I really wish they would reinstate the E to X Class Rivals hot laps.

  • Thread starter RikkiGT-R
  • 19 comments
  • 777 views

RikkiGT-R

GT: IamValhalla
Premium
2,512
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Rikki_GTR
IamValhalla
I know posting here is unlikely to change anything but this is one thing I hate about Forza 7. I would spend 90% of my time hotlapping in previous titles, going through every available track in E class, then D Class, C Class (and on and on) lapping and lapping until I set a time I was happy with. Returning to tracks and classes time and again eking out tenths of a second here and there... I remember in FM4 I made it into the top 100 overall (all tracks and classes combined) and I was far from finished.

Of course I appreciate that homologation has watered down the leaderboards so now there are loads more, and even I've found myself topping a few of them, but they could've still went with Classes E to X with the ability to filter the leaderboards according to homologation.

For example:
All Class S cars together, then filtered through: Exotic GT, Rise of the Supercar (and so on)...

What's more annoying is there isn't even a hotlapping mode any more. You have to fanny around with free play, choose the track, the ribbon, the car class, remove the drivatars and God forbid you accidentally reset to defaults; having to go back out and double check what homologation class you are currently driving and do it all again. I'm absolutely certain they've turned a lot of the long-time fans of the game away (those who only really bought the game for the hotlapping leaderboards).

Semi-rant over.
 
6,318
United States
West Virginia
HBR-Roadhog
HBR Roadhog
You don't have to remove the drivatars, simply set collisions to off so they do not dirty your laps.

I would like to see the rivals boards back as well but for the new divisions rather than the old classes. The higher classes had been pretty lame starting with FM3 when they started letting 700-1000 hp super/hyper cars into the same class with race cars.
 

RikkiGT-R

GT: IamValhalla
Premium
2,512
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Rikki_GTR
IamValhalla
You don't have to remove the drivatars, simply set collisions to off so they do not dirty your laps.

Will this still be classed as "hardcore" though? That's the important part...
 

RikkiGT-R

GT: IamValhalla
Premium
2,512
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Rikki_GTR
IamValhalla
@HBR-Roadhog - I already play on Hardcore, my only worry was that if “ghosting” the Drivatars would mean it’s no longer classed as hardcore (I wouldn’t do it then since I’m only really concerned with Leaderboards).

I’ll give it a blast soon. I love the competition but they are genuine idiots :D
 
10,456
United States
United States
WrecklessAbandon
For Hardcore you need normal or sim steering, no tcs, abs, stability control, auto clutch or driving line.


Am I the only one that thought the previous class system was terrible?

There was no way to even use over half the cars in the game for leaderboards (meaning way more than now)
The boards were dominated by the lesser 1% that know how to make wild builds, car building and tuning was far more relevant than driver skill...

And almost every car ended up tuned wildly because mathematically, 50% need at least half a level of upgrades to max their level out.

On top of it all, there was zero middle ground. You're driving a B class car with 250hp on 1200kg's, or a 400hp A class car on 1100kg's.
If you want to race with a 650 point A class car that has 330hp on 1250kgs? You "can", but you really can't.
 
14,025
United States
Los Angeles, CA
lImaRobotl
Am I the only one that thought the previous class system was terrible?

There was no way to even use over half the cars in the game for leaderboards (meaning way more than now)
The boards were dominated by the lesser 1% that know how to make wild builds, car building and tuning was far more relevant than driver skill...
I very much preferred the system of old. I was pretty much able to make the top 1% in pretty much any car I would tune, that I liked. The issue that this was trying to fix was to eliminate leaderboard cars from hoarding the tracks, but that doesn't really change anything as there will always be a car thats faster than the others. This new system has all but killed rivals for me as I either have to hope that my friends are willing to try the exact division and layout that I want, or just hope someone random on the leaderboard will challenge my time, which never seems to happen.

