Hot take: What are we *really* getting from having a livery editor?

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Ridley-X4
I remember when a livery editor was a major requested-feature among GT players. And so here we are, with GTS introducing it in that October 2017. However, just because GT's contemporaries - such as Forza and NFS - also feature a livery editor, is that alone a reason to include a livery editor?

Let's consider some personal observations, and if you bear with me, a few hypotheses I had as well.

When I examine the sorting options for car liveries (and to an extent, the helmet & suit liveries, too) other than "latest" on the site, I'm gonna be blunt. For a feature that's ideally mean to facilitate an additional way for players to ostensibly express themselves, I am seeing next to no original designs. For every fantastic design I've seen in forum livery competitions (either here or on Reddit), there's a billion liveries that simply replicate something else. Either a real-world racing livery, or a car from a videogame, or perhaps from a movie. (I swear, if I see another Paul Walker R34...)

On top of this, there are potential costs to GT/PD with the current system, such as paying moderators to prune offensive liveries/decals, and paying for the hosting of all the decals/liveries.

Ideally, the livery editor should be designed insofar that creating good-looking liveries, which can help to express a given player, should be easy. This may not necessarily mean that all the options we have in the current editor are necessary. On the other hand, it may be better to have this current editor serve as some sort of "advanced" mode, and complemented with a comparatively simpler mode that makes good livery creation easy.

The system that comes to mind for me is the one used in Need for Speed: Most Wanted (2005). In there, you can pick any color you wish, and for sponsor stickers, you can pick a sponsor, then place it in a preset location on the door, or on the rear panel. You can also pick a sponsor sticker for the front & rear windows, too. In a revised version of this editor, I'd add additional preset locations to place these decals, especially locations where sponsor decals already appear on the default livery.

As for the livery, you have various vinyls, some of which can cover the entire car, and may also offer you the option to pick multiple colors for some vinyls. In MW2005, some of these vinyls could range from simple racing stripes, to one that resembles the Gulf livery seen on various Porsches and Fords. If something similar were to come to GT, these presets could be submitted by actual livery designers, such as Andy Blackmore, or Sean Bull.

In addition, I'd add the option to use the entire car as one section, rather than needing to continue a design from the hood to the main body, or the reverse. I also would eliminate all the special colors (aside from the real-world car paints), in lieu of making them options for the paint you ultimately pick, complete with the option to pick two or three colors for a potential colorshift paint. And instead of a carbon fiber texture, I'd allow it so that you don't have to paint over every section of the car - you could leave a wing or the front canards as CF, but still paint the body or hood, for example.

And even without a livery editor, there could be other ways to allow players to express themselves, namely with various mechanical parts. In this regard, I am referring to rear wings and wheels, as well as the various aero parts seen in GT6. There's also the idea of the RM system returning, as both a way to convert a road car you own into a formal race car (whether in Gr.4, Gr.3, etc.) as well as to potentially remove these cars from the dealerships to avoid clutter within their menus, with the latter function dovetailing the RM feature into making each RM car a surprise of sorts to experimenting players. It's like finding which Pokemon within your party evolves with a certain evolutionary stone.

I also had some thoughts on the default decals that ought to be available within the editor. For a given car, I'd make both the modern logo for the manufacturer a decal, but also any historic, period-appropriate version of the logo if the car is sufficiently old enough. I'd also only have certain default sponsor decals available if they're actually equipped on the car, such as how the RC-F Gr.2 features Snap-On and Takata, or how the Peugeot 908 HDi FAP features Bosch, BBS, and Brembo. (Of course, I'd still have the option for players to have custom decals if they still wish.) I'd also have the nameplate for the car as a default decal - something I'd also display at the dealerships, like in GT4. And I'd also have decals for the modern manufacturer logo as "separate parts." For example, there could be logos having both the Toyota logo and its name, and then one with just each of those two elements. I also would add all in-house tuners as default decals (something we somewhat already see with TRD being a decal on Lexus & Toyota vehicles) such as AMG, Ralliart, STI, M, N, SRT, and so on.

