Historic Touring Car Heroes - Saturday 15th June - BoP TEST RACE

  • Thread starter MaxAttack
  • 42 comments
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Apologies for the no show missing race 1. Screwed up my time management and got the hour wrong. Took a while to catch on but I think with a bit of adjusting this will be fun.

Had a blast working to stay out of your blue flag warnings at the end @Poolshark3436 as I finally started getting the hang of it.
 
Apologies for the no show missing race 1. Screwed up my time management and got the hour wrong. Took a while to catch on but I think with a bit of adjusting this will be fun.

Had a blast working to stay out of your blue flag warnings at the end @Poolshark3436 as I finally started getting the hang of it.
You did do a good job at the end putting together good consistent laps.
 
@MaxAttack was the race successful on your end? Did you learn what you were hoping to learn from the race Saturday evening?
It was very useful but has ended up shaking up my plans a fair amount.

In any case I will probably wait for Autumn time to be setting up a full series purely because more people tend to be around for gaming by then, plus it gives me more time to procrastinate which is ace.
 
I only tried the Renault, but I think there is something in the concept of a historic touring car series.

My thoughts/questions:
  • The three class A cars from last week (Merc, Ford and BMW) are all classics and really fit what I think historic touring cars are.
    • Ok I'm biased as I grew up in the 80s.
  • Could it work as a series of one-make rounds?
    • This would mean we don't have to work so hard on getting the BoP super tight.
  • Even with one-make rounds, we still allow set-ups.
  • I like the two races per round concept with the reverse grid for race two.
  • Maybe we have soft, medium and hard tyres at different rounds.
    • Could be done at random with the selection announced a week before the race.
  • I liked the class A and class C idea.
    • So even with one-make races, we could still use some of the slower cars.
  • We have the Alfa 155 touring car already in the game, we could use that in the final round.
    • It might need a BoP edit to set the car with a spec from that time.
  • I'd include the Nissan R-32 too for a round too.
    • It's one of my favourite cars.
  • I once saw the Lancia Delta in a touring car race in 1991. It wasn't a BTCC round though.
  • What about the Mini Cooper?
    • This raced in the British Saloon Car Championship.
    • Although I think this would only work in the context of a one make per race series.
 
I only tried the Renault, but I think there is something in the concept of a historic touring car series.

My thoughts/questions:
  • The three class A cars from last week (Merc, Ford and BMW) are all classics and really fit what I think historic touring cars are.
    • Ok I'm biased as I grew up in the 80s.
  • Could it work as a series of one-make rounds?
    • This would mean we don't have to work so hard on getting the BoP super tight.
  • Even with one-make rounds, we still allow set-ups.
  • I like the two races per round concept with the reverse grid for race two.
  • Maybe we have soft, medium and hard tyres at different rounds.
    • Could be done at random with the selection announced a week before the race.
  • I liked the class A and class C idea.
    • So even with one-make races, we could still use some of the slower cars.
  • We have the Alfa 155 touring car already in the game, we could use that in the final round.
    • It might need a BoP edit to set the car with a spec from that time.
  • I'd include the Nissan R-32 too for a round too.
    • It's one of my favourite cars.
  • I once saw the Lancia Delta in a touring car race in 1991. It wasn't a BTCC round though.
  • What about the Mini Cooper?
    • This raced in the British Saloon Car Championship.
    • Although I think this would only work in the context of a one make per race series.
The other Group A races I’ve done had rules for the race/custom parts that could be added and then they gave you a PP, HP & weight limits.

It did work pretty well. And you had some guys that setup their car to be fast on the straights and didn’t do as well in the corners then others on rails around the corners but not fast on the straights.

I am actually kind of interested in doing something with the American Pony cars and American Muscle cars and that’s how I’d do it with PP & weight minimum. Pony cars will have a HP limit but I’m thinking the muscle cars will have no HP limit but have a PP & weight limit.
 
I only tried the Renault, but I think there is something in the concept of a historic touring car series.

My thoughts/questions:
  • The three class A cars from last week (Merc, Ford and BMW) are all classics and really fit what I think historic touring cars are.
    • Ok I'm biased as I grew up in the 80s.
  • Could it work as a series of one-make rounds?
    • This would mean we don't have to work so hard on getting the BoP super tight.
  • Even with one-make rounds, we still allow set-ups.
  • I like the two races per round concept with the reverse grid for race two.
  • Maybe we have soft, medium and hard tyres at different rounds.
    • Could be done at random with the selection announced a week before the race.
  • I liked the class A and class C idea.
    • So even with one-make races, we could still use some of the slower cars.
  • We have the Alfa 155 touring car already in the game, we could use that in the final round.
    • It might need a BoP edit to set the car with a spec from that time.
  • I'd include the Nissan R-32 too for a round too.
    • It's one of my favourite cars.
  • I once saw the Lancia Delta in a touring car race in 1991. It wasn't a BTCC round though.
  • What about the Mini Cooper?
    • This raced in the British Saloon Car Championship.
    • Although I think this would only work in the context of a one make per race series.
Not to put you down, but pretty much everything here has been on the planning table at some point in the last few months. Just to answer a few of these off the top of my head;

As it stands I am looking to expand the car selection in Class A - the best candidates for this are the R31 Skyline and the Toyota Celica Supra. A bopped build for the latter already exists.