As for tuning>skill, I don't find that to be true for anything but the first couple of hundred, up to a thousand players. To be honest, not really even than, either as it would take equal part skill and tuning. I can make a pretty crappy base tune and still do pretty darn well in that regard. If anything, I think car choice before skill, and tuning after skill.

And almost every car ended up tuned wildly because mathematically, 50% need at least half a level of upgrades to max their level out.
That was my favorite thing, though. Building a very low level car to compete, and be fast, in classes like A and S. Sometimes it worked, and sometimes it went horribly, horribly wrong, but still fun lol.

On top of it all, there was zero middle ground. You're driving a B class car with 250hp on 1200kg's, or a 400hp A class car on 1100kg's.
If you want to race with a 650 point A class car that has 330hp on 1250kgs? You "can", but you really can't.
Still the same now. There's some cars that I want to keep in C class but the homologation is B525. There's cars that I'd like to modify, but apparently stock is the only homologation for it. There is still no middle ground. It's just that lack of middle ground is split up between dozens of sub-classes now.
 

RikkiGT-R

GT: IamValhalla
Premium
2,512
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Rikki_GTR
IamValhalla
I'm with @ImaRobot on this. There are loads of cars now that simply cannot be modified at all as they already come homologated as stock, which renders them pointless to me. One of the main things I do with every car is add a race brake kit, so I can change the strength and the front/rear bias to my liking. When I can't even so much as do this, I am reluctant to even bother with the car.

I do like that the leaderboards are a lot stricter, but it would be nice if there was a filter or something for homologated cars <versus> class. In the current guise the leaderboards are watered down far too much and, much as it's nice to be in the top 10 a lot of the time, it means nothing when there is 20 entries (compared to tens of thousands in previous titles).
 
1,965
United States
TX
whitemanLS1
This new system has all but killed rivals for me as I either have to hope that my friends are willing to try the exact division and layout that I want.

Maybe we could start a thread and throw out a division and track ribbon to run for a week. I don’t have time get on and run multiplayer but could always run some rivals most nights.
 

RikkiGT-R

GT: IamValhalla
Premium
2,512
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Rikki_GTR
IamValhalla
Maybe we could start a thread and throw out a division and track ribbon to run for a week. I don’t have time get on and run multiplayer but could always run some rivals most nights.

I think we should do this, great idea. Do you wanna start the thread since this is your idea? Or will I start it since I'm the one moaning about Rivals mode in the first place? I'll start it if you'll permit me...
 
1,965
United States
TX
whitemanLS1
I think we should do this, great idea. Do you wanna start the thread since this is your idea? Or will I start it since I'm the one moaning about Rivals mode in the first place? I'll start it if you'll permit me...

You can start it by all means! Look forward to seeing the first selections!
 
6,318
United States
West Virginia
HBR-Roadhog
HBR Roadhog
I very much preferred the system of old. I was pretty much able to make the top 1% in pretty much any car I would tune, that I liked. The issue that this was trying to fix was to eliminate leaderboard cars from hoarding the tracks, but that doesn't really change anything as there will always be a car thats faster than the others.
Actually it did change things quite a lot. Sure there will always be one or two cars that are a bit faster than others in any given group but now there are many more groups so there are many more cars and where it really works well is that it stops some cars from dominating multiple classes. Look at some of the older Forza titles and there was always at least one car that would be all over the boards in multiple classes. The VW Golf, dominated the lower classes in FM3, The Chevy Spark did the same in FM4 as well as the 97 Honda, The Renault Turbo dominated in FM2.

The new system allows for cars to be at the top of the board that could never have gotten there in previous titles like the old grand prix cars, the open wheel legend cars and several other such examples so IMO it is a huge step forward in that aspect.

This new system has all but killed rivals for me as I either have to hope that my friends are willing to try the exact division and layout that I want, or just hope someone random on the leaderboard will challenge my time, which never seems to happen.
Yes there are a lot more groups now so less likely to see as much competition in some of them but that doesn't mean it won't be there, The game hasn't been out that long yet.