It's just that I'm thinking back to when Kaz picked that tuned Honda at SEMA recently, and how he said it's in the spirit of GT. (I agree.) So that got me thinking about how the livery editor can also reflect that, or better-reflect that. I wonder if there's a similar discussion to be had on the course editor, as well? Maybe we could have an option to craft a route in Google Earth, and make it a track in GT, even if the scenery may differ quite a bit. I'm unsure what to make of previous course creators, between GT5 and GT6, and if they could truly offer interesting community-created content, and not have a repeat of the livery editor where it's mostly just replicas for the cars, suits, and helmets. (Perhaps also offering skins or a special hidden version of a car would be good, there? I know we were able to get special helms/suits relating to Senna in GT6...)

Minor edit: I think there also should be a way to share settings beyond listing them on forums, and potentially a way to share customized cars - perhaps adding stuff like an aero kit would still be listed as a “livery”?
 
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rono_thomas

Adrenaline Racing Community.
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GTSport isn’t GT6 or 5, and what is considered good looking is subjective. A livery editor isn't an expression for everyone to agree with, its an outlet for individuals to express and create for themselves. If others like these creations is neither here nor there.

Likewise if you can get your head around creating your own decals the possibilities are endless.
 
944
United Kingdom
London/Malaysia
Waizon/ v8stage1
I think that GT Sport has been created for all levels of players - whether this is in terms of the players speed & race craft, or their creativity and ability to use the livery editor and photography modules. It admittedly takes some time and effort to learn how to effectively use the livery editor, and so many beginners are less likely to be able to produce high quality designs. The liveries I create are now are far superior to those I created when GT Sport came out, but still I don't think that I can create really good liveries. (I think that I am limited by my creativity). But the quality of what I produce doesn't really have very much impact on other players (if any at all) but i still enjoy sharing. Just as I enjoy looking at other galleries.

With respect to the many copies of iconic liveries (and in this, I plead guilty), well, of course this is inevitable. The liveries are iconic for a reason, and many of them are easy to reproduce. Creating good original designs are really difficult - I feel this every time I have a go at entering the Livery Editor Competition. Whilst the Livery Editor could do with a few improvements, I feel that in its current state it is pretty easy to use for pretty well all users, robust and sufficiently capable to be able to produce pretty well anything a designer can conceive.

However, I would agree that searching for fantastic and original liveries (photos and decals) isn't easy. The search function could do with being upgraded, and it might be this that would be most helpful.
 
3,132
United States
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Ridley-X4
From both of your replies, perhaps we can agree that instead, it’d be better to improve on the current livery editor, as well as stuff like search functions. Such as what I mentioned about the default decals per vehicle and special paint organization (including being able to sort real paints by automaker, and perhaps even model as well) potentially improving the UX.

And perhaps they could improve on GT6’s course editor, too, in a similar fashion. Of course, this in in addition to improving the in-game social media aspect, including search functions. Perhaps for “trending,” they could allow us to search the most-liked items within multiple periods. Such as for this week, month, three months, or six months. Another option could be to allow us to also search by most-shared or downloaded, too...
 
14,338
United Kingdom
Not so Great Britain
I think the OP makes a reasonable observation, a lot of people tend towards creating replicas.. But I'm not then seeing any suggestions that would change this situation, or even why it needs changing in the first place.

In answer to the thread title, what we're getting is the ability to add a livery to your car that could be as simple as a different colour and a GT sticker, or as complex as you have the time to create.
 
2,387
Scotland
Scotland
stpatty
The search function is, largely, terrible. Aside from being at the mercy of whatever three tags the creator assigned to it (also assuming they spelled them correctly), if you look at the Popular or Trending tags, what are you going to find? Anime, Gulf, Rothman's, JPS or Red Bull.

I remember the first time I used the livery editor. It was on a Gr.4 Porsche. I painted it blue (one of the special colours) and put an orange stripe along the sides at the bottom of the door panel, in between the wheel arches. The rest of the options were completely overwhelming to me, and I didn't have any real inspiration for what I wanted to create anyway.

