling. I use damper to compensate lowspeed handling change. I use both the same way I use BBC, as balancer .

 

[Duke]

I'm so ashamed, The problem I'm having is with too much understeer with the NSX. It plows like a John Deere. I reread my post this morning and slapped myself in the forehead.

Remember The Rally Addage: "Oversteer scares the Co-Driver, Understeer scares the driver."

So I should be reversing the advice more or less.

OK. Then set rear camber to zero, front camber to about -3 (actually, just 3, because PD got the values wrong on camber). If that's not enough, try adding a small amount of rear toe out - maybe half a degree.

If that's still not enough, make sure your rear swaybar is set stiffer than your front.

 

[Parnelli Bone]

Well actually I did those with the polypony001 so lot's of grip
But never had trouble sliding out only those sharp corners just some counter steering no problem But I will give it a try with my Vanquish. no driving aids

Yea, i was gonna say...you did these in an open-wheel race car?? Of course you never had trouble sliding out! Probly won by a large margin too, eh? Well try the Vanquish next! Consequently, i'm doing the Pro-level FR Challenge right now (well, not literally now) it's pretty cool! I've had to give my Mustang Cobra R full stage 3 power jsut to keep up with the TVR. see my grin? I just wish the Z06 could keep up with us so we'd have a triple-duel.

 

[Fantaman]

Yea, i was gonna say...you did these in an open-wheel race car?? Of course you never had trouble sliding out! Probly won by a large margin too, eh? Well try the Vanquish next! Consequently, i'm doing the Pro-level FR Challenge right now (well, not literally now) it's pretty cool! I've had to give my Mustang Cobra R full stage 3 power jsut to keep up with the TVR. see my grin? I just wish the Z06 could keep up with us so we'd have a triple-duel.

What I meant was, even when I was driving a RWD with no spoiles and stuff.
Because I didn't start with the F1 car, so when I won it, I start using it.
Because I like it to be easy, I'm not I pro, I make lots of mistakes.
The lazy man's way, as you can say it.

I will give the Vanquish a try this afternoon, sound like it could be a real challenge. If not... the car is to fast, it really goes with that screaming V12.

 

[Parnelli Bone]

What I meant was, even when I was driving a RWD with no spoiles and stuff.
Because I didn't start with the F1 car, so when I won it, I start using it.
Because I like it to be easy, I'm not I pro, I make lots of mistakes.
The lazy man's way, as you can say it.

I will give the Vanquish a try this afternoon, sound like it could be a real challenge. If not... the car is to fast, it really goes with that screaming V12.

Well at least you're honest. I might be wrong but I think the Vanquish is FR, not MR.

I'll post a quick update here about the Pro-level FR races.

• Apricot Hill...by far the toughest of the 3 races. My 'Stang had full power (652 hp with 613 ft-lbs.) and the pesky TVRs had me on my toes most of the time. The Mustang is such an inaccurate car to attack corners with, it's constantly trying to do its own thing just like an unruly horse, so i had 2 battles really: the TVR team AND my own car's handling

• Midfield II: I made a mistake and spun out on lap 7, but up till then i was neck-on-neck with the TVR! I made an early pitstop and won simply cuz the Speed 12 stays on its tires too long (14 laps) then makes an unessesary pitstop.

• Deep Forest II: in my opinion, the easiest of the 3 FR races. The Speed 12 doesn't spin, but it hits a few walls and takes the final hairpin too wide, hence i kept passing it down the straight but it kept passing me at various places in the course. I purposely detuned here (553 hp) just so i'd never get too far ahead of the Speed 12.

These were fun, i can't wait to do them again in a Shelby Cobra....maybe even a BMW 328Ci? Maybe a fully-blown Nissan Silvia?

 

[Fantaman]

Well at least you're honest. I might be wrong but I think the Vanquish is FR, not MR.

Yes you're wrong, I thought it would be better in to put it behind my seat

ooo well does it matter, school has begun agian and look what I'm doing... hanging around here allday so sorry I made a mistake

Speed 12 fully tuned = scary, so much torque it's insane and yet fun to drive
BMW 328Ci = my favorite drift car, but with only 470BHP can it keep up?

and editing almost every post because of stupid type errors
right it's now about 13:30 I think I'll go home now for some racing action

 

[Fantaman]

Went with the Vanquish -- Won pretty easely on Midway also because it had about 70 more BHP then the Tuscan Speed Six and tires with a little bit more grip because the TVS pitted at lap 14 of 15, wihlst my tires were worn out after 7 laps.

I also saw a NSX type R so i gave it a go at the pro MR challenge -- I started good I was first in the first 3 laps I thought well this giong to be pretty easy, WRONG, when the tires warmed up of the GT40, the lead was gone within 1 lap, and a was falling behind and I had to take a pitstop, the AI didn't.

conclusion I need a faster car for the pro mr challange.

And about that high speed oversteer only when doing full throttle in 4th gear with the Vanquish(745BHP and Hard tires), It was minor drifting and when you're carefull with the throttle no oversteer.
It was fun, a little oversteer in 2 cornes

 

[Parnelli Bone]

Speed 12 fully tuned = scary, so much torque it's insane and yet fun to drive
BMW 328Ci = my favorite drift car, but with only 470BHP can it keep up?

Yeah, you're right..i don't think it can keep up with just 470. Damn! I love my 328.