I do wish the leaderboards were easier to get to, and I do miss having the ability to race ghosts and/or see replays having to go into freeplay to see the leaderboards makes it a bit harder to see what times others have and to know where you want to run to compete with your friends. I liked the old open rivals system from FM6 and would like to see that used for the new divisions breakdown. But if I had to choose between the two I would take what we have now over going backwards to the E-R classes.

The bottom line is that in previous versions of FM we had maybe 12-20 cars that could hit the top spots on the leaderboards and now we have closer to 100 of them that can do so.
 
14,025
United States
Los Angeles, CA
lImaRobotl
Actually it did change things quite a lot. Sure there will always be one or two cars that are a bit faster than others in any given group but now there are many more groups so there are many more cars and where it really works well is that it stops some cars from dominating multiple classes. Look at some of the older Forza titles and there was always at least one car that would be all over the boards in multiple classes. The VW Golf, dominated the lower classes in FM3, The Chevy Spark did the same in FM4 as well as the 97 Honda, The Renault Turbo dominated in FM2.

The new system allows for cars to be at the top of the board that could never have gotten there in previous titles like the old grand prix cars, the open wheel legend cars and several other such examples so IMO it is a huge step forward in that aspect.
That's the thing though, it's not really stopping anything that it set out to do, it just vastly watered down the Leaderboards. People flocked to the leaderboard cars when the smaller class system was in place, now with less selection, the same things are happening. With only a handful of cars per division, people tend to flock to those faster ones much more quickly. The only reason it seems like its working right now is because the lack of participants in general.

If anything, for race cars like that, I think they should have been in specific classes from the get go, even with the old class system as it wouldn't really be fair to have them in a mixed group considering their specifications. That would have made sense like that, while keeping the original class system.

Yes there are a lot more groups now so less likely to see as much competition in some of them but that doesn't mean it won't be there, The game hasn't been out that long yet.
To be honest, Rivals in general had a lack of participants, but at least before there was less sub-classes and was much easier to come across an active board, compared to now. I don't think this is something time will heal, at all.

I do wish the leaderboards were easier to get to, and I do miss having the ability to race ghosts and/or see replays having to go into freeplay to see the leaderboards makes it a bit harder to see what times others have and to know where you want to run to compete with your friends. I liked the old open rivals system from FM6 and would like to see that used for the new divisions breakdown. But if I had to choose between the two I would take what we have now over going backwards to the E-R classes.
That's the other issue with this system. With how its split up with the vast amounts of divisions, the whole rivals section is just so sad in comparison to before. There is no way they're going to put in every sub division, so that again is something that is killing rivals for me. There is barely just a handful of different set-ups selected there, making it a shell of its former self. As for leaderboard access in general, that's another thing that's more difficult than it should be.


The bottom line is that in previous versions of FM we had maybe 12-20 cars that could hit the top spots on the leaderboards and now we have closer to 100 of them that can do so.
I'm not sure how that's supposed to sound better considering there's what, 60+ divisions? That still means that a select few cars are still going to be completely dominating the leaderboards per division.
 
6,318
United States
West Virginia
HBR-Roadhog
HBR Roadhog
I'm not sure how that's supposed to sound better considering there's what, 60+ divisions? That still means that a select few cars are still going to be completely dominating the leaderboards per division.
I was guess at the 100+ haven't counted but there are clearly many divisions where there will be more than one car at the top of some of the boards and there are way way more cars now that can compete than ever before.

Take the Old Lemans for example. In previous Forza titles you had to build a car with almost no grip and insane HP to even compete in any class. There would always be something like the old TBird or Mustang or Belair with 800+hp and no grip at all ruling the LBs and race cars did not even stand a chance at posting in any class other than X because you could use something like the Ultima or Venom or Saleen and completely destroy all of them.
Now the Ultima is in one class, the Saleen in another and the Venom in yet another where the race cars are spread out among several classes meaning it you want to race a GT3 car or a GT car or a P2 car you race against cars like those and not against some hyper car with 1000+hp that goes 50-100mpfh faster.