I think the biggest problem with applying decals and creating something is that it reminds me a bit of LittleBigPlanet's custom level option. You could go online and find levels people had created with the same materials and objects available to everyone, and it was amazing. A massive variation of genres available, in every kind of theme, and a seemingly endless amount of them. Then you go in and try to make something, put a few boxes on the ground and change the colours a bit. It takes you an hour. If you like, you can watch several hours of tutorial videos which show the advanced options, which might as well be in Chinese.

When I look at the things people create on here, in the competitions and in the general thread, I'm always amazed when I see really intricate, detailed patterns. There's an orange and blue Nissan recently posted in the general thread here:

Gran Turismo Sport Livery Thread and Discussion! (Read Original Post!)

I could never create something like this in a million years. Partly because I've got no clue how to apply decals to the Gr.3 GT-R and make it look good (and I have really, really tried), and also partly because I would never be able to find half of them anyway. If you can't use Photoshop how can you have something as unique as that? You have to go to the SVG request thread on here and hope the wonderful Maninashed can do it for you.

The only livery editor I can remember using in a game off the top of my head was in Grid 2, where there was an assortment of pre-set designs and patterns you could use that the OP described. The problem with that is you then lose a lot of individuality if players are all able to pick from the same designs. Plus, if you think having moderators to look through decals/liveries or servers to host them all on is a lot of effort, what would it be if you created hundreds of custom pre-set patterns that weren't really used, because everyone wanted to stick with Rothman's stripes on their cars?

I love seeing people online with well-made liveries, whether replicas of something iconic or original. I cringe whenever I see the Gran Turismo number panel covering them up. I know to avoid people who drive chrome coloured cars with fluorescent wheels. I think the livery editor is an overwhelmingly positive addition to Gran Turismo, and I hope any refinement doesn't take away the freedom and creativity possible with it.
 
14,338
United Kingdom
Not so Great Britain
The search function is, largely, terrible. Aside from being at the mercy of whatever three tags the creator assigned to it (also assuming they spelled them correctly), if you look at the Popular or Trending tags, what are you going to find? Anime, Gulf, Rothman's, JPS or Red Bull.

I'm not disagreeing with this, but, for example...

When I look at the things people create on here, in the competitions and in the general thread, I'm always amazed when I see really intricate, detailed patterns. There's an orange and blue Nissan recently posted in the general thread here:

So, here's a question,.. what would you expect to search for, in order to find that livery, or original ones like it? What Tags should MMX have used to better make it available?

edit: I like @MMX 's stuff... so this isn't a criticism, but using your username is a bit of a waste as a tag, since you can find all a users liveries anyway if your aware of what their name is.

The search function (especially for Decals), is ****, but when it comes to liveries, I think PD needs a more creative, or dynamic, approach to how they highlight them.
 
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2,387
Scotland
Scotland
stpatty
I'm not disagreeing with this, but, for example...



So, here's a question,.. what would you expect to search for, in order to find that livery, or original ones like it? What Tags should MMX have used to better make it available?

edit: I like @MMX 's stuff... so this isn't a criticism, but using your username is a bit of a waste as a tag, since you can find all a users liveries anyway if your aware of what their name is.

The search function (especially for Decals), is ****, but when it comes to liveries, I think PD needs a more creative, or dynamic, approach to how they highlight them.
That was more a criticism of the system rather than people using it. Say I'm a casual player of GT Sport and I want to find a livery for that car that looks a bit different. By casual I mean 'doesn't have a gtplanet account'. I don't know what I want to find exactly, but something a bit unique. If I go into the search mode for that car and just search by the Unique genre filter, I'm currently getting pages of what I would say still look like racing cars. I've just found that car in-game and it has 20 likes and 1 repost.