 

[Krispen Wah]

I just try to correct steering as neccessary.
It works some of the time.
The rest of the time..............

 

[Fantaman]

when I race I don't know Fear
{or anything else}
And yep countersteering works fine for me

 

[KAMKA-Z]

I'm so ashamed, The problem I'm having is with too much understeer with the NSX. It plows like a John Deere. I reread my post this morning and slapped myself in the forehead.

Remember The Rally Addage: "Oversteer scares the Co-Driver, Understeer scares the driver."

So I should be reversing the advice more or less.

I gave up messing with that NSX.

"I had to crash that Honda, Baby" -Bruce Willis in Pulp Fiction

Bought a Baby Blue Boxter (Ruf3400). Cute and Fast. It's much easier to tweak and I'm able to make much more consistent laps. I used the Boxer Spirit-PRO races to sort it out and got another Por-shuh rocket for my prize. (I spell it like that cause I dislike hearing it pronounced wrong) With all the mods, I'm still a little off the pace to beat the GT-40 in the Pro MR races. I'm still frustrated by the front washing out in the first Left-Right at Trial Mountain and the High speed bends on Midfield II. It seems like I should be able to go through them Flat-Out. I tried stickier tires and a one stop strategy but still couldn't get better than a distant 2nd place. I'm wearing the front tires out a little bit faster than the rears too.

 

[Parnelli Bone]

I gave up messing with that NSX.

"I had to crash that Honda, Baby" -Bruce Willis in Pulp Fiction

Bought a Baby Blue Boxter (Ruf3400). Cute and Fast. It's much easier to tweak and I'm able to make much more consistent laps. I used the Boxer Spirit-PRO races to sort it out and got another Por-shuh rocket for my prize. (I spell it like that cause I dislike hearing it pronounced wrong) With all the mods, I'm still a little off the pace to beat the GT-40 in the Pro MR races. I'm still frustrated by the front washing out in the first Left-Right at Trial Mountain and the High speed bends on Midfield II. It seems like I should be able to go through them Flat-Out. I tried stickier tires and a one stop strategy but still couldn't get better than a distant 2nd place. I'm wearing the front tires out a little bit faster than the rears too.

That's cool, i didn't know you could race a rear-engine car like the RUF with those MRs. I should try that. I haven't driven any RUFs in GT3 yet, but in gT2 you're right--they have a tendency to understeer, which surprised me. The understeer is much more present than any oversteer or fishtailing from what i remember.

 

[KAMKA-Z]

That's cool, i didn't know you could race a rear-engine car like the RUF with those MRs. I should try that. I haven't driven any RUFs in GT3 yet, but in gT2 you're right--they have a tendency to understeer, which surprised me. The understeer is much more present than any oversteer or fishtailing from what i remember.

Just the Boxter (3400) is mid engine. The others are rear engined so they can't race there.

 

[Parnelli Bone]

Just the Boxter (3400) is mid engine. The others are rear engined so they can't race there.

OH yeah, i just read about the new mid-engine Boxter in Car & DRiver and Motor Trend. Drrr.

 

[Scaff]

That's cool, i didn't know you could race a rear-engine car like the RUF with those MRs. I should try that. I haven't driven any RUFs in GT3 yet, but in gT2 you're right--they have a tendency to understeer, which surprised me. The understeer is much more present than any oversteer or fishtailing from what i remember.

To quote the 'Porsche Driving Manual' (as close as I can get to RUF on my bookcase)...

"Porsche's are fundamentally under-steering cars"

...the RR layout will generally give a tendency to under-steer heavily as the front tyres will generally carry a lower proportion of the overall load. The problem comes when you then get that load over the front tyres and they grip strongly, the weight at the back will act like a big pendulum and develop massive over-steer.

Its a typical Porsche (and therefore RUF) trait of dominant under-steer that develops into heavy and sudden over-steer, hence the strong recommendation of a strict 'slow-in and fast-out' approach.

Regards

Scaff

 

[TransAm455]

RUF's suck, SKYLINES FOR LIFE.

 

[Parnelli Bone]

RUF's suck, SKYLINES FOR LIFE.

Wow, you did not just say that did you?

 

[Duke]

SKYLINES 4 LYFE.

Fixed.

I'd rather have a car that understeers some of the time and oversteers some of the time, rather than one that understeers all the time.

 

[Parnelli Bone]

...probly can't handle a Porsche, so he just moves to plan B--thinks they suck, so now he doesn't have to prove anything. Am i right TransAm455?

 

[shabba]

Hmm. Methinks a Nurburgring run between an R34 GT/R and an RGT could leave somebody feeling a bit like they've been hit by a boxer...

Then again, isn't the RGT naturally aspirated, and RWD? Better make it the CTR2... Mmm. KKK turbo goodness, x2. Mmm. Tyre smoke smorgasbord, x4.

Whilst I love both, I know which one I'd pick in a pinch...

Hey TransAm. Can you name a Skyline that will do 200MPH straight off the showroom floor? Let's head to the 'Por-shuh' dealership and abuse... erm, I mean 'test drive' a 911 turbo (aka 996 twin turbo).

 

[Parnelli Bone]

I was hoping TransAm would try and flame me about the Skyline/Ruf comment, but it's been several months

 

[Bulldozer]

If it's not too much of a hijack, how do you like the Lotus Esprit 350 in the MR category? I know it can be fast, but how's the handling? Would it do alright in the pro league races?