Also no more crappy little city cars with race tires competing with muscle cars on stock tires. 1000 % better than before in terms of competition IMO. It is just new and will take time for people to settle into plus of course some divisions will not get as much usage especially on some tracks. On older Forza titles I used to tune and drive every class on every track but now there are so many it would take a very long time to do that so may or may not ever get around to it but on the tracks I like the best I will eventually drive a bit of everything out there.
 
14,025
United States
Los Angeles, CA
lImaRobotl
I was guess at the 100+ haven't counted but there are clearly many divisions where there will be more than one car at the top of some of the boards and there are way way more cars now that can compete than ever before.
Ah yeah, I knew what you meant. Mine was just speaking generally as well. People still seem to flock to one car for the few boards that I've been to, although I've managed to sneak myself in with a car not generally used. I still don't believe there is way more cars that can compete now, as now the classes are smaller than ever. With so little to choose from, it makes it easier for people to just use what the fastest people are using. I myself break away from that mold, but I just wish there was more that would too.

Take the Old Lemans for example. In previous Forza titles you had to build a car with almost no grip and insane HP to even compete in any class. There would always be something like the old TBird or Mustang or Belair with 800+hp and no grip at all ruling the LBs and race cars did not even stand a chance at posting in any class other than X because you could use something like the Ultima or Venom or Saleen and completely destroy all of them.
Now the Ultima is in one class, the Saleen in another and the Venom in yet another where the race cars are spread out among several classes meaning it you want to race a GT3 car or a GT car or a P2 car you race against cars like those and not against some hyper car with 1000+hp that goes 50-100mpfh faster.
I very much agree with your point, that the non-homolagation sucked for cars with specific set-ups, like differing race cars. However, they could have very much done a work around make sub-divisions after E-S and make those for specific classes, like a specific Nascar-class, for example. I feel the breakdown would have worked better for things of that nature. The leaderboards definitely needed balance, I just don't like how they chose to do it. The classes I usually run in are completely watered down, and it's sad because I always enjoyed making an A-class RX7.. Now I can't even modify it if I want to use it.

Also no more crappy little city cars with race tires competing with muscle cars on stock tires. 1000 % better than before in terms of competition IMO. It is just new and will take time for people to settle into plus of course some divisions will not get as much usage especially on some tracks. On older Forza titles I used to tune and drive every class on every track but now there are so many it would take a very long time to do that so may or may not ever get around to it but on the tracks I like the best I will eventually drive a bit of everything out there.
I actually like the specifications within the homologation, but I just wish the classes where more widespread, with more vehicles. I also wish there was an option to be able to push a car into a higher homologation level, in some way or another. On older Forza's Rivals was much more inviting, and it had all classes available but now they can't do that unless they want hundreds of different selections in the Rivals section(Closer to 1000 different set-ups, if I remember correctly), which I doubt they'd ever do, or else they would have done it already. That's why I feel they have all but killed off one of my most used sections of the game.

I'm hoping that they some how re-invent that section of the game, but as it sits, it's really pushing me away from even want to do it. I very much like @RikkiGT-R's idea though, for a Rivals thread. That's likely the only thing that will get things moving along.
 

RikkiGT-R

GT: IamValhalla
Premium
2,512
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Rikki_GTR
IamValhalla
@BoneSawTX @ImaRobot - just so we're clear it'll be a case of me choosing a division as in, Rise of the Supercar/Exotic GT/Hot Hatch Genesis etc?

Only asking so we're not confusing division with class (E to X) and I don't start the thread on the wrong foot...
 
6,318
United States
West Virginia
HBR-Roadhog
HBR Roadhog
This new system has all but killed rivals for me as I either have to hope that my friends are willing to try the exact division and layout that I want, or just hope someone random on the leaderboard will challenge my time, which never seems to happen.
Out of curiosity could you give me an idea as to what divisions and track layouts you like to run the most. Perhaps I will pop in and see if I can post a time or two.