Why no R32? It's simply too fast and can't reasonably be bopped to the others, while this may be historically accurate nobody wants a GT series with a roundly OP car that will just be picked by the first to come along. I have similar reasoning with the Lancia Delta which aside from being 4wd has no real record as a touring car.

The original thinking behind this idea was to make use of the famously wonky and confusing multi class scoring system of the pre-90s BTCC, which saw cars in the lower classes win overall championships, purely because this would be amusing and a little different.

However there have always been a few wrenches in the works of such a plan with the main one being the lack of fitting road cars of the 80s, even 90s where we are lacking a lot of iconic cars - we have no 80s Alfa Romeos, we have no Rover Vitesse, etc, etc.

The real lynchpin to making the multiclass idea work was the VW Golf - try as I might I simply cannot get it up to speed with the other class C cars, at a certain point of adding power it overwhelms the chassis and becomes a total understeer barge. Since I have no viable candidate at all for a third class C car I have to rethink the whole thing - I do not want a 4 car class with so little racing for people to enjoy.

All that said I have no desire to overcomplicate the championship and thus I'm keen to avoid people having to buy too many cars, especially where they're not always available in the UCD/LCD.

So this is where I'm currently at;

Class A will get a bunch more BoP testing with the view to add more cars, the R31 skyline, Celica Supra, and we will take a look at some other candidates such as the Volvo 240.

Class C will, barring the introduction of another suitable car, need to change form somehow. Given the vast availability of the Toyota compared to the other cars (it appears in two forms thus twice as often) it may simply become a Corolla one make.

The series will be a two car championship with each event consisting of a race in the class A cars, then in whatever shape class C takes, with both a separate and combined points leaderboard.

So in short I appreciate the ideas but have a clear vision of what I've wanted to do with this group of cars; it's really my first attempt at a properly organised series where I will be providing a field of cars that's been tested to race each other well. We have done quite a few series-of-one-make type tours and I'm eager to make this a bit different especially since, again, obtaining every single car on a historic list is a ballache in this game.

And just for a couple more bulletpoints;
  • I will always use the hardest tyre I believe the car can reasonably race on as historic cars can have their feeling very dulled by too much grip from modern tyres
  • The Mini Cooper can't possibly be made fast enough (this was on the table - they appear on BTCC entry lists well into the early 80s)
  • We will look at American cars that could make a case in class C, as the initial brief was "retro BTCC" and this has steadily expanded over time to make American cars fit more appropriately at this point
  • A lot of people find setup off-putting so while I don't want to ban people making the car drive to their liking I'm very keen to not have it be the focus of a series. Hence any series would have open suspension and diffs but locked aero and spec gear ratios per circuit, it's just less to scare away a less experienced driver who might join us.

Hope that covers enough for now just rest assured I'm in the lab and things will take shape over the coming weeks. Generally we have found numbers to be lower in summer so this probably won't become a series until autumn time anyway.

/Essay
 
Thanks for taking the time to give a detailed reply.

I realised after I posted that a lot of the points I raised could well have been debated on Discord. I haven’t been able to get on there as much as before.

I totally get the multi-class retro BTCC concept you were trying to do, and I think that would be better than a set one make races.

Set ups wouldn’t put me off a race if I really wanted to do it, but overall I think your right and set ups can put people off.

If I’m free and see that there is TPC retro touring car race on, you can be sure that I’ll be getting my racing shoes on (my slippers!).
 
Oh when you have the next race or have a series all setup I can share your race details with another group I race with. They race on Saturday nights a lobby opens 3ish hours after this race happened. So they may have interest and the main season for this group in January-July.
That would be sweet - we are always keen to find new folks to race with!

I'll try to remember to keep you in the loop when my plans go ahead.
 
That would be sweet - we are always keen to find new folks to race with!

I'll try to remember to keep you in the loop when my plans go ahead.
Cool. I’ll keep monitoring this thread. So if you post here I’ll know.

Oh btw the group A races I was in had the Supra and the ford cosworth from the 80s in them. They all did seem to be pretty even except for the skill behind the wheel.
 
Just picked up the Levin as it is available in the used car showroom.

Just done a 15 min custom race at Brands - fuel and tyres at x1. I often do custom races when I practice as I least I'm earning some easy credits.

I used the set up as shown in the initial post from page 1. I think it's a good starting point.
  • The gears at 210 on the Levin are better suited than the 250 on the Renault (at least at Brands).
    • Rev it out in 4th on the main straight up the fast right at Hawthorns. Doesn't hit the limiter.
  • I did 10 laps in 15 mins. I started at the back of 20 cars (all Renault 5s). I also did 10 laps in 15 mins when I was practising in the Renault last week.
  • I think the Levin is a safer drive than the Renault and easier to be consistant.
    • You could hit a kerb funny in the Renault and you could be off.
  • I felt I could brake later in the Renault and chuck it in. I think the Levin might need a smoother driving style.
  • In the Levin, I did most my laps in the 1:37s once I cleared the traffic, with an optimum in the high 1:36s.
  • I can't remember my final time in the Renault, but in the Levin it was 16:26.654.
    • I'm adding this in case others want to replicate and/or I try again after adding my own tune.
Edit....

Had another 15 mins custom race. Moved BB to +2 - the only change to the car. I think +2 helps.
This time I had an off at Westfield, so my overall time was slower. However, three laps in the 1:36s this time and an optimal in the low 1:36s.
 
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