I was going to ask what sort of tags I would expect to put on that car myself if I was looking for it, and none of them are really the ones applied. Orange, blue, stripes, what else can you realistically use to describe it? And even then, I went back about a week in the results to find this. Considering the game loads ~two days' worth of liveries at a time, what happens if something like this was created in February 2018? Nobody's ever going to find it. And as a casual user not looking for anything specific in particular, I'm not going to trawl through every livery for the car available, I'm going to find the first thing that sort of catches my eye and stick with it.
 
233
Netherlands
Netherlands
I think one of the reasons you see so much replica liveries is because it is a good way to learn how to use the editor. Just find some good reference pictures of the designs and recreate it with the shapes that are available. As i am not a designer but want to run a nice livery i usually look up a design that i like and adapt it to the car i want to use it on.

I do agree that the tagging and search system could use some work as it is really hard to find some liveries. Sometimes i see a nice livery in a scape picture but there is no way to find out who made it. It would be nice if they could add a link to the livery that is used. But some is also because the behavior of the players and the need to share everything. I always wonder why so many people share a design where they only changed the rims or the base paint? That also clutters the search results.
 
1,162
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
So, here's a question,.. what would you expect to search for, in order to find that livery, or original ones like it?

You want, for example, a unique livery on a Nissan GTR GT3.

Car Livery
Search
Country; Japan
Manufacturer; Nissan
Car; GT-R GT3
Livery Settings (genre); Unique

Take the time to look through it and it's all there for you. The game provides all the tools, it seems a lot of people don't observe them or want things instantly laid on a plate.
Just like with creating a good livery, finding a good one takes time.

*EDIT* By using that system, i just found MMX's livery in less than 1 minute. The system works just fine.
 
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MMX

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My ears were burning, so I had to come in here and see why. I struggle a lot with what to use for search tags, so you get stupid things like the GTR has, but I hate to leave it empty. I guess if the search word sucks, it might as well be empty.
 
709
United States
Southfield, Detroit
BroncoFLHX
I think one of the reasons you see so much replica liveries is because it is a good way to learn how to use the editor. Just find some good reference pictures of the designs and recreate it with the shapes that are available. As i am not a designer but want to run a nice livery i usually look up a design that i like and adapt it to the car i want to use it on.

I do agree that the tagging and search system could use some work as it is really hard to find some liveries. Sometimes i see a nice livery in a scape picture but there is no way to find out who made it. It would be nice if they could add a link to the livery that is used. But some is also because the behavior of the players and the need to share everything. I always wonder why so many people share a design where they only changed the rims or the base paint? That also clutters the search results.
Very good point. Reference is used in design to notice patterns in how something looks “right”. I remember spending four hours making a Renown livery for the C7R, and repeatedly looked at the 787b to check my accuracy. The tools used in the livery editor are unweildy, but can be very powerful when used in the right way, and I didn’t know that until I made that replica. I don’t mind seeing a bunch of replicas (except when there’s 14 FINA livery F1 GTR’s in one page), but they shouldn’t be made into some unspoken thing you’re not supposed to do. If you wanna get better, you gotta learn from what’s better.
 

VXR

10,519
United Kingdom
Plymouth, UK
motorforum
The search feature on a Web browser works perfectly well and the game would be a lot worse off without the editor. The single player racing experience alone wouldn't keep this game going for 18 months, so at least it has some in depth offline content.
 
1,214
United Kingdom
The Pool Of Life.
Firstly, I don’t care if the need for moderators costs PD money, as they, and Sony, are making a ****load of cash. :rolleyes: To pay some people to moderate is peanuts, and you would think that some of it would be automated to flag up a lot of questionable content, and you also have people reporting stuff.

For me, the livery editor brings a lot to a game that is not that much without the online racing element, which I don’t do. The liveries I have tried to make have been mostly original, although in that I mean not a replica. I’m not saying that they are not like anyone else, because I am using mostly ‘simplish’ designs with well known brands, they can sometimes unwittingly look similar to others designs. But do I care? No, because I did mine, and it makes each car/design special for me. If I put them online (I don't put them all online, just the one's I am most happy with) and people decide to use them, (or the decals I have uploaded) then you’re welcome, and I take it as a compliment. :)

I have tried doing a couple of replicas of cars that have caught my eye from the last couple of years from Bathhurst as a challenge to try and get something as exact as possible. Whilst these were not famous, and / or historic designs, I was still surprised to see others had done the same thing. Part of the challenge was to track down pics of the cars from various angles, which can be harder with less well known designs. As long as I enjoyed doing it, no one needs to like or use it. It takes a fraction of a second to scroll past it. ;)

I have also done a few design for a Youtuber, with the odd one being used, which was nice to see when it used them in a stream. :D

I have no desire to use other people’s liveries, though I like to look at what other people are doing with the same program I am using. For those that don’t want to, or can’t produce their own content, is trying the odd search term and scrolling through some pages that hard compared to the time to actually create your own content! I’m not saying that there shouldn’t be improvements, but a lot of the search functionality is reliant on people tagging correctly as people have said. If you can't be bothered to take more than 5 mins searching for something that catches your eye, well no searching with the current method of people uploading, missing or inaccurate tags is going to be that quick any time soon imho.

I like the idea of certain decals to be sorted and available for certain cars as in real life designs, but not to be only put in preset locations, as the cars would have in real life, but I think that if PD had the rights to do that, they would already be available in the editor in the list of real company decals.

As for having a simplified editor with presets, I think that could lead to a lot of similar looking ‘basic’ designs. I don’t want the idea of limiting features to enter PD’s thinking though, as it is not as if it is that hard to change the colour of a car, add stripes and few decals.It could literally take 5 mins.

I want features added to enhance the livery editor to enable more intricate and individual designs.
To be able to colour elements, shapes and decals, with custom paint colours.
To invert a decal to make it work as mask, rather than relying on someone uploading a mask version of a decal you may want to use. It is sometimes nice to have a mask allowing through the underlying colour of the car, especially if that is a special colour as chrome, pearlescent or whatever, as the special colours can’t be used to paint a decal or shape as mentioned above.
Being able to easily sort the library of decals, which can add up to 1000 to go through, to quickly find stuff.
Being able to copy elements from front to roof, or side to back etc, rather than just one side to the other.
To be able to group elements together to move as one, or copy to another part of the car as one.
The option to a stroke (colour outline) of a decal or shape, as to do this effect atm can use up multiple copies below the main decal/shape to get the same effect, using up valuable memory.

The main thing I want is any decals I add to my library saved to my PS4 so as to get past the problem of decals disappearing when the original uploader deletes the decal or their account, which can lead to a design you spent possibly hours over suddenly losing elements. This will only get worse as time goes on a GT Sport users move on to other games.
 
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3,132
United States
Connecticut
Ridley-X4
Some more ideas I had were the following:
-Perhaps it could be beneficial to have the livery editor, in a future installment, be also usable via a mobile or desktop app. I recall the track editor in GT6 doing this. But I think it should be available in-game, too, and for iPhones and on desktops (perhaps via the site itself?) instead of just tablets.

-Perhaps for the default livery a car has, (or any additional livery that you obtain in-game, vs. downloaded from other players) you could edit it as it is. Like you could replace the decals already on the car with different brands, but still in the same location. In addition, you could have a color-dropper tool, and once you've selected a color that's on the default livery, you could have an option to "replace all instances of this color" with a different color. It's sort of like a forum's word filter, but for colors. Overall, you wouldn't be able to download another player's livery and edit it, but you could do this for the default liveries, or any other liveries available outside of downloading from other players.

And perhaps we could still have those presets (and they could vary depending on the car itself), but it'd be another group of decals, instead of having them replacing certain features of the editor. I suppose the editor we have now could be treated as a more "advanced" mode, and I'm proposing a "simple" mode, to have a relatively quick way to make good-looking liveries, at the expense of more intricate control and/or decal placement, among other things.
 

R1600Turbo

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54,281
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R1600Turbo
The search function is, largely, terrible.
I'll agree on this. Flipping through pages of literally nothing to find what you are looking for is unnecessarily time consuming.

And can we get a "next page" link at the bottom of each results page? Is that too hard?